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emerald ash borer

Started by sprucebunny, July 23, 2004, 09:03:04 AM

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estiers

There is currently no confirmed oubreak of EAB in the UP.
Erin Stiers
State Plant Health Director - Minnesota
United States Department of Agriculture

Furby

Yep, I admit I was off on that one as I can't back it up.
Looked online last night and none of the sites are showing it.
Today I tried to get ahold of one of the fellows I talked to that told me they had found them up there, but he is out of town right now.

AtLast

In accordence with a complience agreement you must saw 1/2" below zylum cambium.  logs can be moved INTO quaran. area but not out. The chip size is SUPPOSED to be 1" or less but as we can see the grindings DO NOT meet this yet were still allowed to be shipped. Though LCLTL's involvement we are able to show a positive alternative in the handling of the logs. My yard is part of a regular tour that the MRCD puts together the MDNR, MDA MSU Extension along with a wide varity of people have been on this tour including Steve Bratkovich and Patricia Lockwood. I have showen them that by utilizing this material and the small abount of watse generated would potentially save the State millions of dollers. Because basically top flitches are the " waste" and can be run through our Dynamic cone head chipper which DOES produce 1" or smaller chips. These chips can than be used for foot paths through the trials in parks within the QZ.  Also with the many state parks and state vehicles that this wood could be used for would ALSO save the State tons of money. LCLTL has kept over 500,000 b/f of material out of landfill or from being burnt and saved municipalities we contract with big savings on not only their disposal cost but material costs as well. From picnic table replacement boards, park benches, bleechers, trailer ecking, banger boards on trucks fence posts and railings and have cut wood to spec for a play structure. LCLTL have been involved in this right from the get go and  have always preached utilization not only for the Ash but all urban material. I commend Urban Logger on the FANTASTIC job his group and others like him are doing. Setting an example that happily is picking up steam. Our company jackts proudly display the Forestry Fourm logo on the sleeve and Im asked about  this forum.  Im pretty that MSU got to this site via the logo  8)...As far as the UP goes...."confirmed"?....not sure BUT I DO know for a fact that it HAS crossed the bridge.

Jeff

QuoteIm pretty that MSU got to this site via the logo 

Nice thought but I have been involved with some of the Michigan State Extension Foresters for many years.  Michigan State extention Foresters have been answering "Ask the Forester" questions for our Timber Buyers Network website and the MFRA site since around the turn of the century. :)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

AtLast

I ment MSU_ Keith.....no matter....glad we are all trying to do something positive. 8)

pasbuild

Atlast
You write (As far as the UP goes...."confirmed"?....not sure BUT I DO know for a fact that it HAS crossed the bridge.)
Tell me more, what do you know that none of the loggers up here know :(
Do you know if the state is monitoring the UP and if so were?
If it can't be nailed or glued then screw it

Jeff

Good question. A statement like that deserves to be backed up with facts and statistics.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

AtLast

In order for LCLTL to ship lumber ( Ash) outside we have to have it inspected by the USFS who than tags and bands the material. Upon a visit from the USFS inspector he told of the tree service locally here that shipped 4 truck loads of firewood to his property in the UP. They , the USFS, tracked and fined this company for this breach of policy. The way it was told to me was that indeed these truck loads of firewood made its way accross the bridge to the UP. As I stated. NOT CONFIRMED but by hearing this first hand from the USFS that indeed this material was in the UP was scary enuf. I dont know what it is that youre looking for other than what I stated. as far as facts and " statistics" go..as I stated. NOT CONFIRMED but indeed a fact, all I was trying to do was pass information. I dont understand why I am feeling persicuted for simply telling what I was told by the USFS that tracked this material to the UP I was not saying an " outbreak" was in tow NOR did I say it was epidemic like in the lower part of Mich. all I was doing was passing information.

pasbuild

Thanks for the info Atlast, sorry if I made it sound like I was grillin ya, just after any info on EAB in the UP.
Do you know if the camp in question was in the Newberry area?
I heard a rumor that sounds like it may have STARTED from the incident that your referring to, Did the USFS inspector go into detail? If so could you share that with us.
Again Thanks for the info.
If it can't be nailed or glued then screw it

Furby

My info or lack of, ::) was within the Newberry area and was firewood, but I don't yet know about the rest of the story.

Jeff

I'm not persecuting, I am playing the devils advocate. Asking for substantiation of "facts" is prudent on an issue like this. You cant Yell fire because you see smoke coming out the slightly opened teenager's bedroom window. This is very important to those guys in the U.P. and "rumors" can cause bad stuff to happen to woodlots and landowners.

"HEY!  You gotta cut this right now! The EAB has crossed the bridge and your timber will soon be dead!!  It will be worthless if you DON'T SELL IT NOW!"

Don't think that kind of crap don't happen. What you have reported here on the EAB in the U.P at this point is "hear-say". Not fact until it is substantiated with fact.  Now, saying that, I think its a fair bet that firewood has crossed the bridge, at least I would be willing to bet on it. Problem is, thats just one guy's opinion and everybody has got one.

  I can absolutely understand pasbuild's interest and concern. Lots and lots of people are reading this forum and looking here for information on this very thing.  I think any information that comes forth on such an important issue should be timely and absolutely accurate.

Certainly AtLast, in the position you are in you need, no, make that have to be ready to answer this type of question and not feel "persecuted". You are out there on the forefront of an extreme crisis for our forests. Information from you needs to be absolutely un-reproachable.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Ron Scott

~Ron

Jeff

Now there is a fact! Thanks Ron.
There ya go Chris, now you have a source to point to that dead and dieing ash was moved to the U.P., but it should be read in its entirety.  The most relevant portion to this particular discussion:

One case Wyant noted in particular was that of OGW Tree Service and Trucking of Southfield. The company began working with a community in Oakland County in 2003 removing dead and dying ash trees from that area. Despite numerous trips to the state's no-cost disposal sites and awareness of the EAB quarantine, the company illegally moved ash wood out of the quarantined area to properties in Gratiot and Luce counties.

"The Department's investigation showed that the company is directly responsible for the introduction and infestation of Emerald Ash Borer into Gratiot County. Thankfully, Luce County was spared from a similar fate as we have found no evidence of EAB infestation there to date," Wyant said. "Sadly, Michigan citizens and ash resources end up paying the ultimate price for this type of disregard for the law."



Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Ed

It's sad that the fines & punishment were so light.
It ammounts to no more than a slap on the hand.

estiers

Unfortunatley Ed the State of Michigan has a highly outdated Plant Pest Act, and so has to prosecute under those ancient laws.  Hopefully they will update the thing and make the penalties much stiffer.
Erin Stiers
State Plant Health Director - Minnesota
United States Department of Agriculture

tnlogger

Quote from: Jeff B on February 27, 2005, 08:34:24 AM
I'm not persecuting, I am playing the devils advocate. Asking for substantiation of "facts" is prudent on an issue like this. You cant Yell fire because you see smoke coming out the slightly opened teenager's bedroom window. This is very important to those guys in the U.P. and "rumors" can cause bad stuff to happen to woodlots and landowners.

"HEY!  You gotta cut this right now! The EAB has crossed the bridge and your timber will soon be dead!!  It will be worthless if you DON'T SELL IT NOW!"

Don't think that kind of crap don't happen. What you have reported here on the EAB in the U.P at this point is "hear-say". Not fact until it is substantiated with fact.  Now, saying that, I think its a fair bet that firewood has crossed the bridge, at least I would be willing to bet on it. Problem is, thats just one guy's opinion and everybody has got one.

  I can absolutely understand pasbuild's interest and concern. Lots and lots of people are reading this forum and looking here for information on this very thing.  I think any information that comes forth on such an important issue should be timely and absolutely accurate.

Certainly AtLast, in the position you are in you need, no, make that have to be ready to answer this type of question and not feel "persecuted". You are out there on the forefront of an extreme crisis for our forests. Information from you needs to be absolutely un-reproachable.
your right in that jeff  when the pine beatle thing stated down here a few yrs back quite a few unscrupulous loggers went around looking at pine trees when they saw some brown  neddles on some trees they would tell the landowner they better cut them fast or they would have to burn them
gene

AtLast

So I guess the concensious is lets let the other shoe drop before we do something about letting it hit the ground???...My statement brought awareness...and it made those concerned take a " better look" at whats goin on. facts..statistics...wont hold a candle when push comes to shove and all is to late to act...this is exactally why it, the EAB has gotten to this degree.... and I HOPE Ron posted his post in order to substantiate my...." hear say"...but the bottom line remains the same...In this case all to often being " to late" has taken its toll...so...ask yourself...should facts and stats completely hold the bar on action...OR...should " claims made by those that are.....reliable....fortuitive...concerned...just plain scared...sit back and not take a position that allows others to make their own decisions...information via the MDA and  MDNR  is readly available on the web...yet it poses not euf of what ALL....ALL need to look at...IF youre a wood lot owner....and IF a buyer poses this claim and IF the woodlot buyer is quick to " jump " at abuck..than I say to them....you should have done your research.....at the same time I say....by being one that IS aware and able to pass information...fact or not...it allows those concerned to deduct a decision and make their own choices accordingly...Thank you Ron Scott for posting...and thank you for substantiating my....rumor....but again I say...the end result remains the same.

Jeff



Thankfully, Luce County was spared from a similar fate as we have found no evidence of EAB infestation there to date," Wyant said. "Sadly, Michigan citizens and ash resources end up paying the ultimate price for this type of disregard for the law."


You implied that the EAB is in the u.p. 

Quote...As far as the UP goes...."confirmed"?....not sure BUT I DO know for a fact that it HAS crossed the bridge.

You should be accurate and complete in your information. Especially in the position you are in. 

The facts are that dead and dieing ash was taken to the u.p. by a company that was also responsible for the introduction and infestation of Emerald Ash Borer into Gratiot County.  It does not state that there is any EAB in the U.P.

My Personal opinion: I think it is probably inevitable that EAB will ultimatly surface in the U.P.  However, until there is no prove that it has, and there is not at this point, one should not be insinuating it has, especially one granted with supplying the public with information.




Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

SwampDonkey

tn_Logger and Jeff,

The same thing happened with the spruce budworm years here in the 70's and 80's. Some loggers where scaring landowners with the potential scorge of the spruce budworm. Although, I will say that in alot of the cases they were true threats to the trees. Even big industry was in a panic in those years. I can remember them spraying in the 70's and under the spruce trees I would find dozens of grackle birds killed by the poisen. I can remember this when I was only 5 or 6 years old. I think it's been about 12 years since they sprayed for budworm here.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Jeff

I think every effort should be made to get out the information in a prompt and responsible manner and I am absoluety sure it has. When ever there is an outbreak in a new place, it has been reported. The quarantine areas are expanded as the threats are identified.  I refuse to believe that someone may be hiding or delaying information that EAB is or is not in a certain area.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

estiers

Let's try to clear up the UP situation.  Yes, the company that is responsible for spreading EAB to Gratiot county had trucked up ash to Luce county.  The wood was removed and MDA did a survey of the area to determine if EAB was in that area.  During thier search they found very little ash in the area, and those that they did find showed no EAB symptoms.
Erin Stiers
State Plant Health Director - Minnesota
United States Department of Agriculture

Jeff

Thanks estiers! 

estiers and I had a great talk this morning. Very cool to have her as a member.

I have offered the forum up, (although it has always been available), as a place to post and to get, the most recent and up-to-date information possible on the EAB.  I will start another thread, that will be a "sticky"  It will always be at the top of the Education board where it can easily be found.  The first post will contain a PDF map of the current Tri-State Quarantine map from the USDA.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

pasbuild

This thread  is not to bash anybody or any organization  it is to obtain any and all info available on the EAB, Atlast you gave me what I was looking for, ANY INFO. We all no that the wheels of government don't turn very fast and I for one don't want to wait for the official report if I can get it before hand.
Thanks to Ron Scott, estiers, Jeff and Atlast I can go back to those that are embellishing the Luce county rumor and correct  the miss information.
As Jeff stated this false rumor in the wrong hands can be as devastating as the EAB itself.
If it can't be nailed or glued then screw it

AtLast

It is because of " my position" that I am quite comfortable in "stating" that inded it has.." Crossed the bridge"...this was my statement...NOT  that it was flurishing about...NOT that it was spreding...NOT that there was and " outbreak"....this by any standard was NOT an " insinuation"...it was information recieved from my contact with the USFS/MDA and as substantiated by Ron Scott and  the Luce County incident that this, my statement, was not irresponsable not rumor nor an insinuation...I stand by all my statements and can only hope that, once agin, those concerned, be it a woodlot or landowner be privy to and be able to do their research and make an informed decision...(Now there is a fact! Thanks Ron.
There ya go Chris, now you have a source to point to that dead and dieing ash was moved to the U.P., but it should be read in its entirety.  The most relevant portion to this particular discussion)....Jeff...in its entirety once again I say....the bottom line remains the same.....

Jeff

I would read post 70 again

The official word is:
During their search they found very little ash in the area, and those that they did find showed no EAB symptoms.

"Substantiated by Ron Scott"   :D  Ron didnt substantiate anything, he pointed us to a webpage that stated that  nothing was found in Luce county to indicate EAB activity.

I did want to add, this, as I believe it has been construed that I think a rumor is "an untruth", not so, I always try to pick my words to the best of my ability, and feel that rumor was an appropriatte word in this instance.

Definitions of rumor on the Web:

An unverified belief that is in general circulation. (11)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

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