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Where to Get Custom Moulding Knives Ground

Started by FeltzE, February 28, 2005, 06:44:55 PM

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FeltzE

I have a logosol, and an RBI (like a woodmaster), and most recently a Stetson Ross XL mouldmatcher (which isn't set up yet and may not be untill late this year)

I need to get knives ground to match 2 different 5 inch antique moulding profiles. One is a base board molding the other is a door casing.

Previousely I have only used OEM knives out of a catalog.

Being I will be doing these casings for my little brother I really don't want to invest any more than I need to. Should I say be a little thrifty? And I'd rather run the stock through the logosol as I can start with RC and do it all in one pass. But in the end getting it done is more important...

I guess I'm talking in circles today, but I need to get started with a good grinder preferably without any middle man as I've found some of these suppliers tend to be...

Eric


TnAndy

I have a Williams Hussy and the best place I've found is Mouldingknives.com   Canadian outfit, small and has done me a real good job.  I've had them make several different custom knives by sending a cutting of the moulding or a drawing of what I want.
Price, quality, service....
    Pick any two

ronwood

FeltzE,

I know this is a bit of the subject but I was wondering how you like your Logosol. How does the Logosol compare the Stetson Ross XL mouldmatcher?

I will call my friend in the morning. He has had some work done by a shop here in St. Louis. Will see if I can get their number.

Ron
Sawing part time mostly urban logs -St. Louis/Warrenton, Mo.
LT40HG25 Woodmizer Sawmill
LX885 New Holland Skidsteer

FeltzE

Ron,

It's too early to tell at the moment. I've got to get the machine up and running first.

With only 1ph power in the shop I've got to get a converter, and commercial electrician first which may cost as much as $3000. Then I've either got to get the cutter heads repaired, or replaced. It looks like the cutter heads have experienced some minor damage along the top of the corregation.

Then I need gibs, and blades. So I may be as much as $5000 from the first piece of wood through the XL Mouldmatcher. Replacement 1 1/4" spindle - 6" long heads are about $450 each the side heads about $150 each. Blades at $20/inch  thats $120 for the top $120 for the botom, then $80 for each side minimum.....


UGH! 

Eric

ronwood

FeltzE

My friend had some blades made by a small company called Hot Knives 1-800-854-5773. He thought they were reasonable.

Still working on getting my 3 phase into my shop. Pole and transformers are set. Getting the list of materails together for pricing when I put the service in.

Ron



Sawing part time mostly urban logs -St. Louis/Warrenton, Mo.
LT40HG25 Woodmizer Sawmill
LX885 New Holland Skidsteer

FeltzE

Ron,

Horselogger mentioned to me off line that "value added processing" can be a never ending rotational cash flow, always needing something...

Ok that's somewhat paraphrased, don't shoot me...

Simply put, the logosol was an easy unit to buy, I got the single phase unit at the expence of 1 hp per cutter head, which made installation a snap, added a 22ov line and plug, made a set of wheels for the machine, hooked up vacume.

This mouldmatcher is going to be expencive to get running, need one starter, need 3 ph electric, need blades, gibs, probably cutterheads too. and not one of the items will be inexpencive!

Then soon as it's up, forget running flooring, no money in that from what I hear except for custom applications, start looking for that specialty run, and connections to restoration projects where I can charge a fair price for the effort and knives...

Eric

ronwood

Eric,

Is there any particular reason that you bought another molder. If I find enough work I thought of getting the 3 phase logosol unit.  I am a bit concerned on how durable it would be.  Would be doing it only partime.

Also I know what you talking about on items not being inexpensive. All the prices of the 3 phase electrical equipment seems to be about three times the price of single phase. Still think it won't be to bad.  Should end up cheaper than putting in a roto phase especially since I am putting a 200 amp 208volts service. I am going with the 208 option from the power comapny so that I can get 115 single phase from the transformer on the pole.

Ron

Sawing part time mostly urban logs -St. Louis/Warrenton, Mo.
LT40HG25 Woodmizer Sawmill
LX885 New Holland Skidsteer

FeltzE

Ron, I'll drop you a line off the forum.

Eric

NESL_Supply

Check with one of the local moulding makers, especially a small shop, they are usually very helpfull, they may slap the knives on a grinder and grind them up for you right there, it is only a 5 minute job for an experienced grinder, it sounds like you are looking for a touch up on the knives you have??, all they have to do is skim the surface and your good for thousands more feet, unless your runnin teak or something :-[
Hope that was helpfull, i ran moulders for years out of MA, rex LBR, weinig 23E, 22H, and 22al models, did my share of grinding as well, Take care

FeltzE

I'd love to learn to grind my own knives, just a little nervous about giving it a try with out having someone to mentor me....

I'd hate to have shards of knife permanently embedded in my rafters...


Eric

Jason_WI

http://www.cggschmidt.com/

The profiles I ordered were standard and were for my RBI planer. Fast and friendly.

Jason
Norwood LM2000, 20HP Honda, 3 bed extentions. Norwood Edgemate edger. Gehl 4835SXT

trim4u2nv

You can buy a phase convertor for about $600.00 on ebay big enough to run this moulder.  Add up your total horsepower and get a converter with that much power.  I built one from a kit for about $85.00 from a company called niagra.  It was 10hp I just supplied the motor and electrical cabinet.  Lately though I hear they have many items on backorder.  Niagra rotary convertor worked  fine until I had 3ph installed.  As for knives try cayce company and woodworkers tool works.  Buy all your 3ph parts on ebay you will save a lot of money.

FeltzE

Trim,

I looked on ebay as well, the minimum hp phase converter I would be able to use is a 20 hp unit. The moulder is considered a high load start, with the largest motor being 10 hp, that alone would require a 20 hp unit (minimum) with the addition of a 5 hp and 1 1/2 hp motors that brings it to a normal current load for 16.5 hp. The units on ebay were running $1300-1800 for the 20 and 30 hp units

One thing I'm sure of is that I'd rather go larger than I need than get it all in and find I'm running at the max capacity of the unit... Who knows maybe I'll find a 3 ph gang saw to run in parralel with the moulder one day. (room to grow)

Eric

NESL_Supply

Quote from: FeltzE on March 02, 2005, 09:18:21 PM
I'd love to learn to grind my own knives, just a little nervous about giving it a try with out having someone to mentor me....

I'd hate to have shards of knife permanently embedded in my rafters...


Eric


Unless you are going to be running a huge operation it is not worth it to grind, it is cheap enough to buy the pre-ground knives, It takes a long time to learn to grind, and one twinge in your wrist could ruin the whole template. I can't see a knife exploding like that, they are usually pretty durable, although i have had a few come through the side of a moulders fiberglass hood   :o , darn kid learnin to grind didn't tighten the gibs enough!   >:(

trim4u2nv

An alternative is order a panel around $299 and supply your own 20hp motor (ebay)
or use the kit completed by the seller (niagra) or ebay seller destructionkilla

http://www.3-phaseconverter.com/Converter_Control_Panel.html

I looked up specs on exfactory.com and you could probably run a stetson ross moldmaster on a 15hp converter unless you run it really hard (deep s4s or wide crown.)  You would probably max out your service entrance breaker before you overloaded the idler motor, unless you have a 200amp service.   The main thing with a moulder on a phase converter is start your biggest motor first.  If you have to stop with the top and bottom head buried in a cut, back the stick out and restart.  Also it helps if you connect your starter holding coils across the 2 utility supplied lines not the wild leg of the converter (if you use the same line voltage on the coils and motors.)

I ran a small mattison 272 2x4 moulder with about the same hp on a 10hp converter with no probems.  The key is to find one of those old heavy duty motors like ge and allis chalmers made with all the extra iron.  The idler motor barely got warm to the touch under full load.  I still have that motor on a 16 inch jointer.

I also outsource my knives.  Couldn't do as good a job without CNC grinder. 

FeltzE

Trim,

I took a look at the site, .. looks interesting I've got a 15 hp motor on a blower unit out back I could scrounge, TFEC could anchor a medium boat. I'm no 3 ph electrician though...

If that unit comes with adequate instructions I may pick one up put it together then have an electrician check it out before I put power to it...

Eric

FeltzE

That Niagra site is by far the least expensive alternative for phase converters that I've found (looking for the last several weeks)

Their 20hp model is just under $1000, and a 15 hp was $675, just a build up kit for a you provide the motor they provide the panel is just over $239

I've sent them an email for more information to find what additional installation materials (starters) and circuits may be required.

Thanks Trim...

Eric

trim4u2nv

I had  a good experience with the ebay kit.  However lately I've heard they were backordered on switches and this may delay shipment for 2-3 weeks.  Unless you want to supply your own switch.  Be sure to ask if any items are backordered with the kit--if you dont want to wait.   

woodhick

Feltz,  Check with   WOOD TECH ENTERPRISES INC .  They are located in Fairview NC.  I'm preety sure they do custom grinding.  I have bought shaper cutter off of them at the Greensboro Woodworking show earlier this month. ;)
Woodmizer LT40 Super 42hp Kubota, and more heavy iron woodworking equipment than I have room for.

woodhick

I should have given number.  It's 1-800-TOOLING. ;D
Woodmizer LT40 Super 42hp Kubota, and more heavy iron woodworking equipment than I have room for.

FeltzE

I'm going to take a ride out to those guys and have them take a look at my cutter heads, see if they can be repaired.

I need gibbs, and some dings worked out or maybe just a new set of cutters... ouch..

Eric

farmerdoug

I use to cruise the newsgroup Rec. Metalworking.  I say I use to as Aol no longer allows access directly to non AOL newsgroups. >:(
The guys on there can help you figure out how to convert a 3 PH motor into a phase converter.  :P Some of the guys could tell you exactly what capacitors you would need and how to wire it up.  They pride themselves on doing it to get 3 PH power.  I just discovered AOL's change and now I will have to go third party to get to my favorite newsgroups.  I was going to ask them for you but I guess you will have to go yourself for now unless you have AOL too. ::)
Doug
Truck Farmer/Greenhouse grower
2001 LT40HDD42 Super with Command Control and AccuSet, 42 hp Kubota diesel
Fargo, MI

trim4u2nv

I built the niagra rpc kit in about 3 hours for a 10hp.  Slightly different relays but essentially the same thing.

http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/phase-converter/3-phase.pdf

On metalweb there is a pretty good writeup similar to the one I built.

http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/phase-converter/

also try

http://www.owwm.com

The advantage of the kit is all the parts are in 1 place and cheaper than driving around rounding them up.




trim4u2nv


FeltzE

I think I'll end up buying a niagra kit or complete setup, just to make sure I don't burn the shop down....

Thanks

trim4u2nv

Checked on the site owwm.com and several people have waited over a month for kits.  The company may be in trouble (which supplied the kits.)  You may want to shop elsewhere.  Ebay feedback is buyer destructionkilla if you want to check.

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