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Log house logs

Started by jeff, March 10, 2001, 04:09:33 PM

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Jeff

I attended a home builders show today and talked to a log home rep. I won't say what company but it starts with Appa..

Anyways I asked him what the moisture content is of their logs at time of construction. His answer? They are pressure treated so they don't need to be dry. I asked him what the shrinkage factor was then. He said " no different then the guys who say that their logs are kiln dried." Hmmmm... He continued, " Because of the mass of manufactured logs, it was not possible to remove the moisture. Hmmm... He said kiln drying is ineffective on anything over 2 inches thick.

I then told him I was a sawyer in a sawmill up north and knew a little about wood. He seemed nervous after that. I said, I thought he was wrong.
What's the consensus on this?
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

timberbeast

Anyone who has built a deck,  etc,  knows the shrinkage factor of "fresh" pressure treated SYP.
For cabinetmaking,  I prefer air-dried,  but you have to allow much more for wood movement and never restrict cross-grain movement.  I think you caught a salesman "in pitch" and he was emabarassed.  Just one guy's opinion.
Where the heck is my axe???

Gordon

Jeff it sounds to me like you busted the salesman in the middle of his pitch. Does insert foot into mouth sound like it might be the perfect picture here. He was feeding you a bunch of the ka-ka.::)

Correct me if I'm wrong but the larger the mass the longer the drying time. Moisture content is just that.

Gordon

Ron Wenrich

I know of a few guys who kiln dry their wood.  One told me he had some cants that he dried down to 0%.  He had them in the kilns and forgot about them.

Pressure treated pine is a definite no for log homes.  It is one thing to have a deck treated with a toxin, and quite another to have a house.  You are introducing that toxin into a living enviroment and have no idea of the long term effects.  I smell lawsuit.

Most are using air dried stock.  Quite often they will tent the stock and have it treated for insects at the job site.  Gets rid of ants, borers and the like.

Borate treats are somewhat effective against rot, but it cannot take the weather.  They are non-toxic.  Same ingredient as Boraxo.

Defintie salesman who understands little about wood.  I love to go to furniture stores and listen to their line, as well.  Good entertainment.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Ron Scott

We have a pressure treating plant nearby for red pine utility poles. That is their main market for the pressure treated poles along with some landscape material. There is also a strong market for red pine cabin logs, but they are not pressure treated for home use. Air dried only. As you stated, one does not want the toxics in there home.
~Ron

Don P

Hi,This is Michelle, I'll let Don respond too, but this is a key issue in log home sales.  We have dealt with far too many dishonest sales people.  I understand that their bucks are on the line... but that's no excuse to lie, and too many do.  If you feel uncomfortable with a sales person, walk away. If you think the company may have merit, contact them directly, and relate your experience with that sales person. It may improve, it may not.  Go from there.  Don't accept false information.  If you don't feel comfortable, look else where.  There are LOTS of companies out there, keep looking.  Do your home work.  Too many people fall for a mystic or a sales pitch.  You are shelling out big bucks, go for reality.  Now, for Don's more moderate influence.....

Wood should be installed at a moisture content as close as possible to what it will see in service.The ability to manufacture a dry, dimensionally stable product exists. The niche exists for these individuals because we have failed to educate the consumer. And as consumers we buy cheap. Drying is either time or energy, this ups the cost of the project...initially. And lower up front cost sells.  

The treatments are normally with borates which are non toxic. They go in by diffusion and so work best on green material. Doesn't mean you can't dry it when you're done treating. A water repellant coating must be maintained to prevent rewetting from leaching the borates back out. They are a good thing. CCA, the green treatment, would not be a good log treatment chemical and use of treated woods indoors is limited by most codes. The rep should be able to provide a MSDS sheet.


There are  days I think that all the salesmen that couldn't pass the truth and veracity portion of the used car sales exam wound up selling log homes in my back yard.
:D:D

timberbeast

At the risk of advertising for someone I've never met,  Rapid River Rustic is a good company,  with a good,  honest crew.  My uncle sold logs to them for years.  A guy I know is a sawyer there.  They have a website.  Can't dry thick logs?  Hell,  if I keep my logs off the ground on posts and throw a tarp on top (not over the ends) Their weight drops by half in months.  Ever cut a green Hemlock?  A million pounds of water.  When the boards dry,  they're like spruce (splintery suckers,  though!)
Where the heck is my axe???

Jeff

Welcome to our Forum Michelle!
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Don P

I checked the company website on Jeff's manufacturer, they do just state air dried.

Notice that all building materials are sold at a marked moisture content. This establishes a standard that eliminates most drying related problems. Log home logs are exempt from this standard. :-/
In the industry  the terms air dry and kiln dry have no numerical value associated with them, hence the salesmans comment about his shrinkage being no greater than theirs. I have metered "kiln dry" logs at over 40% MC many times. The kiln was on, both doors were open, and the load landed on the truck.
Get the MC in writing!
My favorite is the salesman that told me the logs would dry rot if they were any drier.
 :D

Jeff

Guess what I get to do? I get to promote a log home site on this board. WHY? Because of an idea by forum member Don P.,accompanied an unnatural urge to know stuff by me, and a log cabin project started by forum member SAWTOOTH, we are building a website a little different then the normal "buy a log house from us" site. It's a site for people who, if given the chance, would build their own log house, and need some "KNOW HOW"

We are just getting started, but have a little content. I do this one in my "spare" time.;)

The Address is https://forestryforum.com/windyhill
Let us know what you think so far, and what you would like to see on this type of site.

Be sure to check out the tutorial on butt and pass

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Bill Johnson

Checked out the tutorial, its good. I'll be real interested in seeing the rest.
Now if any one asks me about log building I'll have some place to direct them to.
Bill

Jeff

Bill, Don has sent me a bunch of pictures to do some more, but I probably won't get to it right away. Also SAWTOOTH has started a cabin, and we will follow that to completion. I have his milling picture to put up, once again when I can.

I need some company to give me a grant so I can spend more time developing this important stuff, and not sawing wood for somebody else!
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Bill Johnson

If I ever win big in the lottery I'll cut you a cheque, that is if canadian dollars would be ok. :-)
Bill

james

I was reading old topics and came across this what ever happened to that website ???
been sitting in Baltimore for the past 6 days twiddling my thumbs waiting for a load
james

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