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How small to harvest walnut trees

Started by Robert R, March 29, 2005, 08:00:10 PM

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Robert R

I have a small group of walnut trees in the back corner of my pasture.  There is probably 16 or 20.  They average 10 to 20 inches at the bases.  Since this is a horse pasture, I try to keep my horses out of it with a hot wire.  I was wondering if it would be worthwhile to just go ahead and cut them.  They are all straight with at least 10 to 15 feet to any branches.  I have already cut anything over 22 inches.  Should I leave the rest alone or go ahead and take them too.  I don't really need to pasture space but if they are going to bring $1 a foot or more, I'd probably cut em.  I am guessing the mill I sell walnut to right now would give me 60 to 80 cents for that size.  How long is it going to take them to get to 22+ inches where I can get a higher price?
chaplain robert
little farm/BIG GOD

Buzz-sawyer

Sounds like they are ready to grow a bit more before cutting ;)
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

beenthere

Robert R
I'm curious. (Hopefully not coming across as sounding critical, because I don't want to do that).

Is the range of sizes 10 to 20" ?  What is the average?  Trees of the size you are talking, will add a lot of volume each year if they are putting on about 1/4 inch growth rings (1/2 " diameter) each year.

Horse pasture?, but the horses are fenced out?  If the walnut foliage is above the horses reach, are walnut trees a danger for horses?  If so, seems pruning of the trees, at least the smaller diameter ones, would help add quality to the volume growth you are adding each year, and protect the horse pasture.

I surmise you should keep them growing, unless there is real danger to the horses (I thought they had to eat the green leaves to be in trouble).
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Robert R

It is my understanding that it is the wilted, fallen leaves that are the culprit (I know that is the case with wild cherry) but I may be wrong on the walnut. 

The majority are in the mid to upper range of the size.  I cut a couple today just because I had the saw out and they were 18 inches and 21 inches each.  I also cut a 28 incher and 34 incher but they weren't in that pasture.  If they will grow fairly quickly, I'd leave em unless I wound up needing the space for more horses (which tends to happen around here).  In the autumn, I block off that whole third of the pasture until all the leaves fall and get good and dried out.  During spring and summer, I use it for my Belgians as a rotational plot.  They keep it mowed pretty good.  All the low branches were trimmed before I bought the place, I presume to be able to mow on a tractor without ducking.  They never have caused a problem for me but like everyone else, I see walnuts and think I am gonna get rich.  I imagine I would probably be wisest to let them grow some more and just hunt down walnuts elsewhere.  Around here, seems all we have is pinoak (which no one wants) and Ash which I cut a lot of and sell to an Amish mill.  It makes a bit of money but I'll never buy a new trailer out of Ash loads.  I need to find the walnut jackpot somewhere.  Unfortunately, we have a veneer plant around here that has pretty well denuded the landscape of walnuts anywhere that folks are willing to sell them.  I have access to a few that they couldn't get to with their equipment but since I use horses, I can access them more easily, once I get a bigger saw.
chaplain robert
little farm/BIG GOD

HORSELOGGER

Hi Robert... One thing that would help everyone in giving opinions to you is if you would start measuring the trees you are talking about at 4 feet 6 inches or so from ground level ( about chest high) That is the diameter at breast height or DBH. That is more of the industry standard, as a diameter at the base is really not an indicator of sawlog diameter. You might maybe spend some time and thought energy on ways that you could make a profit from the readily available , lower grade species, rather than become another high grader with a pair of horses as the sales pitch. As a one man show with horses, you would be better off finding a low volume ,high margin niche market rather than try to compete with the high volume low margin industry standard.If you take a worst first, Timber Stand Improvement, low impact approach, it will eventually open opportunities for you in which you will not be competing with the masses for work, and will be able to stand out from the crowd a little as doing more than being a timber pimp ;)
Heritage Horselogging & Lumber Co.
"Surgical removal of standing timber, Leaving a Heritage of timber for tommorow. "

Bro. Noble

Robert,

As long as those trees are putting on good growth,  I would advise leaving them.  Walnut trees,  especially if they are of veneer grade,  will increase in valeu per bdft as they become larger as well as increasing in volume at an increasing rate each year.  Look at the growth rings of the trees you have already cut and see how much they were increasing each year.  Spend some time with a forester or someone who can show you (if you don't already know)  what to look for in walnuts as far as quality and health.  My opinion is if they are high quality trees and healthy and still growing,  letting them grow will make you money------assuming that the market doesn't change :)
milking and logging and sawing and milking

SwampDonkey

Robert,
I think those high value walnut trees your seeking are the ones over 40 inches at breast height. It seems certain scales (Doyle) really favor the large diameter logs better. I'de hate the see a guy get shafted for his logs when you are over half way to making good money on them. Walnut are typically open grown I think and therefore gain diameter growth much faster than alot of the hardwoods, such as maple. I've not much experience with walnut, although I do have some on my place, but they are seedling and saplings and they are non-native species up here. I think if a machine can't get to the trees than a horse is gonna have a hard time to, unless there are alot of roads scaring up the hillsides. There may be an advantage in accessing senstive sites if there isn't uphill yarding. I've seen those curcumstances (hillsides) and it's not good for the horselogger's reputation nor the landowner woodlot. Way too many roads.

I think in your curcumstances, horselogger has some good advise for the long term approach to small scale forestry with the horses. :)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Phorester


Here in my end of Northern Virginia, the rule of thumb is to let walnuts get a minimum of 16 inches dbh.  This might not hold in your area.  You need to check with walnut buyers or a forester in your locality to see what the desired size is.

Bro. Noble had the right idea about looking at the stumps for growth rates.  But also check the stumps for any signs of decay, especially at the center, and any off color wood, which would indicate mineral stain.  Any defects such as these indicates that you might want to cut other walnuts before thay get as big as the ones with the bad stumps. Since a 22" stump is probably as small as you'd want to cut walnut (may be too small),  any defect could indicate that this area is not good for the growth of walnut.

If there's no defect in the stumps, that should indicate that you can grow good quality walnut here in a reasonable time. 

Bro. Noble

You might also want to have a forester or buyer, that knows how, to teach you how to 'thump'  trees for soundness.  No need to let a tree keep growing if it is beginning to become hollow. :)
milking and logging and sawing and milking

mrcaptainbob

There's quite a few black walnuts one our 20 acres. Must have upwards of four dozen in the front and side yard. And when talking with friends/family..."Oh! Those are worth a LOT of money!" Well, I called two places and one of them called back. The guy says that if the  trees are within a couple hundred feet of the house he won't even waste his time coming out. I tried asking a couple other questions, but the conversation was pretty much ended by him. He just didn't want to discuss 'it' anymore. Well, I can understand fence wire and the usual clothesline lines would wreck most any cutting equipment, but how can I or anyone else, for that matter, tell for sure if there's problems in these trees? Where can I go to learn some of what to look for in these walnuts that would be desirable/undesirable qualities?

Ron Wenrich

Start here for urban walnuts:

http://ohioline.osu.edu/for-fact/0044.html

For most trees, you can see a defect by the bark.  A fissure indicates that there is something wrong inside, like shake or rot.  Bark that moves in different directions, like a swirl indicates defect below.  It could be a knot or it could be metal.   
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

mrcaptainbob

Thanks, Ron. That was an informative read. There are three stately walnuts growing quite close to each other just off the south east corner of the house. As the article suggest considering the visual impact, these trees do just that. Approaching the house on the side of the hill with those trees off to the side is really pretty neat. The first branch on any of these is past the eaves of this two story. A lot of good reasons to get rid of them... a lot of good reasons to keep them, too.

Phorester


Ron had some good guidelines.  You can also run a metal detector around them. 

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