kerf

jph · March 05, 2005, 04:27:55 PM

The guy I bought my used LT40 off told me he cut all his hardwood ignoring the kerf, so his 1 inch was in fact 1
inch minus the kerf. He sold it as 1in. Claiming he had raised his productivity by 10%. This seemed a bit like sharp practice to me. Mind you he wanted to charge me an extra $25 for a photo copy of the intruction manual! So if anyone has a scanned copy of a manual for a LT40 about ten years old, they could email me I would appreciate it.
John

Tom · March 05, 2005, 05:03:42 PM

John,
I have done the same thing, but only at the request of the log owner. It was a marketing point, in days of yore, with Wood Mizer and other bandsaw mills that the thinner kerf of the band blade along with its smoothness of cut allowed a 7/8 board to be created that would plane to 3/4.

They were correct, if the board didn't shrink and the man running the planer was DanG'ed good and had a fabulous planer.

It wasn't long that Wood Mizer changed their tack. They even changed the quarter scales to include more than the kerf. It was acknowledged that wholesale buyers of hardwoods weren't interested in boards that were under the 4/4 limits and preferred boards with some "fat" on them.

To provide boards to a customer that will not meet the criteria of the customer is wrong. There is no two ways about. it. To charge for someone else's documentation "proving" that they are in the right is also wrong, in my mind.

When it comes right down to the bottom line, the customers ultimate product is the aim of any and all break-down and finishing procedures leading up to it.

There are rules to protect the sawyer. A board that is 1 1/4 thick, or thicker, is no longer a 4/4 board. But, boards from 4/4, up to 1 1/4 are sold as 4/4 boards. It might seem to some sawyers that they are missing out on dollars by cutting fat boards but they should keep in mind that they are working for that customer and without him they will have NO money.

Boards less than 1" in thickness are also generally sawed for the same price as 1" boards. It's the economics of sawing. there is about as much labor and wear and tear involved as a 4/4 board, so it's only right.

The fellow you bought your mill from was right that he could show you that kind of documentation. What he didn't tell you is that it was always stated that sawing like that should be a marketing device that you discussed with the customer so that he could make the decision whether he wanted more boards or thicker boards. It's never been a "safe" tact to make your customer's mind up for him.

If you put pencil to paper, you will find that you are talking about penny's at the end of the job anyway. It's far more important that you leave the site with a satisfied customer, one that will call you back, than to leave with $5 or $10 more in your pocket and a customer that has useless product

Wood Mizer's manual is quite volumous so you probably don't want someone to send you the whole thing. But those pages explaining sawing ( in the philosophy of those early years) is only a page or so and I'm sure someone will be glad to send you a copy. My manual is out of pocket right now but I have a second copy somewhere. If I can find it, I'll be glad to send you a copy of that page.

I find it hard to believe that the guy that sold you the mill didn't offer you the manual as part of the package rather than try to charge you for a "faxed" page.

Fla._Deadheader · March 05, 2005, 05:12:52 PM

You bought this guys mill, and, he would not furnish you the manual to go with it ?????? Call Woodmizer and see what they say.

When we decided to build our oversized WM, I found a copy on Ebay, for $25.00. It is the complete manual, copied. Not available to anyone, as, we use it occasionally.

Tom · March 05, 2005, 05:23:23 PM

Now that I typed all of that, there is a reason to saw "minus the kerf".

1" boards sawed at 7/8" make good siding boards. Why hang all of that weight on the side of building when you are using rough wood anyway.

2" construction wood (pine etc.) can be cut minus the kerf and still be planed to a good 1 1/2" or 1 5/8" thick "two by".

jph · March 05, 2005, 05:34:16 PM

I have to be careful here, but the chances are if I phone my nearest Woodmizer dealers I will be speaking to the guy that sold me the mill! :-[

Tom · March 05, 2005, 05:48:05 PM

your only an email away from the main office in Indianapolis, Indiana, U.S.A.

I'm sure that a request of confidentiality would be honored and probably a copy of the page of your concern offered as well.

If you already have the mill, I wouldn't worry about some of this old marketing jargon. It's today's efforts that will build your reputation.

Cedarman · March 05, 2005, 06:34:09 PM

I get lots of calls and the person at the other end always asks " how much is your lumber". Before I price, I always find out what they want, how thick, how wide , how long, grade, what they are using it for etc. Knowing the specs, I can now quote a price for exactly what the customer wants. If they want it planed to 3/4, what care they what thickness I start at if they get what they want.

So, if your customer is happy with 7/8, or wants 4/4, or 1 3/16 or whatever, you should have your own price list to cover these things and quickly quote a price that makes you happy also and saves a lot of haggling.

MartyParsons · March 05, 2005, 08:48:59 PM

John,
Most manuals are less than $ 10.00. There are different manuals for engines, options ( Lube -Mizer, Debarker etc) and trailers the $ 10.00 is for the operators manual. They are even listed in French and Spanish. The prices very but none listed is more than $11.00 so a range from $6.50 to $11.00 for each manual.

I e-mailed John if I have the year and revision and engine I can get one on the way.
Marty
PA ASC Wood-Mizer

Fla._Deadheader · March 05, 2005, 08:52:59 PM

Well, there ya go. Another good save by the WM folks. 8) 8) ;D

leweee · March 05, 2005, 09:33:17 PM

Quote from: MartyParsons on March 05, 2005, 08:48:59 PM
John,
Most manuals are less than $ 10.00. There are different manuals for engines, options ( Lube -Mizer, Debarker etc) and trailers the $ 10.00 is for the operators manual. They are even listed in French and Spanish. The prices very but none listed is more than $11.00 so a range from $6.50 to $11.00 for each manual. I e-mailed John if I have the year and revision and engine I can get one on the way.
Marty
PA ASC Wood-Mizer

Got to love service like that 8) 8) 8)

rebocardo · March 06, 2005, 08:54:55 PM

> To provide boards to a customer that will not meet the criteria of the customer is wrong.

Yea, kind of like selling a customer a Ford truck with a 360 cu and telling them its a 390 or a Chevy car with a 267 V-8 and telling them its a 305. You can always cut/plane down a piece of wood, but, it is pretty hard to plane a piece up.

> Claiming he had raised his productivity by 10%.

I bet that guy would be the first to complain about only getting five peanuts in his free air line meal snack. :

When I sell a used $1200 car I put the repair manual I bought for it in the trunk for the new owner. I can't imagine selling a used saw mill without one. I hope you counted your rings and fingers before you left :D

rebocardo · March 06, 2005, 08:56:15 PM

btw, kerf, I love that picture of the pooch, my dog used to hide his head like that when he felt guilty about something.

sparks · March 08, 2005, 08:51:45 AM

JPH if you email me and let me know exactly what manual you need I can email them to you in a PDF format at no charge. You will need Adobe Reader to open them. E mail me at rlauman@woodmizer.com Thanks

MULE_MAN · March 08, 2005, 09:03:34 AM

Spark

Your a good man, & I'm glad your here to help people out 8)

Fla._Deadheader · March 08, 2005, 09:45:59 AM

I second Mule_man's statement. 8) 8)

DanG · March 08, 2005, 09:22:20 PM

Well, there ya go! JPH, you made one simple post on THE ForestryForum, and got TWO Woodmizer reps clamoring to help you out.

8)

8) Look's like you came to the right place!

How's things in Wales? My family left there about 300 years ago, but I still feel a kinship. I just gotta go there, someday!

jph · March 09, 2005, 12:38:44 PM

Many thanks for the help with the lt40 manual.

Dang. I love Wales, here in the south east of England there are just too many people, we are lucky as we inherited some land from my parents who were small time chicken farmers. We built our house and we share the land with my sister who lives next door in a small thatched cottage. Our family have been here since 1928 so my routes go deep and it would be very difficult to move. My wifes family are from Mid Wales where they run a 400 acre sheep farm.. Trudi and I are in the process of buying 60 acres of woodland in two lots quite near their farm. Life there is much slower and people have time for one another, it is a great place with rolling hills and plenty of sheep.