Whats the average length of wood you saw?

[KiwiCharlie]

G'day Guys,
Firstly, where Im coming from with this question!  When deciding on a mill, and the configuration you want, Im guessing one must determine what length trees you will be milling.  This allows you to get a mill that will go that length, or get track extensions to get to your length etc.
Or are the logs you get bucked to certain lengths?

Basically,
1.  What would be the average length that you saw?
2.  What would be the longest you would saw?
3.  Do you ever wish/need to saw longer?

This question is not limited to portable mills, ie Jeff, what lengths would you have been sawing at the mill??  ???

There would also be differences milling dimension timber vs beams etc??  ???

BTW, imperial answers are fine, I can convert to metres!  :D ;)
Thanks for any input.
Cheers
Charlie.

[sawmillsi]

Charlie,

I can give you a 2 part answer:

1. When I am milling in Australia for our business (www.mullumbimbywoodworks.com.au) we are cutting logs from salvage (from road sides, around houses, sotrm damage etc...) and the length of saw log is prescribed by to condition of the tree.

2. When I am milling in PNG, the Solomon Islands or Africa, we normally cut to a given maximum length (unless specific orders are on hand). That length is 5.7mtrs (the inside length of a 20' shipping container). Shorter lengths are also taken to maximise the recovary from a tree. These are trees from native forest and have long, well shaped boles.

The average length in Australia is approx. 3m and overseas is about 5m.

The longest I have ever sawn is in Australia - 18mtrs (they were 350x100's or 14"x4"x60') for floor joists out of Black butt (Eucalyptus pilularis).

I find from 3-5mtrs in length I don't have to worry about blade change over so much (with swing blade mills you need about 1 meter (3 feet) to swing the blade) with standard tracks.

As a miller my thoughts are efficiency of milling and through put of timber - as a forester my thoughts are full utilization of tree - I think the secret is to find a balance of both.

Simon

[KiwiCharlie]

Hi Simon,
Thanks for your reply, theres some good info there.  Thats exactly what Im after.  How did you saw the 60' job?  And what mill?  Did you just keep adding rail extensions to get to the length?
As you say, logs salvaged are what they are, length wise.  Do you have to buck them to length for your mill, or just add extensions as the log requires?
Cheers
Charlie.

[Ianab]

Hi Charlie

Most of my sawing is like Simon has mentioned, salvaged trees from farms etc. I also buck them to 3 or 4 m for ease of handling and to get the best logs out of the tree.  A 9m log that tapers from 1m to 30cm is the norm, it's a pain to handle without heavy machinery and it's a pain to saw because of the taper. Buck it up into 3 x 3m sections and it all becomes much simpler. My mill will cut up to about 6m, but I've never sawed that length, lack of suitable logs and 3m is the longest boards I've needed so far. I can see the point of going to 5 or 6m if you have suitable logs. Anything over that is a special application, long beams , etc.

Ian

[sawmillsi]

Charlie,

One of my customers have a 10" WPF that he hardly used (he worked full time as a plumber) - he made up tracks specially for that job.

The rafters in our shed are 14mtrs long (single peice - no join) - we just kept adding tracks until they where long enough.

NB. All the mill mentioned by me are Peterson WPF's and for the long lengths are using the Low Low track system.

Like Ian said, if there is a big taper or its bendy, it gets cut back to shorter lengths. But on average the logs are cut to about 3mtrs and the shortest I have ever cut is about 1.2mtrs.

Our normal setup is using a standard track system (8mtr length overall) and I don't normally add tracks, but I will if people want to pay for the long timber.

Simon

[KiwiCharlie]

Hi Si,
Good one.  So - longer lengths (than average) = premium price??  ???
Cheers
Charlie.

[KiwiCharlie]

Hi Ian,
Thanks for your reply.  Are you talking about your Log Locust?  I guess it doesnt matter what the mill type, but it is interesting to hear what lengths are being sawed.  Taper must play a large part in any equation.
What did your mill come as standard length?
Cheers
Charlie.

[Ianab]

Hi Charlie

The mill is a WPF, but with a chainsaw powerhead like the Log Locust. I think the tracks are about 7m in total, so cut a log almost 6m long. Like I said I've not maxed out the length yet. I think if you have a market for oversize cuts then you can get a premium for them. Think long beams and table slabs, the price pre cube goes up on that stuff because big commercial mills cant cut them.

Ian

[KiwiCharlie]

Hi Ian,
Yes thats a good point - being able to cut what the circle millers cant.  Thats certainly a niche market.  From my experience, when you go to a timber yard, you dont get much over 4 metres in, say, 4x2.
Cheers
Charlie.

[sawmillsi]

Charlie,

In Australia it is near immposible to buy timber longer than about 7mtrs - this is due to 3 reasons (as far as i can tell).

1. Most timber (probably 85%) is cut using either twin headers or sawmills that hold the log and pass it through a blade, thus reducing the ability to cut long lengths.

2. Occupational health and safety  concerns stop workers from being able to easly handle long timber (in fact our national postal system forbid their workers from picking up anything heavier than 15kg, over this must be with a lifting machine of some sort).

3. It is nearly impossible to get logs long enough to get long lengths.

Long timber is therefore very expensive, especially when there are also of large dimensions eg. wider than about 250mm, and thicker than about 150mm and longer than 6mtrs.


I priced some 250mmx75mmx7mtrs for a gazibo we were building for my parents birthdays out of a local hardwood. The timber was green off saw. It was $2500/m3 and they told me I would have to wait about 4 weeks for the timber to be cut (but  they couldn't garentee that it would be 4 weeks, they said it might be longer).

Simon

[Tom]

The logs that I saw are already "bucked" when I arrive on site.  I have some input as to length because I talk with the customer on the phone.  Much of the wood is already destined for project so the logs are cut for that purpose.

Hardwood from people's yards, to be used in their own projects, are in lengths of 8' to 12' and I prefer 10'.   Most mills are built to dog 8' logs but a little length helps to hit the mill square with them.  10' also is short enough that boards can be transported in the back of a pickup truck.  That's important if the customer needs to carry the board to another site for machining.

Most of the Pine and Cypress I saw is in 16' lengths.  This is in dimensional stock destined for the construction of barns and other out-buildings.  Some 20' stuff is sawed for open-span trusses and rafters for hay barns.

Softwood cut for paneling, decking and sheeting is cut either 8' or 12'.  The shorter stuff for inside and the outer stuff for outside walls.  The longer length allows board and batten construction to reach below the floor line.  Some 16' may be cut for peaks.

Softwood Flooring is usually cut as long as I can cut.  These boards will be from 16' to 24'.  The aim is to make as few runs over the length of the room as possible.  Most of this stuff is used for wide flooring and boards will be 12" to 25" wide.

Most of the beams and headers I saw are 20' long with requests on occasion for "as long as I can get", which is 24 feet.

Most of the softwood 8' stuff is sawed from a 16' log when possible and cut to size later.  There are a lot of 8' x 4"x4" fence posts cut like this.  Many like 6' fence posts and 6' doesn't dog on the mill, so they are cut out of 12'+ logs.

[Corley5]

Whatever length of lumber I need that's what I cut my logs allowing for trim of course.  Six and 1/2 foot is about the shortest I can saw and a 22' will fit through the mill door but logs this long aren't real nice to saw.  100" sticks 12" on the small end are my favorite to saw

[Jeff]

We saw probably 80% 10ft  18% 8 ft, the 2% balance being longer wood up to 16ft. 16ft is the limit to come in our mill doors.

[Ron Wenrich]

It all depends on species and grade.  Bucking should be done for grade, but the lower grades end up being bucked for the low grade market.

For tulip poplar, we have 4 markets we saw.  Clear lumber is sent to a veneer mill, and they only want 8' or 16' and 70% 10 1/2" & wider.  The next best market is F1F & Btr, and they like 16'.  The lower market is casket grade and they want 8'.  We cut 16' and then cut the bundle in half.  Our low grade goes primarily into 2x3x16 for chicken house construction.  Its also cheaper to saw 16' logs than it is to cut 8'.

Most hardwood markets will accept lumber from 4 - 16'.  The highest grade usually requires 8' minimum lenght, so we don't cut anything shorter.  We do have a nice niche market in long switch ties.  The longest we saw is 23'.  The 8' logs are cut 8'6" to accomodate the regular tie market.

We also have a low grade 12' & 14' market that pays better than grade.  I'm starting to see a lot more of this length of log.

We had one mill who had 2 carriages bolted together and he could saw 40' timbers.  He only did it on very rare occassions. 

[Larry]

Sawing grade 70% - 10' and 20% - 8'.  Shorter and fat for the remaining 10% because I can get em free or low cost.

I like 10' because that is all the tractor can lift, all I can turn on my manual mill, and the kilns are built for 10' lumber.

[Bro. Noble]

When we first started sawing,  we tried to keep logs and lumber from 8' to 18'.  Ended up with lots of little piles of logs and lumber here and there.  some of it getting old.  Had several people special order stuff and then not show.

We quit sawing for the public and just sold ties,  grade lumber, and pallet stock.  At that point we cut our logs 8'8",  9'6",  and 12'.  We still had several piles of different sized ties and grade lumber,  some of it got pretty old before we got a full bundle.

Now we cut all our hardwood logs 6'8".  We don't have much laying around the yard and none of it is old ;D  Once in a while we cut pine to order and cut up to 18'

[KiwiCharlie]

G'day everyone,
Thanks for all your replies.  Not being a sawyer (yet! ;)) I was expecting the average to be longer than its turning out to be.
Theres some great info in these replies - again, thanks.
Cheers,
Charlie.

[Frank_Pender]

12s and 16s

26'

no

[Percy]

 I bought a 6 foot extension for my LT70 in Jan of this year and since then, I cut mostly 24 foot WRC beams.....its fun but Im gonna look like Arnie(California govner) or die soon.  ;D

[dutchman]

I cut mostly Cherry , and red oak for grade.Best production is on 10' @ 20" dia.
White oak and Sycamore get Qsawn  so 8' and 10' are best sizes to keep taper from being to big a factor,can only saw up to 30"dia.
Tulip poplar in 8' and 10' are the easiest to sell.
I'll saw crotch wood down to 4' with the buyer here to help clamp it on the mill.

[DanG]

I saw mostly salvaged SYP and it comes mostly in odd lengths.  You'd be surprised, or maybe not, how many are bucked to just under one of the "standard" lengths.  Get a lot of 11' 11" logs! >:( :D :D   I usually leave them at that length, but have to sell as 10', in order to get rid of the lumber.  I frequently have to trim off a couple of feet to get the proper length for custom orders, so I built a moveable bunk to accomodate the short or oddball lengths. I can saw as short as 18", so I cut up the shorts into blocking.  I don't really have a market for it, but have given some to the tree service guys to use as pads under outriggers, etc.  Makes a nice little good-will gift that don't cost me anything. ;)

I'm running into the same problem Noble had, with numerous little stacks of different sizes and lengths, and I'm running out of shed space.  In some cases, I have 2 8' stacks on top of a 16' stack, which is miserable if I need to get the 16's out.

I'm in a little run where everybody wants 20' lumber, and I'm out of 20' logs. :-\  I cut down 2 trees in my own yard to fill an order this week.  The trees had to come down anyway, so it worked out well.

I can cut up to 24', but the longest I have needed is 22'.  I can tell ya that a 22' 2x8 is a LOAD for one old man working alone!

[Brucer]

Last summer:
  Shortest = 3' (special order)
  Longest = 36' (special order, and we only had 33' of mill!)
  Average = 16'
No matter how long the mill, someone always wants something longer. Sometimes it's better to
just turn down the job.