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"River" log question. Fla. D. ?

Started by ellmoe, February 22, 2005, 08:51:07 PM

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Paschale

I found something on the web as well about "neutrally-bouyant" logs that sit just below the surface of the water.  They're waterlogged, yet they don't seem to float on the surface, nor sink to the bottom.  I found it on a boating safety site.  All I can say is that now I'm just really intrigued!   ???

Oh...and in my research on water-logged logs, I first came across the term "deadheaders" as the appropriate term for these logs, thus, explaining Fla_Deadheaders name.  See...all along I just thought FDH was a big fan of the Grateful Dead!   :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Jerry Garcia, RIP.    ;)
Y'all can pronounce it "puh-SKOLLY"

Ron Scott

Yes, there are various degrees of bouyancy to the logs depending upon their density. Hardwoods will sink faster than softwoods. Various elements will move them around beneath the water surface, i.e. storms, ice, underwater currents, overhead ship traffic, divers moving them, etc.

Also, some log decks were transported chained to the decks of schooners (lumber hookers) barges, scows, etc. They may break loose over time and float to the surface. I've had bottom logs that were held down by others on top break loose and start floating at different depths. They move quite easily in deep water when broken free. It may be possible for some to occasionally surface at least partially, especially a softwood that was held down by other hardwoods.

~Ron

Paschale

That's interesting Ron...I recall that all of the logs my friend has retrieved have been pine or some other softwood...I think some hemlocks as well.  We might be getting to the bottom of this mystery!
Y'all can pronounce it "puh-SKOLLY"

Rockn H

Now yall have me interested.  Here in se ark any floating log whether it be cut or eroded is simply considered river salvage.  At least local authorities and land owners (seem to treat it as so).  Although an ecological group, through a court order, was able to stop  one diver from retreiving sinker logs off the bottom.  What I,m trying to say is now I have to research and see if our practices are legal here or just overlooked.  Anyone know arkansas law?

MemphisLogger

Quote from: Paschale on February 23, 2005, 06:39:35 PM
Oh...and in my research on water-logged logs, I first came across the term "deadheaders" as the appropriate term for these logs, thus, explaining Fla_Deadheaders name.  See...all along I just thought FDH was a big fan of the Grateful Dead!   :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Jerry Garcia, RIP.    ;)

I thought the same thing 'til he never responded to any of my allusions . . .  ;)
Scott Banbury, Urban logger since 2002--Custom Woodworker since 1990. Running a Woodmizer LT-30, a flock of Huskies and a herd of Toy 4x4s Midtown Logging and Lumber Company at www.scottbanbury.com

Cedarman

I'll take a guess as to why logs start floating after a storm.  First the logs are at near equilibrium with the density of the water. A storm stirs the water up. Water is densest at just a few degrees above freezing I believe. So if a storm stirs cold winter water to the depths of the logs replacing the slightly less dense warmer water, then the logs could start to float.  What season of the year do storms dislodge the most logs?
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Cedarman

Another thought.  If the logs have started to decay just a little, then there may be a small amount of CO2 buildup, thus reducing the density of the log.
The storm moves the log, freeing it to float. If there is very little oxygen then the process could produce methane gas such as in a land fill.

Waiting for the real answer. :P :P
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Jeff

Cedarman yer pretty smart! :)  Both sound like acceptable answers. Maybe we should look up bill warren and see what he thinks? :D ;D

Old joke.

this might help explain.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=1165.0
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Tom

I like Pecan Logs best but peanuts are pretty good too. ;D

DanG

M R ok, but I just never cared much for cheese logs.

Jeeze, I'm hungry.  Think I'll eat some supper.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Fla._Deadheader

  Ahhhhh, NOW my expertise is requested, EH ???  ;D :D :D :D :D

 I will try to start with the original question. We do NOT pay footage, stumpage, or any other age. We pay $5500.00 EACH YEAR, + $1500.00 for Liability Insurance, so THE STATE is covered, NOT US. >:( >:(

 We also pay $500.00 for every 5 years, for every 20 mile stretch of river.

 Of course, the Govt. just sits back, regulates the crap out of us, tells us what we can't do, what we SHOULD do. Where we can't log, how we do it, when we do it.

 If a log has a Brand from the guy that cut it down, We MUST drag it in, call the Sheriff, he will ARREST the log, Supposedly search for the legal owner, OR any of his heirs. If that all goes for naught, he then can SELL the log, to pay his expenses for searching for the owner. WE GET the Vaseline, again. >:(

 We have NO rights. Someone can call, because we look suspicious, and the Marine Police, Fish & game Warden, local cops, Marines, Coast Guard and any other glory seeking govt, goldbricker, Can harrass us all they want.

 If a log has been "altered", meaning change it's original appearance, like sharpening for driving as a piling, Cut as a cant, has holes drilled in it, has ANY metal on it OR in it, or any other stupid thing you can think of, we cant take it. If its stuck in the roots of a tree, along the riverbank, even though the tree will eventually fall into the river, we can't take it.

 Anybody want to buy a water logging operation.  We CAN tell ya how to get around most of this stuff.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

 Because of the Density, there is very little air in the cells of the log. They BARELY float. Like Ron Scott stated, if a raft of logs go down, once the raft breaks apart, from years of submergance, or the Teredo worms eat enough log away, SOME logs CAN re-float, but, just at water level, not bobbing like buoys. Sometimes, with a little wave action, you might see a "VEE" like wake, from where the water washes over the end of the log. Sometimes, the larger end of the log has slightly more "Buoyancy", than the small end, and MIGHT be seen, breaking the surface occasionally.

 I wood bet, that any state that has sinkers, will be looking into getting all the money they can, from anyone trying to make a buck, with "State" logs.

 Hardwood logs probably will not re-float. Logs underwater are not very heavy. A diver can usually lift one end of a 24" dia. log. When you get ready to break the surface, THAT'S when they get heavy.

 Corley 5 should have a good story to post when he gets back home. We had a ball with him, today. Great guy.  You will especially appreciate his rendition of "Cat".  ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D   My fingers hurt.  ::) ::) :D :D :D :D

 
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Jeff

I'm glad to hear you enjoyed your visit with Greg. Hes a good bud now. Greg lives not to far away as forum members go, only an hour and a half. I really enjoy when ever we get together. In fact, we are about due.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

sigidi

Wow FDH,

it really sounds like a lot of hassle and outlay for possibly a whole heap of nothing, you got ya underwater gear on top of the already mentioned expenses too.

Do ya make any kind of living out of it? (I'm not scheming to come over and edge you out - I'm fraid of going underwater) but just asking.
Always willing to help - Allan

Fla._Deadheader


  No worries, Mate !!!  We just do this for sport.  ::) ::) :D :D :D :D

  Best way to make1 million $$$ doing something, is, start with 2 million $$$. ;D :D :D :D :D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

ellmoe

Harold/ Ron/ et al,
 
   Thanks for thr replies, information, and speculation!  :) Being blessed with two teenaged sons, my computer has been "out of service" and I'm just getting back on line. I'll pass this info on, and try to find out why the interest. I don't known the current status of tree salvage in Ga., but it looks like the State will be wanting their "share" ( and maybe then some).
    Thanks again.
Mark
Thirty plus years in the sawmill/millwork business. A sore back and arthritic fingers to prove it!

Furby

Paschale,
Does your friend still have any of the log ends showing the marks?
I think someone here at the forum has mentioned this book before, but you can order it at the library if you want to take a look.


Michigan Log Marks, Their Function And Use During The Great Michigan Pine Harvest by Clifford Allen.

Fla._Deadheader


  Mark, I would be interested in knowing what they are thinking.  There are MANY MANY logs in the St. Marys River, on the Ga., Fl. line.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Paschale

Jason,

He made one of the log ends into a rustic end table/coffee table that still has the mark.  He's up in the U.P. though, so I won't see it until this summer.   ::)

Dan
Y'all can pronounce it "puh-SKOLLY"

ellmoe

Harold,
   Work overcame my "free" time today so I did not speak with anyone. If my "brickwall soften head "will remember Monday, I will call them then. I'll let you know what's up.
Mark
Thirty plus years in the sawmill/millwork business. A sore back and arthritic fingers to prove it!

Fla._Deadheader

All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

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