A bole to a cant

[Engineer]

Hi all,

Here's the situation I'm faced with - I have three piles of pine logs, most in the 14-20" diameter and 8-12' long range.  Probably 8000-10000 board feet.  I don't have time to saw them all before they rot.  I know I'll be needing pine lumber in the future, and also some beams for a shop/barn. 

Would there be any long-term problems if I squared up each log to a cant of known dimensions - say, a 12x12 or 8x8 or whatever, and then took them off the mill and stacked and stickered them?  The thought being - I can get back to them sometime in the next 12-18 months, but not before they totally are ruined in log form.  Most of the logs are already a year old, had grubs and worms eating the sapwood, have mildew and blue stain.  The rest (probably a quarter of them) are recently cut and are in good shape.   I need to find a way to stop the grubs from eating the wood, and slow down or stop the blue stain.  I also need to saw the decent newer logs before summer, so they don't suffer the same fate as the old ones.

The main concern I have, other than rot and bugs, is reaction.  I'm worried that if I square up a log and then cut it to size in the future, the outside of the cant will have dried and the inside will still be green.  Wouldn't this cause some considerable movement in the boards/beams, or will it return to straight once all sides have an equivalent MC?

Any advice would be welcome here.  I really need to get these taken care of somehow, and I also need the space that the log piles take up.


Postscript EDIT:  All of the old logs were "leftovers" from logging out enough pieces for my timber frame.  Mostly short logs, tops and small-diameter stuff.  The newer stuff was a trade from a customer for some surveying and engineering work, and he had a lot of really nice pine to get rid of.  I don't want to waste any of it, but I haven't really 'paid' for it either.

[Cedarman]

If you don't saw them you know what you will have.  I'd make cants out of them a little bigger then your final dimension.  That way if you get a little bend you can straighten them out.  Be sure to get any bark off the corners. That's where the bugs eat best.  Put them on thick stickers to get them to dry.  Make sure they get plenty of air movement and leave room between cants. Cut the best first if you might not get to all of them.  My 2 cents worth.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Find a sawyer---make a deal. I would not handle them more than I had to.

[Bibbyman]

If pine dries and cracks like oak,  then I wouldn't cant them out.  You'll end up with a lot of boards that'll fall apart from having one or two big cracks down the middle.

[Tom]

The number one best thing to do is put the logs in a pond.  That kills bugs and keeps them from splitting.   The second best thing is to rig sprinklers over the logs and keep them sopping wet Don't let them dry out.  This also helps to keep bugs down but won't stop those already in the log.  The sprinklers have to run pretty much all the time so it can be a hassle.

If you have to saw the stuff.

First choice is to cut it into what you know you will have to have.  Lots of dimensional lumber is common enough that you will know that you need certain sizes.  The bulk of it is 2x4, 2x6 and 2x10 for headers.  Some folks like a 2x12,

The second choice would be to create cants.  Cants should be cut dimensions that will produce the dimensional sticks you will need later.  The smaller the cant, the faster it will dry.  Over sizing a little will allow for kerf later.

An example would be 4x12.   This will produce 2x4's or 2x6's later (as well as make headers)
Your actual size may be 4.5x 13.

Use all the rules for creating decent wood when creating the cant.  A pith that is centered will create very little side-bend.  A cant from the side of the log will not be able to be avoided but you should consider it's side-bend (crook) when creating it.

In thle process of creating the cants, anything that you trim off to get to the cant (outside lumber) turn into 1x or 2x dimensional stock.

If your pine has been down long enough that you have varmints living in it already (flat-head borers, etc) then sealing is not an option and your best hope at preservation is quick air drying.  Keep the sawed wood under a shed, out of the sunlight, out of the rain and dew, and provide it with a lot of flowing air. 

An insecticide should also be considered for the sawed wood and the ground beneath it.  Keep all bark, slabs, limbs and other refuse away from the sawed lumber.

[Ron Wenrich]

Any time we get white pine, we saw it into cants for the cabin trade and the post and beamers.  For cabin stock, we saw 6x8 and leave them heavy.  For the post and beamers, they seem to like 8x8, 8x10, and 8x12. 

Side cuts are made into 2x8 for cabin siding, and the better stuff goes to 1x6 for T&G paneling.  Clears are cut to 5/4 for a ready market.  I've also sawn 10"  & wider for board and batten, using a 2 1/2" batten.

Everything is put on stickers.  It helps prevent blue stain, but it sounds like you're beyond that.  We also make sure nothing touches in the pile, so there is good air flow.

We've had cants sitting in our yard for long periods of time.  There isn't a whole lot of degrade, and checking is usually at a minimum; but there will be some. 

I have sawn some cants down into dimension stock after it is dry.  You will need to have oversized cants so you can square it up and keep your size.

You folks up north have a better quality of white pine.  Ours is the black knot type.  That red knot pine would make some dandy paneling and possibly be furniture grade. 

[Kirk_Allen]

Isn't the Black Knot created from a dead branch and the Red Knot from a live branch?  Seems like I read that somewhere but dont remember where.

[cut2size]

I don't know what kind of mill that you have but I would make an effort to saw into lumber ASAP.  10,000 bd ft of lumber should take from 5 to 15 days.  If you take one day a week to saw you will finish in less than 3 months.  Cutting into cants and removing and stacking would be time consuming and way too much effort.  I have sawn white pine logs that looked like they were too far gone and gotten great lumber from them.  I sawed some pine that had been cut and piled for 4 years and still recovered quality lumber.  Of course there were sizable losses.   I think that the sheer number of logs is intimidating you.  Just saw one log at a time.
David

[Ron Wenrich]

The black knot does come from dead branches.  We have a casket company that won't buy pine in our area, but does buy pine from New England.  Its all black knot vs red knot. 

[Engineer]

I got all red knot stuff, really nice, but whooee  there are some BIG ones in those logs.  I have one 8x8 timber (that we rejected for structural reasons) that had the knot covering all four faces of the timber.  I'm surprised it didn't break when we moved it, but it seems solid (for now).

I'm anticipating (based on what I've cut so far) of 600-1000 board feet of clear pine, which will become flooring for the house.  I was in an 1850s vintage house yesterday and all the floorboards were pine, absolutely clear, all about six feet long and 20-24" wide.  Pretty impressive.

Thanks guys, for the advice - I'm going to start tomorrow and cut a little at a time until it's done.

Jon

[Ron Wenrich]

1850's white pine was a lot different from todays.  Growth rings were a lot tighter than those of today, and that made it more dense. 

My house was built in the 1850's and all of the pine floors were washed out from foot traffic, especially the steps. 

How would you get past all the softness?  I have cherry floors, and they get scratched pretty quickly. 

[Minnesota_boy]

My house was built in the 1850's and all of the pine floors were washed out from foot traffic, especially the steps. 

How would you get past all the softness?  I have cherry floors, and they get scratched pretty quickly. 

I asked a customer of mine the same question when he wanted me to saw red pine for floring.  He said he poured urethane over the floor and it was good for 10 years.  Then just pour another layer of urethane.  Said he had done it before and it held up well.