iDRY Vacuum Kilns

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DH4000/L200 help

Started by Paul_H, February 17, 2005, 08:36:50 PM

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Paul_H

I loaded the kiln today and when I pressed the switch to start it,the lights on the panel came on momentarily and shut off again.The fan must have tried to start because it was still spinning when I went into the chamber.

I messed a bit with the switch and could keep the panel lit up for long enough to see that the temp in the kiln was 65 F and the RH was set at 95.
The outside temps have been hovering around 28 F here for the last week and the chamber was probably at around 32 F this morning.

I have a small heater in the unit inside the kiln right now and have a small light bulb in the box that houses the controller to warm things up.

Any ideas?
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Furby

Don't know anything about kilns, but it sounds like a moisture overload.

My clothes dryer in the house did something like that a couple weeks ago. Temp was around freezing with lots of humidity. It would work while I held the switch in, then blow the ground fault. Worked fine after a couple days with out doing anything to it.
I figure something picked up a little too much moisture.

Paul_H

Furby,
I had trouble with our dryer just before Christmas and it was doing much the same thing and after a lot of checking,it turned out that the bearings in the motor were dry.I repacked them and it has been good since.
With that in mind,I checked the fan motor on the kiln and it spins easily.

When I turn the system switch on,I can hear it try to start up but then the switch wont stay in the on position,it's as if it cams over and when I let it go it goes into the off position.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Furby

Hmmm, sorry don't think I can help ya then.
I'm thinking I better check that motor though, Thanks! ;)

Paul_H

Update:

I phoned Nyle this morning and talked to Stan and he recommended that we try a few checks to pinpoint the problem.
So,following Stan's advice we took the top cover off of the control box and disconnected the #6 wire that runs the blower motor in the DH unit. When we turned on the system switch,everything worked as it should so we replaced the #6 wire and moved to the DH unit in the kiln chamber and removed the motor.

The connections were fine so we swapped capacitors from one of the  circulating fans.Flipped the system switch and the motor(fan blade removed) started and ran smoothly so we figured that the problem was the capacitor but when we bolted the motor back in and put the fan back on the shaft the switch tripped again.

Now were looking for a new motor.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Paul_H

It looks like I'm going to have to wait for awhile to get the new motor.It is a Marathon motor and Marathon won't send one to our supplier UAP/NAPA.

Marv from WM in Salmon Arm BC is running around like a madman trying to fast track one to me so I'm hoping he can source one for early next week.I phoned my customer and broke the news to him and got a long silence,followed by an equally long sigh ::)

I might have to haywire something in the short term to get these next few loads done.

If any of you electricians have some ideas,I'm all ears.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

devo

I think Princess Auto sells Maraton motors, don't know if they could get it to ya any quicker though
Crazy enough to try it! (once)

Den Socling

Is it one of those 'single use' designs? I take it that it is not a NEMA frame.

IMO That is one crummy excuse of a control system. I hate it when a motor or solenoid valve or such knocks a whole system dead. When you leave out individual fuses and overloads, you're getting too cheap.

Paul_H

Thanks Devo,

I should have mentioned that the motor is rated for high temps and there is a problem with it being a proprietary # so marathon can't ship. I'm not familiar with the term but for some reason they won't send to NAPA.

I'll try Princess Auto.

Thanks
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Paul_H

I missed your post Den,
here is all the info I could find on the motor

Marathon
Mod 9VM48C17F22E  P   
1/3 HP, 60 HZ, 1725 RPM

FR-48  PH-1 type SCS
F/A 6.0/3.0  Code - L   enc -tefc
Amb - 40 deg C  INS -B3
Duty - cont



Does any of this shed  light on the reason they won't ship? I wonder if the problem is heat alone or is it a special mounting problem.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

devo

Paul I can't see anything special about that motor.  FR-48 is a fairly common frame, and 40 deg C is standard. Only one is the insulation class, I'm not familiar with. As long as you match the HP, RPM, frame, and voltage any generic motor should get you by. Make shure it is tefc though. (totaly enclosed - fan cooled)
Crazy enough to try it! (once)

Paul_H

Thanks devo ,that helps a lot.

I'll see what I can roust up this weekend.My customer is understanding because he knows how it goes but his customers aren't quite so good in that department  ::)

I just heard from Marv at WM again and he is going to see if Marathon will help out a little bit here.I'd rather pay a huge airfreight bill than lose this customer.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

raycon

Looked in a McMaster Carr catalog.
They list a motor meeting your specs for $128 US dollars.

Capcacitor Start - Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled  (TEFC) - NEMA frame 48 - 1/3 HP 1725 RPM
Insulation Rating B or Higher.

part # in the McMaster Carr catalog I have is 5990k65.

Theres some other options for the motor available. McMaster Carr down here will get it to you next day -- except weekends. Bit late for yah.

Search McMaster Carr and you'll find there online catalog -- which probably has more current pricing.
Lot of stuff..

Paul_H

Thank you Raycon.

I'll have a look and see what the shipping arangements might be.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Paul_H

I just ordered that motor from Mcmaster and hopefully will see it by Wednesday and in the mean time I will try to get one here Monday from a local supplier so I may end up with a spare.If I do,I'll let you know in case anybody here has the same problem sometime.It might save a few days.

Thanks

Paul
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Don_Lewis

The motor is available from Nyle. There are a number of makes that have a version that will work. Baldor has it as a catalog motor. The motor must have ball bearings and have a service factor of 1.35. If you have the same motor with a service factor of 1.15 you should use a 1/3 HP motor. But always a totally enclosed, ball bearing motor. Also, and this is very important...it must NOT be internally protected. If the one you get has internal protection, send it back.

Paul_H

Thanks for the help Don.
I went back and looked at the motor I ordered and the service factor is 1.00 and it has now internal overload protection. The motor is a 1/3 HP and I'm hoping it will work.(?)
I had no luck matching a motor from Princess Auto this weekend but will still try to source one locally tomorrow from another supplier and see if I can have the kiln running by Tuesday morning.

If not,I'll order the spare through WM or Nyle and put it on my shelf.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Don_Lewis

The  internally protected motors trip out at kiln temperatures so you may find your high pressure safety tripping. That is a manual reset. The motor resets itself when it cools off a little so sometimes you don't catch it when off. But the HP safety will trip telling you that it had been off.  (since you had a fan motor problem, it is probably tripped now.) 1.0 service factor (cheaper) motors run hotter and this makes the situation worse. You don't have a safety issue but you do have a nuisance issue. See how it goes. If you can get by, you can order a motor by ground. Just keep the temperature down to fairly low temps, 100 or so and you might be okay temporarily 

Paul_H

Don,
I see I made a typo on my last post,it should have said the motor has no internal protection.All the information shared on this thread helped immensely when talking on the phone to the suppliers this morning.

I managed to find a motor today that has a 1.35 service factor and no internal protection.I should have it in my hands at around 4 pm today.

I'm really happy about that 8)
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Paul_H

Got the motor this afternoon at 4:30 and pulled it out of the box.

Strike one - not tefc
strike two - internally protected

I had all the info from this thread printed out and read him the specs over the phone.I stressed tefc and that it was not to be internally protected.I asked if he wanted me to fax the page down to him.He told me he didn't need it...

"uh huh, uh huh,all standard stuff,straight forward,can I have your credit card number please"
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

devo

I'll bet he got the credit card part right though.  :-\
Crazy enough to try it! (once)

OneWithWood

Make sure you get a 100% refund.  If it is any consolation he still has to pay the discount on the transaction both ways. >:(
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

Paul_H

Yeah,he had no problem with the card #  ;)

OWW,
It's going to cost us both a bit,I'm out the $25 freight. I phoned him this morning and after a little bit of head butting I think that we have the right motor coming for the late afternoon.Had to remind him that I had all the specs ready to fax yesterday but he had declined.

I'm still expecting the other motor from McMaster today or tomorrow.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Paul_H

Went out this morning and dropped of the motor to be shipped back to Vancouver and when I got home there was a note from the Puralator guy that said he was there at 11:07 am and that I could pick up the package at the local depot.
Went into town at 4:30 and picked up both motors from the two different depots.Both were identical and made by Leeson and all specs were correct.

The motor from California that was shipped Monday morning,beat the local supplier by 5 1/2 hours. The McMaster supplied motor was $122 US and the Vancouver supplied motor was $228 Cdn.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Paul_H

I installed the new motor this morning and flipped the system switch without the fan on the motor and everything worked fine. Bolted the fan on,flipped switch again and nothing,nada back to square one (need a smiley with blood dripping out the nose)

It turns out that it may be the system switch itself so I ordered a couple from Nyle shipped overnight and I really hope I see them in the morning.

I now have two spare motors so if anybody ever cooks a motor and are in a bind let me know and I'll overnight it to you and you can replace it at your leisure.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

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