making Ripping Chain

[ontario026]

I just bought a 30" bar and chain for my stihl 044 in preparation to purchase an alaskan mill to do some low volume 'hobby milling' sometime in the future...  My question is what kind of chain makes a good ripping chain once appropriately filed?

The chain that came with the bar was an Oregon 75LP/JP (super 70), and is a full skip chisel chain that has the "bumper drive links for reduced kickback"                                                                  http://www.oregonchain.ca/products/sawchain/38.shtm#
The chain I am talking about is shown in the 4th from the top picture at the link provided...
Does this chain have potential for making a decent ripping chain?  Or should I keep it as a regular chain for using when I need the big bar for felling and buy something else to make a ripping chain? 

If this chain is unsuitable what should I look for in a chain to make into a ripping chain?

Thanks
Matthew

[Avalancher]

The chain should work fine for ripping, just grind the top plate to 10 degrees and see how she works. You might want to consider using a shorter bar for ripping though, a 30 inch uses a lot of power just to pull around the bar and you will find that you are going to need POWER for milling. I use 5 different bars on my logosol, and go with the shortest bar I can get away with. With a 30 inch you are pushing the envelope too on keeping that bar lubed, might want to condsider an auxillary oiler at the roller tip. It will be kind of difficult using an auxillary on an alaska type of milling setup

[leweee]

Matthew....that link you posted will show you Oregons ripping chain just click on saw chain at the bottom of the page. ;D Us oldtimers just take square corner chisel chain and grind the top plate 90 degrees with a hook angle of 55 degrees. Use semi or full skip if you use a long bar, small power head combination. Happy milling.

[KiwiCharlie]

Hi Matthew,
If you are going to be 'hobby milling', then I would keep the chain you have for cross cutting, which you will wnat to be doing anyway, and buy a loop of rip chain.  Oregon do the 27RA (.404 skip sequence) which I use, and its a great grind.  Its on the Oregon site under Specialty Chains.  They also do a 3/8 in the standard sequence.
Take it easy on your 044, and make sure youre getting plenty of oil to the bar.  Youll have fun Im sure! ;D
Cheers,
Charlie.

[devo]

Hey Mathew I see we live in the same neck of the woods. If you need ripping chain, or anything else saw related go see Clarke Code small engines in Oxford Mills. He really knows his stuff, and has the best prices I've found around here.

[rebocardo]

I have been using the ripping chain from Bailey's, the 3/8 low profile full comp done 10 degrees. I tried to make some ripping chain myself.  Other then wrecking two chains that still had life in them, I learned a grinder might have helped since it took a lot of time for me to destroy my two chains with hand filing  :D

[sawmillsi]

Hi Matthew,

My family business has been involved with slabbing for the past 25 years or so and all of it with chainsaw slabbing.

We use .404" chain (cause we use big powerheads - and I busted a 3/8 chain on our STIHL 088), but I would strongly reccomend that you stick to the 3/8 chain as your saw is real small (the STIHL 044 is a professional saw).

We also grind the top plate back to either 10-15 degrees adn the side angle to around 55 degrees. We normally use the 27RX Oregon chain pattern (404 with 5 cutters missing, then 2 cutters, then 5 missing, repeated) with great success.

The reason I said chain pattern is that the Oregon chain is at least 2 times more expensive then if I get regular chain and grind the cutters out myself with a angle grinder and the chain held in a bar in a vise.

I am carefull not to grind into the side plates (other wise the chain would be fataly weakend).

I would not modify the chain they have supplied as it has the 'full chisel' or square corner cutters that make it more prone to bluntening, we only use the half chisel or half square - more resiliant.

The other thing is that we normally grind the chains (sharpen on our Oregon bench mounted grinder) so the difference between the cutters and the depth gauge is not so big - makes a finer cut.

Good luck

Si

[KiwiCharlie]

Hi Si,
By filing the side to 55 deg, does this give you a good surface finish on the slabs?  I would expect so.  I havent used the RX, but would like to give a loop a try.  Details on the rip chains by Oregon are hard to come by.
Any chain with less cutters to file sounds good to me!  :D
Cheers
Charlie.

[sawmillsi]

Charlie,

People all around Australia say that the finish we acheive is better than most bandsaws.

Talk to Petersons (link on the left) for information on where to get the original oregon chain, or you can midify the chain like we do.

Si

[Dan_Shade]

Si,



To clarify, you file Angle "A" at 10-15 degrees, and Angle "B" at 50 degrees?

[Ernie]

Great advice guys, particularly the diagram.  Now I know why I had so much trougle using my Alaskan on the eucs when I was making my floor.

Thanks again

Ernie

[KiwiCharlie]

Hi Dan,
I hope you havent been out in the shed trying to file that!!! ;)  Related to your picture, I think what Si was saying is file the "top plate filing angle" to 10-15 deg, and the "side plate angle" to 55 deg.  The RA chain comes out of the box with this at 75 deg.
Normally on rip chain (and most cross cut chains too) you would use the "file guide angles - B" as 10 deg.  Does any of this make sense!! :D
The art of chain grinding is a big learning curve, and I know I have plenty more to learn.  Right now, I just dont get the time to devote to it.
I thought I should post here in case Si is on a plane to Angola!  He can fill us in with heaps more info Im sure.
Cheers
Charlie.

[KiwiCharlie]

This is what Granberg does to their chain, different approach again.  They take almost all the top plate off to form 2 scoring cutters, filed to 20deg, and then the full cutter filed at 0deg comes through and takes the rest.
Now lets see if can upload a picture!...  Size might be a problem to see properly.


Charlie

[Dan_Shade]

I normally use "A" of 0 degrees, and "B" of -10 degrees

the side plate angle measurement confuses me!

I've found with chain filing, it's easier to just do it, than think about it.  but every little bit of improvement helps for ripping

[KiwiCharlie]

Dan,
Now you got me confused!  With regard to A and B, arent they showing the same thing, ie looking down the bar/chain and the recommendation for the particular chain you have is to file across it at either 90deg (A) or 10deg (B)?
Charlie.

[Dan_Shade]

haha, man, was I tired last night....

ok, I'll have to get a better picture, but I file ripping chain at 90* to the bar length, and at 10 degrees down from the end view...

basically straight across the top, and the file angled down slightly...


I file it pretty much like in your picture, with the scoring links without the top plates maintaining a heavier angle.

I also got a grangerg file holding fixture that clamps to the bar, makes it a lot nicer to get it "trued" up.

[KiwiCharlie]

Hi Dan,
Yep, thats the one!  ;) :D  Ive tended to use the RA chain straight from the box, but when people talk of the mods they make, I would like to try them, in case Im missing out on the 'ultimate' rip chain! ;D  I guess for ripping especially we are always looking for the best grind.
Charlie.

[Kevin]

I'm with Charlie on this one, ripping chain out of the box.
Stihl or Oregon.

[redpowerd]

i understand that grinding the top plate destroyes the integriedy of the chain with the heat?

[Dan_Shade]

if it doesn't turn blue, it didn't get too hot (at least that's my opinion).  I made a 325 rip chain with a file and my jig, took some time, but I did it.

Where do you guys get your rip chain? specifically, the oregon or the stihl chain?

[Kevin]

I get 72 and 73RA here in town.
RD is also available.

[sawmillsi]

Hi guys

I have heard that Oregon will make almost anything you ask of them (bt it gets real expensive real quick).

I also prefer to get a chain out of the box and use it but when it costs 2 - 3 times more than doing it your self, no thanks.

When I sharpen my chains, I almost always use our bench mounted chain grinder (Oregon of course) and to ensure accuraccy I check most of the top plates with a set of digital vernier calipers (doesn't take too long). On a Peterson DWS slabbing chain there are about 191 drive links (bloody long chain), don't want it to cut up or down.

The top plate angle is set between 10-15 degrees and the side plate angle about 55 degrees.

When I am in the feild and need a touch up, I use a 5mm round chainsaw file and follow the angle set by the grinder (top plate) and don't worry about the side plate angle (not much I can do about it).

Dan, leave angle A and B out of it and look at the diagram you posted. Find the top plate and side plate pictures. These will help the most.

Kiwicharlie, I see that we beat NZ in the cricket! We have also tried that pattern (we call it a cutter and raker pattern, similar to a cross-cut saw), but we still like the 27RX better.

I won't be heading bake for a couple of months, got to sort out some things here and buy some sawmilling equipment to take back.

Simon

[KiwiCharlie]

Hi Simon,
A couple of questions.
1.  Do you set the side plate angle via the grinder you use?  Ive seen an angle gauge used (Malloffs book) but Im not sure if thats on his grinder or is a stand alone tool.
2.  Are you using the digi vernier to make sure the top plates are all the same length?
3.  Does the 27RX come out of the box with the skip pattern you mention, or do you grind out the cutters yourself?

Dont talk to me about the cricket - they got me steaming mad Saturday night.  Talk about giving the match away!  We needed 16 runs off 14 balls to win and still managed to loose!  >:( >:(
I know its only sport ( - wash my mouth out with soap!), but when its NZ vz OZ it takes on a whole new meaning!  ;)
Cheers,
Charlie

[sawmillsi]

Charlie,

I was ready your post thinking yeah, ok etc... then I got to the cricket - couldn't stop laughing!!!!!!!!

Ewes kiwis should stop throwing things at our guys on the field.

Answers

1. Yes. Then the standard STIHL file guide (we use) have 30 degrees and 15 degrees stamped onto then - just line the marks up with the bar and off you go.

2. Yes. Different length top plates with influence the direction of cut. I use a cheap set of calipers though.

3. I'm sure its 27RX (the skip tooth pattern I was talking about), but might be 27RA. If you go to your local chainsaw shop (who sells Oregon chain) and ask to see their spec book, it will have the details there.

NB. The tooth pattern is called 'extended skip'.

If you want a fact sheet we send to our customers on how to modify chainsaw chain (or if the administrators feel like telling me how) I can post it or send it to you.

Simon

[oldsaw]

Sounds like kind of a different approach.  I'm all ears.