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felling dead trees

Started by bitternut, February 01, 2005, 09:01:14 PM

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bitternut

I am cutting some tsi trees that have been dead for over a year.  I have noticed that they don't seem to react like live trees when they are felled. The hinge is brittle and snaps off a lot sooner than green wood. I mostly use a humbolt notch with a straight back cut since most of the trees are too small for bore cutting. Is there a special way dead trees should be cut? Most are 12" and under but a few are much larger. Mostly beech, red maple, ash or black birch.

WH_Conley

My opinion, cutting standing dead is like playing with gas, smoking a cigar.

Never know when you are going to get into a rotten spot and that thing break off.

Easier to give advise on cutting live trees. As every tree is a little different-lean and so, dead are worse.

Whatever you do be VERY careful as they are unpredicable(?)- better cuttin trees than spelling.

Boy I was a whole lot of help, wasn't I ?

Just be careful.
Bill

Black_Bear

You can try bore cutting into them just to see how punky the tree is. The trick is to find where the good wood is and save that for last during your cut. Personally, I used to cut a lot of those trees from one knee and was always looking up. It doesn't take much of a rap on the head to ruin your day. I actually preferred to use a safety notch and then push them with a skidder, but I don't know if you have that luxury.

Also, they (game of logging, etc.) are teaching everyone to cut a snag at waist height (no bending). The theory is, that by not bending over you present less of a target if some dead fall does come down.

Good Luck,
BB


bitternut

Guess I should have been more clear on what condition these dead trees are in. They are trees that a forester marked for a tsi and then I did a hack and squirt on them with roundup in mid to late summer. Some dropped their leaves within a couple of weeks but others took till last summer to die. They are all real solid that I am cutting. The hollow or suspect trees the forester marked with an X and I am not cutting them. I do wear a peltor helmet with screen. Been bonked with a dead limb before and had sawdust in my eyes. I also wear my chaps but do not have a good pair of boots yet.

Fraxinus

I kind of like cutting dead trees.  You know you have to be a little extra careful.  But what I like is the way they go all the way to the ground better than live ones do.
:) :) :D :D
Grandchildren, Bluegrass music, old tractors, trees and sawmills.  It don't get no better'n that!

rebocardo

Live or dead, I try to shake any tree I am cutting with my truck (attached with a line), especially pine. You can get a lot of widow makers down that way.

Larry

Quote from: bitternut on February 01, 2005, 10:17:08 PM
They are trees that a forester marked for a tsi and then I did a hack and squirt on them with roundup in mid to late summer.

I did the same thing about 5 years ago.  The forester said to just let the dead trees remain standing.  Said they were good for wildlife.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Kirk_Allen

I am by no means an expert but I have felled over 100 very large dead trees while salvaging timber prior to a sale of our Grandparents land. 

The trees you described dont sound like you will be faced with many of the common problems of dead trees.

I think the closest call was with a 56" DIB American Elm.  Once on the ground I got seven 10' sections before I got to the first limb. The first 8' section was totall rot.

While making my noth cut I found out later that the connecting point of the two cuts was just shy of hitting the rot.  When I started the back cut I got 1/4 of the way through the tree and the sawdust color changed to dark brown and was very wet.  First sign of trouble ;D  I knew I could not leave the tree as is because a good wind would have blown this puppy over. 

Prior to making any of my cuts I picked the best possible direction for the tree to go based on top cover of the tree, wind etc.  After standing back and thinking real hard I pulled out 6 wedges and went to work.  I hammered them in several key places and before you know it, the tree was leaning ever so slowly so I ran like heck.  The tree snapped about even with the back cut so I was LUCKY.  Once on the ground the first 6 feet of the tree was rotted to the point of being almost hallow.  Had my first notch cut gone 1 inch deeper I would have hit the rot. 

Phorester


Herb, even on small diameter trees I might still try a bore cut.  Just a straight-through bore from the center of the face notch straight out the back of the tree.  Then put in a wedge or 2 where the saw came out the back of the tree.  Then cut the wood on either side of the wedge, from the outside of the tree toward the wedge, stopping at the wedge, and of course leaving enough wood for a hinge.  Then hammer in the wedge if the tree hasn't already fallen.  Will that work?

Larry's right, dead trees are good for wildlife.  But some landowners don't like seeing them.  You're also reducing forest fire fuel when they're cut down.  And of course you got to do what you were hired to do.

bitternut

Well I won't be cutting any 56" dbh trees like Kirk but as phorester suggested I think I might poke a bore cut through the center of the notch on the larger ones. That should give me a clue as to what kind of wood is in the center. Most parts of the woods the trees are too close or it is too steep to bump with the loader on the tractor. Maybe when I do the next thinning there will be more space between the trees to manuever. There will be plenty of standing dead trees left for the wildlife as I am only taking the ones that will make good firewood. I heat the house and the barn with wood so I don't want to just leave them to rot away in the woods. I see pielated woodpeckers in the woods quite often. I know they will appreciate the dead trees left standing.

palmerstreeservice

I have to agree with Fraxinus.

The best part about dead trees is that with any luck the majority of the bottom branches brake on the fall which leaves you with less chance that the tree will role when on the ground.  Plus if you are in the woods, limbing a live tree leaves you with quite a pile of limbs to have to deal with where as the dead tree limbs break up on impact an you can just let them lay.

In reference to what do you do when you cut them down... my advise keep all your equipment out of the trees reach and find a good path to run away first! :D

Fraxinus

When I was in the Marine Corps, I was told that men wore trousers.  Pants is what wimmin wore 8) 8)
Grandchildren, Bluegrass music, old tractors, trees and sawmills.  It don't get no better'n that!

RSteiner

I have cut quite a few dead trees and you are right they are much more brittle.  I always use an open face notch.  The hinge wood is most likely going to break before the tree reaches the ground, but with the Humbolt you are certain it is.

If they have been dead for only a couple of years the wood will not be as brittle as a tree that is standing dead long enough for the bark to sluff off.  Because of vibration and branch falling it may be wise to have some one keep an eye up while you cut.

Leaving a little thicker hinge will keep you in control of the fall longer. 

Randy
Randy

Ironwood

Well, the Elm story reminds me of a collossal hard maple that was on a construction site. The tree was mine as part of a larger deal and looked solid,..... then as I trimmed the brush around the base I saw an ever so slight hole about 8' up. The hole took a 3 1/2' twig all the way in! I was bummed, no huge slab bartops, and no economics to pay the logger buddy to cut it down. I cleared all the brush around the base and then several WIDE paths to sprint down, depending on how things went. I was SCARED AS H-LL, all pumped up like my days lead climbing rock or vertical ice! Well, things went well it came down in the planned direction and the path I took was a slight down grade for 200'. As I heard the first "pop" I was off to the races, left the saw behind, I was 220' and landing in a brush pile as the tree came down (I couldn't stop at the 200' mark too much momentum and adrenaline!!!!). The tree was completely hollow for 40' but intensely curled/ blistered and then spaulted on the inner area. INCREDIBLELY beautiful. It was a real find. I was still shaking several hours later. Just for scale, the bottom 2 -11' log were so heavy it took the triaxle log truck boom plus the huge track hoe on the site to load them. The circumference at chest 12-16'. I just finished my first project with the wood and the spaulted doors are.......well in and of themselves a work of natures art.  :o
'
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Furby

Ahhhhhhhhhh................
And the pics are where ???
I'd really like to see them doors if ya could. ;)

bitternut

Hey I'm with Furby. Lets see some pictures of that wood. Sounds like a real treasure. Lucky you

Ironwood

Well lets just say I am eletronically challenged. I still have not figured out how to limit my picture size to the specified ........what ever that word is Jeff uses.......I have LOTS of cool pics. and would love to share I just haven't figure it out yet.

  That job site also yeilded a large curly walnut, that until milling I had no idea it was curled. Luckily, I saved the BIG crotch to be milled on a a friends 46" Hud-son, and I got the flame crotch plus the " chevron" curl on all sides as walnut likes to do. I sliced it thick 3" or so and I am ready to make a custom oxidized steel tapered square arching tube base for it. It is a style of furniture I sophisticated primative, natural edges mixed with metals, stone or glass.

  I promise to post the photo's when I figure it out. I am just too busy trying to make a living!!!!!! ;)
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Furby

Reid,
If you have not already done so, download the FREE software at xat.com.
I use the image optimizer the most.
The free trial will still resize pics after it expires.
Open the pic in xat, find the resize button on the left.
Use the pop up window to resize your pic down to a little over 300 pixels for horizontal pics, and around 235-245 pixels for vertical pics.
Then find the compress button on the left.
Use the new pop up window to compress your pic to under 20k.
Click save as and give the pic a new name that tells you it's been optimized. I add the the letters OPT to the end of my new pic name, so I can tell.

Don't crop unless you have to, that tends to mess things up.
Any questions feel free to drop me a line! ;)

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