Hackberry ties ?

Tony · March 18, 2005, 09:42:14 PM

When I first talked to a tie buyer, he told me what he would and would not buy. I understand why they won't buy willow, soft maple, but what's wrong with hackberry.

Tony

Ron Wenrich · March 19, 2005, 12:25:45 PM

The only thing that our tie buyer won't buy is tulip poplar, aspen, and willow. There's probably a few other softer hardwoods that won't make specs.

I have no problem selling red maple, hackberry, elm, or any other mixed hardwoods. I even slipped a few ailanthus in, since they couldn't tell what they were and they weren't on their do not buy list.

Must be a regional thing.

Cedarman · March 19, 2005, 12:38:12 PM

I am surprized they didn't smell the ailanthus. :D :D :D

Bro. Noble · March 19, 2005, 05:06:37 PM

When I first started cutting ties, I asked what species of hardwoods they bought. The buyer said "anything but hackberry" (later he added elm, box elder, and maple.

It may just be in our area, but about the time hackberries get big enough to make a tie, their heart wood becomes very dark brown and punky. I have sent in a few that were white all the way through and they bought them with no problem.

Robert R · March 20, 2005, 09:15:23 PM

Sorry to be ignorant, but exactly are "ties" and what are they used for.

Tony · March 20, 2005, 09:28:31 PM

Sorry for the confusion { ties} are railroad crossties. 8) 8)

Tony

Bibbyman · March 21, 2005, 03:25:06 AM

What about cotton wood and sycamore for RR ties?

Ron Wenrich · March 21, 2005, 06:02:50 AM

Sycamore yes, cottonwood no.

Bro. Noble · March 21, 2005, 06:03:08 AM

We sell lots of sycamore, but don't know about cottonwood as we don't have any here.

Tony · March 21, 2005, 08:24:34 AM

Ditto Ron, Sycamore yes cottonwood no. For switchties,10' and up, only sweetgum and oak.

Tony

Bibbyman · March 21, 2005, 08:27:09 AM

Anybody out there sawing a lot of RR ties with an LT40 Super?

How many can you saw in a day or week?

Ron Wenrich · March 21, 2005, 04:53:08 PM

Up here they will also take hard maple and hickory in the switch ties. Prices for 10' is less than for an 8'6" tie. So, we cut them back and use the leftover for firewood.

Robert R · March 21, 2005, 06:48:02 PM

Not having a saw mll, this is purely an inquisitive question, but how does one get into the tie making and selling business. I would assume that the railroads have big, big suppliers. What are the dimensions that ties are cut to? They look to me like they are treated--do you have to treat them before they'll buy them. Do you go through a tie broker? Don't give away any trade secrets, just some generalized information.

Bro. Noble · March 21, 2005, 09:14:09 PM

We sell to Koppers and Somnerville tie companies. Both have buying yards about 35 miles from us. They buy in several states, treat them and sell to railroads internationally.

There are several sizes of ties, we only cut two sizes. Mostly 7X9" 8'8"long and some 6X8" 8'8" long.

To get in the business, you just find out what the buyer wants, what the specifications are, and start sawing.

sawman · March 21, 2005, 10:28:20 PM

Don't know about the lt40 super but if we got good logs we can easily saw out 15 a day which makes a bundle, on our lt30. We only saw 7x9 s for the ties

Ron Wenrich · March 22, 2005, 05:37:06 AM

The price on the 6x8 is pretty low, so we don't fool with them. Koppers also buys a 7x8. Switch ties can be from 10' to 23'. The prices on the 23' ties is really good, but they don't allow just anyone to saw them. Size demand and pricing is probably a regional thing.

There are also some quality issues with ties. Not just any log will saw one, even though the dimensions are good. No large branch stubs, limited shake, no rot, and minimized double heart are just some things you have to watch for. Some defects can be sawn out, some can't.

There are some other sized timbers that they need from time to time. We used to get orders for flange timbers. Those are the ones you see when you drive over a RR crossing. We also used to saw bridges. RR bridges are made of wood, since concrete can't take the pounding and temperature extremes. We haven't seen many of these lately.

Railroads are pretty profitable these days. A tie only lasts about 7 years on the heavier lines. There are about 3200 ties/mile. Do the math and you'll see its a pretty good market. I've only seen them put us on quotas 1 time, and that was 20 years ago. But, they will drop price to control inventory.

Robert R · March 22, 2005, 07:22:21 PM

This is fascinating to me, enough to make me wish I had a mill. I got out of the farmer's market business because it was to hard to try to please all of the people all of the time but I do still raise quite a bit for my high-volume customers. This is kind of the same idea--a large market on which to sell all of your goods at once rather than scrounging for little sales. Very, very interesting. If I had a mill, I'd be all over this. It is the same reason I am more interested in selling pallet logs to a mill than to individuals for firewood--I like the idea of a high-volume buying customer base but it sure does hurt to lose one if 25% of your market is tied up in that single outlet.