Sawmill before there were engines

[Robert R]

Just for grins, does anyone have or know of a link to information about true horsepower sawmills.  I know they used to put horses on a walker or a treadmill to rotate a shaft and gears similar to the pto on a tractor for all kinds of different applications.  I am curious as to how this would translate in to milling.  Any ideas?  There is a new treadmill for horses with a variable speed pto attachment.  I have no idea how fast it goes or what the minimum would be for sawing lumber.  Just curious.

[Back40x2]

ROBERT,     

      I WAS ALWAYS TAUGHT "WORK SMART, NOT HARD" :D ;) :D  jUST KIDDING ;)  NEVER HEARD OF IT ???   GOOD LUCK

[Robert R]

Back40, you're dealing with a guy here who cuts his hay with a horsedrawn mower and picks it up and puts it in the barn with a pitch fork.  If I could find a good buggy horse, I'd sell my car--only drive it to town to get groceries.  I just don't like the sounds of engines.  Wouldn't mind having one of those big 2-man saws but my wife won't come out and play with me unless we are riding the horses.  Also on my wish list is one of those 7 foot gang reel mowers so I can do away with my LawnBoy--although I usual just run a hot wire around the yard and turn the girls loose a couple days a week.

[pigman]

Robert R,
Do you wear a black wide rimmed had like some of my neighbors.
I am sure one of them could fix you up with a good buggy horse and a buggy too.
Bob

[Robert R]

Don't have the hat but most of my friends do.  Got an appy that is going for buggy training real soon.  If he pans out, I'll be getting one.  It is amazing, if you really use your horses, how much they can save you in cash.  If you just have them for fun, they cost a fortune to maintain--we got some of both but only 4 of them earn their keep.

[Ironwood]

Robert R,

  Try looking at some old Eric Sloan books, seems he did some sketches of the old pit saws and horse/dog/goat powered farm equip. including butter churns and antthing imaginable. Too tired to elaborate tonight.  REID

[Ron Wenrich]

Before the internal combustion engine, mills were run by steam.  Before that, they were water powered.  The manpowered sawing was done with pit saws.  I've never seen anything on horsepowered mills.

[Bibbyman]

A buddy of mine was at a large national draft horse and mule auction.  Lots of Amish were there.  There was a guy there with an "Amish tractor".  That is the rear half of an Allis WD44.  Thee front half being replace by horses or mules via a tongue.

The advantage being,  you'd have PTO power.   The salesman was giving his pitch about being able to hook it to a bailer, small combine, mower, etc.  Anything a tractor could do with a PTO. 

My buddy jumps in;  "How would you dig a post hole with it?"  The salesman was not happy with that question but the Amish thought it quite funny!

[Jeff]

Pit Saw



Here is a link to when Tom and I visited Old Mill Creek, a water driven sawmill. You can search "old mill creek" to find other stories and photos as well.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=8002.0

[pigman]

And I complain about the sawdust when I use my WM. >:( That bottom sawyer must eat a lot of dust. ;D
Bob the complainer

[bberry]

    The guy on the bottom was called the pigman oops I mean the pitman. :D I've got hogs too so don't get offended.
    When modern technology struck in those days it replaced the guy on bottom ( in the pit)with a wheel that had a pivet point on it and that was the pitman bearing. Have you seen one on a sickle bar mower driving the blade back and forth. Even though the pitman lost his job at the mill he continued to use his skills of working in a pit and became a grave digger.  :D Pit-i-ful :D
     A type of sawmill here on the Maine coast was the tide mill. Many towns had more than one.
     All across the country pit men lost thier jobs and retired early. They all moved to Pennsylvania and started a new town. I think it was called Pittsburg. :D :D Pit-e-ful Again!!!
     A few men that became pitmen made it big later as movie stars. Didn't Brad Pitt start that way? :DJust Pit-a-ful!
     Up here in Maine most of us think it's better to be on top.  smiley_hanged

[Don P]

The pitman usually had a broad brimmed hat too. I remember a picture in Nat'l Geographic of a horizontal gang saw in India, 4 pairs of men sitting on each side of a log with a misery whip between each pair. Each pair was taking off the next board beneath the men ahead of them.
The machine Robert R is describing is called a Horse-Power, first introduced by Sanford Machine in 1862. They were used into the early teens when stationary power and tractors made it onto the farm. The horses were hitched to a sweep and by walking around would turn a gear that drove a tumbling rod (the PTO), the horses stepped over the rod each round (I've seen sketches of it in a board covered trench too). They were single horse up to 14 horsepower. Some nearby Amish used to have one on a sawmill. If I remember right theirs was a 4 sweep, it took 2 horses for pine and 4 for oak. I think 8 horses were used for threshing.

I've put an article up on sawmill history, I've been slowly collecting pictures from folks as I see them post historic sawmills and plan to add them as soon as I find that tuit.
http://www.ls.net/~windyhill/sawmillhistory1.htm

[Jeff]

Since I am a drag saw junkie I have come across this website several times during research. Its a Horse powered dragsaw setup similar to how Don describes the power to a sawmill.

http://my.execpc.com/~nostberg/other_stuff/horse_saw/horse_saw.htm

[Ironwood]

bberry,

  I live near the "Burg" careful there! ;) A couple of years ago I happened onto an old blade from a "sash saw", the predessor to the circle mill. Boy was I happy to find one of those. It hangs in the shop. Fun to think how far we've come.

  I have scavenged exotic woods from around the world, coming in as pallet stock. It looks like pit saws are alive and well around the third world given what I have seen. We have a local tile importer and his "exotics pile" seems to be the best. I even found some very large Purple heart boards at Lowes from a pallet of something. I DUMPSTER DIVE! :D


            REID

[Sawyerfortyish]

About 25 or so years ago I came across a sawmill that was powered by one of those sweeps as it's been called. Four horses walked around in a circle and that is what powered the mill. I didn't pay much attention to it but asked what it was and that what I was told. It was in a pile in a farm  junk yard. Wish I asked more about it now

[Ianab]

A few months back we went on a road trip and visited a forestry museum, lots of old stuff like that.
This one is a 2 horsepower logging winch.




No horse powered sawmills, but lots steam powered stuff, old sash mills, pit saws etc.

Rest of the pics are on this thread

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=9786.0

Cheers

Ian

[sigidi]

Robert,

Have you got any horses called Conan??? I'd guess they do the job for sure ;)

Seriously though, I'm thinking if you have the horses who are happy to walk circles all day and you hitch 'em to an axle you can then gear it out to a circle blade to cut timber just feed nice and easy and work the gearing right - admittedly for me it was easier to buy a Lucas.

[Robert R]

Molly and Ginger are my work horses--I don't think they go in circles for long without protesting but my wife has a string of show horses that lunge and lunge and lunge for training.  I was just wondering if that might translate into some useful energy production but it was mostly just a curiosity. 

Never met a horse named Conan--good name for one.  Met a horse named Goliath once who is the Guiness World Record for the tallest horse--wouldn't want to harness one that big, I'd need a ladder (and a bigger shovel).   ;D

[sigidi]

 :D ;D Big Shovel  ;D  :D

The referance to Conan - Arnold was called Conan in some old 80's movies and in one he spent his days as a slave walking round in circles around some big mill type thingo, he started with about 10-12 others on the mill thing and after many years, ended up doing it all by himself. Hence my question of a horse named Conan. ;)