New to the business, looking for some direction

snoogins · February 04, 2005, 12:44:57 AM

Hey everyone. I just joined this site while searching on the internet and I must say I'm impressed. I feel I must give a little introduction to myself before I say too much more.

Currently I'm a student attending high school and it's my senior year. The last 5 years I've been in the landscaping business working for myself and will go to college next year to pursue a business degree. I'm an active FFA member and participate in our chapter's Forestry Competition Team.

I've been thinking more and more about getting a job working for a logger around here lately, mostly because I'm taking a forestry class in school and have been a little more motivated to get a job in the industry than ever before. I know I can't start at the top and I know it will take me a while to be allowed to fell trees with a saw, but what jobs can I do starting out? Is there anything I can do to "certify" myself? Manual felling would be ideal, I love running a saw, but I just don't know where to start out right now. I know a logging outfit owner personally and I'm hoping that there is some chance that he can give me a job. I've learned alot about forestry through school and FFA, but is any of that relevant to an employer?Basically I'm just looking for some general information and whatever you guys can offer me would be great. Thanks!

palmerstreeservice · February 04, 2005, 01:29:11 AM

snoogins,

Welcome to the forum!

There are many different avenues you can pursue as many on here will tell you, so I will tell you about the one I know most about.

If you look in you phone book under probably trees you will find a list of people who deal with them if you have already given the landscaping a try you may want to look into a Tree Service Company.

All companies are different. For example one may do only rural trees, timber clearings, others only line work or in other workd triming around electrical lines. Some company cover everything between urban and rural trees, they may even get into the shrubs and maintenance of which you already have experience which makes you an asset to them.

I will advise you that Tree services, especially urban Tree Services don't just drop trees, they have to be taken down piece at a time.

You will probably find that smaller companies the employees do a little of everything where as the bigger companies separate work out per employee where everyone has specific duties.

Hope this helps and as alway here in the forum don't be affraid to ask.

Cedarman · February 04, 2005, 10:14:07 AM

I would recommend the Soren Erickson game of logging safety course, phase 1 and 2. This is a two day course that teaches safety and will give you hands on experience felling trees. Following what you learn will help keep you safe and do less damage to other trees in the woods.

There may be other safety courses out there that do the job, but I have personally been through the courses and I see that my tree cutters do also.

Cutting timber is one of the most dangerous occupations, but also an extremely rewarding one.

Buzz-sawyer · February 04, 2005, 11:26:07 AM

Sounds like ya got it figured out already...AND ya know a logger that will let ya set chokers and pull lines for a while ....(or whatever) then ....you are on yer way
Have fun and always let Safety be your FIRST concern... ;)

Ron Scott · February 04, 2005, 04:45:25 PM

Ditto to the above, especially what Cedarman said. Recognize that logging and falling trees is a "dangerous occupation". Take all the certification courses that you can take and work with experienced people to learn the best techniques.

I have one very experienced cutter currently down with a seriously broken right leg. He has cut thousands of trees. (There's some photos of him at work in the Logging Equipment and Timber Harvesting Equipment Thread; Lee timber harvest).

He was recently hit by a limb from a tree he fell. It came down and pinned him breaking both lower bones in his right leg. He has had surgery on it with a pin placed in the leg from the knee down and screws put in the ankle. Hopefully he will be back in the woods in 6-8 months or so.

I was out getting one of the jobs started today that he would have been working. Things will go much slower without him since he was the "ramrod".

snoogins · February 04, 2005, 06:47:40 PM

Thanks for the info! What I'm wondering is if there is any way that an 18 year old high school kid can get a job working in the woods. I'm not 100% sure that there is a job available with this logger that I know, but our lousy winter has them stuck right now and I'm assuming that they aren't working. So the season hasn't really started yet and I'm hoping that I can get in at the beginning of the season doing something and work my way up. I'm pretty proficient running heavy equipment, excavators, dozers, whatever, so in my eyes I'm a qualified log loader, as far as knowing how to run equipment. Also, my forestry coach says that some guys get paid around 200-300 a day felling trees if they supply their own saw. To me, that sounds like an awesome deal and that's what is striking my interest. Is this true? My teacher has been known to BS a little, so I figure I'll ask someone that knows. Thanks for the info guys!

rebocardo · February 04, 2005, 07:27:06 PM

> if there is any way that an 18 year old high school kid can get a job
> working in the woods

Get a license for operating heavy equipment. Hey, if I was 18 and could, I would join the military and get my training there on heavy equipment. I could not for medical reasons and sort of regretted it. Almost all my friends and some of my cousins joined and most never regretted it. Many stayed in for 20+ year careers.

DanG · February 04, 2005, 07:50:45 PM

Hey, Snoogins! Welcome to the forum. I like the name.

If your logger aquaintance is "weathered in" right now, this may be a good time to talk to him. When the weather turns him loose, he's likely to be pretty busy.

Going in as a rookie, the only expectation you should allow yourself is to start at the bottom. Expect to be a gopher or choker setter. All the other expectations belong to the boss! Going in, let the boss know that you have some experience on equipment, and let it go at that. He'll remember, and give you a chance when the time comes, assuming he likes the way you work. The best way for a youngster to get along with the older guys on the crew, is to demonstrate that you want to learn from them. You don't even have to say anything, they'll see you watching. Do whatever job you are assigned the very best you can. When you get a spare moment, find something useful to do. Also take advantage of the spare moment to get a slug of water or take a leak, instead of interrupting the process to do that. All these things will be noticed, and will take you a lot further than trying to impress the crew with your knowledge and experience. Just let your work do your talking for you. At the same time, be one of the gang. As the "new guy" you will probably get kidded a bit. Take it well, and dish a little back to them.

These things will cause the guys to respect you, and they'll likely tell the boss that you're "OK". Then when a better job come's up, you'll be the one to give it a try.

snoogins · February 04, 2005, 08:17:05 PM

Awesome info guys! Yeah, I was hoping that maybe as soon as the weather gets good, they'll be busy and need someone to do something. I had been offered a few years back by the owner to come up and check out the operation but I got busy in the landscaping biz and couldn't make it up, so I'm going to tie these 2 situations together and hope I get a job out of it. I love to work and I think that's what keeps me going sometimes. Not afraid to get dirty and I'm self motivated, hopefully that will get me somewhere. I'm used to working with a crew, we run a 7 man landscape crew and I'm all about time = money.

Ron Scott · February 04, 2005, 08:36:13 PM

Yes, our "good cutters" here will make $200-$300/day. Most will cut about 20 cords per day @ $14.00/cord =$280.00/day. One now working on one of my jobs does 30 cords per day = $420.00/day. His target is at least $1000.00/week. He often "burys" the forwarder operator with wood and has to slow down some or take a day off.

Always show up for work "on time" and learn as much as you can "on the job" so that you can become a "jack of all trades" to step in wear ever needed. When you find the job you like, the boss will probably give it to you.

J_T · February 04, 2005, 08:58:23 PM

Ron we had a man cutting for us once could tell you where to put a stick in the ground and he could drive it for you several timber cutters I know can do this also in veneer oak you better not bust it or pull a splinter or the boss will turn the air blue :

I tried one his tricks of turning a tree on the stump and putting it where he wanted it . Well I wound up fixing fences for the next two days ;D ;D If I can I rather hire my trees cut .

Ron Scott · February 05, 2005, 09:08:56 AM

Yes, there are good ones and some not so good. There are those that can only do 2 cords a day. they come late and go home early.

Then there are some that you just need to "kick- out" of the woods, like those that will hang up more trees than not and the one that hit the power line 3 times.

Tillaway · February 05, 2005, 09:56:34 PM

If you want to work out west, there are plenty of jobs right now in my area. Currently almost every logging contractor in the area is hiring. One of the contractors on a sale I have has one yarder down because he does not have a crew for it. The yarder sides he does have operating are all short handed.

Logging in western Oregon is a year around occupation. Different equipment, mostly cable machines, some ground operations, mostly shovel logging. You would start as a choker setter or chaser then work up from there. Chasers unhook the "bails", brand and paint logs, bump knots, coil haywire, adjusts and repairs equipment, moves guylines as well as other duties as assigned. Choker Setters pretty much crash around out in the brush setting chokers until its time for a road change.

Cutters are needed as well, but experience counts. Most cutting contractors are not willing to train. Those that would consider it want proven people that come off the rigging crews. Knowing how to get the logs out is critical to planning falling operations.

Furby · February 05, 2005, 10:42:37 PM

Tillaway,
Roughly what does the pay start at for a newbie choke setter?

bull · February 06, 2005, 12:07:08 PM

18 What ya waitin for Get to Work.
I started clearing House lots in my spare time @ 15. and selling cord wood.. Cheap chain saw and a maul and a borrowed pickup W/driver....
average 35 cords off wood to sell a year and charged $1000.00 per acre cleared / burned all the brush. Not to bad a start didn't take long to get a better saw a trcuk and borrow grandpa's tractor. and so the story goes. No 39 YOA Have a Kubota 4610, woodmizer LT 40 super , Ford F450,7 Husky saws all still workingetc...
Also was in FFA in HS. Dairy until the money went dry.....

Where ya from .. always looking for help willin to learn...

snoogins · February 09, 2005, 12:56:37 AM

Hey everyone. Thanks for all the info. Got the chance to go out in the woods today and do some TSI work for my forestry class in school. My Ag teacher said "get your stuff, we're gonna go cut some snags" so we got in the truck after school and headed up to our school plot of 5 acres. I felled a couple dead trees that died of dwarf miseltoe and limbed and bucked them in 8' logs so that they could be picked up later. Basically, we're trying to make a stand improvement on this 5 acres we have. Right now we're just going through and making some cuts to get rid of the dead trees. Well, I appreciate everyone's help!

Tillaway · February 12, 2005, 05:18:42 PM

Quote from: Furby on February 05, 2005, 10:42:37 PM
Tillaway,
Roughly what does the pay start at for a newbie choke setter?

Depends on the operator, the good companies pay enough to live on. I think around $12 hour maybe a little less. Pay goes up to around $20 - 25 an hour for a hook tender. Skilled equipment operators are about the same rate. Labor is becoming a real problem so pay has been going up. The really good ones negotiate a higher wage.

I would have got to this sooner but I was in training the past six days. I will be going to more in another week or so.