Geotextiles and skidding trails

Gordon · March 18, 2001, 06:52:59 AM

The use of geotextiles in building roads is becoming much more common place. Are any of you using any type of fabric under your roads or trails at this time?

Thanks in advance
Gordon

L. Wakefield · March 18, 2001, 07:48:02 AM

   As it happens i am quite interested in this right now- and for a very unique reason. Yesterday I had a 'stuck cow'. I've never had a stuck cow before. The snow is 5-6ft deep in the barn yard, and the cows had previously been sensible enough to stay on terra (relatively) firma, venturing out only a bit as I fed out onto the deeper snow on the periphery.

   So instead yesterday this damfool cow starts blundering out- gets foundered so she can't turn around- then continues in a curving path toward the back of the barn til she was wedeged beyond belief. I came along when she was shivering and had muscle spasms, snow already showing signs of her bleeding (still haven't figured out from where). So I started digging. Got a 6ft diameter hole to start with, til she could stand up and turn around. And that was only the beginning. Despite my packing and digging, she foundered 3 more times before we got her back to safety (my husband and a friend showed up and helped after the first hour of working and cussing). There is nowhere I do NOT ache.

   But of course I immediately wondered about some type of mat to throw down while the snow is in this 'rotten' state. I don't think it's really practical, but I see your post, so I thought I'd ask what they make, how much it costs, dimensions, and etc.

   Don't ever let your cows get stuck. LW

Gordon · March 18, 2001, 08:09:40 AM

L Wakefield, this link is for you-- http://www.ag.ohio-state.edu/~ohioline/aex-fact/0304.html

Here is one more that might interest you http://www.bae.uky.edu/~lturner/geopads.htm

Hope this helps
Gordon

Don P · March 18, 2001, 10:59:35 AM

They have been used around jobsites and new development roads I've worked in. Great stuff,one job we had a cat on standby it got so sloppy, a layer of that and some ballast stone and we had concrete trucks on it with no problems. A subdivision road had that down and the plows kept snagging it thru the winter.
L.W. I have visions of foundered cow wrapped in this stuff...poke leg holes and you have a sling though,maybe just outfit the cows? :D

Bill Johnson · March 19, 2001, 04:57:55 AM

I have seen this stuff used on a pretty regular basis, usually around water crossings. I've also seen it used on winter crossings that are removed after harvesting is done. The other application I've seen is when it was used to support a road across a swamp. What they did in this case was to cut the right of way during the winter, then they left all the slash etc on the road bed, covered this with geotextile and then built the road over top. As far as I know they are still using this road today and the construction was about 20 years ago.
I'll check some sources and see if I can't find some more info about this.

Bill

Jeff · March 19, 2001, 01:21:32 PM

Would this stuff be similar to what we see as landscape cloth? Only worlds heavier?

Bill Johnson · March 19, 2001, 01:56:15 PM

The stuff I've seen is a woven polypropylene material, very similar to those inexpensive tarps you see all over. The difference here is that most geotaxis will let water percolate through.
The stuff is pretty strong, I've seen them remove a crossing but bulldozing most of the fill off, then uncovering one end of the geotextile and attaching it to the dozer, as the dozer walks away the material just rolls up the remaining roadbed and you end up with a clean crossing the geotextile eventually pulls free of the road material and is hauled off to the dump. Pretty slick, too bad I don't have any action photos.
Bill

Jeff · March 19, 2001, 01:59:44 PM

QuoteL Wakefield, this link is for you-- http://www.ag.ohio-state.edu/~ohioline/aex-fact/0304.html

Here is one more that might interest you http://www.bae.uky.edu/~lturner/geopads.htm

Hope this helps
Gordon

Gordon you got more links then you know who... Good job!

L. Wakefield · March 23, 2001, 08:33:24 AM

Thanx for the linx- I think I'll be pricing this stuff and looking into using it in strategic spots on the farm. The animals are one factor; then there is the 'how do you get the earthmover to the spots where you want to work' problem. This stuff sounds like a 'make-the-road as you go' adjunct. Geezy-peezy, I sure could dump some money into this place! I need to sit back and figure out ways to get it back OUT. LW

Gordon · March 23, 2001, 02:49:52 PM

Jeff, I hear ya

But I still havn't found the proper information on the geotextiles yet that I'm looking for. Still huntin! I know it's out there and I just havent' found the right link yet.

L Wakefield is Geezy Peezy a real word if not it should be. I know how easy it is to dump money into a homestead. Sure is alot harder to make the money than it is to spend it.

Please let me know if you guys and gals find out anything else about the fabric.

Thanks in advance
Gordon

L. Wakefield · March 24, 2001, 05:33:14 AM

uh, negative on that. it's a euphemism, like (this is a local one) 'jeesum crow' or 'goshdarn it' or others too numerous to mention. I kinda like 'son of a sea-biscuit' myself. Doesn't turn the air blue- more of a pale mauve. I save the blue for when i have to move mountains- or cows.. lw

Jeff · March 24, 2001, 06:36:17 AM

I lean more towards "bun of a sitch" myself,

Bill Johnson · March 24, 2001, 09:24:33 AM

Jeff
I tried to post a picture of a sample of geotextile but something happened and I was unsuccessful.
If you check the userpics file it may be residing over there if you care to pull it over so everyone will know what the stuff I was talking about looks like.
My wife really likes the black stuff she uses in the garden (yes we have summer up here) to keep the weeds down in the tomatoes and peppers. The colour draws in more heat and seems to make the stuff mature a little faster.
Bill

Jeff · March 24, 2001, 12:36:20 PM

There we go!

(You also spell color funny up there too) ;)

Don P · March 24, 2001, 01:47:00 PM

We have Sunbelt (I think) on a very steep terrace back under erosion control rock.
My experience with it, it has always been covered with rock to let the water out and distribute the weight of vehicles, great for getting equipment around. In a barnyard setting I think the rock would discourage the animals from walking on it and so they would mire down beside the mats. Without the rock I think a cow would punch thru.
It is used in making drainfields as well as french drains where a trench is dug,lined with the cloth. A plastic tile is rolled in and covered with washed stone. The cloth is tucked over and the topsoil replaced. The cloth keeps the stone clean and moving water much better.

Gordon · April 08, 2001, 07:26:35 AM

I've found out quite abit more about the fabrics and they are quite amazing. Now I've got to narrow down what type of fabric is the best overall for this area.

Been getting some conflicting info on the woven versus non woven fabric. As to the actual benfits for each in my area.

Good news is that I'm going to be using some type of fabric in the near future. Be it woven non woven. The benfits far outweigh the cost.

Gordon

L. Wakefield · April 08, 2001, 07:12:51 PM

Keep us posted. I'm very interested. LW

Gordon · April 19, 2001, 04:00:17 PM

Here are a few more of the links that I've found.
The first one is great and full of information
of building forest roads.
http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/stewardship/accessroads/accessroads.htm

Here is a link from your neck of the woods L. Wakefield.
http://www.state.me.us/mdot/planning/csd/geotext.htm

Here is forest roadbuilding British Columbia style.
http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/tasb/legsregs/fpc/fpcguide/road/chap6.htm

and another
http://www.geomembranes.com/dn_textl.htm

Here is a link dealing with what a road is telling you by it's looks.
http://www.co.saint-marys.md.us/dpw/docs/drainqa.htm

Ok I've bored you enough for now. Got a few more if anyone is interested.
Gordon

Jeff · April 19, 2001, 04:10:18 PM

Speaking of Roads,

Ron Scott told me one time what the difference is between a road and a trail, when it is being referred to, say, for timber tax purposes. Any guesses on what the determining factors are in differentiating the two? (Ron don't tell em right off if they don't know)

Gordon · April 19, 2001, 06:20:05 PM

This is shooting off the hip, then I'll go looking at some printed text to see if I'm even close.

Trail: Could be temporary or seasonal use. Little or no grading from natural grade of the land. No added value to the property.

Road: Permanent, left standing after logging operations end. Adds value to the property.

Am I even close?
Gordon

Ron Scott · April 19, 2001, 07:05:11 PM

There are temporary roads and seasonal roads.

Jeff · April 19, 2001, 07:45:37 PM

Ron, do you recall what I am referring to? It had something to do with the vehicle size...

Bill Johnson · April 20, 2001, 05:16:12 AM

I would suggest that a road is capable of handling normal vehicles like cars, and trucks, while a traffic on a trail is restricted to either 4X4 type vehicles or specialized off road vehicles only.

Bill

Ron Scott · April 20, 2001, 07:41:14 PM

Yes, the USDA-Forest Service has a definition standard for what's a road and what's a trail. Bill is getting warm!

Forester Frank · April 25, 2001, 03:53:50 AM

Okay I'm going to chime in here.

I have purchased and used Geo-textile matting manufactured by Amoco. I purchased it through Price & Company (Grd. Rapids). Not cheap. Overa buck per foot, so use it wisely.

It works very well in for road construction through wet areas. To build a whole road would obviously be very expensive! I have only used it sparingly to get cross small (150 feet) wet areas that are common in the Great Lakes States.

There are many different grades of matting. I have used the industrial strength stuff that is nearly 1/4" thick. Jeff's photo shows the thin stuff that is used more for holding banks, soil erosion, and landscaping applications. I'll try to get a digital photo of the stuff I use.

Good topic and discusion. Wakefield you know that you can track all your property improvement expenses and claim them on your taxes. Check Bill Hoover's site at Purdue University. Good luck y'all.