Still standing and this White Oak tree is available to me, for free. The problem is that it is......
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_3486.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1511974068)
about 34" DBH which would put a 16' log weighing close to 6K lbs. A Kubota skid steer would load it onto the sawmill, but would not be available to assist with the turning. This would clearly be the heaviest log that I have ever had on the sawmill and I have my doubts whether the log clamp and claw in tandem would be able to turn it.
Sure, I could buck it into two 8's, but I have no need for 8' lumber. I am sure that it would contain some amazing QS lumber but I am not in that market.
I have a couple of weeks to think about it.
Wow, that's one beast of a tree. My largest log to date was a 24" pine 16 footer and that was one bugger for me to work with. But it sure did produce a lot of lumber. Could not have done it without the JD4600 tractor and forks. A 34" oak log at 16 feet would require larger equipment, or would need outside help.
I find that pushing the limits adds a great deal to the learning, but boy does it eat up a lot of time and requires a lot of very careful thought.
This summer I put a ponderosa pine on my lt40 that I think averaged about 42" diameter. I have pictures of measurements on the large end of 42" and 45". It was 17 feet long with virtually no taper. The log weight calculator says almost 7400 lbs. I was able to turn using claw turner and my forklift. At 34" I think the claw turner would be in a little better location to turn. Not sure whether the weight would be an issue. Your mill should be a lot more powerful than mine, so I would guess it shouldn't be a problem.
Might sound crazy but could you halve it with a chainsaw first? Seems to be how the big trees are lugged out of the amazon on foot
We took the Alaskan mill over to a friends house who has a bandmill, he had a poplar that was too big. It was faster and more accurate to break it down with that than freehand splitting on with a saw, which isn't that bad either really.
He's running half our kerf... we'll work it out later, a good win/win ;D
There's a WO 54" at the flare we'll take the lucas and slabber to next week hopefully.
MM,
If you're in for adventure go for it. However, I've found with my small mill I'd rather saw two small ones that would equal the production of one big one. (1+1=2). Just my two cents!
Seems simple enough. Host a forum gathering. Everyone bring food to share and a cant hook.
Alan
My approach on logs like this is to quarter with a chainsaw. It solves many problems. And if you are quartering anyway, it saves s bunch of struggling, and relieves some of the stress.
I have sawn many 16 foot 36" - 38" butt SYP logs which would weigh in at about 5K pounds or probably less. They had some taper. This thing has virtually no taper.
Heck it may be hollow and no good anyway, but time will tell. smiley_headscratch I am just hating the thought of letting it get away and going to a landfill. I doubt that chainsaw quartering it is in my future.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_3488.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1511980785)
So here she stands.
I like the idea of splitting it with a chainsaw mill.
If I were closer or not working so darn much...
Jon
I sawed some monster Red Oak a few years back. One was so big that my mill (LT40 Super) could not lift it. The customer - a very skilled heavy equipment operator - put it on the mill with his excavator. It took me 4+ hours to saw that bad boy. After that I told him that was the last such huge log I will ever saw. The log was uglier than a frog's behind and didn't yield much good lumber anyway. He had three more that went onto the firewood pile.
I like the idea of making 8' logs, unless you just need 16 foot stock, and if this is the case,, why Q-saw?
Magicman,
You stated:"Sure, I could buck it into two 8's, but I have no need for 8' lumber. I am sure that it would contain some amazing QS lumber but I am not in that market."
What do you normally cut Oak into? What size? I cut my first Red Oak and it was beautiful... I cut 1X6 12-14' and 1X4 same lengths. That is just what worked out best with what I was sawing.
Better call Jake.
I'm pretty sure your mill is bigger than my LT35Hyd was, but I've milled several green firs that pushed the limits of my mill to the max weighing right around 9000 Pounds. (My crane has a scale). My 6000# lift truck wouldn't touch them, and they tipped my T320 tracked Bobcat that can move way heavier items than my lift truck.
Getting them on the mill was simple enough with my log loader and log deck. Turning them as you suspect is the hard part. By hand... forget it without 2 or 3 stout Canadian friends, 4 or 5 if only my American friends are around... The log turner would turn a well balanced log with no problems, other than the silly fact that it never had enough stroke to flip the log 90 degrees. I always had to start to rotate the log, balance it with the log clamp, regrab and continue. The biggest problem is that the turner always wanted to swing under the log to try to lift it from that position, which it simply couldn't do. I keep a bunch of thin chunks of wood that I bust to jam in the log turner to hold it open. Then snap and fall out once the log starts to roll. I suspect your overthinking it, as you'll likely have no issues.
I sold my LT35 and went for the 450 because of the larger logs I typically have to work with. Rumor has it that it's finally supposed to be built next week.
Go grab the logs and bring them home. You'll be fine.
Quote from: alan gage on November 29, 2017, 01:18:11 PM
Seems simple enough. Host a forum gathering. Everyone bring food to share and a cant hook.
Alan
Save it for the Sycamore Project next year? :laugh:
That is a beauty.
A chunk of my shoulder was a long cant hook on a healthy red oak log by myself. That mechanical advantage lever thing turns into swinging back fast and hard when you lose. "To the moon Alice", be careful with those honkers.
Sounds like you need to invest in a chainsaw mill and slab that bad boy into live edge slabs. Everyone always needs a reason to buy another chainsaw....right.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/33477/DSCN0819.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1466890343)
Linn if ya need some help I'm do for a road trip 8)
I've sawn 38"x16' Red Oak a few times!
My poor old mill loaded and turned them with no issues.
Just be systematic as you are moving the log on the mill, they are heavy and they can kill!
I really don't think you will have problems with the log, Lynn!
You'll never know unless you make the attempt!
Lynn, I told myself I will never deal with a big one like that ever again. Takes so much time to saw one of those big boys. :o
If you do saw it. I would fell it. Seal the ends and put it to the side for a spring saw date. By that time the log could loose close to 1,000 pounds of water weight. ;D
This may sound stupid, but I have seen the following done on you tube(seriously). Black powder! Seriously. I want to try it bad. I have seen them make a cut in the top center of a huge log, the depth of long bar (not sure of the length) with a chain saw. They then poured a pound of black powder in the slit, ran a fuse down to the powder, put sand and dirt over the top, light it and run!! It worked very nice on that huge log. One day I would love to try it. If no houses or anything is around, I would surely try it. It split it almost perfectly in half.
Lynn,
Don't do it! At least that is what I continually tell myself after i cut a big log. Since I am older now I tend to forget that I should not do it any more.
My experience with logs that big has been both positive and negative. I had a part of a very old yellow poplar that sadly was only about 5' long- neighbor didn't realize I had a mill and had someone haul most of the tree off. The section I got was too small for his friend to take. Long story short: after much chain saw whittling, I got the 44" diameter log onto the mill and started slicing it down. WOW! Some of the most beautiful dark colored wood I've ever seen and certainly some of the prettiest I've been able to work with. Made a desk and work table out of some and they are glorious. Lesson here: sometimes there's lumber inside the monster that makes it worthwhile. Besides, poplar is one of the easiest woods to saw there is.
Red oak, now, that's another matter. Heavy, yes, but if you can get the big boy on the mill and are actually able to begin making cuts, again WOW! Some of the most beautiful red oak I have came from a log that (again) I had to whittle down to get on the mill. Reminds me, I need to pull some of that- been drying a few years now and should be ready to make something with.
Now for the cons list. My son the plumber was working at a house out in the country (new construction plumbing) and said, "Dad, you might want to come and see his burn pile." Turns out he had a big excavator rip up some really old pecan trees: biggest was about 3' diameter. I managed to get some 5' long sections onto a trailer and hauled home; longer sections were too heavy for me to handle. Problem then was I'd left my backhoe out in the country and had no way to unload them. After a couple of hours of trying this and that, mainly involving my biggest tractor still here and several chains, I just chained one of the logs to a big pine tree near the mill and goosed my non-4-wheel-drive F150 as fast as it would go till I hit the end of the chain. Wham and Pow! Took several jerk-and-backup pulls before I finally got one off. In the process, tore the back lip off the trailer (ouch!). Got several loads this way (trailer was already busted, so why not?) and then the fun began.
If you've ever sawed pecan, you know it gives new meaning to the definition of a hard wood. Probably ate up a dozen blades over the course of a week sawing all those pecan logs. Mill went through them real, real slow but hey, cutting a full-throat log is putting a whole lot of friction on the blade even with lube. Ended up with mostly 1 1/2" slabs that I planned to make furniture and counter tops with. Long story short: after air drying a couple years, I found an entirely brand new meaning for the "hard" in hardwood. Couln't sand the slabs (too wide for a planar) and couldn't do anything to smooth them down. To this day, I have a few dozen of these slabs waiting for me to buy a humongous planar that can handle them. Keep waiting, pecan, your day will come (or not).
Summary: big logs are a real pain to work, and can be dangerous even with good toys to move them around. Sometimes you get great lumber, and sometimes you get what would be great lumber if only you could figure out how to work it. Maybe a cutting torch? Maybe an asphalt road refinisher? Maybe a few young and stupid summer helpers who will work at the impossible for a while because they don't know what's impossible yet?
Life's challenges are what make it fun, so if you want to have lots of fun (and oft times get incredible lumber), go for the big logs everyone else is afraid to touch.
LJ
I sawed a red oak a couple weeks back for a customer that was 32" on the small end and almost 40" at the butt, 16' long. We ran a chalk line down the middle of the log and I handed him my 372 with a 24" bar - only because I was sawing other logs - it took him about 15 minutes without a ripping chain to cut down the log with the bar buried, done over a couple of passes. We rolled the log and did the same, maybe another 10 - 15 minutes and the log was in two pieces right down the pith, which of course was split some horribly so it really did not waste any wood. We put one half onto the mill at a time and I broke down those halves. I cut some wide live edge pieces and quarter sawed some really beautiful wood. I had no issues standing up or rolling a half log.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34297/Large_log.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1512010715)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34297/Large_log_2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1512010747)
I'd do it. ;D
My little mill maxes out at 36", but as you can see I didn't move the log very far from the stump. Tractor could lift one end of the log to swing it around clear of the stump, and slip some bunks underneath, then set the mill up around it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/20171115_123107.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1510728398)
I halved a 34" water oak with my 20" Husky and doubt I will ever do it again with a small saw. Took 2.5 hrs. Great wood and worth the effort.
Bob
Quote from: Ianab on November 29, 2017, 10:05:28 PM
I'd do it. ;D
My little mill maxes out at 36", but as you can see I didn't move the log very far from the stump. Tractor could lift one end of the log to swing it around clear of the stump, and slip some bunks underneath, then set the mill up around it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/20171115_123107.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1510728398)
Those big logs are where the swing mills really shine. Nice log. Besides at that weight they are not going to shift too much so you can even mill short stuff.
Quote from: ljmathias on November 29, 2017, 09:01:48 PM
If you've ever sawed pecan, you know it gives new meaning to the definition of a hard wood. Probably ate up a dozen blades over the course of a week sawing all those pecan logs. Mill went through them real, real slow but hey, cutting a full-throat log is putting a whole lot of friction on the blade even with lube. Ended up with mostly 1 1/2" slabs that I planned to make furniture and counter tops with. Long story short: after air drying a couple years, I found an entirely brand new meaning for the "hard" in hardwood. Couln't sand the slabs (too wide for a planar) and couldn't do anything to smooth them down. To this day, I have a few dozen of these slabs waiting for me to buy a humongous planar that can handle them. Keep waiting, pecan, your day will come (or not).
LJ
Google router plane.
If I'm not mistaken, I believe the mill is rated for a load of 4400lbs. I would not risk my investment, but that's just me.
The really big ones just tear stuff up.
BOOOOM. Blow it in half. I think a pound of ffff powder is 20 something dollars. Go to you tube and type in" blowing log in half with gunpowder." I have some cannon fuse if you need any. Matter of fact, I have some powder too. Let me know if you want to try it.
Quote from: Ianab on November 29, 2017, 10:05:28 PM
I'd do it. ;D
My little mill maxes out at 36", but as you can see I didn't move the log very far from the stump. Tractor could lift one end of the log to swing it around clear of the stump, and slip some bunks underneath, then set the mill up around it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/20171115_123107.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1510728398)
x2 swingmill ;)
Kbeitz: thanks for the idea on router planes. Great for making grooves and fixing/smoothing dado cuts. Not sure how a hand-drawn groove cutter helps make pecan flat- maybe there's something I'm missing?
Interesting development regarding pecan. I decided to build an end-table to put my books, computer, phone and "stuff" on next to the couch I usually work on. Explored my stacks of dry wood, some 5-6 years drying, some since Katrina. Found some light weight yellow poplar I forgot I had- just the right width to double up for the table. Planed them and measured one board at 12 feet = enough for all the shelves ranging from 12" to 22" to 36" so that's great. Had another piece I thought was also poplar- color about the same but t little darker. Planar smoothed it nice so I cut it into thirds to make the legs. When I started screwing it all together I realized my mistake: pecan! Ouch. Too late in the day to find another poplar board so decided to muscle through. Broke off several screw heads and one drill bit, stripped three drive bits but finally was able to set screws (most of the way anyway) with enormous effort pushing as hard as I could so the driver would keep spinning the screw and not just the bit rounding out the screw head. Whew, what a job. Finally got it finished and only took me about twice as long as it would have with all poplar boards. Good news: those pecan legs will never split or give in any way, locked in with multiple screws held tight by the hardest wood I have access to...
BTW, you all probably know this but pecan is the outcast brother of the outcast hardwood hickory. Make beautiful furniture if you have the right tools and your hands and arms don't fall off. Mine almost did, and I'm sitting here aching from the effort and trying to figure out why I didn't just pull another board. >:(
LJ
ljmathias,
Guys will use a router plane, think end mill for wood, set the bowed slab up so it won't move, then put a frame around the slab. That frame serves to hold a sled in which the router rides both across and along the board. The router bit is below the sled and comes in contact with the wood, depth is controlled via the router plunge depth. Then you make passes back and forth over the slab removing material as you go. In reality you are surfacing the material not planing it, but the end result is the same.
If you set up your slab right, off set the high and low points, and have enough material to work with you can end up with a flat surface when it's all said and done. There are videos on youtube showing guys doing this.
A better description is a "Router Bridge". The plunge router is mounted on a "Bridge" of some sort, so it can be moved back and forth above the board. As long as your rails are straight and parallel, everything over a certain level gets skimmed off, leaving a perfectly level surface that just needs a bit of sanding.
They can be varying sizes and complexity, This is my rig on the frame of my old mill.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/ianab_slab_surfacer05.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1192060635)v
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/ianab_slab_surfacer04.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1192060634)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/ianab_slab_surfacer06.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1192060635)
You don't need that fancy, lots are made simply from plywood with the router sliding in a U shape bridge. Just it was the easiest option for me as the rails / height adjust / carriage etc were already there. The swing blade mills even have the option of a "planer head" that replaces the blade with an oversize "router bit". Gives you a ~20 hp "router bridge for cleaning up slabs even faster.
My option is still two weeks away, but if I can get it, I'm gonna saw it. I'll jump butt it to get rid of the butt swell and let him load it onto the sawmill. I will not split it nor buck it shorter. It will all be sawn into 16' 2X8's for my own use.
bridge repair material for at the tree farm?
PC
They now sell a face cutting router bit with replaceable knifes for this job.
link (https://www.toolstoday.com/mini-insert-spoilboard-surfacing-rabbeting-flycutter-leveler-surface-planer-and-bed-skimming-router-bit-with-scorers-2-2-design.html?variantids=11847,0&keywords=RC-2249/&country=US&gdffi=df1cb0f3ab644accbe5cae9671f148bf&gdfms=ECEC8807A7CF4C8280D45CA721B935C7&gclid=EAIaIQobChMItbeAp4Do1wIVgX9-Ch0CiwDrEAQYASABEgLJN_D_BwE)
Not sure how this topic morphed into router sleds, but here is mine. Capacity is about 50" x 90":
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/RouterTable1.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1453601839)
Made it using angle iron and sliding glass door wheels.
I'm gathering up stuff to put one on my saw mill bed.
PC, yes materals for the farm. The pier needs new joints and the barn needs work. It is so seldom that I have access to White Oak that I cannot let this pass. I got plenty of replacement bridge decking with the other logs.
A white oak that nice big and straight around here would bring at minimum a $1 a bf. I'd cut it down load it up and sell it to a mill.
What would be on stump price?
Here in the Hoosier State, it would be worth about 600-700 bucks if it graded average; top quality could go all the way up to 1200.
Quote from: John S on November 30, 2017, 07:57:10 AM
If I'm not mistaken, I believe the mill is rated for a load of 4400lbs. ...
The hydraulic loader is rated for 4400 pounds. As long as you don't drop the log on the mill, it should take it.
Lynn, when I had my manual mill I managed to turn some "impossible" logs by dousing the bed rails and side stops with a water/detergent solution. It's amazing what a little extra lubrication can do.
Didn't mean for this thread to morph into one on router sleds. Seems to fit given the topic of really big logs and what to do with them.
Thanks for all the information on the router use for cleaning up slabs. Never would have thought of that and looks doable. I'll see what I can fab up for one...
LJ
Quote from: Brucer on December 03, 2017, 01:25:56 AM
Quote from: John S on November 30, 2017, 07:57:10 AM
If I'm not mistaken, I believe the mill is rated for a load of 4400lbs. ...
The hydraulic loader is rated for 4400 pounds. As long as you don't drop the log on the mill, it should take it.
Lynn, when I had my manual mill I managed to turn some "impossible" logs by dousing the bed rails and side stops with a water/detergent solution. It's amazing what a little extra lubrication can do.
There's always time for lube.
Thanks Bruce, I had not thought of lubing the bed rails.
For some reason "slop your dripper" (Archie Campbell) came to mind. :D
:D :D :D
We set up on the 54" butt white oak today, although, somebody went and swapped it out for a red :D
We fought it all morning through the first log but finally got dialed in here. The slope and saw are right, it didn't need me, I walked around and got a shot in action ;D.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/bigoakop.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1512350638)
I sure wish we had made this connection 6 months ago, the guy does shoulder surgery... I'd have been happy to trade work :D
I usually use water and liquid soap, 'cause it's cheap. Cooking oil works, too. So does snow (oh, wait -- I don't think you get any of that :D).
Don't forget the side stops as well. I just put some lube on the log above the side stops.
Well I didn't get it. :-\
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_3612.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1513347110)
While I was sawing yesterday the tree service dropped the White Oak and bucked it into 11' 11" lengths. smiley_headscratch Tree service guy said that he found a market for them.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_3613.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1513347093)
35" Butt. I would have loved to have gotten it.
I am going to show my ignorance here, but here goes anyway. What kind of market would one cut them at 11' 11"??
Not an ignorant question at all and notice that I put a smiley_headscratch behind the 11' 11". I would have been interested in buying a 16½' log but those were worthless to me.
Quote from: starmac on December 15, 2017, 09:27:41 PM
I am going to show my ignorance here, but here goes anyway. What kind of market would one cut them at 11' 11"??
So it can fit in his truck for fire wood. :D :D :D
Actually that could be exactly right. :-\
Quote from: Magicman on December 15, 2017, 09:34:10 PM
Not an ignorant question at all and notice that I put a smiley_headscratch behind the 11' 11". I would have been interested in buying a 16½' log but those were worthless to me.
I'd speculate somebody just made the naughty list >:(
I have a huge market for 10 foot air dried and kiln dried Oak. A green log that comes in at 11'11" makes my day. Drying slabs and lumber that's Oak is gonna check up on the ends. That little bit of extra will be sawn off after drying and leave me with a nice 10' slab or board.
I would have bucked it at least 12' 3" to give the customer a choice, but I understand what David is saying. Of course I don't sell so it matters not.
I just wish that I had been home so that I could have had a choice. :-\
That is what I was thinking. The only market we have here for 12 foot logs is firewood, period. if I was buying for my own mill and someone brought a whack of 11'11" or even 12 foot even, I would be paying for 10 footers.
That makes sense. I was interested in 16½' for trailer decking. I had previously gotten all of the 12' bridge decking lumber that I needed.
My guess is he didnt have a tape measure. some walnut loggers here in my area dont even carry a tape measure.Buyers will buy 6' and up on walnut logs.
MM,
I have a whack of pecker pole post oak trees that you can cut 16.5' for your trailer floor and I will give you what you need. They will not be too heavy. The commute is a killer i bet, but if you are by this way, you cut them down and I will load them 4 ya or we can saw them on wwsjr's old mill and send ya home with them. This deal does NOT include installation.
I remember how good you were to help out Mdean when we bought her mill. Thank you.
PC
I have had my share of big logs and now leave them for the young bucks to deal with. ;)
That being said, I do understand you needing the lumber that would of come off it. Hope you find another to soot your needs, hopping its smaller to make handling easier !!! :)
Marcell.
I think they cut veneer logs and the logs they send to china an odd length.
The hardwood mill by me loads lots of oak into containers and they all get lined up and trimmed while the buyer is there.
Than mans looks like he's from china.
I'm i allowed to say that ?
The only reason that I was interested in this tree/log was because it was next door to where we live. It wasn't a need but a want for future use because I seldom have an opportunity to snag White Oak.
My next door neighbor is presently taking down two Cherrybark Red Oak trees that are between us.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_3621.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1513449707)
This picture was taken from where I am sitting. I have no use for the logs and my firewood shed is full.