Poll: fuel & driving

[tnlogger]

I've seen a lot of the small loggers here start having their logs hauled now. Its cheaper for them to pay 50M and send 4or5M then make 4 trips with the small trucks.
we were going to go to visit friends in lower MI in may and are going to wait for the piggy roast
and do it in one trip.  ;D lol at the prices right now it'll still be 600.00 gas for the round trip.
but well worth it  8)

[dutchman]

Motocycle will get a lot more use in better weather.
Portable milling will cost the customers more.
No truck rides in the woods.

[breederman]

We can't reduce business miles much,try to plan the day as best we can to keep miles down.I did change half of the spark plugs the other day,the back ones will have to wait for a day when I'm long on patience!

[Bro. Noble]

Back when I taught school,  I convinced my wife that I needed a new motorcycle to drive the 50 mile round trip to and from school.  It got 45 miles to the gallon-------same as the two diesil 5 speed cars we had at the time :D :D :D

[Haytrader]

 :
Noble, shame on you.
That was a dirty trick you pulled on your wife.
I think I will call her after you have gone to the milk barn.
I do have your number, you know.

;)
:D

[Ernie]

As an April fools gift, our beloved government is adding another .05 per litre to our fuel costs on Friday.  We have an election soon.  Here's hopling the voters come to their senses.

Ernie

[SwampDonkey]

I don't go on any casual drives. Just head to the bank, grocery, or work and once a week to relatives. $4.50/gallon here

This site gives the top 15 exporters of oil to the USA

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=44906

http://investincanada.com/english/View.asp?x=512&t=1&pid=

[Woodcarver]

Fuel seems expensive and it is, or course, higher than it has been for awhile.  However, if inflation is taken into consideration, gasoline is cheaper now than it was in the late 70's and early 80's.

Into today's dollars late 70's and early 80's gasoline prices in this area would be around $3.00/gal, perhaps a bit more.   

[wesdor]

I try to make the most of each trip like many of you.

However, we need to get someone in a decision making capacity in this country to pay attention to what the rest of the world is doing.  Last summer we were in Germany and rented a BMW.  Drove it at 120 - 150 MPH (not KM) and still got nearly 35 miles per gallon.  It ran on high quality diesel fuel that we don't even have in our country.  Granted it was nearly $6 / gallon (and that was figuring 1EU= 1$ which isn't true now and wasn't then).  Remember, their fuel tax is almost 100% and goes to support the wonderful autobahns they have where you really can drive at speeds faster than 150 miles per hour.

If we wanted to have better fuel economy the technology is out there. 

[sawguy21]

I don't wanna drive at 150 mph in anything that is on the ground. Tried that on a motorcycle once and still haven't stopped shaking.

[jjmk98k]

Heck, I might start riding a bicycle to work!, it's $2.19 a gallon here now :(

[Paschale]

From what I've heard, one of the biggest problems is actually state-side, in that there simply aren't enough refineries to meet up with demand.  The cost of crude has certainly risen, but the general consesus I've heard on the news is that the big problem is refinery.  There used to be quite a few refineries here in Michigan, but they've all but dwindled.  I would like to see the government implement some tax incentives for companies to reinvest in refineries.  Then I want the government to fight to open up a pipeline in Anwar, to minimize our reliance on OPEC, while at the same time forcing them to lower their per barrel price for crude simply for competition's sake.  Hopefully, once things in Iraq settle down, perhaps they'll be a bit more friendly towards us than the rest of the OPEC nations, though I suspect they'll decided to join up as well.

In the meantime, I'm not really curtailing my driving TOO much...I enjoy my independence too much!

[Ron Wenrich]

ANWAR oil will never be used in the US.  It will take at least 10 years to get the crude from ground to port.  The oil is high in sulfur, and our refineries can't use it.  It is destined for China or Japan.  Still wanna drill?

We stopped building refineries in this country 20 years ago.  The regs are a lot lower in other countries.  We import gasoline from Venezua and Mexico.  Not sure about Canada.  Refinery capacaity is a bit deceiving.

[SwampDonkey]

Canada is right up there with Saudi Arabia in terms of oil being exported to the US on a  daily basis, around 1.6 mill b/day. I'm not sure how much gasolene is directly exported to the US from Canada, but anywhere in Maine that hales an Irving/Mainway sign gets it's fuel from New Brunswick's refinery in Saint John. It's Canada's largest refinery (Irving Oil Corp).

[southview]

I would like to see gas prices at about $5.00 a gal.  It would hurt me financially but I will get by.  But hopefully that would help reduce the amount of gas/fuel we use here in the US and force the auto makers to put vehicles on the road that get 50-60 miles to the gal.  They have the technology to do so.  This would lower the emissions going into the air.  I don't have kids and at my age I'm not going to start but I think about the world we are going to leave the kids of today and it scares the heck out of me.  People need to quit thinking of themselves and how it affects them so much and look at the bigger picture.

[Tom]

Unfortunately too many people have the same idea of "saving" fuel or "wasting" fuel.  Fuel prices will curtail travel.  But, those who want to use punitive measures seem to think that the only people who will be affected are those who take vacations.  For some reason, making someone housebound is considered a valid control of the weather.

The ramifications of high fuel costs run deeper than the teenager that wants to take  his girlfriend to the movies.  We've created a society that has minimized agriculture and zoned Industry to the point that everything has to be shipped.  High fuel costs put farmers out of business, limit the transport of fresh vegetables and fruits, run the costs up on electricity and most every product manufactured. 

Taxes take money from people.  Governments are notorious for taking every opportunity to raise a tax, never decrease them; and "lose" the money in a bureaucratic maze.

Nobody will  disagree about creating alternative fuels.  I don't think that punishing the population and stopping the economy which has the potential of starving people, impeding transportation, separating families who have been separated by economic necessity, and making a "bigger" world of one that has been shrinking, is the right approach.

Most environmentalist I have had the opportunity to talk with use the word "they" a whole lot. 

[GHRoberts]

We replaced my wife's car this week. 1998 Camry with 150k  miles.  At $2/gal gas cost $.07/mile.

Compare that to the loss of value (purchase price less sale price) of the car of $.11/mile.

Gas is too cheap.

And the $.40/mile business travel deduction makes it worthwhile to do "business travel" rather than sit in my office.

[Curlywoods]

I have to travel so I just factor it in to my business.  I can't stop just because of fuel prices.  On a personal note, I will maybe think about trips a little more, but if I want to go somewhere, I will go anyway.

[Tom]

 I've got a good idea.  It wouldn't even be an imposition either and it might even develop into a craze.

What we do is allow the Government to "sell"  "Paymore" permits.   They would be just like the Invalid parking permits.  If you desire to pay more for fuel, you go down to the courthouse with a note from your filling station and ask to be issued a Paymore permit.  Invalid parking permits are about $30 dollars a year here, I think.  So, Paymore permits could fall right in line with that.... unless you wanted to pay more.

This permit would allow you to pay, in multiples, greater than the asking price for fuel.  You could get a blue one that would allow a 10% obligation, a green one for 50%. a Red one for 100% and a yellows one for 200%.  There might even be a Fluorescent Orange one for 500% for those who felt immensely wasteful and want to cleanse their souls.

This thing could get on a roll and be applied to other products as well.  Here's a thought,  a per-pound additional charge for Garbage.  That would help to insure that you ate everything on your plate.  There's people starving in this world, you know.  'Course, by the time the garbage company passes on their fee for their 500% fuel Paymore permit it might decrease ones appetite for a Paymore garbage permit.....  not to mention their appetite all together.

How about a Paymore medical permit  to help compensate for the diminishing availability to produce doctors?

I haven't considered yet what the ramifications on city improvements a Paymore permit would allow.  the Mayor's street could be paved again or that patch of woods on the west side of  town that is in the way of development could be leveled and turned into a park.  That's a good idea.  We could charge admittance to the public park created by the government with the funds from the Paymore permit.  Shucks, there would even be folks that might get a Paymore permit to up the ante for the park entrance.

The good thing about this approach is that it isn't mandating.  If you don't want to pay more than something is worth, then you don't have to buy a Paymore permit. ;D

[Bro. Noble]

Tom,

Is it safe to assume that you are caught up with your sawing? :D :D

[Tom]

Just trying to do my part, Br'er Noble. ;D

[breederman]

  GO TOM! 

[Rockn H]

With my primary job as a freight relocator, I'm interested to know if yall have thought about the cost of everyday items increasing do to fuel prices?  For instance I'm getting an average of .18 cents per mile fuel surcharge on most of my loads.  Say to take sugar bags to Florida is 950 miles with a fuel surcharge of $171.  Not much until you think about the trucks bringing in the sugar, the glue for the bags, and so on.  Not to mention the trucks hauling the finished products back out.  Most of the finished products or sent to a warehouse or Distribution Center where big lots are broken down and mixed with other items to be sent out to stores or sometimes another supplier.  That is, a whole load of toilet paper(we haul that) doesn't go to a Wal Mart store.  It goes to a DC where one pallet is put on a trailer with pallet of shoes and so on.  The finished product, not to even mention the supplys to make it, could be shipped as many as 3 even 4 times before it gets to the consumer.  It adds up and the cost is passed on to you and me the consumer.  :(

By the way, my fuel bill last week for just over 3000 miles was $1,560.

[Tom]

Yep, Rockn H, and even though your surcharge probably doesn't cover all of your addendum expenses, they get passed down hill with the item.  Finally it's the fellow on the bottom of the food chain that has to come up with all the coins to pay for all of the "costs" back up the line.  It gets really convoluted when you consider that you have to pay some of that surcharge you charge too, when you buy that roll of paper at the storer.

The most difficult thing to explain to most folks is the far reaching ramifications a cost along the delivery route has to the end customer.  Most end customers don't seem to relate the cost of fuel that that was used to delliver the fuel that fueled the tuck that delivered the goods.  Those costs as well as the middle men at each stop along the way, finally end up coming out of the end consumer's pocket. 
Not only are the costs real, but there are taxes passed on  in each transaction as well.  Price increases can be a real windfall for Governments.

[sawdust]

  Have a look at a couple books by Richard Heinberg,  one is The Party's Over another is called Power Down.  He also has a website www.muselstter.com this site also has some interesting links. Boiling Point is another really depressing book I cannot recall the author at the moment.
Fuel here in Edmonton is 89.9/litre  ~4litres /us gallon = real close to 3.60/gallon.
:-[