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emerald ash borer

Started by sprucebunny, July 23, 2004, 09:03:04 AM

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estiers

The Emerald Ash Borer quarantine was extended Monday by the Michigan Department of Agriculture to include 7 new counties and outliers in several areas.  The seven new counties are: Hillsdale, Branch, Calhoun, Eaton, Clinton, Gratiot, and Saginaw.  For more info visit the MDA website at www.michigan.gov/mda and click on the emerald ash borer link.
Erin Stiers
State Plant Health Director - Minnesota
United States Department of Agriculture

MSU_Keith

I attended the 'EAB Info & Ash Wood Utilization Fair' this weekend at Washtenaw County Fairgrounds - interesting show.  The good news was that everyone seemed very interested in finding a use for the ash that has or will need to come down.  Everyone seemed very impressed by the Baker mill demonstrated by Last Chance Logs to Lumber.  Bad news is that the general consensus is that the bug is going to be pretty hard to stop. :'(

The most up to date map I saw showed outbreaks outside of the quaratine area all over the lower penninsula, in NE Indiana and in Ontario.

http://www.michigan.gov/mda/0,1607,7-125-2961_6860_30046---,00.html

The other interesting comments where the limited amount of interest in the State bidding process by tree services.  From what I heard there are 28 services signed up for 20 counties in the quarintine area.  Everyone wants to stop the bug, lots of people lined up to use the wood, but limited interest in getting it down and hauling it at the state rates.  Maybe they should offer a tax break for woodlot owners w/ash and tree services.

Corley5

I saw on the local news this morning that the EAB has been found on Old Mission Penisula in Grand Traverse Co and it appears that it has been there for several years.  It's now been found in parts of most of Northern Michigan.  It keeps getting worse :( >:( :'( ::) >:( >:( :(
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Paschale

Does anyone know the deal with harvesting/processing standing ash?  It seems to me that one way to beat the DanG bug is to cut down any and all viable ash trees, and turn it into lumber, instead of just letting it be turned into mulch, as I've heard is happening with much of it.  I suppose right now there's a flood of ash on the market, but I'd rather see a flood now, since undoubtedly, we're going to be experiencing a long term dearth in the near future!   :-[
Y'all can pronounce it "puh-SKOLLY"

MSU_Keith

From what I understand this is exactly the way they are handling the outbreaks away from the quarintine counties - removal of healthy ash around the outbreak.  I think the concern is that if the harvesting and movement of timber is not done properly then it will actually promote the spread of the bug.

The official agencies have been very good in getting the news out about the bug to the general public and alot of thought is going into promoting the use of the wood besides landfill.  But there does not seem to be concerted effort to let the small business forest industry know how to handle infected or soon to be infected trees.  It would seem that forums like this and the small to mid level forest industry could really help in preventing the spread. 

For instance, I have asked several officials regarding the rules for using ash wood from infected areas outside of these areas and can't seam to get a straight answer.  Training is required but I cannot determine through what channels.  Official inspection is required but I have not been able to find a standard set of rules.   :'( :'( :'(

An official 'rulebook'  on processing (particularly bark) would be very helpful.  For instance - is it best to fell, cant the log on site, grind the bark and leave at the location?  Is it ok to move timber (with bark on) within the quaritine area even though you may risk infected trees that haven't seen the critter yet??  How far into the tree needs to be removed to have a 'safe' cant???

Ron Scott

I've been asking the same questions. Was told today that the wood needs to go directly to the mill within the quarintine area. Lacatiion that it came from and location that its going to must be recorded and it can't stop in route.

At the mill, the outside 3 inches then needs to be slabed off and chipped and burned. The center cant outside the bore area is the usable wood.

Its a good idea to attend one of the Michigan Dept. of Ag. sessions in your area of infection though for best current information.

We now have it in the Marilla area of Manistee County also.
~Ron

Sawing Logz

I have to say there is alot of talk and miss informed information about EAB going to both extremes. The logz should be kept in the county there removed(felled in) in my opinion, and the tree services in those counties should be notified that an alternative for the waste ash has been around since portable sawmill came to be. Acording to the classes I have attended and the Michigan forrester I have been in constant contact with,  1" bellow the bark was the required removal for meeting the states requirements. The rest of the wood with no bark inclusion was aceptable.

Jeff
City Forrest Treecycler

Corley5

In my opinion moving ash around in counties that are entirely infected and quarantined is OK but in a county such Cheboygan that so far has only one area of infestation I sure as H*** don't want anyone moving any logs or firewood from there to anywhere else in this county or any other county in the area >:( >:(.  That's how this bug spreads.  In areas up here in Northern Mi I'd like to see all ash processed at the infected location rather than risk spreading this pest through the transportation of logs etc.  Even chipping to 1" pieces or less before transport worries me.  Chips blow out of chip vans all the time ::).  It seems to me they should be processed to smaller than an inch to make sure the bugs are indeed killed.  Moving cants that have been sawn to specs would be fine but anything to do with the outer portions of the tree needs to handled in a very serious manner.  Most of the outbreaks up here are the result of firewood or nursery stock being brought in from downstate >:( so lets not spread it around locally.  I've got some pretty nice ash trees here that I'm not ready to cut and some good ash regeneration that I'd rather not have to destroy but my optimism about this situation is running out >:( :( :'( >:( >:( >:( >:(  I've got this bug both east and west of me now and I'm beginning to feel time is getting short and not enough has or is being done.  I remember when elm was a major part of our forest now even most of the stumps have rotted away and we've got one remaining living elm in 100 acres of woods.  I'm beginning to believe that the ash is going in that same direction :'( :(.   
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Sawing Logz

Corley, I do agree with your thoughts on movment, but those little 1' chips have been seen with the bug still on them. So buy not moving them and sawing them at that spot there could be less chance of them chips fliing out of them big dumps and into other none infessed areas. Plus for the guys wanting to due business in ther own backyard(county) ther is a winfall.

Jeff
City Forrest Treecycler

Furby

What is involved in getting started doing this?
I'm guessing it's connected to the state right?

Shotgun

Here's a lot of EAB info. It's also reachable from the above mentioned URL.

http://www.michigan.gov/mda/0,1607,7-125-1568_2390_18298---,00.html

More direct EAB program info is here.
Joined The Forestry Forum 5 days before 9/11.

Corley5

Exactly Jeff.  If the outside 3" of the tree or any other part where the bug lives is going to be transported it needs to be ground into dust!  I'm all for utilizing as much of these possibly infected and postively infected trees as we can but lets not jeopardize our uninfected areas by moving anything through them that could in anyway cause an infection.  I firmly believe that if the MDNR, MDA and all the gov't agencies both state and federal involved in this would have dealt with this issue more aggressively when it first came to light we wouldn't be in this situation to the point we are now.  There was an unforgivable lack of action in the early stages of this situation especially when it came to public eduaction about the EAB.  One example in particular was the photo copied warnings on state forest campground info boards up here warning people about importing ash firewood from infected areas.  By the time the people read this they already had the wood here ::) ::) >:(.  Very little was done to educate and inform the public in the areas first affected until it was largely too late and it had been unknowingly spread to other parts of the country.  The general public can't be blamed for the failures of our public service agencies to keep them adequately educated and informed on matters such as this.  It hasn't been until recently that there has been fairly good info out there aimed at the general public.  O.K. I'll get my soapbox now but this whole thing really p*$$#$ me off >:( >:( >:( >:(
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Furby


MSU_Keith

Not sure that there is still a chance to prevent the spread, but the current info on the site refered to by Shotgun is lacking alot of detail.  The contractor instructions on this link especially:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/Roles_of_Contractor_114449_7.pdf

- It says to chip debris but no size is listed.
- Does MCC Rep have to present?
- All wood to go to closest marshalling yard - even if cut into cant on site?

Training and restrictions are definitely necessary but the current system seems so restrictive yet without detailed instructions.  Incentives for tree contractors need to built into the system to make this thing work - not extra costs at lower income.  It's not hard to figure out why there is a lack of interest in the current system.

How about a 'bounty' on ash trees in a buffer zone around the quarantine area?  Get'em down to stop the spread.  Maybe a grass roots lobby of state government is in order.

Furby

It's just  moving too fast now, from my understanding. If info had been a little more forthcoming at the start, most of this probly would have been very effective.
I'm thinking now, in order to stop this, not only would we have to have check points 24/7 on all roads leading out of a quarantined area, but we must move the boundries out and start removal of ash trees a couple of states away and work towards the quarantined areas.
Not the best idea, but things are spreading too fast to do things the way they are now.

Jeff

Furby, I really think that the lack of forth coming information is irrelevant.  Its like tracking a deer. You are looking at things that occurred in the past, but only gaining the knowledge as you find each track or hair.  Truth is, the deer passed through the day before, and there is nothing you can do to stop that.

Those infested areas that are cropping up now were probably infested before we knew there was a problem ANY where. :-\

Let us hope the things we are doing now will hopefully slow the spread so perhaps science can catch up.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Corley5

I hope someone's working on a new variety of ash that doesn't appeal to the EAB's taste ::) ;) that can be used in the future to restore ash to our forests.
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

estiers

Thank you Jeff for your deer analogy. It is a very good illustration of what has happened.

For those of you who haven't noticed, the majority of my posts occur in this particular folder of the Forum.  That is because I work as  PPQ Officer for the USDA's side of the Emerald Ash Borer project.  Many of the questions that have been raised in the last several posts have been relevant questions which deserve answers.  Unfortunately it would take me ages to answer each one here, especially since a lot of the answer depends on where the wood is, where it is going, and how it will be processed wither before or after shipment.  As it is my job to regulate the Emerald Ash Borer and any product that may potentially spread it, I feel a duty to answer these questions.  Feel free to ask specific questions here, or through personal messages to me through this forum.  Believe me, I understand your frustration when it comes to these questions, and I will do everything I can to attempt to clear the muddy waters, at least a little.
Erin Stiers
State Plant Health Director - Minnesota
United States Department of Agriculture

Furby

While you are right to a point Jeff, I feel it's the still the same now. 95% of the people I have talked to outside of forum members and the like, know nothing about the EAB. The few that know anything, only know the 5 second blurb that they saw on the news, and really still know nothing. I don't feel there is yet enough info being put out there.

I do agree with the the new outbreaks being infested a long time back, but that's the point. Why do we allow movement of Ash in areas NOT under quarantine? We don't know where all the infested areas are and are possibly spreading it. We need to step back for a bigger picture, then move back in for the kill.

Shotgun

Furby,

I think you might be suffering from some unreasonable expectations concerning dealing with a pest of this nature. There are many limitations  that confront the program you may not be aware of.  I suggest that you use the EAB hotline (866-325-0023) or the e-mail contact point at http://www.michigan.gov/mda/0,1607,7-125-1568_2390_18298-87549--,00.html.  Ask your questions there.  Also there's lots of info on the Michigan and U.S. Departments of Agriculture, and the MSU sites. Since you have questions, I suggest that you contact the proper agencies and get them answered.

Norm
Joined The Forestry Forum 5 days before 9/11.

Jeff

Furby, this is a good place to input some ideas if you think you have some that could be effective.

This is a tough row ta hoe for everyone. Furby, yer giving mankind way to much credit though, the job of controling nature is one thing that I still think the good Lord keeps out of our hands and for good reason.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Paschale

Quote from: Corley5 on February 07, 2005, 03:30:33 PM
I hope someone's working on a new variety of ash that doesn't appeal to the EAB's taste ::) ;) that can be used in the future to restore ash to our forests.

What I've heard, is that roughly 1% of ash trees for some reason don't attract the pest, or somehow the trees are immune to it.  The hope is that future forests could be generated from this gene pool.  I believe I've heard the same thing regarding the beech trees that are dying in Canada and the U.P., that 1% of native trees are immune.  Has anyone else heard this, or is it just a rumor?
Y'all can pronounce it "puh-SKOLLY"

Furby

Quote from: Jeff B on February 07, 2005, 09:57:37 PM
This is a tough row ta hoe for everyone. Furby, yer giving mankind way to much credit though, the job of controling nature is one thing that I still think the good Lord keeps out of our hands and for good reason.

EXACTLY!
I have NO faith in mankind anymore, and I'm not talking about controling nature. I highly doubt "nature" brought this bug to the states. Maybe it did, but I doubt it. And I highly doubt that "nature" spread it to the UP, but maybe. As you said else where, the straights of mackinaw are a perfect barrier.
It is mankind that we should be controlling. We could at the very least slow things. As it is, there is no reason for a quarantine, at least not in it's present locations. We don't know where all the infested areas are, yet we allow transportation of Ash in and out of areas that may be infested and are not under quarantine.


Shotgun,
I mean no disrespect by this, as I truly value your opions, but we are talking about the possible loss of up to 1 BILLION ash trees in the state of Michigan alone. My having "unreasonable expectations" that the state and federal agencies could have and still should be doing more, sounds like a joke to you? I understand things are being done, I'm not saying they are not. I belive more could be done to educate the public as they ARE, THE major means for the spread of this thing! The couple of seconds air time on SOME news channels, the once in a while artical in the paper, the websites that are slowly popping up, are not doing it fast enough. The state published brocures with a small amount of info, and sent them to places for poeple to "find" IF those people even knew about the EAB problem. Couldn't they send one to each mailbox instead?
We live in an era of instant communication, yet we can't find a way to get the word out about a major problem?
The state of the state address would be one possibility to get the word out to the few people who will be watching, but there are other ways as well. Why are there not commercials running during all the popular shows?


What we are doing now is mostly cleaning up in the wake, and buying time hoping man can come up with a chemical to stop the bug, why? We could have, and still can stop being responsible for widespread distribution of this bug. It won't stop it, but it sure as heck won't spread as fast!
If this were a deadly human virus..............we'd all be dead!

estiers

The ash trees in China, which is where the bug came from, seem to have resistance to it, as they are only effected by the bug during stress of somekind (drought, etc.).  There are people looking at breeding new ash varieties with these trees, the problem is they are not very atractive and have none of the characteristics we like about our ash here, so it would take a very long time to achieve.
Erin Stiers
State Plant Health Director - Minnesota
United States Department of Agriculture

pasbuild

Who is saying that the EAB is in the Upper Peninsula, is it a state agency, is it the federal  government , if this is in fact true then I agree with Furby and not enough is being done to inform the people >:(
I have talked to loggers,foresters and log buyers from Newberry to Wakefield and nobody has heard anything about it.  DANG its not that hard to inform those in the forest products industry, provide informational handouts to all of the local saw shops, It doesn't  take that many fingers to count the companies that buy hardwood logs in the UP, make it mandatory to hand out an informational sheet with each load slip. I'm sure that these timber professionals would be more then happy to remove the standing ash while it still has a marketable value instead of waiting until all its good for is a big puff of smoke going up in the air. :(
I for one am keeping a close eye on this as I want to turn our ash into a usable  product when and if the time comes  however there ether is no info available or you get conflicting info for our area :-\ :-\
If it can't be nailed or glued then screw it

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