Thread for Firefighters

[FiremanEd]

I started to send Kirk Allen a private message and decided to put it here instead. For those of us who don't know, Kirk manufactures a fairly new and very inovative firefighting nozzle called a "Task....  oops. soory Kirk) it's called a "Vindicator", this nozzle is very simple in construction and maintance yet very technical in design. The Vindicator gives much higher gpm flowes from equal sized hoses than any other nozzle I've ever used. It's a cross between a smooth bore and a fog.

Anyway, to my point. My department purchased 20 some of these nozzles some time back. I've trained myself and my guys extensively with it for water and foam applications. As fate always goes I hadn't had an opportunity to use it on a "real" fire until this weekend. Every time we had a fire we were 2nd in or for what ever reason a traditional fog nozzle was what was used.

This past saturday we were 1st in  8) on a very  8) large 2 story 2 car detached garage which was rather heavily involved in fire. Lets say the concrete spalded and the ridge board was burnt out, you can imagine what happened to everything in between. Anyways, we pulled up and couldn't get the engine in place to hit it with the deck gun so my rookie pulled the Vindicator on 300' of 1 3/4" hose. Now I'll say that I've been doing this job for 13 years now and have fought a goodly amount of fire ( a lot of which was with George, Kirk). I have NEVER seen such a large  ;D and HOT  ;D  fire go out so FAST in my life from a handline.  I couldn't believe how quickly he knocked this fire down, we had it undercontrol before my driver got his 5" supply line hooked up and charged.

Excuse the length of my off subject post, I just wanted everyone who may benifit from knowing about Kirk's product to hear about it.

Kirk, that is one fine nozzle!!!!!  8) 8)   Thank you!!

Ed

[BW_Williams]

Good job Ed (and Kirk), stay safe, BWW.

[tnlogger]

Ed that is interesting I know we dont have them on our trucks but is sure sounds like something to bring up a the next meeting.
Have you got a link where i can get some specs on it?

pround member on the WCVFD Dist 8

[Tom]

What's so off topic about that.  That was an interesting post and high-lighted a member too.   You guys will have to quit being so secretive.  A good story like that brightens up the day.  I know that fire's are tough on the victims, but you guys have every right ot too your horn smiley_tom_tutnurhorn2 now and again. :D

[FiremanEd]

Ed that is interesting I know we dont have them on our trucks but is sure sounds like something to bring up a the next meeting.
Have you got a link where i can get some specs on it?

pround member on the WCVFD Dist 8

Can you hook TNLogger up w/ a ling Kirk?? 

We opted to put 1 Vindicator on each engine beside either 1 or 2 conventional fog nozzles TNLogger. They don't replace a fog nor do they replace a smoothbore but they sure do blur the lines between the two. To quote one of our better Captains, "it's not a magic nozzle, it's just a new, and very good, addition to your toolbox full of tools"

[chet]

http://www.1ststriketech.com/Features.htm

[tnlogger]

 Thanks ED  and Chet I'll pass this along to the chief.  8)

[MULE_MAN]

Good Info.


My Son in Law is a Firefighter, I'll pass this information to him,
I think he will impressed with this.  8)

[mudpupdave]

Fireman ED,
That sounds like a VERY usefull nozzle, we should swap stories on firefighting, The first department I was on made a nozzle (spear) for House Trailers....It was very usefull, now someone made it avalible for everyone...we were impressed. should have had a patent the idea but just knowing that someone may have been saved with it was fine for us..I will check out the sight.. thanks for both the information and the designer.....    dave

[theonlybull]

sounds like a good nozzle, and i'd be interested in trying one, but i doubt a trial one will show up in this area for quite some time  :-[

from what i read, it's between a smooth bore, and a fog or combo nozzle, but is it adjustable in it's pattern at all?  are you able to get a fog stream out of it, if needed for self protection?  If not, i don't see how anyone should be using it for interior attack, and leaving yourself without the protection of a fog stream????

what brand are your "other" nozzles, and how do these one's compare price wise?

[Engineer]

I honestly don't remember what the heck we use for nozzles on our trucks.   ???

I'll have to check this one out that Kirk makes.  Does it work at all with Class A or CAFS?  We generally don't use anything but foam on most all of our fires.

Jon Endres
8 yrs, Shaftsbury, VT VFD

[Kirk_Allen]

Thanks for the kind words Ed,  I appreciate it. 

Engineer, Yes it will work with Class A, Class B, CAFS and we even have units on some DOD rigs that are class B foam & Water & Dry Chem all combined.

Theonlybull:  Trying to explain how or why our product does what it does is next to impossible in this type of format but I will try to keep it breif and simple. 

It is a well recognized fact that radiant heat is not stopped by a fog pattern.  Many of homes have burned from the beleif that the water certain would stop the heat.  What a fog pattern does for you is offer LOTS of dropplets, or surface area to absorb heat. There are several factors to consider before ever going to a fog pattern in an interior attack.  Is there proper ventilation?  Is there a rescue in progress, am I flowing the required minimum flow rate?

One of the biggest problems with going to fog is what happens in that room. If you open up your stream to a fog pattern then you have applied half of your water to the high heat atmosphere and the other half to the low temp area, thus, you have reduced your APPLICATION RATE in half to the area that needs it the most and that is why we see such a massive steam conversion.  It is not because of the use of a fog but the reduction of applicatoin rate that causes the problem. EVERYONE agrees with this principal because its part of the law of physics. If I could draw it on a board it would make more sense but anyway, after showing folks that simple principle the Fog nozzle folks say, "Then point it all up into the ceiling area so you dont loose any application rate to the floor.  Sounds good but if you have ever done that in a non-ventilated room you will only do it once before you learn not to ever do it again.   

There is a place for a fog nozzle and we by no means support getting rid of them but if its protection your looking for then you MUST ensure that you have the 2 primary keys to suppression: 
1. Application Rate
2. Type Stream.

The Vindicator offers a  higher application rates than any other nozzle in the world and does so with less reaction, thus you gain mobiility.  It also offers aspriation which provides large dropplets that absorb LOTS of heat before they flash to steam. 

The Third element of suppression is one that two of our patents are based on and NO OTHER nozzle can do.  We are able to utilize combustion gases to help in the suppression effort.  This principal can be found in Section 1 of the NFPA Fire Protection Handbook.  Basically when you open the nozzle we are able to pull in spent combustion gases which then contact the water. That cools them and then they are thrown back into the fire matrix to absorb more heat AND displace oxygen.

In todays fire environment we are faced with hotter and more dangerous fires than ever before because of the fire load and the materials they are made from.  Those predominatly hydrocarbon based materials off gas toxic fumes that will ignite in a range of 800-1200 F.  Its those very gases that are killing firefighters yearly. 

We simply came up with a way to utilize those gases in the suppresion process. 

You can rest assured that if would could not do what we claim we would not still be in business.  We have independent test from all over the country proving our product outperforms any other nozzle.  From 1000's of VOL all over the country to Major city departments like FDNY and even the Department of Defense.

We offer ALL three key elements necsessary for rapid suppresion.
1. High Applicatoin Rate
2. Type Stream
3. Utilization of Combustion gas's

Where are you located theonlybull?