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Peterson vs Lucas

Started by 1953greg, February 03, 2005, 12:49:37 AM

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1953greg

I am trying to decide which way to go?  what are the pros and cons of these mills against each other (disregarding any bandmill considerations as i have ruled them out due to blade/head maintenance).  im leaning to lucas simply from a logistic/domestic reason (100 mi n of bailey's in jackson tn).   i have seen neither in action,  only the lucas on tape.  any comments appreciated.  prices?  thanks 1953greg
good day    greg

DanG

I've seen them both in action.  Judging strictly from my own observations, the only thing Lucas has going for it is price.  IMHO, the Peterson beat's it, hands down, in every other category.

Among other, more minor things, I am very unimpressed with the Lucas method of raising and lowering the saw head.  It isn't too awful bad if you have a second person, but it would be tough to operate alone.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Kirk_Allen

Hum?  Lets See?  I cant seem to find a Lucas link on this here gold mind of information site ;D

I think Peterson would get my vote!

I have looked at both and one day hope to add a Peterson to my collection for those WHOPPERS that are kicking my but.


Ianab

I'd vote for the Peterson too, even though the Lucas isn't a bad machine.
I think the construction and ease of use features put the Peterson ahead.
Having said that we wont laff at you if you do buy a Lucas, they do work well  too :)

If you phone Peterson (see the link over on the left ) they will send you a video and more info on their mills too. Maybe you can even arrange to see someones mill in action.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Captain

Well everybody knows my vote ;)

Lucas Mills do the job, and Peterson ATS Mills are fractionally more expensive when comparing, however there are operating points and features that stand out.  I would urge you to contact Peterson for some information and try to see each mill in operation if possible. 

Best of luck with your research, and if you have any specific questions I can help with, let me know!!

Captain

CosmoPack

Well,  I bought a used Peterson in December.  Great move on my part.  I was leaning toward the Lucas at first, but the 10" cut capacity on the WPF made me lean to the Peterson.  The mill cuts great in the large oak logs that I am milling (36"-52").  I am cutting cants from the logs (6x6 to 8x10). I've cut a good number of 1" boards as well.  All the lumber is square and true.  I also have a small band mill and I do have some waviness (sp?) in some lumber.   I like that you don't have to turn the log while using a swing mill.  That saves alot of handling time.

I asked alot of questions here about this issue in December and received alot of good responses.  Captain helped me out alot in my initial learning stage about set-up and operation.  The folks in NZ have been extremely helpful as well.

Hokiemill

Greg,

Both mills will make lumber for you.  Both mills have pros and cons, and either way you go, you'll be darn happy to just have a mill and a stack of fresh sawn lumber and unhappy that you don't have a kiln or trailer with a knuckle boom, or a saw shed, or .......

With that said, I'll give you my opinion.  I would get the Peterson.  I own a Lucas 618 that I bought used and cheap and I hope to upgrade to a Peterson once the mill money starts flowing (hopefully).  As best I can tell there are four primary benefits to getting the Lucas:

Price:  Buying new or used the Lucas costs a bit less than the Peterson.  However, the difference isn't nearly as much as some believe.  Problem is, people make an apples to oranges comparison with the Lucas and the WPF.  The Peterson ATS is the comparison that should be made as the WPF is a completely different beast (an upgraded beast) and when you make that apples to apples comparison, the pricing is reasonably close.

Head lift:  This can be viewed as a pro or a con depending on how you look at it.  As DanG mentioned, the way you raise/lower the Lucas is a bit different than the Peterson.  The Lucas has two hand cranks at either end of the track, while the Peterson has two hand cranks, both on one end.  The con part of this is that for vertical adjustments on the Lucas you have to walk to the far end of the tracks or have a second person.  The pro part of this is that the Lucas set up allows you to raise the ends separately and this allows you to easily adjust your tracks to run parallel with the center of your log (adjusting for log taper).  With the Peterson this is done by shimming one end of the log up on its bunk after raising it with a hi-lift jack or similar.

Thin blade:  I believe the Lucas has a slightly thinner blade than the Peterson which results in a slightly smaller kerf (less wasted wood).  But the difference in kerf size in very slight and I think it makes very little difference (if any) in the end with how many boards you pull out of a log.  The downside to this is that if you want to make a full width cut (6" or 8") you will probably have to do it in two passes.  The thinner blade has a tendency to wander when making big cuts.

Location:  You mention that you're within 100 miles from the TN warehouse and that's a good thing.  But if you're like me, I'd rather wait on a couple days of shipping than drive 100 miles. 


Now, even though the Lucas pros can look like cons, there are some definite Peterson pros.

Side to side head adjustment:  You move the Lucas side to side by pushing it.  The Peterson moves side to side with a handwheel and chain arrangement that lets you easily crank the head in either direction.  On my 1998 Lucas, the side to side pushing is not always easy.  Even with the moving parts (wheels and UHMW block) cleaned and lubed, the shear weight of the head assembly can make a day of pushing that head side to side 1 inch or 6 inches at a time a bit tiring.

Side to side head adjustment lock:  This may be a problem specific to my mill, but the Lucas method for locking the head assembly once the side to side adjustment is made, doesn't work so well.  The lock is similar to a biesmeyer table saw fence turned upside down.  Vibration seems to make the lock handle drop and the head ends up moving small amounts.  I have to counter this by pushing the head against one of its side to side stops while I'm pushing the milling down the log.  Makes my hands tired.  I've adjusted every different way and it still won't work smoothly - I'm in the process of re-engineering a different lock.  If I remember correctly the Peterson lock is a bar that drops down into one of the head assembly wheels to keep it from turning.  Simple and effective.

Head swinging:  On both mills the head is rotated from vertical to horizontal the same way - a single handle with a gas cylinder assist is pushed through a 90 degree swing.  I'm not sure of the mechanics, but there is a huge difference between my 98 and the Peterson I saw at the Richmond logging show.  My Lucas takes a good bit of effort to get it moving, then the gas assist helps with the rest.  I was able to swing the Peterson head with one finger - no, really, one finger.  This can make a difference after a long day of swinging that head.

Loading:  If you're going to load your mill into the back of a truck by yourself, the Peterson has the edge here.  With my Lucas, I set up two ramps, put the two wheels on the head assembly, push the motor to the end with the wheels, lift the light end, and then push like hell.  At 155 pounds, I can't get the mill into the back of my truck unless I have help or I have the mill uphill from the truck.  The Peterson takes advantage of the hand crank side to side adjustment and a couple of small wheels on one end (in addition to the big jockey wheels).  Basically you place the light end (with the small wheels) on your tailgate, use the crank to move the motor up to tailgate end, lift the light end, and push it into the bed while it rolls on those little wheels.  I haven't done it, but it looks easy on the video.

Fit and finish:  From what I saw at the Richmond show, the Peterson seems to have, in general, a better fit, finish, and feel to it.  More aluminum, less painted, etc.

Double cutting:  Both mills have the ability to cut a board twice as wide as their stated sizes (an 8" mill can cut a 16" wide board), but it isn't an easy process for either.  Due to how it's made, the Lucas requires the entire head carriage to be lifted, spun 180 degrees and then lowered back onto the tracks.  The Peterson requires the removal of a blade guard and you're ready.  It isn't a process that you'll want to do all day long, but when the need arises for a wide board or beam – advantage, Peterson.

Support:  One big factor is the support you can find right here on the ForestryForum.  Peterson is a forum sponsor and several of its employees/founders are members who are considered part of the FF family.  Captain is a rep (I think) based in the Northeast and I think he stocks some parts in order to reduce shipping time.  When you ask a question about a Peterson here, someone who designs and/or builds them will answer.  Lucas is really a NZ company and Baileys is their U.S. rep and neither of them seem to be involved in this forum (or others).

Now, a couple caveats.  My comparison is based on my 1998 Lucas 618.  Things might be slightly different with newer models, although the overall design hasn't changed.  Also note that despite my pros/cons list my Lucas does saw boards ;D and I do have fun with it.  However, as an engineer, I'm always looking for easier, more efficient ways to do things and it appears to me that Peterson looks for these things too.  I have a Lucas because I didn't have much expendable cashola to chase a hobby and a $4000 swing mill is hard to pass up regardless of who makes it.  A Peterson is definitely in my future as soon as some money shows up  :D.

I hope this helps answer your question.  Get the Peterson video and go see both of the mills live and in person before you buy.

Wow, that was long.

Jeff

Quote from: Frank_Pender on February 03, 2005, 08:52:17 AM
I can't resist to comment, but everyone knows what I would say for production, size of logs sawing and such.   I just have not found a mill that can do the precisions and production for one fella or gal like the two I have. :) :)

Yes, and ain't it a shame, with all the owners of that particular mill manufacture that are members of the Forestry Forum, and all the mentions that they get here, That that mill manufacturer's owner will not give the Forestry Forum any support let alone the time of day.

Looking at Swing mills, Peterson is a great mill with great people behind it.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

crtreedude

Jeff,

To me this would be a very strong argument against the Lucas sawmill - it just says that they aren't that smart when it comes to marketing or to supporting customers.

On this forum, we get good information and not to be part of it when you get mentioned frequently seems to be pretty short-sighted. Makes me wonder if they intend to be selling to the market for a long time. Based on my experience, Petersons will definitely follow up with you - even if you live in Costa Rica - much less in USA.

Fred
So, how did I end up here anyway?

Jeff

Quote from: crtreedude on February 03, 2005, 10:22:50 AM
Jeff,

To me this would be a very strong argument against the Lucas sawmill - it just says that they aren't that smart when it comes to marketing or to supporting customers.

On this forum, we get good information and not to be part of it when you get mentioned frequently seems to be pretty short-sighted. Makes me wonder if they intend to be selling to the market for a long time. Based on my experience, Petersons will definitely follow up with you - even if you live in Costa Rica - much less in USA.

Fred


I'm not talking about the lucas mill. I'm talking about the kind of mill DanG has. But I think you make a good  point.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

D._Frederick

I have seen these mills operate year after year at the LOGGING CONFERENCE and the Peterson gets my vote, it is much more user friendly. If you want to cut large cants, you don't have to pick-up the saw frame and turn it around.

Both of these mill need young legs to operate, if you are overweight and have knee problems, I would look at a different type mill.

DanG

D brings up a good point. (He gets one of these every year or two. ;D)  Unless you shuck out the bucks for the automated Peterson, swingers are labor intensive.

Another option that IS a forum sponsor, is the D&L Double Cut.  That's a multi-blade saw that gives you most of the flexibility of the swingers, with a lot less work.  You really oughta at least take a look at it.

Any way you slice it( ;D), making lumber is a lot of hard work. Anything you can reasonably do to reduce the effort required, is something worth looking into.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Ernie

I was comparing the Lucas and the Peterson, there are plenty of both around our neighbourhood (note the Kiwi spelling).  I discovered that a mate of mine has a Rimu twinsaw and "I liked it so much, I bought the company"  Well actually I bought one.  They are made in the South Island of NZ by Rimu Engineering Ltd.  The maximum cut is 12" X 6"  but with the slabbing bar, I will be able to get 5 ft wide slabs.

We have  Pines (radiata), redwoods, Tasmanian Blackwoods (Looks like walnut) various varieties of Eucalyptus  Poplars and Cypress macrocarpa which we want to mill.

Upon hearing that we are getting this particular mill, neighbours who were planning on getting the local Lucas and Peterson lads in have been beating on the door.  The consistent accuracy impresses them all.  Being a metric country all measurements and prices are metric, the going rate for milling is NZ$150.00 per cube + a tax known as GST (12.5%).

It will be hard to get around to our own stuff with prices like that.

The mill should arrive in the next couple of weeks so I will keep you posted as things progress.

Here is a picture from the top of our farm for your interest. Whoops, I guess that I had better learn how to attach a picture.


A very wise man once told me . Grand children are great, we should have had them first

T_in_SC

Here is a used Lucas on Ebay in California.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=61788&item=3871362339&rd=1

There is also a Mobile Dimension listed in Puerto Rico.


Ernie

Thanks to Jeff, I think that I have learned to attach a picture.

Here is the view from the top of the farm that I referred to in my last post
A very wise man once told me . Grand children are great, we should have had them first

DanG

Wow, Ernie.  That's a nice photo! 8)

Welcome to the forum. I'll be looking forward to some pics of that Rimu. Don't think I've seen one before.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Tom

Nice picture, Ernie. 

You know that we have a thread on sky pictures, don't you?  That one would fit in there real good.  You could copy the address and not even have to upload it again. :)

Ianab

Hi Ernie

Good to see another Kiwi on here.
Picture looks like you are in North Taranaki, around Urenui area?
I've seen the Rimu mills running up at the Fieldays, they look pretty sweet but were out of my price range  ::)

I'm in Stratford by the way.

Cheers

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Ernie

Hi Ian

We are at Mangamaio between Urenui and Uruti on the Mimi  Stream.  I dont think that I should translate the maori place manes for the forum, I might get banned.

Ernie
A very wise man once told me . Grand children are great, we should have had them first

Wife

Hokiemill, I just wanna thank you for your very thorough and fair comparisons, even though you own the other one - I'm always on the lookout for a good salesperson - interested?? No, but seriously, that was brilliantly said. Thank you so much!

Oh, and just got a couple of updates for anyone whos reading...

Thin Kerf - The Lucas and Peterson blade "tips" are pretty close. But the Peterson blade "plate" (the body), is thicker. That means less waving, less heating up, less stress, less retensioning costs, with the same kerf. Plus there's a few more teeth on the Peterson blades, which reduces tip loading and therefore plate stress...oh, and sometimes a better finish too...OK, I'll shut up about blades!

Micro Kerf - My little bro' (Jake) has also invented this awesome new product especially for those "multiple 1x boards" where kerf is everything (or the bandsaw owners that just don't want any more sawdust). So we've now got an upgrade kit which allows you to cut 6" x 1" boards with a teeny 3.5mm kerf (just over an eighth of an inch)!

Head Lift/Taper - Since we've had so many requests for the ability to adjust the tracks to taper, yep, you got it. Jake made a teeny weeny modification to the ATS Track Frame, and now all new ATS mills can also be adjusted to the taper with a little handle. Don't you just looooove little brothers...

Oh, Oh, and the Production Manager is going to beat me up when he sees this, but I know Jake is also in the middle of designing some secret awesome Log Dogs that will also help with taper adjustments....and can line up your logs...and can hold several small logs at once...keep an eye out.

Factory - Ph 1877 3271471

Kerris, in the background....
Petersons Global Sales Ltd
15c Hyland Cres
Rotorua, New Zealand
www.petersonsawmills.com
kbrowne@petersonsawmills.com
Ph +64 7 3480863

chet

I think dat der Hokiemill, deservers one of dem nice Peterson hats.  ;)
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

Wife

I am inclined to agree with you Chet. And what size shirt are you, Hokiemill??
Kerris, in the background....
Petersons Global Sales Ltd
15c Hyland Cres
Rotorua, New Zealand
www.petersonsawmills.com
kbrowne@petersonsawmills.com
Ph +64 7 3480863

Ga_Boy

Now want the be a hoot.

Running a Lucas wearing a Peterson hat and tee shirt. :D

You gotta post a picture with that set up.



Hey Hokie,

If you ever want to run a 10" WPF, drop by my place around the middle of April.  I should have mine by then.



Mark
10 Acers in the Blue Ridge Mountains

NZJake

Here's the Rimu's page...Rimuengineering.co.nz

Petersons have many Patents that are in various stages of acceptance, two of which have major importance to the generic make up of our mills, our High and low track system (high/low), another generic system is what we call the (ATS), this gives the abillity to raise one track independantly of the other. You will see that this company offers both very similar options. Just a point of interest at this stage. Other then the seemingly similar frame make ups, the Rimu holds one very distinct difference in that the operator must push two blades rather than one (if your cutting an 8/6 board you will need to push the mill through a 14" bite), they do have automated versions however, if you are going to mill with twin blade type mills automation is the right direction in my opinion.

I cut a huge hard wood log up in the weekend into 8/4, cut 2600BF in 4hrs (half the log, with a strong helper), I've got a bunch of pics of the tree getting removed and milled, I'll post them soon.

Ernie, keep us up to date on the accuracy of your mill, I know that it's gonna have to be pretty accurate to put the old swinger down. I thought you'ld look more toward a single saw for dealing with the harder tensioned logs you'll be getting? One blade means tension release, it also gives more power to the blade, I know I was apreciating it over the weekend with the big old gum I was dealing with.

Cheers, Jake.
Wife says I woke up one morning half asleep uttering thin kerf and high production, I think I need a hobby other than milling?

Hokiemill

Wife (and anyone else with free shirts) I'm usually a Large unless the shirts run a tad small then I go for the XLs.  I'm a small guy but I gotta have breathing room  ;D.

Captain, I'd be more than happy to be a salesman for you.  Send me a 8" ATS and I'll demonstrate it to anyone who's interested, and if it's free then I can afford to keep my Lucas and I can show them both side by side.  Man, the ideas are flowing now.....

One more obvious thing to point out - I'm pretty sure the Lucas design has remained the same for many years - my 98 looks just like the mills in the current literature.  Based on info coming from Captain and NZJake, the Peterson continues to evolve and improve.

For my next product review I'll be comparing kilns for the small sawmill operators.  To be included in my review, all kiln manufacturers should send one working kiln to my home address.  In order for the review to be thorough and fair, the review process could take several years so you shouldn't expect the return of your kiln until the comparison is complete.  ;)

Captain


1953greg

thanks guys from all over.  had no idea i would open up such a big can.  couple of points: 
1. the $150/cube i saw does that convert to $.62/board foot usd? 
2. the d&l is out of the question as most logs (>24") are too large for a 30hp 4wd tractor to lift.  the logs i saw are usually large single isolated trees, tree line blow down, lightining strike, yard removal, or others that are too large for the local loggers.  largest to date is a 46" cherry bark oak.  i have been using a 42" alaskan chainsaw mill for slabbing then ripping w/ a skill saw.  slow primitive way but i have bout 2500bf in the barn air drying.    everyone has to start somewhere!   guess i will just have to make a trip to youngstown in june.  thanks again  1953greg
good day    greg

Ianab

Hey... we will talk about the pros and cons of different mills all day  :D

Sounds like you have been doing your homework, a swingblade is the thing you need and whatever one you get it's going to be a big step up from the Alaskan.

The $150 per cube rate would be about .35c bd/ft I think (thats NZ cents) Probably about .25c of your money  ??? :P

Similar to your prices I think.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

sigidi

Alright I've been watching this one unfold for awhile now and feel I need to put my hnd up and ask some Q's, at the trisk of making this sticky - not my intention...

1) regardless of if it's good business sense, someone not sponsoring this great forum can't be taken as a blight on their equipment can it? As Jeff said ha can't comment on Lucas - mind you that has me thinking... as Baileys are the distributors of Lucas over there, is it more pertinent to ask why baileys hasn't done any sponsoring?

2) Lucas issues - Hokiemill on your locking of side adjust, I too had some initial problems and seemed to have mine tied down, as a fellow Lucas owner and more importantly forum member, I would be more than pleased to help out to avoid the extra work you talk of, things like that are frustrating at best and downright dangerous at worst. You may want to contact Lucas to find out if any mods have been made to susequent models since yours was fabricated, I know mine, bought last year, can turn around with the blade on the face of the log to negate having to pick up the power head to do dbl cuts. The dble cutting by taking blade guards off is a major safety concern isn't it? or why is the guard there?

3) Either of them, unless looking at the Peterson ASM, are a good workout, but then we aren't comparing apples to apples...

4) A Question maybe Captain can answer for me - during a horizontal cut the lucas can cut a full 8" but it is slower than doing two 4" cuts, is this the same for Peterson? is it better for the equipment to do two 4" cuts but still possible to do a full 8" horizontal?

5) Captain for you again (sorry mate but I know you know your Peterson stuff) with a thicker blade blank (as compared to Lucas) but the same size kerf is there more possibility of friction due to lack of clearance? would this blade retain heat longer as it is thicker? admittedly I'd expect it to be a more robust blade as it is thicker, but are these things probable?

Disclaimer - I'm a lucas owner and don't profit from my point of view here - whatever decison you make for your cutting will have you getting more addicted than you already are Greg and after working with the Alaskan mill you will find either make a dream to run

Good luck Greg

Oh and one last thing, I haven't been milling for a long time (just about to crack 60hours of engine time!!!) and as such have taken a long time to post on this thread, but I really felt that Larry would expect me to be in here asking some q's and putting some ideas forward.

(Larry is my Mill)
Always willing to help - Allan

NZJake

Sigid, just to answer the guard thing... The Peterson has an extended push handle guard that keeps the operator away from the centre unit almost half a meter extrta than the lucas, it also has a longer push handle. The emergancy stop is located exactly where your hand would be pushing. We really have designed as many safety functions into the mill as possible.

I can tell you why that guard is so important, I'm about to cut up the other half of the gum log today 2meters wide at the but end. When your trying to push the mill at that height sawdust blasts your chest and gets down your pants with out that guard. The guard does come in handy when you are dealing with hairy logs though, it deflects small obsticals away from the operator.

The Peterson manual illustrates clear step by step instructions how to double cut ie... standing on the left side of the log while the blade cuts the right side of it. When I am production double cutting the guard stays off tell the end of the log (this is my preference, alternate wing nuts can be put on or even little chained pins if you are concerned).

Double cutting on the Lucas? How does the bed stay suspended by the centre unit?  Is there a mark at the centre of the bed to assume the swing? How do the blades live up to all that weight being put on them? Do you get any chain stretch when lowering and raising the winches (intersect meet)?

Captain will probably answer this one a little better. Sure when I am using the ASM sometimes it makes since to take two bites to perform a 10" wide cut, it takes me 2 seconds to return to the beginning and cut the second-with out any energy waisted.

On my manual ATS I do not make practice of cutting two 4's to make a horizontal eight, I keep my blade sharp and power through it every time. Our blades have good clearance and have been proven over many years, the thick blades stops the tendancy for wondering which takes HP away. Also keeps the blade from getting hot. Most timber in NZ water is not even required on our blades, (except for our microkerf range), that should tell you that the clearance is very good.

Wife says I woke up one morning half asleep uttering thin kerf and high production, I think I need a hobby other than milling?

CosmoPack

I am cutting 6x8 and 8 x 10 Red oak with my Peterson WPF and I am not using any water on the blade.  The blade stays warm, but not hot.  I am cutting a 10" horizontal cut and a 8" vertical cun most of the time.  I have had some pinching of the blade,  but I used a couple of wedges and sawed on out.

I have had to double cut on White Oak on a 10" vertical line.  I dropped 6" and cut all of the vertical lines and then dropped 4" and cut with a standard swing blade cutting pattern. 

Captain

Hey Sigidi, I'll try to add to Jake's answers for you a bit...

Aided by the thickness of the blade plate, cutting full depth horizontals with the Peterson with a sharp blade that has appropriate tension and side clearance is absolutely not a problem, most of the time....some species like Hickory or a very dry/tensioned  piece of White Oak is sometimes abusive to a blade.  It demands water cooling and sometimes is better to take a full depth cut in two passes.  This is one advantage of a swing mill over multi-blade dimensional mills.  With the multi blade mills to achieve your desired size timber, you are forced to do it in one pass. 

I have not had difficulties with blades overheating or running hot due to a difference in side clearance on a frequent basis.  I did have a job cutting some bandmill rejected ten year down Elm for a fellow, about 2200BF of it.  My blade was over half worn from its original carbide dimensions, so my side clearance had already been reduced.  When that job was finished, although I still had considerable life on the faces of my carbide teeth (except for the ones that the 16 penny nails got to ::)), the side clearance on my blade was completely reduced.  I realized this when cutting a pine log on the next job.  The teeth were sharp, but the blade did not want to go through.  That blade was slightly discolored from higher than normal heat.

I, like Cosmo, use little to no water this time of year when the logs are frozen or near frozen.  I really only use it for pitch buildup reduction in the warm months, unless taking on a dense tensioned hardwood like White oak or Hickory.
I have seen new Lucas blades walk in full depth vertical and horizontal cuts in hardwood, I believe due to their plate thickness?? 

Now maybe you Lucas folks can tell me what the difference is between a standard Lucas blade and the "Aussie" blade marketed by Bailey's??  I was wondering if the more expensive Aussie blade had a thicker plate.

Captain




sigidi

NZ Jake - one big reason behind my choice of purchase between the two mills was a safety aspect, now I'm not saying one is safer than the other, or anything like that. It was just the concept of removing guards to use a feature of the mill - a bit of background I had my leg crushed while operating equipment 4.5 years ago and since that I am very concious of safety (pity I wasn't so concious 4.6 years ago ;)) so just in my case it was a big putoff, I dunno maybe it could be explained in a bit more detail in the promo stuff or whatever. You see I bought a mill without operating either mill, both the reps yourselves (Simon C) and Lucas (John F) where too far from me to do the driving Simon about 180-200mile and John 140mile, so the promo stuff adn such q's was all I had to go on.

Turning the carriage around to dble cut - the blade does rest on the face of the cut log, but this just provides the pivot point and the weight is taken by the drive shaft and the two 'feet' positioned in front and back of the blade. Addmittedly I am carefull in how I do this as I don't cut well with bent blades and I only do it on the bigger logs so ther is a good surface to use, so I wouldn't do it on a 16" log it's just got too small a face

Cosmo - I use water all the time and also add dishwasing detergent to work as a surfactant to stop any build-up. When the engine stops and the blade has wound down touching the blade finds it cool and not even warm - this did surprise me somewhat, I have heated up one blade by trying to yeild too much from the bottom of the log and it pinched in the middle between my bunks where the weight ot the remaining log was too much.

Captain - maybe we differ in what we cut, I'm primarily cutting hardwoods which have a density of over 2200lbs per 424 bft when at 12% MC so I find the water and the dble horizontal cuts are much easier on my equipment, having said this I can do the full depth horizontal and vertical cuts but as you put it, it's abusive to the equipment.

Metal sucks I'm sure - I know the is no $'s in the budget for a metal detector, but I bet as soon as I clean up after my first strike, the budget will magically grow to accomodate a metal detector purchase :D

Blade walking - I haven't experienced any yet (as you mention a fella has to look after his blade, tension, sharpness etc and it will look after him) I just finished cutting 'internal lining' boards 4 x 150mm or 5/32x6" and had no trouble other than DanG moth/bug holes in the boards in the most inconvenient places.

Aussie blade at baileys - just checking out Baileys BRB... ok it seems the Aussie blade at $189 is an original from down under, whereas the Lucas blade for $149 is a local knock-off made by Simmonds you guys are lucky, over here our blades retail at about $229US
Always willing to help - Allan

Arthur

Quote from: Jeff B on February 03, 2005, 10:13:37 AM
Quote from: Frank_Pender on February 03, 2005, 08:52:17 AM
I can't resist to comment, but everyone knows what I would say for production, size of logs sawing and such.   I just have not found a mill that can do the precisions and production for one fella or gal like the two I have. :) :)

Yes, and ain't it a shame, with all the owners of that particular mill manufacture that are members of the Forestry Forum, and all the mentions that they get here, That that mill manufacturer's owner will not give the Forestry Forum any support let alone the time of day.

Looking at Swing mills, Peterson is a great mill with great people behind it.


Jeff

isnt it about time that you allowed EcoSaw to sponsor the FF.  Our American manufacture D&L Double Cut already does and threads like this one deserve the extra input for information to the potential swinger.

arthur

Hokiemill

Came home from work today and was greeted with a box from New Zealand!!  True to her word Kerris sent some fabulous Peterson gear.  Now I know you guys are jealous, but take a look at this:



Who wouldn't be jealous of strikingly handsome guy like that.  And the hat and shirt ain't half bad either. :D  The gear also came with a very nice note and a picture showing the whole Peterson crew with names attached.  You guys have outdone yourselves.  Thanks a million.  I'll proudly display my black and red.

By the way - don't let the beard scare you.  I change my "configuration" on a regular basis - sometimes a beard, or a goatee, or a fumanchu, long hair, short hair, or shaved bald.  Working with engineers can be quite boring so I like to shake things up a bit.

Thanks again to Kerris and the whole Peterson gang.


tnlogger

 Great hat and shirt there Hokiemill  8) 8)
ya think you might be getting buttered up to work one of dem shootouts  :D :D :D
                     cograts gene
gene

Hokiemill

I'll work wherever they want me to - I'm buttering them up for a mill.  ;D ;) ;D

Captain

Now that is some pretty high fashion merchandise....a fellow could get mistaken for someone else...well, not with that beard

Captain

Jeff

Now Hokiemill, if you would just send ME your address, we could ship your rust reaper you won a month ago!  I still aint heard from ya...
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

KiwiCharlie

Hi,
For me its come down to the Peterson 1st, Mahoe 2nd, and the Rimu 3rd, but all closely spaced!  :D  Purchase is still a way off, but its coming.  The light I see at the end of the tunnel is definitely NOT an oncoming train!
Hows this for a small world - it looks like Im currently working for a guy who is the stepfather of a Peterson NZ employee!!  Go figure!
Sorry, this doesnt compare Lucas at all, but from the start Ive never been a big fan of the Lucas, based solely on what Ive seen, ie never run one.
Cheers,
Charlie.
Walk tall and carry a big Stihl.

Ga_Boy

Jeff,

Hokie and I are practically next door neighbors, send me that Rust reaper and I'll let Hokie use it any time he wants> ;) ;)  ;D



Mark
10 Acers in the Blue Ridge Mountains

Hokiemill

Jeff, I'm not sure what's going on.  I sent it on the day I won it, then I sent it again when you emailed me about it.  I'm going to send it to you via FF mail this time.  Sorry about our disconnects.

Jeff

 :D

Still aint got it. Who are you sending the I.M.'s to? 
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Hokiemill

Jeff, I just sent it a few minutes ago.  All I did was click on your email icon under your pretty picture in your post.  It opens up my outlook and the address is "jeff@forestryforum.com".

Ga_Boy, thanks for the offer, but I think we can get this worked out.

Jeff

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

J_T

Lost that one Ga Boy :D :D Good try :D :D
Jim Holloway

Ga_Boy

Yea JT, when you see an oppertunity ya just gotta try.

Hokie,

Not to worry, I was just trying to look out for ya.  In a few weeks I will be driving over to Stanton to vist Outback Heating to pick up a Heatmor unit.


Mark
10 Acers in the Blue Ridge Mountains

Wife

Hokiemill - I'm sorry I've been a bit quiet lately, but I certainly got shown that great photo the minute you put it up - I had no idea how complementing the gear would be with your (still ;)) black beard - that is certainly a photo worth framing! Thank you so much for putting that up. Mind if we stick it in a newsletter or something when the opportunity comes up??

Oh, and you might have some competition if Sigidi keeps giving me such good feedback too....hmmm...we could run a competition..."Millers Faces of the Millennium"....of course wearing sponsors gear  ;D

Kerris, in the background....
Petersons Global Sales Ltd
15c Hyland Cres
Rotorua, New Zealand
www.petersonsawmills.com
kbrowne@petersonsawmills.com
Ph +64 7 3480863

J D in AUS

Hokemill
               To load lucas mill, fit wheels, wind up til wheels above floor of truck/ute trailer  Back/reverse  truck/ute under saw carrier, wind down,  No  ramps needed    How easy was that
                                                         J D in Aus                 Happy owner Lucas mill in sunny Queensland  Aus.    :) :) 8)

Fla._Deadheader


Gidday, Mate.  Welcome to the Forum.   How long ya been sawing??
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

NZJake

J D When you say wind up then wind down and wheels, does this mean the Lucas is now fitted with a stearing mechanism and chain? I noticed at Aus timber that they had included apposing rollers at the end of the bed like the Peterson mill. I thought that it was weird, as they did not have the winding means at that time. You'd have to push the centre unit up hill while holding the bed back somehow? I guess maybe they've finally added the sizing wheel, am I right?

Welcome aboard, nice to see another swinger around.
Wife says I woke up one morning half asleep uttering thin kerf and high production, I think I need a hobby other than milling?

Hokiemill

Welcome aboard J.D. and thanks for the input.  Jake, I think what he's saying isn't what you're thinking.  I believe JD is talking about leaving the saw carriage on the rails, put the jockey wheels on, raise the rails and carriage up to a high level, drive the truck bed under the rails and carriage, then drop the rails until the wheels contact the truck bed.  I guess I'd have to try it out first because it seems like some wrestling to do in order to get the carriage off the rails (limited room to move around in the bed of a truck) before you lift the empty rails up high enough to drive out.  If it works, it'll be a good technique for loading up at the cutting site, but I probably wouldn't use it at my house to load the mill - I don't want to set up the rails in order to load the saw carriage - usually easier to find a friend and push like heck.

JD, tell us more about your setup and attach pictures - lots of pictures ;D

J D in AUS

Hokemill
                  You got it in one!
    Fla.- Deadheader  Started about 1973? with a forrest mill 2 blader  with VW motor, good  mill once  It (the mill) taugh you how to use it
NZ JAKE  Hokemill Got about right, he will soon work out the rest  ;)  :) :D
    plenty pic but no can post  :(       J D in sunny QLD

Swing_blade_Andy

JD

I used to do something similar with the Lucas but I soon learned to get that lad on the ground ASAP.

I attached a lifting chain from the trailer ramps to the Frame lifting winches and wind it up that all important meter so that loading the Power head was a simple mater of walking forward. Doing it lis way the frame gave the ramps stability when they were in the air.

Saved my back and my boiler from pushing that laddie up the ramp. It took a few wet days doing it by my self until I figured out the easier way to do it.

I can't remember how many times I asked Lucas to design set of loading wheels..

Andrew

Fla._Deadheader


  Ed and I went to see a fella do some sawing with a Lucas, today.

  Let's just say, that, some guys should not be allowed to own or use tools  ::) ::)

  He has it set up permanent. It is about 150' from the log yard. He drags 1 log at a time, behind his pick-up. There is a ditch formed from dragging logs in the same track. Right now, it has about 10" of water and sandy mud in the ditch. He then rolls the log UPHILL to the bunks. He does not use notches in the bunks. He says they are worn out, and he skims them with the blade occasionally.  ::) ::) ::)

  There is lumber piles stacked all around the mill. He carries slabs and everything away from the mill.

  He then cranks the mill end a little higher on the far end. That way, when you let go of the push-bar, the saw "drifts" toward him and makes it easier to pull.  :o :o :o ::) ::)

  The log will rock a little, especially when the blade has "several" hours between sharpenings.  ::) ::) ::)  I checked it, while he was shoveling a truck load of sawdust. The teeth would NEVER cut you.  :o ::) ::) ::)

  He finally made a few cuts, and the blade would bind. Instead of carrying a few shims in his pocket, to prop the board UP, away from the blade, he push-pulled the sawhead several times, in the same area, trimming material from the board side of the cut, with each pass, until the head pushed easily to the far end of the track.

  He says that flat sawing the boards is easier. Is it not better to do the boards "on edge" rather than flatways ???  He does mostly 2 X 8's and 2 X 10's. ??????

  He says, yer gonna LOVE this, Them knots are hard to cut and keep the board flat.  ::) ::) ::) ::)

  We had to leave.  ;D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Timo


Let's just say, that, some guys should not be allowed to own or use tools  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

That might just be me - First 10 minutes with the new Peterson WPF? Hit nail on edge (lengthwise) and striped off all 6 teeth ("thats a funny sound..."). I was amazed that the mill still finished the cut!

On the loading issue - I tried to load the cutting head into my truck single handedly :o :o. Lets just say I am half way through building a trailer with a suitably low deck!
Peterson WPF27 with bipedal, dual grapple, 5'6" loader/ offloader

Captain

Geez Harold, glad it was not one of OUR owners.. ::)..although I am sure we have more than a few like that....

CAPTAIN

Fla._Deadheader


  I'da took some pitchers, but, dit'n wanna embarrass the guy, without his knowledge. ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

osmar

someone could help me to build a swingblade?

sigidi

osmar, there is a thread on the forum at the moment of some lads who are building or have built their own swingmills - it has heaps of very good info - take a look at it.
Always willing to help - Allan

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