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How would you cut these

Started by Sherwood_Forest, January 31, 2005, 09:57:42 PM

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Sherwood_Forest

I am new to this forum...  been lurking for a few weeks. My buddy and I have access to an obscene quantity of White Oak, most of it 20" plus inches for 20 plus feet before the first branch. We are looking into starting a harvesting and processing venture.

However, I have a question to ask those of you more experienced sawyers, regarding the "fat and stubby" trees. Do you saw limb wood and why or why not. I have been told both yes and no. Below are some pictures I took of a Black Walnut and a White Oak. My 6' tall son is in the pictures for perspective. There are a significant number of trees in the "fat and stubby" range with these gargantuan limbs. Seems to me to be a shame not to get lumber from the branches as well, considering they are bigger than a lot of trees.

Thanks for looking... great forum... looking forward to making lumber!



Any job worth doing is worth doing well.

Brad_S.

If they were mine, I'd quarter saw the white oak.  ;D
Forget the limb wood, it's often highly tensioned from a century of fighting gravity. You will probably find the heart to be very off center in them, a sure red flag.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

oakiemac

Sherwood,

Welcome to the forum!
I couldn't view your pics for some reason. But to answer your question on the limb wood-it depends. If the branches grew vertically and the pith is centered in the log then the answer is absolutely yes. I got some red oak limb wood logs last winter and I asked the same question. Most people said try it and see what happens. I did this and I got some of the best RO lumber that I have seen.
You have to be careful though cause some limbs have a lot of reaction wood and can cause you fits.
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

Sherwood_Forest

Yeah... seems to be a shame that the walnut limb that my 6' son is sitting on is so big that his feet barely make it half way down the side...

The Oak has limbs that are much more vertical... might be worth the gamble... but will make sure that the wood is well away from the good stuff...
Any job worth doing is worth doing well.

dutchman

Qsaw your straight logs,and saw the limbs along the grain as thick as you can use.Air dry limbs with lots of weight on them.
You'll probably get about 50% straight and the rest will twist,curl or crown depending on how you want to look at it.
The limb warped pieces may make sellable benches and other craft pieces.
Cut it all.

chet

I have to agree with Oakie on this one. Those big horizontal limbs are going to have a lot of tension and compression wood.
On another note, with large hardwood trees. If you are not an experianced feller, you can damage a lot of wood.
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

rebocardo

> Do you saw limb wood and why or why not

Yes, though I try to go 2x size. You can find some pretty nice texture in oak limb wood.

Sherwood_Forest

Yeah... Chet,

dropping one of these bad boys would certainly create havoc upon impact. Would most likely engage the services of a professional to drop the limbs and haul everything to one location. Minimizing the damage to the tree will more than pay for the service in the way of saleable lumber...

... Imagine the crotch wood in that MOAW tree... limbs could make for some good bowl blanks... those guys will turn anything.....
Any job worth doing is worth doing well.

Sherwood_Forest

Rebocardo...

As a neophyte to the sawyer arena, when you say 2x what are you referencing?
Any job worth doing is worth doing well.

Smakman

Those are some amazing trees.  For the ones that have the huge horizontal limbs that probably won't make lumber, are they really worth the trouble for what you will get out of them?  Call me a sap, but I would rather be able to admire them still standing, but if they have to go anyway.....
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Sherwood_Forest

Smakman...

The walnut is marginal, for now. Christmas trees are planted all around the tree... outside the drip range.

The Oak though (and many more just like it), has to go. It overhangs the seed crops and jams up the equipment if you don't get them picked up... so, tree or $250K piece of equipment... the man says it got's to go... but I am with you, some trees need to stay just to marvel over them!
Any job worth doing is worth doing well.

Kirk_Allen

20"+?

I think you might want to get a new tape measure.  Those are some monsters that look more like 48"+ ;D

Sherwood_Forest

Kirk...

These are most definitely the exception... too much radiation from the polar cap during full moon total eclipse's between September and February... :P ;D ;D

These are more indicative of the 20"+ trees... sorry, no bodies for perspective comparison, but 90% are in the 2'+diameter range.

Any job worth doing is worth doing well.

ARKANSAWYER

  Since the size is so large on the walnut limbs and the crotches will be huge you should stay away from such trees.  What really needs to be done is let me know where they are standing and I will safely remove them and most of the limbs.   They have no use or value and will cause you great grief.  Also should they decide to remove the stump so at to plant more Christmas trees let me know and I will aide in removal so there will be no dumping fees to incur.  I take great pride in assisting in such things as I am a professional and make good coin so as to be able to afford a loss as will be incurred in such a venture as this.  Should you believe any of this I have some Ocean view property for sale in Bruno Arkansas for a fair price.
ARKANSAWYER
ARKANSAWYER

Sherwood_Forest

Arkmeister....

You are a prime example of why I joined this prestidigious forum! I have never met such helpful people!

As you can see in one of the pictures, we been cutting the limbs into firewood, but the going is tedious due to having to replace the chainsaw blade all the time. Seems it don't hold an edge as good as my axe. Besides, it's too heavy to chop with on branches over my head. This really calls for a professional, such as yourself.

... about that ocean front property... is it off the golf of Mexiko? Maybe we can make a deal to trade...

The trees are located at @#%^&%$*&^*%$@ &&% %^ ^%$@*(&%#. Let me know when you can come get 'um.

Robin the Hood in Sherwood.
Any job worth doing is worth doing well.

Ga_Boy

GanG Arky,

You bet me to the offer. 


Sherwood,

I agree that these trees are dangerous and need to be delt with in a porfessional manner by a highly trained and superbly edukated staff. 

Now depending on where these pesky trees are located I might be closer than Arky is and I've got ocean view property in Tennessee for sale or trade.

Want to deal. ;D



Mark
10 Acers in the Blue Ridge Mountains

Sherwood_Forest

Ga_Boy,

Well, I gots to be think'n purdy hard 'bout all these offurs com'in in... I been try'in to whack them trees and pull 'um out with a snowmobile, but pushing the dadgum thing takes 'bout ten big guys and three small girls...

Say, you think I cans convurt the snowmobile to work on the water... specially if'in I do a trade with one of yous, I could retire to the coast and ride the waves...

Robin the Hood in Sherwood
Any job worth doing is worth doing well.

ARKANSAWYER

Sorry Ga_boy but as mossy as them trees are I would supect them things is a standing on the west coast somewhere.  That would make me closer. ;D

  Fell the trees and focus on the crotch wood and think thick.  Even the limbs are worth something sawed thick.  Turning chuncks do not have to be long so even short straight section of them fat limbs will make turning blocks.   Walnut sales wholesale in 6 ft lengths and there are those who love crotch wood when it is cut right.  In the trunk where it is clear saw in 4/4,5/4, 8/4, and 12/4 and do not be afraid of very wide boards.  Should they split you can rip them down.  But if they stay together bow up on the coin as they are worth it.
  Yep you can see the gulf of Mexico from here just on the other side of LA and the lights of the Big Easy. ;)
ARKANSAWYER
ARKANSAWYER

Fla._Deadheader

Hey Arky, I remember seeing that ocean your talking about  while I was growing up out there :D :D. I'd look at the walnut very carefully when sawing into where the limbs are, I'll bet you can cut some pretty gun stocks out of it. ;)  Ed
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Sherwood_Forest

Well... I done been found out... dadgum moss gets me every time!! ;D ;)

Yeah, we have some serious Walnut trees in Oregon. One company not too far from me, sells 4" slabs from the heart starting at $2,500. Sells a bunch.

Gun stock material is one of the ideas we have discussed, as well as trying to get some flame veneer... walnut seems to be a little more stable.. and flame veneer can go for $20+ per sq. ft. And even the "scraps" become turning material... since turners turn roots to limbs without regard to grain orientation....

Oak on the other hand... not too familiar with the crotch wood for other uses...

Since my partner and I are just putting our business model together, we will possibly outsource the milling and kiln operations until we gear up to take over those functions for ourselves.

We are attending a logging conference in late Feb. to look at the Peterson Swing Blade. The Mobile Dimension mfg. is just 45 minutes away and we already toured the facilities. Still up in the air about our equipment choice... maybe a swinger and a band will find a home with us.

When the time comes to pull the trigger on cutting the first tree, we will let you all know....

Dave

Any job worth doing is worth doing well.

Kevin

I like milling lumber but I say kill the Christmas trees.  ;D

Buzz-sawyer

Your western Walnut is quite valuable....blows me away some of the pricing.....I would cut ALL you can get on the mill oak walnut , whatever..........cut mantles cut the crotches.its all good ;)
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

Sherwood_Forest

Here are a couple of Walnut slabs from a local source...

One is 20' x 48" x 3" ... going for $4400

The other one... well, you get the picture...
Any job worth doing is worth doing well.

rebocardo


Ianab

Yeah.. I can see why you want to make some use of those trees, especially that big walnut. 
A Peterson mill, maybe with a slabbing attachment would break down those big pieces easy enough, but maybe a small bandmill to resaw cants off the Peterson would be a good idea. As all the big / heavy stuff could be done with the swingblade a smaller manual bandsaw would let you resaw with less waste of valuable figured wood.
If you will be sawing up the wood onsite without heavy machinery to move logs the swingblade is the way to go.

The big Oak with mostly upright limbs is probably useable as well. It seems to be the horizontal  / leaning part that makes limb wood unstable

Meanwhile I'm off to look around for a Walnut tree like that  :D

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

D._Frederick

The walnut that grows here is NW Oregon is a lot softer wood than what grows in the eastern states. It is like working with are Pontrosa (sp) pine but without the pitch. I don't know if I would like a gun stock made out of it if it is larger than a 22 rifle.

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