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General Forestry => Sawmills and Milling => Topic started by: irvi00 on August 10, 2017, 08:26:56 PM

Title: Cooks sharpener
Post by: irvi00 on August 10, 2017, 08:26:56 PM
Time for me to look into sharpening my own blades. The cooks cat claw sharpener and dual tooth setter looks like a good combo for the money. Anyone using it? Pros or cons? Anything out there better? Open to any and all experience and opinions.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Ga Mtn Man on August 10, 2017, 08:52:54 PM
Hey Allen-  I pulled my mill right past your place yesterday on the way down to a job just outside of Alto.  I keep meaning to stop by y'alls place and say hi.  If I were buying new, I'd go with a WM CBN sharpener.  Way less of a learning curve and very consistent results, from what I've been told.

Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: irvi00 on August 10, 2017, 08:54:29 PM
You have to stop by sometime!!!!!
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Ga Mtn Man on August 10, 2017, 08:56:58 PM
I have to come in to town tomorrow.  I may just take a little side trip out your way.  When's your less-busy time?
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: bandmiller2 on August 10, 2017, 08:59:39 PM
I have the Cooks cats claw and I'am well pleased. Its a robust machine and will last a lifetime. Most of the parts are commonly available, although through Cooks the parts are reasonable. One advantage of the cat is its adaptability especially if you have different brands and spacing of band teeth. Don't fret over the number of different cams, myself I use one for almost all bands. The guys will be along to tout the shaped wheel machines they are a good option but are quite specific. A good dual tooth setter is important as setting is boring. You may consider sharpening bands for others it won't take you long to pay off the sharpener. Frank C.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: irvi00 on August 10, 2017, 09:00:11 PM
The WM shapeners are quite a bit more money. I've been studying hard at several different machines. The cook looks like best bang for the buck but I'd love to hear some "real" talk from real users. I've already spent 500 bucks to have blades sharpened in 6 months. Time for me to learn how to do it myself.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: irvi00 on August 10, 2017, 09:01:36 PM
Thanks bandmiller2!
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: irvi00 on August 10, 2017, 09:02:40 PM
Ga Mtn Man, come on by anytime. I'm there 9-5, everyday.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Banjo picker on August 10, 2017, 11:07:18 PM
I have the Cooks cat claw sharpener and a single tooth setter.  I love the sharpener, but do spend the money and get the dual tooth setter, like bandmiller2 said, "it is boring" with a single tooth setter. Banjo
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: redprospector on August 11, 2017, 01:13:13 AM
I've got a Cat Claw sharpener, and single tooth setter. I've got no complaints. I may upgrade to a dual tooth setter some day, but I'm satisfied with the sharpener.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: barbender on August 11, 2017, 02:01:50 AM
Another vote for the Cook's sharpener here. I like the versatility of the unit, too. I've never used the WM CBN sharpeners, they look like a really nice set up, although I think having to run the cutting oil would be a pain. From what I've read, a lot of the folks that are running the WM CBN machines and say they would "never go back" to a drag grinder were using the WM drag grinder, which sounds like it may have been finicky and built a bit light? I don't think they'd go back, regardless, but maybe the difference in grind quality between the  Cook's and the CBN isn't as great. My .02
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Peter Drouin on August 11, 2017, 06:12:52 AM
I had a drag WM one when I started a long time ago. When I got too busy I went with the CBN.  :o :o :o :o
With the CBN you can make the blade new again. For the $$$ your way ahead with the CBN
Payed off the CBN sharpener and setter in less than a year.
Less work and a better job.
Use someone's rock or watch one work, then watch a CBN work, Then look at the two blades, Your mind will be made up fast.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: kelLOGg on August 11, 2017, 07:21:27 AM
I have had the Cook sharpener and single tooth setter for 16 years and am pleased with both, although a dual setter would be nicer.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Chuck White on August 11, 2017, 07:30:46 AM
I also vote CatClaw!

I bought mine in 2009 and figuring at $7.00 sharpening fee, the sharpener and setter paid for themselves somewhere near the middle of 2010.

One thing I really like about the CatClaw is that it is heavy-built!
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: irvi00 on August 11, 2017, 08:49:27 AM
Thanks for all the info!
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: YellowHammer on August 11, 2017, 11:03:53 PM
Quote from: Peter Drouin on August 11, 2017, 06:12:52 AM
I had a drag WM one when I started a long time ago. When I got too busy I went with the CBN.  :o :o :o :o
With the CBN you can make the blade new again. For the $$$ your way ahead with the CBN
Payed off the CBN sharpener and setter in less than a year.
Less work and a better job.
Use someone's rock or watch one work, then watch a CBN work, Then look at the two blades, Your mind will be made up fast.

smiley_thumbsup
I had a Cooks sharpener and used it for maybe three years.  It's a good sharpener, and as people said, nothing wrong with it and it will last forever.  I settled on a couple blade profiles I like and for various reasons, bought a BMS 250 CBN about 3 months ago.  All I can say is if Cooks rates an "A" then this is an "A+" and worth every penney.
I still use my Cooks dual tooth, as it sets accurately and fast. 
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: LeeB on August 12, 2017, 06:00:06 AM
Quote from: Chuck White on August 11, 2017, 07:30:46 AM
One thing I really like about the CatClaw is that it is heavy-built!

Heavy is the truth. If you plan on moving it much you should invest in a truss.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: customsawyer on August 12, 2017, 06:13:24 AM
I have both the Cooks and the WM CBN sharpeners in my shop. Come on down and take a look at them and then make up your own mind.  ;)
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Mooseherder on August 12, 2017, 06:31:43 AM
Quote from: customsawyer on August 12, 2017, 06:13:24 AM
I have both the Cooks and the WM CBN sharpeners in my shop. Come on down and take a look at them and then make up your own mind.  ;)
By golly, looky here.
http://youtu.be/qJOL0xb6VsY
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Chuck White on August 12, 2017, 07:52:22 AM
Another thing to consider in choosing whether to go with the "drag style" or "CBN" sharpener is whether or not you will be sharpening blades for other people!

They will likely have blades with different profiles than what you have, in which case IMHO the drag style would be more forgiving due to the CBN wheels being very specific!
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: irvi00 on August 12, 2017, 08:47:45 PM
Great info!! Thanks to all! I'm gonna watch and learn for a little while. Can't afford it just yet. I'll have to bust a few more knots.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: irvi00 on August 12, 2017, 08:50:38 PM
Customsawyer, I might just take you up on that in the near future.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: 4x4American on August 12, 2017, 09:53:55 PM
Quote from: irvi00 on August 12, 2017, 08:50:38 PM
Customsawyer, I might just take you up on that in the near future.


I dont think you could ask for a better deal.  CBN and a stone side by side with a guy who's got more experience than probably more than 3/4 of the forum...PS he has a beer tooth :D
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: irvi00 on August 16, 2017, 06:16:21 PM
I don't intend to sharpen for other people, I'm busy enough as it is. The CBN might be my best option. Customsawyer, if I get a chance I would definitely like to come down and watch both machines work!
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: irvi00 on August 16, 2017, 07:33:20 PM
So I'm going to ask a dumb question. But I have to ask anyway. The WM sharpener with CBN wheels, can I use that for other brands of blades or am I confined solely to WM blades? I think I already know the answer but just asking. Lately I've become very fond of Lenox blades from Precision Saw works.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: bandmiller2 on August 16, 2017, 07:38:41 PM
If you use a WM CBN your Lenox bands would just have a WM profile. You would probably never notice the difference in how they look or cut. Frank C.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: irvi00 on August 16, 2017, 07:51:03 PM
Thanks bandmiller2. That's what I figured. A dumb question is one that isn't asked. But I had to ask it. I'm leaning towards the WM BMS 250 sharpener and either the cooks or Suffolk setter.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Magicman on August 16, 2017, 10:25:56 PM
It's my understanding that blades with an even slightly different profile are not kind to CBN wheels because the reshaping unnecessarily wears the wheels.  My Wood-Mizer ReSharp in GA will not accept anything other than WM blades.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: pineywoods on August 16, 2017, 10:43:44 PM
A cbn wheel needs to match the profile of the blade. Otherwise, excessive wear on the wheel. I converted my wm drag type sharpener to use a cbn wheel. Used it to re-profile about 50 blades. The cbn wheel is shot...$150  but still worth it.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: bandmiller2 on August 17, 2017, 07:47:43 AM
Any of you CBN'ers tried regritting the wheels, or at least the heavily worn parts. ?? Frank C.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: YellowHammer on August 17, 2017, 08:14:08 AM
Quote from: pineywoods on August 16, 2017, 10:43:44 PM
A cbn wheel needs to match the profile of the blade. Otherwise, excessive wear on the wheel. I converted my wm drag type sharpener to use a cbn wheel. Used it to re-profile about 50 blades. The cbn wheel is shot...$150  but still worth it.
I've heard the same thing, and I have a passel of WM blades that I ground with the Cooks drag sharpener, but I've been taking very light passes and haven't noticed any damage, yet.  I'm watching closely, and I may trash the wheel, but I feel it has already been a good trade up.  My goal is to resahrpen and use up all my WM blades sharpened with the Cooks, and that way I can just push the CBN as far as it will go and hopefully it will last long enough to get them all.  After that, I will only have WM profiles, and I can get a new wheel if I need to.   

With the BMS 250, which is the low end model, I'm impressed with its accuracy and very clean grind.  I sharpen after I set, and it has made the setting operation much more accurate.  Almost no burr to remove and about twice the tooth consistency, measured with the setters dial indicators, pre set. Zero burn. 

Certainly, some stink from the oil, some mess, and I have taken to using latex gloves when handling the blades.  There is a learning curve, but after a few blades it was pretty routine. 

Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Cutting Edge on August 17, 2017, 07:56:57 PM
Quote from: irvi00 on August 16, 2017, 07:33:20 PM

The WM sharpener with CBN wheels, can I use that for other brands of blades or am I confined solely to WM blades?


There are wheels available for all the Kasco WoodMaxx profiles.  There are several manufacturers that market profiles that mimic each other and one CBN wheel would very effectively work for all of them. 

Conversely, there are some profiles on the market that are very specific and you would be much better off to have a CBN wheel that is meant for that specific profile in lieu of altering it to match.

Examples - You wouldn't want to take a Kasco 4 WoodMaxx and turn it into the Kasco 7 SuperMaxx or take a WM 9 deg and turn it into a WM 4 deg.  Alot of material to remove.



Quote from: Magicman on August 16, 2017, 10:25:56 PM

It's my understanding that blades with an even slightly different profile are not kind to CBN wheels because the reshaping unnecessarily wears the wheels. 



Au Contraire.  There are CBN wheels on the market that are indeed specifically for this purpose.  It could be a CBN wheel for a simple hook angle change, all the way to a full out profile change and prototyping.

There are several of us here on the FF that use "regular" CBN wheels for re-profiling blades to meet our's or a customer's specific needs.  Not for a mere 50 blades... for 100's of blades and still going strong... just can't be sourced from WM.



To address irvi00's original question,

Peter D. stated "Use someone's rock or watch one work, then watch a CBN work.  Your mind will be made up fast".  A trip to customsawyer's would provide that opportunity. 

Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Magicman on August 17, 2017, 09:03:37 PM
We are both speaking of generalities so I do not see the disagreement??  ::)
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Cutting Edge on August 17, 2017, 09:24:56 PM
Oh, there is no disagreement, maybe just a misunderstanding of how you interpreted my post.  Based on your concluding smiley, it seems that may be the case.

I relayed information based on facts and real world experience/application to help the OP try to make an informed and educated decision including examples and details.  I do not feel there were any "generalities" on my part in any fashion.  The OP is looking to make a significant investment and wants to do so as best as he can.  Information based on conjecture and here-say, does not aid him in any manner, and could very possibly lead him to a make purchase that might not be the best for his specific long-term goals.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Magicman on August 17, 2017, 10:31:30 PM
QuoteIt's my understanding that blades with an even slightly different profile are not kind to CBN wheels because the reshaping unnecessarily wears the wheels.
And this is a statement of fact, not conjecture.  The degree of wear will be determined by how much the profile differs, but the wear will be there.

Yes, we address the PM's specific question but always remember that there are many members and guests that are also reading that may have a slightly or very different situation and are trying to glean information that will aid in their decision making.

I was never questioning your knowledge or expertise.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: 4x4American on August 17, 2017, 10:58:20 PM
 :P
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: gmmills on August 17, 2017, 10:59:42 PM
irvi00,  I see you are thinking of buying a BMS250 CBN Grinder. Very wise choice compared to a drag, Cook's,style grinder. I have been sharpening my own blades for over 16 yrs. Over this length of time I have experienced the astounding evolution in blade maintenance equipment. The CBN sharpeners are far superior to any drag style sharpener. Yes, to all you doubters, over the years I have had the unfortunate necessity to have to use a drag style grinder, never again. I currently own 2 CBN sharpeners a BMS250 And an older Pro Series which is the same unit that Customsawyer owns.

   The only Dual tooth setters that I would even consider purchasing are the WM or the Suffolk, Timberwolf , setters. I have personally owned a Cook's dual tooth setter for as lengthy 14 days and sent it back. I could not get that thing back on the truck fast enough.  All Cooks Dual tooth setters have a major design flaw. They do not have clamping system that will hold the blade body stable prior to the bending anvils contacting the tooth to be set. Without this feature the blade body is accentually twisted as the teeth are being bent. This causes extreme inconsistencies in tooth set. The other two, WM and Suffolk have a two stage clamping feature which allows for far more accurate set tolerances.

    Hope this helps you to make an informed decision before you spend your hard earned money.       
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Cutting Edge on August 17, 2017, 11:26:40 PM
Quote from: Magicman on August 17, 2017, 10:31:30 PM
QuoteIt's my understanding that blades with an even slightly different profile are not kind to CBN wheels because the reshaping unnecessarily wears the wheels.
And this is a statement of fact, not conjecture.  The degree of wear will be determined by how much the profile differs, but the wear will be there.




Would you mind sharing your experience with CBN wheels ? 


Quote from: Magicman on August 17, 2017, 10:31:30 PM


Yes, we address the PM's specific question but always remember that there are many members and guests that are also reading that may have a slightly or very different situation and are trying to glean information that will aid in their decision making.



Yes, and that is why I posted the information that I did.  To help unmuddy the waters.  There is already enough false and mis-leading information about this industry as it is which makes for alot of confusion, especially to someone who is new.

Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: MobileSawMilSlo on August 18, 2017, 12:45:53 AM
Hi guys

Can you please tell me how many times can you sharpen blades with CBN before changing the CBN for the new one?

I have opportunity to buy drag style sharpener for aprox 300$ (sharpener is cooled with oil) but they way I see it from your words, the CBN is better.

Regards, Dejan
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Peter Drouin on August 18, 2017, 05:53:19 AM
Quote from: MobileSawMilSlo on August 18, 2017, 12:45:53 AM


Can you please tell me how many times can you sharpen blades with CBN before changing the CBN for the new one?



Regards, Dejan




I get 600 + blades with one CBN
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: xlogger on August 18, 2017, 07:11:44 AM
With Richard advise I got the WM250 and wheels from him, really happy with how my blades cut now and lasting longer also. Not sure how long the wheel will last but holding on well now. Richard has been very helpful with me on getting started. I'd sure take his advice and knowledge on wheels.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Magicman on August 18, 2017, 08:07:53 AM
Quote from: Cutting Edge on August 17, 2017, 11:26:40 PM
Would you mind sharing your experience with CBN wheels ? 
Zero.  I will simply defer to the largest blade manufacturer and resharpener in the world...Wood-Mizer.

As I stated earlier Richard, I was never questioning your knowledge or expertise.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: drobertson on August 18, 2017, 10:15:56 AM
Quote from: irvi00 on August 10, 2017, 08:26:56 PM
Time for me to look into sharpening my own blades. The cooks cat claw sharpener and dual tooth setter looks like a good combo for the money. Anyone using it? Pros or cons? Anything out there better? Open to any and all experience and opinions.
All I have is an opinion. But its based on several different folks supplying resharps to me in the past.
One of which was the "number one manufacturer of band blades" then others followed after my less than satisfaction with the blades as well as the resharp service. Speaking with many folks in these parts that have grew up sawing, made it a family tradition in many cases, I followed their advice many times.  To sum it all up, just my opinion, I figure any tool would work, some better than others, some less expensive as the others. The bottom line is what works for you and your application and budget.  One thing to always remember about budgeting for equipment is how will it perform in the long haul. If you shell out bucks and ultimately become unsatisfied, are you making enough to justify replacing for the better?  It's all a learning curve, and listening to those who have been down the road, hands on in my opinion have the best advice.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Chuck White on August 18, 2017, 03:08:07 PM
I use only my Cat-Claw sharpener and single-tooth setter!

Not looking any further, completely satisfied with what I have!   :)
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Bluejay27 on August 18, 2017, 05:54:09 PM
I cut a lot of tree service logs and reclaimed lumber, and often enough knock 1/16"+ off the tips. My two tricks on the BMS250 to deal with this are either stagger the grind or drop down to a shorter profile (i.e. 10/32 to 9/29).

By stagger the grind, I mean push the blade too far about 1/32" so the top is ground without having to grind the gullet. I then do a light pass to get the burr on the tip of the tooth. This grinds a lot faster than 2 proper heavy grinds and I can shorten the tooth relative to the gullet without issues.

I have made mistakes and damaged wheels, as well as intentional done an abusive grind to make a custom metal-sawing profile, but I've still only gone through 3 wheels in at least 1000 sharpenings. Especially at $150/wheel now, that isn't bad at all. I go through oil faster than that, although I now use used transmission and hydraulic oil (absolutely no engine oil, carcinogenic!) along with a good respirator and gloves. So I have no issue with re-profiling, and I regularly sharpen non-WM blades for customers (of course I only use WM, the 1-1/2x0.050" doublehard is my new favorite on the LT40).
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: irvi00 on August 18, 2017, 07:38:23 PM
This is all great info and thanks to all! I see pros and cons on both sides, (drag vs. CBN). I went through 60 WM bands first thing, I wasn't happy with the performance. Anytime I slowed the feed down, (wide cuts, knots...etc.) I was getting this terrible wavy cut on the surface. After I had them sharpened and set from a guy with a professional shop, this phenomenon went away. No matter how fast or slow I fed the cut I got the same smooth finish. I've since bought a batch of Lenox blades and also a batch of timberwolf blades. Both cut great, smooth finish no matter speed of feed. The Lenox blades were a much better value than the timberwolf and WM. Hence I have become fond of the Lenox blades. So in this case I would be hesitant to use a CBN type sharpener to profile those blades to a WM profile. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: bandmiller2 on August 18, 2017, 08:31:56 PM
What type of grinder did the professional sharpener use.?? Frank C.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: irvi00 on August 18, 2017, 08:39:43 PM
Quote from: bandmiller2 on August 18, 2017, 08:31:56 PM
What type of grinder did the professional sharpener use.?? Frank C.

A very old school looking drag sharpener. All his stuff looks 100 years old. Dark as midnight in there. He keeps a lightbulb over each machine. He sharpens any type of saw, hammers circular saws, and sharpens chipper and planer blades. I was very happy with how he sharpened my bands, they were better than new.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: gmmills on August 18, 2017, 11:02:51 PM
 Magicman,
   
   You have stated that you have Zero experience CBN wheels then why do you feel the need to even comment on the subject of CBN wheels or sharpening in general?
Your opinion is solely based on what you have been told by a WM Rep. It is really a shame that you were not able to make it to Customsawyer's project. At least you could have attended the blade educational talk that , Richard and myself presented. Our presentation was based on real world full time sawing fact. Some of the content was in direct conflict with many manufacturers recommendations. You may have then realized that there are people, full time sawyers, out there with a great deal of practical knowledge that is applied to make a living every day and are not directly affiliated with WM.   
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Bruno of NH on August 19, 2017, 05:40:47 AM
Wow realy
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: grouch on August 19, 2017, 06:07:42 AM
Quote from: gmmills on August 18, 2017, 11:02:51 PM
Magicman,
   
   You have stated that you have Zero experience CBN wheels then why do you feel the need to even comment on the subject of CBN wheels or sharpening in general?
Your opinion is solely based on what you have been told by a WM Rep. It is really a shame that you were not able to make it to Customsawyer's project. At least you could have attended the blade educational talk that , Richard and myself presented. Our presentation was based on real world full time sawing fact. Some of the content was in direct conflict with many manufacturers recommendations. You may have then realized that there are people, full time sawyers, out there with a great deal of practical knowledge that is applied to make a living every day and are not directly affiliated with WM.

Wanna borrow my nickname for a while?

Response seems just a bit harsh.

Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: xlogger on August 19, 2017, 06:46:57 AM
I have to agree with gmmills. I have a TK and I'm happy with it. But some things they say to do I've found out I've change and it works better for me. I have to give Steve (ladylake) lots of credit on this, he been using TK longer than me. I'm sure WM has some room for changing also but since I have zero experience with that I can't really say. But we all have to remember they are all manufacturers selling their products and want to make you think that their way is the only way.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: bandmiller2 on August 19, 2017, 07:41:33 AM
Honestly now have any of you milled with both CBN and drag ground bands and found one superior to the other, if so by much.?? Frank C.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Jeff on August 19, 2017, 08:22:39 AM
gmmills, since I've been directed to your comments by several forum members annoyed with your attitude and comments toward another member, I'll comment as well. I agree with them. If everyone on here felt the need to call someone out for voicing an opinion, things would get ugly in a hurry around here. Just like I can see you seething right now because I'm calling you out. Sucks, don't it.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: xlogger on August 19, 2017, 08:31:29 AM
bandmiller, I've used the drag type for years and it was ok, but I got the wm250 and with some help from Richard setting it up I'm totally happy with it. Blades cut great.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Magicman on August 19, 2017, 09:02:03 AM
gmmills, Sir, at no time have I degraded or in any way lessened the value of the knowledge and expertise that you or Cutting Edge have or share with the members and guest here on the Forestry Forum.   In fact I fully "realized that there are people, full time sawyers, out there with a great deal of practical knowledge that is applied to make a living every day".  For you to state that I do not is very questionable on your part.

I have the full right to share the knowledge that I have gained from experience or from reliable sources that I feel will aid other members and guest.

Here is the statement that I made in Reply #27:
QuoteIt's my understanding that blades with an even slightly different profile are not kind to CBN wheels because the reshaping unnecessarily wears the wheels.  My Wood-Mizer ReSharp in GA will not accept anything other than WM blades.
I fail to see where my words were "all knowing" or stated in a less than factual or professional manner.   

The fact that you represent a sponsor (KASCO/WoodMax) here on the Forestry Forum, it is surprising that you would single out any member or other sponsor in the manner that you have chosen to do.



Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Ox on August 19, 2017, 11:17:59 AM
 ??? :P
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: drobertson on August 20, 2017, 09:07:34 AM
I have read, and re-read this thread several times.  What I can glean from many of the posts is that there are many, many folks happy with their cooks sharpener.  Coming from tooling back ground I can say with some standing,  Cooks has a few issues with consistency in regards to drilled and tapped holes, as well as angles and the like. Not to mention their cams have a little to be desired at times.  All this to say folks can learn to work around them, once they learn.  The lady that did my blades before I started sharping my own used a Cooks,, I was happy, at 4 bucks a blades who wouldn't be? but there were at times that same weird rough finish.  Once I switched to Kasco blades all my troubles went away..(except back issues). I will stand with GMills in regards to folks,(folks with a long standing and reputation) making comments that could possibly sway ones decision making because of a level of respect of that person, even when the individual has no hands on experience, only second hand information.  Many folks myself included find it very difficult at times to discuss a topic due to the (sponsership) issue, feeling a potential retaliation would ensue, when the very information that could be shared could help many folks.  Its not a Red, or Blue, Orange, or Black issue, its folks just sharing experiences.  Now bashing, or venting is clearly not what I am talking about, just good info about trials, followed up by the resulting fix..
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: JB Griffin on August 20, 2017, 09:19:56 AM
Well said David, I agree.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Ox on August 20, 2017, 09:52:23 AM
I also agree, drobertson.  That was well said - far better than I ever could have said.

Quote from: Magicman on August 19, 2017, 09:02:03 AM
The fact that you represent a sponsor (KASCO/WoodMax) here on the Forestry Forum, it is surprising that you would single out any member or other sponsor in the manner that you have chosen to do.

I looked back on gmmills posts - it doesn't seem he's ever said anything about being a representative of Kasco but simply seems like a satisfied customer of Kasco/member Cutting Edge.  As am I - Kasco blades from Cutting Edge are the best I've ever used.

Looking back through these posts, it seems that there might be a hidden axe that is being ground on.  ???
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Jeff on August 20, 2017, 10:01:06 AM
It really doesn't matter who you agree with. My post stands and that is it. Or I could say this, none of you have any experience running this forum, so you have no business commenting on how it's done.  By saying that, it's the same thing as telling someone they should not comment on a cam because they dont have hands on experience.
This has nothing to do with sponsors and everything to do with how you treat your fellow members.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Jeff on August 20, 2017, 10:14:28 AM
The axe grinding observation is an astute observation. Having the benefit of being in the catbird seat, there are lots of things that I know that others may not when I formulate a post.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Corley5 on August 20, 2017, 11:20:24 AM
I bought a Cooks a while back when I bought Homey, Fla. Deadheader's bandmill.  From the reviews I read, the price, and what I plan/planned to do with mill it fit nicely.  I also got it on sale from Cooks 8) 8) 8) 8)  Since then other things have come up.  The mill is in the barn.  The sharpener is in the shop never used.  Someday ;D ;D
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Percy on August 20, 2017, 11:49:08 AM
I been using CBN for quite a few years now, first with the upgrade your drag sharpener kit and now the BSM250. I've kinda forgotten alot of stuff I learned with  the drag sharpener. The CBN is a no brainer and can be learned quickly. Costs more. The oil mist problem, for me anyways, has been defeated by using #32 hydraulic oil. No adverse effects on blades or wheels and my sharpener area is clean compared to the 150.00 a pail stuff that makes a mess.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Ox on August 20, 2017, 12:08:16 PM
Percy - that's good to know.  That stuff can be had for cheaper than just about anything.  Around $40 or so around here for a 5 gallon pail.

Have you tried regular mineral oil?  It's what some professional sharpeners use.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: barbender on August 20, 2017, 04:15:58 PM
I will say, I was one of the folks that hit the "Report to Moderator" button. Why? I didn't like the tone of some of the responses to Magicman. Plain and simple. And I'm not going to get into a war of words with someone if I think they're being disrespectful to someone, I'll let one if the moderators take care of it.  There can be a difference of opinion on matters without having a condescending or disrespectful tone. I've been on this forum for quite a while, and since Magic has joined he has contributed a great deal of knowledge and real world portable sawing experience, all with a humble and gentlemanly spirit. That's what I like and that's what sets this forum apart from others.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Bruno of NH on August 20, 2017, 04:18:03 PM
Barbender x2
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: ladylake on August 20, 2017, 04:41:41 PM
 
Not getting in to this but if I was reshaping a band with a CBN wheel  I'd take light passes which shouldn't wear the wheel or get a wheel more suited for heavy grind reshaping. That said I have no experience with  CBN  grinding   and my old drag grinder sharpeners blades better than new but I do sharpen to a 4° hook from a 10° hook which most likely helps the most cutting wide hard wood.  Steve
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Ox on August 20, 2017, 10:36:15 PM
ladylake - good to hear from you again.  Why do you go to 4 from 10?  Is it because you have a bunch of 10s on hand and like the 4?  I'm pretty sure I remember you being quite fond of the Kasco 4s?  I am too.  I have a bunch of Cooks 10s I ground back to 7, but haven't touched them since getting my Kasco 4s from Richard at Cutting Edge.  I'll probably never touch the others again except for questionable logs.  I'm spoiled now!

I can't wait to convert my Cooks into a CBN.  It'll be a good thing for me and my couple customers as well.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: barbender on August 20, 2017, 11:40:13 PM
I'm hearing a lot of good things about the Kascos on here, I'm going to have to give them a try. I'd also considered giving a cbn wheel a go on my Cook's, I remember a while back someone was selling a dry grind cbn out of Ireland on here, I can't remember the name, but I also remember a few members tried them and got poor life out of them, if I remember right. I am satisfied with my Cook's, as I already stated, but I will say it is really hard to get a consistent grind (for me) without burning the tips. If I set it light enough that it doesn't burn teeth, it doesn't even touch some. I've tried cranking the blade clamp, varying the tension, doesn't seem to matter. I quit caring about a slight burn. But then I don't get many bf on a sharpening either.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: ladylake on August 21, 2017, 04:41:23 AM
Quote from: Ox on August 20, 2017, 10:36:15 PM
ladylake - good to hear from you again.  Why do you go to 4 from 10?  Is it because you have a bunch of 10s on hand and like the 4?  I'm pretty sure I remember you being quite fond of the Kasco 4s?  I am too.  I have a bunch of Cooks 10s I ground back to 7, but haven't touched them since getting my Kasco 4s from Richard at Cutting Edge.  I'll probably never touch the others again except for questionable logs.  I'm spoiled now!

I can't wait to convert my Cooks into a CBN.  It'll be a good thing for me and my couple customers as well.°°


I go to 4° blades as they cut straighter than 10° blades in tough wood.  I run Simonds blades which I can only find in 10°. I did try some Kasco blades which were ok but the Simonds cut straighter on my mill, the Kascos cut pretty good after a few sharpening's which made the gullet the same as the Simonds which comes with a shallower gullet.  Steve
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: bandmiller2 on August 21, 2017, 07:44:17 AM
Ox, what is entailed in changing a Cooks drag into a CBN.?? What would be nice is the ability to switch back and forth. Drag grind to CBN profile, then sharpen CBN. Frank C.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Rickcnc on August 21, 2017, 08:13:43 AM
Quote from: barbender on August 20, 2017, 11:40:13 PM
I am satisfied with my Cook's, as I already stated, but I will say it is really hard to get a consistent grind (for me) without burning the tips. If I set it light enough that it doesn't burn teeth, it doesn't even touch some. I've tried cranking the blade clamp, varying the tension, doesn't seem to matter. I quit caring about a slight burn. But then I don't get many bf on a sharpening either.

I was getting burned tips on my cooks and I found slowing the feed rate down helped and gave me a nice smooth grind.. although it had a negative impact on how many blades I could do a hour. That said I still have a lot to learn, only sharpened 50 - 60 blades.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Ox on August 21, 2017, 10:19:53 AM
bandmiller2 - it'll take a different cam (either new or modified cam on hand), CBN wheel for the profile of the blades you plan on sharpening, oil pump and oil delivery system, filter/magnet system in an oil containment/catch system.  It's a lot to do and modify but I think it'll be more than worth it in the end.  I'll get it done with close help from Richard at Cutting Edge.  I may have forgot something here but he'll know what all I'll need and can get all the stuff too.  He's already done it before and has a mind like an elephant and don't seem to forget much.  I'll be using the CBN wheels from him too.  I'm not sure where they're made but apparently they outlast other ones significantly. (edit it's Rix Saws CBN wheels).

If you planned ahead I think you could make it so you could switch between drag and CBN pretty quick and easy.  Something cut to fit over the oil tank to keep grinding dust out, take off CBN wheel and mount stone, switch cams and you're into drag sharpening again.  However, there'll be oil all over the machine and the grinding dust will be sticking to everything and when you go back to CBN it'll wash a bunch into the tank and probably plug things up quicker.  I've heard of a guy that uses CBN dry on a Cooks with apparently good life and results.  I'm not sure I want to try that on my dime...
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Ox on August 21, 2017, 12:49:53 PM
thanks, drobertson - i fixed that in my original post. :)
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: bandmiller2 on August 21, 2017, 07:52:28 PM
Thanks Ox, seems to me the Cook boys should consider a CBN option and a retrofit kit for their grinder. Its a reliable platform and will last just short of forever. Possibly a water based mist to cool the CBN. Frank C.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: gmmills on August 21, 2017, 11:21:48 PM
   I feel there is a need for clarification on posted misinformation. Not sure of the source of the information but I have never represented myself on this forum as being a Factory Kasco Rep. As Ox previously posted I am nothing more than a very satisfied customer.  A Kasco customer that was part of the development team to R&D their newest blade profile. This team also included 2 other forum members. This new profile was in development for over 24 months before it was released to the market. Through this time frame I was communicating directly with the company's design engineer, head of blade sales, and on occasion in person with the marketing director of the division. Great group of people. All about listening to the customer and wanting to manufacture a quality product. Quite impressive these days.

      The new blade profile was designated as the Maxx 7. We generically call it the 7/40. 7 deg hook angle 40 deg back angle. It was developed in response to customers inquiries regarding  a blade to compete with WM 7/39 turbo blade.  The blade has been in release for a little over a month now. To date it has been a success with the local sawyers in my area.

      For those of you that attended Customsawyers project this year, you were able to see this blade perform first hand.           
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: YellowHammer on August 22, 2017, 12:14:34 AM
Quote from: Rickcnc on August 21, 2017, 08:13:43 AM
Quote from: barbender on August 20, 2017, 11:40:13 PM
I am satisfied with my Cook's, as I already stated, but I will say it is really hard to get a consistent grind (for me) without burning the tips. If I set it light enough that it doesn't burn teeth, it doesn't even touch some. I've tried cranking the blade clamp, varying the tension, doesn't seem to matter. I quit caring about a slight burn. But then I don't get many bf on a sharpening either.

I was getting burned tips on my cooks and I found slowing the feed rate down helped and gave me a nice smooth grind.. although it had a negative impact on how many blades I could do a hour. That said I still have a lot to learn, only sharpened 50 - 60 blades.
I had the best results on speed setting 4 with the Cooks, and three passes average per band.  Seven minutes per pass, three passes and so 21 minutes per band, 3 bands per hour.  I've tried different wheels, different speeds, etc, including max speed, but I got my best grind on these settings.

The CBN usually takes me two passes, with a much higher feed rate, about 4 minutes per pass, 8 minutes per band, so 7 bands per hour.  More than twice the effective rate.

Both machines will grind a band sharper than new.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: ladylake on August 22, 2017, 05:47:59 AM
 
  Nice review Yellowhammer.  Steve

Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Chuck White on August 22, 2017, 06:34:56 AM
I've noticed that there are several speed control rheostats, pots, etc. for the Cat Claw for instance, on mine I can select anywhere from 0 to 100 (I got it in 2009).  I usually set it at 50 and with good results.

I've found that if I get burn marks, I'm grinding too heavy!  I let it go around and finish the band, then I adjust for a very light grind and it removes the blue marks made on the previous grind!  I get better results with two light grinds! 
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: xlogger on August 22, 2017, 06:38:04 AM
Robert, when you do 2 passes with your cbn wheel do you make any adjustments on height of the blade level or leave it at the same setting? As of now I'm only doing one pass and it seems to me as doing a good job. But there is always room for improvement.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: bandmiller2 on August 22, 2017, 07:26:45 AM
Its very rare for me to do more than one light pass with my Cats Claw. I do not use a band until its dead dull but change it when it has just lost its keen edge. I'am not sure "blue tips" is a bad thing as I believe bands are an air hardening steel. Cams seldom match a new band perfectly, first grind or two I usually just catch the face and back of the tooth, gullet comes later. I realize that when a bands teeth are hardened they use a much higher temp. than the grinder can supply but I have not noticed any problem with a little tooth blue tip. I sharpen several different brands of bands for myself and select customers and the adaptability of the Cat is a distinct advantage. Frank C.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: YellowHammer on August 22, 2017, 09:43:30 AM
Quote from: xlogger on August 22, 2017, 06:38:04 AM
Robert, when you do 2 passes with your cbn wheel do you make any adjustments on height of the blade level or leave it at the same setting? As of now I'm only doing one pass and it seems to me as doing a good job. But there is always room for improvement.
I can occasionally get away with one pass per band with the CBN, but I am very careful to make sure I grind all the way down to the corners, and view the band with a magnifying glass as it comes around for a finishing pass so it also serves as a quality assurance pass.  It's easy to do by just standing there as the teeth autofeed by, looking at the first half a dozen teeth as they feed by.  Here are a couple photos I took a few years ago with the Cooks, which illustrates how even though a band may appear sharp, under closer magnification, it needed another pass.  Same thing with the CBN, its easy to have the chisel leading edge look sharp, but still with just the slightest dulling of the corners.   

I make a slight adjustment to the sharpener to keep the CBN properly and fully contacting the profile for the second pass, depending on what I see with the magnifier.

This is a tooth that looked sharp to my unaided eye, but under magnification, was still dull in the tooth corners.  This was also a little blue from the dry grind, and you can also see the burrs.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/image~42.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1396324855)

This is a fully sharpened tooth that is ready to go, same band, next pass, noticeably different from the first picture, almost a hollow grind on the chisel face, and very sharp corners.  Still a little burr, but ready for setting.  This is with a the Cooks sharpener, and this tooth is about as sharp as a tooth can get, i.e. razor sharp.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/image~45.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1396324957)

Here is why getting the tooth corners sharp is important since I switched over from setting then sharpening.  I didn't like the geometry of the setting anvils on my dual tooth, and didn't like the fact that they contacted the tooth in a spot other than where the dial indicators measured, but lower down in the tooth which causes the deflection to be amplified at the tip, and gave me slightly inconsistent results.  I also didn't like the way the anvil would leave little indentations of a couple thousandths into the tooth metal, which also would give me some inconsistency.  So I reground the setting anvils to a full flat face angle that strikes the tooth at the inside tip and pushes outward.  That way I am minimizing deflection error on my the setter and only moving the part of the tooth that is getting actually measured with the dial indicator.  Push on one side of the tooth corner, measure the other.  However, in order make this work, just like in any close tolerance measuring, every tooth must be the same geometry, so the anvils must push on a fully developed and consistent tooth corner.  So if I was to set on a dull band with corners that have wear, I am indexing off a certain amount of randomness.  Certainly the setter could make these adjustments, but it seemed I could avoid this with a few tweaks.  Here's another picture of a partially sharpened tooth.  Notice it has some taper toward the tip, and if I was to index the setter off it, I would get a lessened, incorrect deflection because the geometry isn't fully developed and consistent.  It may not be much of an error, but is directly equal to the amount of the missing tooth tip corner, maybe a few thousandths, so it needs another pass. 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/image~43.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1396324887)

Once I started making extra sure I had a fully ground tooth, then everything fell into place, the setter worked very well, the setting error went down significantly, I didn't have to make as many band to band adjustments to the setter and the boards come out with a noticeably flat surface with minimal teeth marks.  I'm not doing all this because I'm a sharpening expert, to the contrary, I dislike sharpening and the time spent doing so.  Time is money, but quality rules.  The only way I can justify it is if I can get a very good result than with a minimum of time.  All in all, this technique works best for me.



   
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Ox on August 22, 2017, 09:56:28 AM
Very good writeup, YellowHammer.

What magnification tool do you use and would you buy it again if you had to?
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: YellowHammer on August 22, 2017, 10:02:53 AM
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/image~67.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1406941674)
Available online or any drugstore for about twenty bucks, also has a built in light. 
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: ladylake on August 22, 2017, 11:50:59 AM

A while back I tries some really hard stones that blued the tooth quite a bit and those bands didn't stay sharp very long, switched back to a softer wheel with no bluing or just a bit on the top of the tooth , none on the face and they now last like new blades.  I'm also a 1 pass sharpener like Frank and also miss the bottom of the gullet on the first sharpening.  Steve
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Alyeska Pete on August 22, 2017, 12:09:09 PM
Re: Reply #36..
gmmills:
I have to disagree with your statement about Cook's dual tooth setter not clamping the blade prior to setting. One of the main features of this setter is the fact that it does first clamp the blade, then sets the tooth. The clamping force is adjustable to make the setter compatible with virtually any thickness band.
Arguably, the Cook's dual tooth setter does have a myriad of adjustments to make it function properly. But it is the fact that it has all these adjustments, that make it the most accurate, fastest, and versatile dual tooth setter on the market today. 
I think you sent back a setter that just had not been adjusted properly for your particular band.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Kbeitz on August 22, 2017, 12:20:49 PM
Sharping a blade for wood is sure different than sharping a tool for cutting metal.
After I sharpen a metal cutting bit I need to dull it by honing it with a diamond hone .
If you don't do this the sharp tip will just break off first cut. I wonder if this happens
with hard wood ?
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Cutting Edge on August 22, 2017, 02:03:42 PM
Kbeitz,

You bring up a good point... two actually.

1.  What you describe in doing for metal cutting is actually done for pallet dismantler blades.  This is sometimes done during manufacturing, sometimes done/repeated by the customer.  Now, these blades do not fit well in the application of lumber production, but the principle applies non the less.

2.  "Does this happen in hardwood ?"

- Yes.  Most manufacturers offer some sort of blades intended for Resaws.  These blades are designed to be run continuously, possibly multiple shifts depending on species.  Many times these blades are discarded once removed and new installed for manpower/downtime reasons. 

These blades will still "feel sharp" and still could continue to cut.  Take that same blade and magnify the tip of the tooth (min. 120x + or on an Optical Comparitor) and the edge will actually be jagged w/ what I can best described as "potholes".  YellowHammer's pic of missing corners are almost a given.  Essentially the edge has broken/fractured away from the tip.  This is becomes more apparent in the harder species, logs that are dirty and most especially in the winter time when you now have frozen hardwoods.

Many times a cost conscious sawmill owner will purchase blades such as these based on soley price.  But these cheaper blades are not really meant for such an application.  Varying width cuts, dirt/mud, etc. are part of sawmilling.  When in actuality, those blades are best suited for narrow, clean cants. 

Using these cheaper "resaw" blades can actually become more expensive in the long run due to shorter run times and the fact that as the blade is resharpened, it's ability to maintain that fresh edge diminishes due to how the teeth are tempered.  There are also owners whom prefer to run once or twice and then discard.  Every situation is different.

Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: irvi00 on August 22, 2017, 07:03:51 PM
Yellowhammer, that was a great post. I learned a ton from that.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Ga Mtn Man on August 27, 2017, 10:24:09 AM
Yes, that was a very informative post Yellowhammer.  I am sometimes guilty of leaving rounded corners and always regret it.  Yeah they will cut poplar but put em up against some knotty-pine and.... :'( 

On a related topic previously discussed in this thread-  Does anyone know if the CBN wheels or cams are available yet for the new Kasco Maxx 7 blades?  I'm assuming the profile differs enough from the standard Kasco 7° to require a different wheel. 
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: 4x4American on August 27, 2017, 12:16:27 PM
Paul, I took some side x side comparisons of the kasco 7/35 and the new kasco 7/40.  My cook's will sharpen the 7/35's perfectly but I cant seem to get it to work perfectly on the 7/40's.  I hope someone will make a cam for these new deep gullet blades soon.  The turbo 7's also a struggle.  I can get it halfway decent but no where near as good as I can get it to sharpen wm 7/34's, k7/35's and the likes.
[font=.SF UI Text][/font][font=.SF UI Text][/font](https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34510/IMG_3478.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1503850261)[font=.SF UI Text][/font][font=.SF UI Text][/font](https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34510/IMG_3479~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1503850263)[font=.SF UI Text][/font][font=.SF UI Text][/font][font=.SF UI Text][/font](https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34510/IMG_3480.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1503850265)[font=.SF UI Text][/font]
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: 4x4American on August 27, 2017, 01:04:28 PM
Quote from: Alyeska Pete on August 22, 2017, 12:09:09 PM
Re: Reply #36..
gmmills:
I have to disagree with your statement about Cook's dual tooth setter not clamping the blade prior to setting. One of the main features of this setter is the fact that it does first clamp the blade, then sets the tooth. The clamping force is adjustable to make the setter compatible with virtually any thickness band.
Arguably, the Cook's dual tooth setter does have a myriad of adjustments to make it function properly. But it is the fact that it has all these adjustments, that make it the most accurate, fastest, and versatile dual tooth setter on the market today. 
I think you sent back a setter that just had not been adjusted properly for your particular band.




Hey Pete howzit goin?  Taint heard from ya in a spell.  I made a vidjayo response to show what gmmills is talking aboot eh




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZbYsRPiwSQ
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: ladylake on August 27, 2017, 03:08:43 PM
 
I would try adjusting the clamping for your blade thickness then report back.   Maybe gmmills can explain how to do that. Steve
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: 4x4American on August 27, 2017, 03:48:35 PM
It's adjusted for .055" 7/8" spacing blades but the one I grabbed in the vidjayo was a .050" 1" spacing cause thats what I grabbed first out of the barrel of broken blades..it don't matter how well its adjusted the anvils press before it clamps the blade it's how its designed.  The single tooth clamps then bends
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: ladylake on August 27, 2017, 04:23:38 PM
 
I'd think so long as it clamps the blade tight done by the right adjustment it will set the tooth the same no matter if the anvil hit a bit before the blade clamps solid. If you have it adjusted so the blade clamps solid it wont be flexing when its bending the teeth over.  This machine as any other machine needs to be adjusted right .  Steve
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: 4x4American on August 27, 2017, 04:29:29 PM
I have played with that adjustment quite a bit, I adjusted it the way Cook's says, which is not too tight but not too loose.  They say it shouldn't take much effort to do it.  So there's a happy medium and I've tried both sides of the equation.. if you make it clamp it real good then setting a blade or twenty can wear on your arm, if you have it too loose then it's too loose.  Even there on that .050" blade it was a bit stiff the handle was you can see the thing jump in the first part of the vidjayo
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: ladylake on August 27, 2017, 04:33:41 PM
 Like I said so long as it clamps the blade tight it will set the teeth even.  Steve
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: 4x4American on August 27, 2017, 04:42:26 PM
That dont change the fact that it pushes the teeth (which twists the blade body) before it clamps the blade body
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: ladylake on August 27, 2017, 04:47:58 PM
 
That doesn't matter so long as it clamps the blade good, the final bend will come after it clamps the blade.  Steve
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: 4x4American on August 27, 2017, 05:27:14 PM
O'Doyle Rules
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: customsawyer on September 01, 2017, 07:15:51 AM
Okay folks here is some pictures of my blade inventory.



 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11861/IMG_2364.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1503957441)



 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11861/IMG_2365.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1503957441)



 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11861/IMG_2367.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1503957444)

I'm sharing these pictures to say that every one of these blades have had the profile changed and they will all get there profile changed again. Most are done with a WM CBN sharpener and wheels from Cutting Edge. The rest are done with a Cooks sharpener and the ruby red wheels from Suffolks. I try to use the best product available to me. This is what is working for me and in no way am I saying it will work for anyone else. I buy WM 7/39 blades and change them to a 4/39. I also buy Kasco 7/40 blades and change them to 4/40 blades. I do this due to the wide variety of species that I cut. When you go from Hickory to Sweetgum to knotty pine you have to have the ability to cut them all flat and true. Especially if you are going to be the one to take them and run them through the planer. The blades will then get there profiles changed to a 4/30 or a 4/32 profile when I use them for the nail logs that I cut at the big mill. I do this as the taller tooth height doesn't take the nail strikes as well as the shorter teeth. One of the things I am glad I don't have to contend with is frozen or half frozen logs like y'all do up North.  ;D
 
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: terrifictimbersllc on September 01, 2017, 08:12:58 AM
Always good to have something to do :D
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Kbeitz on September 01, 2017, 08:23:21 AM
That's  a lot of spring steel.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: YellowHammer on September 01, 2017, 08:56:16 AM
That's a lot of sawing.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Ox on September 01, 2017, 09:22:24 AM
That's a lot of setting and sharpening.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Raider Bill on September 01, 2017, 09:55:28 AM
That's a man that knows what he's talking about.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Peter Drouin on September 01, 2017, 12:11:15 PM
Must have a man come in to help set and sharpened with all the blades?


Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: drobertson on September 01, 2017, 12:50:00 PM
Nice explanation Jake,, understanding the use and practice from realtime sawyers that the have experience from every aspect of the thin kerf bandsaw industry is a very nice advantage for those who have the capacity to grasp the reasons for the changes of blades, and which machine works for the application that's required,  I miss my mill,
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: customsawyer on September 02, 2017, 05:53:56 AM
Peter earlier yesterday I saw where you posted a question as to why I didn't just buy the 4° blades that both of the companies offer. The main reason is the depth of the gullet and the amount of sawdust it will carry. The progress that has been made in the blade industry in the last few years is nothing short of impressive.
I've tried the hiring someone to come in and sharpen blades a few different times and it never works out. They will do good for awhile but pretty soon they get the idea that they know a better way to sharpen the blades, even though they have never run a sawmill before.  For some reason their better ideas always have a short cut or a step in the process is missing.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: 123maxbars on September 02, 2017, 11:27:57 AM
nice set up!
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Peter Drouin on September 02, 2017, 12:55:30 PM
I changed my ?? When I realize with a CBN the 4° wheel would not leave the 30°/40° back side alone. The CBN would make a reg 4° face and what ever the back would be for a 4°
With the stone sharpener you can move the face from a 7° to a 4° and keep a 30/40 back side and a deep gullet, I think. :D




Can be hard to get good help sometimes,
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: drobertson on September 02, 2017, 04:43:54 PM
Quote from: Peter Drouin on September 02, 2017, 12:55:30 PM
I changed my ?? When I realize with a CBN the 4° wheel would not leave the 30°/40° back side alone. The CBN would make a reg 4° face and what ever the back would be for a 4°
With the stone sharpener you can move the face from a 7° to a 4° and keep a 30/40 back side and a deep gullet, I think. :D

try Cutting Edge,, pretty sure this would solve many of issues that might arise,,




Can be hard to get good help sometimes,
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: gmmills on September 03, 2017, 09:09:13 PM
    Thanks 4x4 for taking the time to make the video. Easy to understand when you can actually visualize the difference. Sure saved an excruciating amount of typing for the explanation.

    Ga Mtn Man, There is a CBN wheel for the new Kasco  Maxx7, 7/40, profile. The wheel is available from Kasco. It is a branded Kasco wheel which is manufactured for them by Rixsaws.  For those of you that may be  questioning  the quality, durability, of this wheel, just go to www.rixsaws.com for more info. I have been a customer of Rixsaws, using these wheels, for several years now. I can honestly state that these wheels are far superior in overall longevity than any domestically manufactured wheel.  There are also CBN wheels available for all the 7/8" tooth spacing Kasco blades. Additionally, there is a wheel to re-profile the new 7/40 profile to a 4/40 profile. This wheel just changes the hook angle to 4 deg while maintaining the deep gullet profile and the 40 deg back angle. This 4/40 profile works very well in seasoned hardwoods, even dry Hickory.

Quote from: Peter Drouin on September 02, 2017, 12:55:30 PM
I changed my ?? When I realize with a CBN the 4° wheel would not leave the 30°/40° back side alone. The CBN would make a reg 4° face and what ever the back would be for a 4°



    Peter, There is actually CBN wheel available to re-profile the 7/39 turbo profile to a 4/39. Making a 4 deg hook angle while preserving the 39 deg back angle. Quite advantageous when cutting frozen or extremely dense hardwoods.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: xlogger on September 04, 2017, 05:58:03 AM
I've got 4 or 5 new Kasco 4° blades that I want to use on cutting some white oak later this week I hope. After I use them if they work well I'm thinking about ordering a box from Richard. I don't want to have a cbn wheel just for them if you think I should go with the 7° and change it back to a 4°. What way do you or Richard suggest on getting to all 4° if I decide on going that way?
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: customsawyer on September 04, 2017, 06:00:37 AM
In another post someone had asked what blade to use cutting hickory. Someone mentioned using a 10° blade. I have never had any luck cutting hickory with a 10° blade. With the different blades that we have available to us now a 10° blade would be the one of the last I would grab to cut hickory with.
When I change the 7° blades to 4° I do lose a little cutting speed but I'm getting older and don't notice it as much. ;) I will sacrifice the speed for the accuracy that I get from the 4°. 
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: ladylake on September 04, 2017, 06:04:24 AM
 

( I will sacrifice the speed for the accuracy that I get from the 4°.)



  Same here   . Really not much if any time lost as a 4° will be cutting after you have to take a 10° off. Steve
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: customsawyer on September 04, 2017, 06:07:51 AM
xlogger I can't remember what hp you have on your mill but if it is one of the higher hp I would try the 7/40. Use it as a 7/40 then send it to Richard or myself and one of us will change it to a 4° and you can try it.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: xlogger on September 04, 2017, 06:52:38 AM
34hp kohler, which I think is really more like 31hp I'm hearing. If I like the way it works for me I was wondering if I could use the same cbn on my wm250 that you guys are talking about or would I have to get another wheel for the 4° I have now or just not use them anymore.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: 4x4American on September 04, 2017, 06:56:01 AM
I use 7/40's and 7/39's cutting white oak, hickory, beech, hard maple, etc and they will cut it good enough for the girls I go with but when they are a 4 degree blade they will cut it much more betterly.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Bruno of NH on September 04, 2017, 01:21:50 PM
I just switched to Kasco 4's my mill cuts the best it ever has with them.
I also went from a 1 1/2 wide band to 1 1/4 the quality of cut is so much better.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Chuck White on September 05, 2017, 07:25:25 AM
I couldn't imaging having that many blades, CustomSawyer, Heck I couldn't imagine seeing  :o that many blades! 
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Peter Drouin on September 05, 2017, 08:53:46 PM
I bet a lot are for the iron wood, Maybe custom sawer can take us on a walk with a new blade and see the run, or steps it goes through to be an iron wood blade?
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: customsawyer on September 06, 2017, 07:23:10 PM
Chuck the thing that most are not understanding is that this is the blades that are in current rotation. Y'all haven't seen the blades that have been hauled off to the scrap yard or the pile that is setting out back waiting for scrap prices to come back up.
Peter for a walk through with my new blades here it goes. If they are WM 7/39 blades the first thing I do is check them for flatness. Sadly most need to be rolled. Once they are flat then they get to sawing. I will use them once and then they go to the WM sharpener with a Rixsaw 4/39 wheel on it and get resharpened and get used again. Now keep in mind each time a blade is used it is cutting around 2000bf or more, depending on what I'm sawing. After they are used the second time they get stacked up and used in my "nail logs". Then they go around the Cooks sharpener and get sharpened to 4/30 and keep getting stuck in nail logs until they break or get too narrow.
When I order Kasco 7/40 blades the first thing I do is check them for flatness. This step might start to get skipped as their blades are starting to get better in consistency for flatness. I will then saw with them. Then I put them on the WM sharpener with a Rixsaw 4/40 wheel and will usually sharpen them twice and then stick them in the nail logs. After that they are sharpened to a 4/30 or 4/32 profile with either sharpener. They will then get sharpened until they break or get too narrow.
One thing that some are not keeping in mind is that I make my entire living with my sawmills. I admire those that are retired and just use theirs to supplement their income. I'm not there yet so I have to run the devil out of mine. I cut between 2.25 and 2.5 million bf every year so it takes a fair number of blades to cut that kind of volume. 
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: bandmiller2 on September 06, 2017, 08:46:25 PM
Customsawyer, please tell us more about the flatness and the rolling, is it really important.?? Frank C.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Peter Drouin on September 06, 2017, 09:30:39 PM
Most impressive customsawyer.
I also make a full time living with my mill.
Find the logs, saw the logs, set up the trucking, talk to loggers, landowners ,sell the lumber, take care of the waste, maintain everything.
Only cut a truckload or five of customer logs for a fee.
Are you still cutting crane mats, 40' 12x12 for the big mill?
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: 4x4American on September 06, 2017, 10:15:19 PM
Quote from: bandmiller2 on September 06, 2017, 08:46:25 PM
Customsawyer, please tell us more about the flatness and the rolling, is it really important.?? Frank C.


Only if you want to cut flat lumber lol
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: caveman on September 07, 2017, 05:30:55 AM
Dug, we prefers to cut flattery lumber but it sometimes is a challenge, even with 4° Kascos.

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22883/image~403.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503787160) 

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22883/image~409.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504633480)
Add a week of ridiculously high humidity (summertime in central Florida) and pine lumber turns green, even with a 36" fan blowing continuously through the stack since an hour after it was sticker stacked and sawn.

Hi ho, hi ho, off to work I go.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Deese on September 07, 2017, 07:28:28 AM
Caveman, it's 53° here in AL this morning. Quite strange...but I'm loving it!
By the way, I taught Customsawyer everything I know about blade flatness.  :D He's got it going on.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: drobertson on September 07, 2017, 12:03:42 PM
Many of you folks saw all kinds of timber I've never seen,,from the northern stuff, to western,,but I can testify that the SOG of SYP will suck a blade quick as any,,
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: bandmiller2 on September 07, 2017, 01:26:03 PM
I have been doing some reading about band rolling. From what I read its not what you would expect its not a concave/convex deal where you bend the width of the band to flatten it. It actually expands the steel like a stretch roller used to tension circular saws. the bottom roller is flat and the top curved to spread the metal. Probably to build one the curved roller could be a replacement bearing for a pillow block bearing their OD is curved and a regular flat ball bearing for the bottom. HF sells a geared roller with interchangeable rollers may check that out, could probably be repurposed to flatten bands. Frank C.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Kbeitz on September 07, 2017, 06:26:56 PM
English Wheel.... Finger pincher...
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: drobertson on September 07, 2017, 06:59:24 PM
flattening is flattening,, yes it may stretch,, albeit minor, very minor amounts,,its not tensioning as mentioned like circular blades, its just taking the curve out of the band that's caused by a manufacturing process.  Stretching the steel would in fact result in a change in thickness, which is not the case at all from this process.  It simply is taking out the crown, which comes from the original process as well as running on band wheels with a crown.  These blades we run, run under tension, thus imparting forces on the body of the band which impart a forming of the body,, which can and usually affects the sawing efficiency.  Once one runs with a flattened band, they may find that all the minor issues with production and quality kinda just goes away,, neat stuff,, ain't it,?
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: 4x4American on September 07, 2017, 10:34:41 PM
Cook's calls it, iirc, anti-clastic curvature the way the blade bends when going around the band wheel
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Banjo picker on September 07, 2017, 10:50:13 PM
Here is a roller. Made by Cooks. There are a few other pictures in my gallery of it. Banjo

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18028/101_1856a.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1301540653)
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: bandmiller2 on September 08, 2017, 08:20:39 AM
Picker, is that bottom roller flat or concaved.?? Frank C.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Banjo picker on September 08, 2017, 12:07:12 PM
Concave.  I think you can see that from some of the other pictures in the gallery.  I will see if i can get a close up of it when i get home.  Banjo
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: bandmiller2 on September 08, 2017, 08:20:49 PM
Thanks Picker, I stand corrected if the bottom roller is concave its strictly a bending operation. I read on a different forum the bottom roller was flat. Frank C.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Deese on September 08, 2017, 08:51:16 PM
I reckon I want one of them thar rollin' contraptions.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Banjo picker on September 08, 2017, 09:59:55 PM
I guess I got to eat crow.  I answered from memory this morning, and that was defective.  The bottom roller is flat as you said bandmiller2.  Here is a picture I just took of it.

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18028/1504921956766-859187948.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504922336)  Sorry for giving you the wrong answer earlier.  Banjo
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: customsawyer on September 09, 2017, 05:32:21 AM
Quote from: Peter Drouin on September 06, 2017, 09:30:39 PM
Most impressive customsawyer.
I also make a full time living with my mill.
Find the logs, saw the logs, set up the trucking, talk to loggers, landowners ,sell the lumber, take care of the waste, maintain everything.
Only cut a truckload or five of customer logs for a fee.
Are you still cutting crane mats, 40' 12x12 for the big mill?

Yes I'm still cutting the long timbers at the big mill. When they can get the logs in.
You said a mouthful when you mentioned what all you are doing at your place. At the big mill I cut for that is one of the reasons I'm able to saw like I am. I don't have to do all of those other things you mentioned. All I have to do is saw and my maintenance. That makes a huge difference in production numbers.  Sawing at my house I have to do all that you listed and some more as I have to take care of the kiln and run the planer also. I actually have been filling a larger order for flooring and paneling so have barely even run the sawmill at the house. Still sawing  the nail logs at the big mill. I get emails and phone calls on a regular basis of someone that has found my website and want to know how they can get set up like me. I never know how they expect me to answer. All I know is that it takes a lot of work to get it set up and a heck of a lot of work to keep it rolling. One of the things that most don't realize that it takes is the contacts to get the logs in when you need them. I've always said that the sawing is the easy part of this business.

Bandmiller2, the rolling of the blades makes life easier. You can saw with out rolling your blades but you can saw better lumber faster with flat blades. If your blades aren't flat then they are going to be rocking on your rollers. When you go to the trouble to buy quality blade guide rollers and then put a blade on it that isn't flat you are going to get a rocking motion of your blade. When your blade is flat you are making contact on the entire surface of your roller. It makes a huge difference in the stability of your blade. Some blade manufactures don't offer any way to roll your blades flat so they have a tendency to say that it isn't necessary. Like I said before I will use what ever the best product is out there to help me produce the best lumber I can. Many times I will have to roll some blades several times to get them flat.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: kelLOGg on September 09, 2017, 05:49:53 AM
Quote from: bandmiller2 on September 07, 2017, 01:26:03 PM
I have been doing some reading about band rolling. From what I read its not what you would expect its not a concave/convex deal where you bend the width of the band to flatten it. It actually expands the steel like a stretch roller used to tension circular saws. the bottom roller is flat and the top curved to spread the metal. Probably to build one the curved roller could be a replacement bearing for a pillow block bearing their OD is curved and a regular flat ball bearing for the bottom. HF sells a geared roller with interchangeable rollers may check that out, could probably be repurposed to flatten bands. Frank C.

I'm following this with interest. If you make your own roller, please post your results.
Bob

Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Peter Drouin on September 09, 2017, 06:13:58 AM
It is a lot of work. customsawyer. But, you're right on getting logs in at the mill. Sometimes just money won't get you logs.
Trust and friendship will. And pay what the big mills pay too.  :D :D :D
What you have going at the big mill looks to be a good deal.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: terrifictimbersllc on September 09, 2017, 06:35:26 AM
I would like to know where I could actually buy one of these rollers.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Bruno of NH on September 09, 2017, 06:57:36 AM
I think Cooks sells the roller
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Bruno of NH on September 09, 2017, 07:04:40 AM
Peter and Custom
I'm just getting started in this business (2014)
I want to saw today because its the fun part but i will be moving,bundling and dealing with customers all day :) :)
The selling part is nice :)
That not counting clean up around the yard.
My point is its alot more work than most folks think but good hard work make you feel good at the end of the day :D
Bruno
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: kelLOGg on September 09, 2017, 11:27:12 AM
Quote from: Bruno of NH on September 09, 2017, 06:57:36 AM
I think Cooks sells the roller

Cooks does sell the roller. They are the biggest advocate of rolling. I just can't justify the expense or I would have one. I can't find it on their web site so you may have to call them.
bob
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Kbeitz on September 09, 2017, 11:59:01 AM
Quote from: kelLOGg on September 09, 2017, 11:27:12 AM
Quote from: Bruno of NH on September 09, 2017, 06:57:36 AM
I think Cooks sells the roller

Cooks does sell the roller. They are the biggest advocate of rolling. I just can't justify the expense or I would have one. I can't find it on their web site so you may have to call them.
bob

It would be so easy to build one...
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Peter Drouin on September 09, 2017, 12:56:06 PM
Just use 1¼ blades no rolling.
1½ just give me grief,  :D :D
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Chuck White on September 09, 2017, 07:32:00 PM
To my knowledge, I've never had a blade that needed to be rolled!    :P

Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Magicman on September 09, 2017, 07:45:43 PM
I believe that Cooks uses all steel bandwheels instead of belted bandwheels.   
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: bandmiller2 on September 09, 2017, 07:57:38 PM
Banjo, crow ain't bad if its fixed proper, I should know. In this light the top roller must stretch the metal slightly to take out the cupping, we're dealing in thousands of an inch, not much. Picked up a pair of gears at the old engine show in Dublin New Hampshire today, hope to build a roller when I'am not so busy. Thanks Frank C.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Kbeitz on September 09, 2017, 08:02:21 PM
At $135.00 this should do the job...

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Benchtop-English-Wheel/T25101?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2aW2-aeZ1gIVDx9oCh2V4AD1EAQYAyABEgK4iPD_BwE&utm_campaign=zPage&utm_source=grizzly.com
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Magicman on September 09, 2017, 08:25:17 PM
Kb, I am missing something.  What are you gonna crank to roll the blade through and how are you gonna keep the blade properly aligned??
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: gmmills on September 09, 2017, 10:40:11 PM
Quote from: Peter Drouin on September 09, 2017, 12:56:06 PM
Just use 1¼ blades no rolling.

     That does not always hold true. Although, when new, 1 1/4" blade stock is inherently free of curvature, flatter, than 1 1/2" stock it is still subjected to the exact same physical forces while running around the band wheels. These forces cause distortion of the blade body. With each additional run cycle, after sharpening and setting, the blade becomes more distorted. This distortion causes the blade to become humped up in the middle on the inside cross sectional surface of the blade body. This in turn causes the blade to not be stabilized by the guide roller surface. This holds true no matter the width of blade that you are running.

Many of you seem to think you only have to roll blades if running steel wheels. Totally false conception based purely on conjecture.  The type of band wheels, crowned steel wheels or belted wheels, has absolutely no bearing on whether a blade needs rolled or not. The same forces are being applied to the blade body regardless of which type of wheel is used. Customsawyer has 2 LT70's that run belted wheels and still has to roll blades. He has been doing it for years. I have owned a LT70 With belted wheels and my current LT70 has crowned steel wheels. I've had to roll blades for both wheels types. I have been rolling blades a little while longer than Customsawyer.  This is a fact based on many years, hours, of maintaining my own blades and dealing with their performance in real world sawing conditions. 
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: woodyone.john on September 09, 2017, 11:16:13 PM
So I would really like to see a pic or 2 of the roller devices some of you are using to flatten your blades and for double the points could someone show or link to a video clip performing the operation. cheers john
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Kbeitz on September 10, 2017, 02:25:47 AM
Quote from: Magicman on September 09, 2017, 08:25:17 PM
Kb, I am missing something.  What are you gonna crank to roll the blade through and how are you gonna keep the blade properly aligned??

I wish that I took pictures. I had one of these that I used at work that we used to make a crowned
band for the bottom of some grange doors. All we did was make a 1/2" cold role crank to replace
the lower bolt in the wheel and we made a U shaped chunk of steel to guide the strip of steel
as we cranked the handle. We was putting a crown on the strip but it would remove one just as easy.
It only took less than an hour to make the mods to this machine.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: kelLOGg on September 10, 2017, 05:39:36 AM
Quote from: woodyone.john on September 09, 2017, 11:16:13 PM
So I would really like to see a pic or 2 of the roller devices some of you are using to flatten your blades and for double the points could someone show or link to a video clip performing the operation. cheers john

I saw a Cook video on their roller in operation but now can't find it on their site.  ???
Bob
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Peter Drouin on September 10, 2017, 05:45:24 AM
Quote from: gmmills on September 09, 2017, 10:40:11 PM
Quote from: Peter Drouin on September 09, 2017, 12:56:06 PM
Just use 1¼ blades no rolling.

     That does not always hold true. Although, when new, 1 1/4" blade stock is inherently free of curvature, flatter, than 1 1/2" stock it is still subjected to the exact same physical forces while running around the band wheels. These forces cause distortion of the blade body. With each additional run cycle, after sharpening and setting, the blade becomes more distorted. This distortion causes the blade to become humped up in the middle on the inside cross sectional surface of the blade body. This in turn causes the blade to not be stabilized by the guide roller surface. This holds true no matter the width of blade that you are running.   


How long have you been sawing?
By the time your 1¼ blade has a u in it all the hardness of the tooth is gone from sharpening. Then maybe you have a u in it. Have you tried to rehard the tooth tip?
That would be a good time to see if have a u in it and roll.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: xlogger on September 10, 2017, 05:53:52 AM
Maybe you could just twist the blade inside out and run it for a little time. Might be best not to try to cut any wood while doing this :D
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Bruno of NH on September 10, 2017, 06:28:53 AM
Got my popcorn out
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Bruno of NH on September 10, 2017, 06:57:31 AM
Gmmills
We all saw wood in real world conditions.
In NH I saw real logs and I know Peter does because I seen him do it .
Bruno
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Chuck White on September 10, 2017, 07:00:24 AM
This is just a GUESS!

I think that the reason bands will develop that "U" shape is due to running on steel wheels!

I run 1¼" Wood-Mizer Double-Hards on my mill, and have never had an issue!

Just sayin'!
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: ladylake on September 10, 2017, 07:32:14 AM

   Seems like most of us running 1 1/4 blades including me have no trouble as my sharpened blades cut as good as new until they get too thin or break.  Steve
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: customsawyer on September 10, 2017, 08:48:48 AM
I thought my mill cut fine too, until I started rolling my blades. I can remember when some thought all you needed was a 10° blade. I think back on some of the logs I struggled with when all I had was 10° blades and I just cringe. The time I wasted checking adjustment of my mill when there wasn't anything wrong with it. Sure would like to have those hours of lost production back. The same holds true with the rolling of the blades. I hate taking the time to check new blades before I use them but I do to minimize my troubles at the mill. If y'all are happy with what you have then by all means run it. To those that say you haven't ever had a blade that needed rolled. How many have ever checked one for flatness and then corrected it? Try running some that are done right. I will venture a bet you have had some blades that needed rolled you just didn't know that was what was wrong with it. 
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: ladylake on September 10, 2017, 09:26:06 AM
 
My mill  cuts just fine with blades that aren't rolled, using all the power my 30HP has and they cut straight until dull.  I'm running 1 1/4 blades, never tried 1 1/2 and really no need for 1 1/2 as my 1 1/4 use all the power I have.  The biggest help was switching from 10° to 4° for tough wood.   Steve
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: drobertson on September 10, 2017, 09:59:00 AM
I agree with Custom and Gmills, they are just explaining what they do, no one is criticizing anyone or the techniques being used, at least the way I read it, just pretty good information on how to improve,, heck I figured everyone would at least want to try to improve,,folks around here can get to town by the gravel roads just fine, but can get there quicker and smoother on the black top,
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: gmmills on September 10, 2017, 09:59:45 AM
    The physical forces that are applied to the blade are the same no matter the width of the blade or the type of band wheel used.  Have any of you realized that crowned steel wheels were standard OEM equipment on all of WM industrial line of mills for years. The first LT 300 I witnessed sawing back in 2001 had crowned steel wheels.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: ladylake on September 10, 2017, 10:30:30 AM
Quote from: drobertson on September 10, 2017, 09:59:00 AM
I agree with Custom and Gmills, they are just explaining what they do, no one is criticizing anyone or the techniques being used, at least the way I read it, just pretty good information on how to improve,, heck I figured everyone would at least want to try to improve,,folks around here can get to town by the gravel roads just fine, but can get there quicker and smoother on the black top,


What would rolling improve on my mill with 1 1/4 blades, I use all the power I have and cut straight until dull. If I had a 50hp diesel running 1 1/2 bands sounds like Id be rolling my blades too.  Steve
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Ox on September 10, 2017, 10:44:22 AM
Why do some folks need rolling and others not need it?  Does a mostly aligned mill show problems with a curved blade body more readily than a perfectly aligned mill? 

It seems that 1 1/2" blades will get a curvature sooner and easier than 1 1/4" blades?

Does a thicker blade get a curvature sooner than a thinner blade?  It seems that a thicker blade will need more "hammering force" to get around the wheels thus causing a curvature in the blade body sooner?

For the record I've never checked for blade flatness.  The blades I set and sharpen for myself cut straight until they're dull and start wandering around a bit in knots.  The other blades I set and sharpen are for two fellers down the road and they don't have many blades coming through and run Turner mills which run on trailer tires and don't get enough tension to deform and also don't have a thin bandwheel profile to hammer the center of the blade body.  I'll have to pay attention to this in the future with some of my older, many times sharpened blades.  I hope I remember to one of these days.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: customsawyer on September 10, 2017, 01:09:07 PM
FYI I run belted wheels.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: barbender on September 10, 2017, 02:38:11 PM
I don't saw enough to get around to messing with band rolling. Here's what I do know- running new, or resharpened , 10° and 7° blades of various manufacturers (mostly WM) I have never been able to saw with enough speed to work my 40hp diesel without getting waves. It frustrates me to no end. To be honest, I think it would saw as fast with a 20 hp engine. So, if I was sawing more, I would be checking into band rolling.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: ladylake on September 10, 2017, 03:07:12 PM


I think a 40 hp diesel needs a 1 1/2 " blade, a 1 1/4 can only handle a 30 hp diesel or 35 hp gas.  Steve
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Chuck White on September 10, 2017, 06:19:11 PM
All I'm saying is I have not seen a need to roll my blades, they cut just fine and I sharpen them (lightly) 12 to 15 times and they either crack or break, then I put a new one in the box and recycle the old!

But if rolling the blades helps your sawing, then by all means roll them!
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: barbender on September 10, 2017, 06:33:49 PM
Steve, I'm running 1 1/2" bands, with the 1 1/2 rollers. I really don't see a lot of difference between the 1 1/4" and 1 1/2" bands. But take my experience witha grain of salt- I saw about 5000 bf a year with my mill. An LT15 would probably be more fitting, for how much I use it😊
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: bandmiller2 on September 10, 2017, 07:43:33 PM
Banjo Picker, when you use your roller do you get the impression you are putting a lot of pressure on the band wile rolling, or just light pressure. Reason I ask I found a tool, in stock, that has everything your roller has only its  lighter duty. I think the tool is designed for leather belts, the wheels have grooves to impress parallel lines . If I turned new wheels it should work like yours. I get very long service from bands but I always open to improvements. Thank You. Frank C.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Percy on September 10, 2017, 09:07:58 PM
I think that blade flatness is important, especially on the wider blades and ones with taller teeth such as the turbo 7 or the 13 degree(ones I mainly use). I don't roll my blades but I do compensat for curvature with set differing on inner and outter teeth. It works well for me and is realativley easy to do with my setter(Suffolk dual tooth).
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: TimGA on September 10, 2017, 09:50:11 PM
     I have been following this with interest. I read an article from Tim Cook a while back, it has inspired me to strive to do better as a sawyer and a person.  Sometimes we get complacent and say it is good enough when we really know it is not.
      If you would like to read the article-  go to Cooks site at left - go to search window type in Following drop down and click on
       Following Rules Of Sawing Success   
                                                                     Tim     
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: barbender on September 10, 2017, 09:52:42 PM
Percy, that's interesting. How much do you find you have to vary the set from side to side?
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Peter Drouin on September 10, 2017, 10:14:55 PM
I went out and looked at some of the blades that are ready to be heat treated. All 1¼x55x7°
And I did find some light on a couple. Using a razor blade across them.
Maybe 2 thousand. Most were good.
I do run the blade tight, With the needle going around and hit the back side of the pin it rest on.  ;D
So It does happen to some of mine.
Not enough to roll I think.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Percy on September 10, 2017, 11:55:05 PM
Quote from: barbender on September 10, 2017, 09:52:42 PM
Percy, that's interesting. How much do you find you have to vary the set from side to side?
About 4 or 5 thou. The procedure with my particular setter makes it easy. My clamp on set guage shows that amount of difference when you zero each side out before measuring set, as my blades get older(more curvature with age). I simply dont zero the gauge when Im measure the outter teeth and set the setter to the same for both sides giving me about 4-5 thou less on the outer teeth. No more diving. I think i run more strain than most(cept Peter maybe ;D). I havent measured it but my air bag is usually at about 85-90 psi.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: barbender on September 11, 2017, 08:10:04 PM
I have the same setter, but I don't have the clamp on guage. May have to check one out👍
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Banjo picker on September 11, 2017, 09:01:11 PM
Quote from: bandmiller2 on September 10, 2017, 07:43:33 PM
Banjo Picker, when you use your roller do you get the impression you are putting a lot of pressure on the band wile rolling, or just light pressure. Reason I ask I found a tool, in stock, that has everything your roller has only its  lighter duty. I think the tool is designed for leather belts, the wheels have grooves to impress parallel lines . If I turned new wheels it should work like yours. I get very long service from bands but I always open to improvements. Thank You. Frank C.

bandmiller2 you can adjust the pressure you put on the band somewhat with the Cooks roller I have.  If you go back and look at the picture what looks like a handle to move the roller is actually the means of tightening down on the blade. There is a slot on the back that allows the top roller to move up and down.   It has to have enough pressure to make the rollers pull it through, but there is some lea way as to how hard you want to tighten it up.  The handle that you turn is not difficult to turn either.  I guess thats all as clear as mud.  ;) Banjo
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: bandmiller2 on September 12, 2017, 07:17:33 AM
Thanks mate, so I guess you really don't have to put a lot of pressure on the band to do the deed. Do you run the band through the rollers several times or just once.?? Possibly Cooks doesn't show much about the roller so cheap blokes like myself won't try to copy it. Thanks again Banjo. Frank C.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: bushhog920 on September 13, 2017, 06:53:47 PM
     Con- no auto shutoff.
I modified mine with a digital counter, micro switch, and a 10 amp 110v relay all costing about $70. micro sw. makes contact with the cam at about the 4 o'clock position. the relay is wired with the power going through the N/C contacts ( so it will run if I do not want to use the counter ) so when the counter closes the N/O contacts at the preset count the relay energizes and opens its N/C contacts killing power to the sharpener. I love this mod I turn it on with adjustment set to not touch the blade, adjust till i'm happy with the grind and push the count reset to zero it then at 165 on the counter ( for a 12' ) auto shutoff. If I want to sharpen twice I just hit the reset to zero power comes back on and off it goes. Just remember to cut the two switches off on the sharpener when done because when you cut off the power to the counter the sharpener will turn on.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20928/sharpener.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505361735)
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Rachiano on September 18, 2017, 03:38:04 AM
I came across this video on a band roller..
https://youtu.be/Hdc5xipiZpY
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Pabene on September 19, 2017, 03:26:10 AM
About blades flatness,
I think that the blades "out of flatness" does not depends on what kind of wheel belt you have but the wheel diameter is important. It is a fact that a band, as is bent with a radius, will also be concave (cross the band direction), on the outside of the radius. You can convince your self by a simple test. Bend e new flat blade, with a radius of about 4-5", without any wheel involved, just a free bend. Keep it in this position and check the flatness across the outside.
When the blade is running in the saw it will "remember" more and more of this effect and it will be permanent out of flatness. This behavior for a bent band has a name as I can't remember but it is well known in the "stress theory". My English is not good enough to explain things like this better.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Kbeitz on September 19, 2017, 06:43:28 AM
I would think it would have to do with how much crown you'r wheels have.
The band when bent over the crown will take it's shape after a while.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: ladylake on September 19, 2017, 07:07:55 AM
 

The band bends away from the crown on the wheel, concave on the outside of the band.  Steve
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: barbender on September 19, 2017, 09:29:00 AM
Steve, I was surprised to find that on the blades I checked. They were bent away from the wheel.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Deese on September 19, 2017, 03:41:22 PM
Ladylake and barbender are correct. It is a term called anticlastic curvature.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: bandmiller2 on September 19, 2017, 07:35:02 PM
In light of this anticlastic curvature and having one wheel of the roller flat and the other rounded which way do you feed the band through the rollers. Do you run the rounded roller in the valley or on the hill top.?? Frank C.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Kbeitz on September 19, 2017, 07:42:05 PM
Google says it's stronger that way... In other words don't fix it...
So that makes one less thing that I have to build..
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: JB Griffin on September 19, 2017, 09:56:56 PM
It might be stronger,  but that don't mean it'll saw better that way. Just saying.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: 4x4American on September 19, 2017, 10:33:57 PM
Google was wrong!   :D :D


Fact of the matter is that it depends on your guides.  Think of it like a chair.  If your blade is touching roller guides the way a rocking chain touches the floor, that blades gonna walk all over the place.  If your blade touches the guide like a regular chair touches the ground, it will be stable.  If you have sandwich guides or like Bakers bullet guides I reckon it don't much matter.


Frank I run the rounded roller on the crown/hilltop side.  Never tried it the other way and I think I will for experimental purposes. 



Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Percy on September 19, 2017, 10:44:00 PM
Quote from: 4x4American on September 19, 2017, 10:33:57 PM
Google was wrong!   :D :D


  Think of it like a chair.  If your blade is touching roller guides the way a rocking chain touches the floor, that blades gonna walk all over the place.  If your blade touches the guide like a regular chair touches the ground, it will be stable.   


Very good analagy. This anticlastic thing gave me much grief years ago. I never could find a cooks roller so I compensated with less set on the outer teeth or more set on inner teeth. Experimented till the dive went away. Sometimes if I am pushing hard, I get a small wave which your analagy explains. Thanks.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: kelLOGg on September 20, 2017, 06:57:11 AM
Quote from: Kbeitz on September 19, 2017, 07:42:05 PM
Google says it's stronger that way... In other words don't fix it...
So that makes one less thing that I have to build..

What's stronger?? and what does that way refer to???

Subsequent posters must know but I'm lost.
Bob

Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Kbeitz on September 20, 2017, 07:18:07 AM
Quote from: kelLOGg on September 20, 2017, 06:57:11 AM
Quote from: Kbeitz on September 19, 2017, 07:42:05 PM
Google says it's stronger that way... In other words don't fix it...
So that makes one less thing that I have to build..

What's stronger?? and what does that way refer to???

Subsequent posters must know but I'm lost.
Bob

The shape formed in the steel.
It's like tubing. Weight for weight tubing is much stronger than flat steel.
anticlastic curvature makes for a strong structural shape.
I know it has nothing to do with a saw blade but I had to put in my $0.02.
I'm not having problems with my sawing so I'm not going to roll my bands.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: kelLOGg on September 20, 2017, 07:30:43 AM
Thx. get it now.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: YellowHammer on September 20, 2017, 07:57:36 AM
Here's a very special grind profile I developed using the CBN but I'm sure the Cooks would make it also. It took about 2 hours to make it. I think it will work great sawing popsicle sticks from balsa wood. 

Actually, this is what you get when the auto shut off mechanism doesn't function, the dog distracts me, I leave for awhile, get busy doing something else, and my wife later comes in saying "the sharpener is running but nothing is happening" :D :D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/IMG_0487.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1505908181)
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: LeeB on September 20, 2017, 08:21:59 AM
Did one about two weeks ago that I remembered about just before it that far but it was pretty close. I got distracted while unloading some tile and sliced the side of my finger of on a broken one. Wear gloves people.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Percy on September 20, 2017, 10:22:40 AM
Quote from: YellowHammer on September 20, 2017, 07:57:36 AM
Here's a very special grind profile I developed using the CBN but I'm sure the Cooks would make it also. It took about 2 hours to make it. I think it will work great sawing popsicle sticks from balsa wood. 

Actually, this is what you get when the auto shut off mechanism doesn't function, the dog distracts me, I leave for awhile, get busy doing something else, and my wife later comes in saying "the sharpener is running but nothing is happening" :D :D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/IMG_0487.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1505908181)
I have a very similar profile on one of my blades.......Cell phone rang and I didnt put the magnet on.....and got busy.....
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: LeeB on September 21, 2017, 03:50:31 AM
Back to the sharpener and away from the flattening. Has anyone else noticed that the cooks sharpener is actually at ~8*, or is this just unique to my unit? Has anyone corrected theirs to 7*? Up til now I have been using WM 9/29 blades but am considering switching to 7* blades. All the cams I have have been altered so are no longer true to any manufacturers profile any longer any way. I plan on getting a new cam and would like to possibly try the Kasco 7* blades. Are there any Kasco and WM 7* profiles that are close enough to the same that there would not be a huge difference in the profile? Will the fact that my machine is actually 8* make a lot of difference?
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: YellowHammer on September 21, 2017, 04:05:40 AM
The Cooks bands are stock 8°, so mine had an 8°, 10° and 12° hole from the factory.  I don't know if it made much of a difference but I modified both my sharpener and cams to match both angle and profile of the WM bands.  I don't know about the Kasco, I never sharpened them. 

Since mine had holes at 8° And 10° I bisected the hole with a caliper and drilled and tapped the hole at 9°.  I also added a hole at 7° and 4°.  I could never get the stock Cooks or WM cam profiles to match up too well, so bought new cams and hand ground them to almost, within a few thousandths, to exactly match each blade profile.  I never did get around to matching the Turbos.

Richard, at Cutting Edge, also sold me a cam, as well as some simple and effective angle adjustment and confirmation plates for setting and checking the angle.

Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: LeeB on September 21, 2017, 05:48:24 AM
I talked to Richard about the adjustments when at one of the sawing events at Jake's but have since forgotten all the great advice he gave me. Should have recorded it. Guess I will drill and tap a few holes on my setter too and order a new cam from Richard. I assume he does make them for drag sharpeners as well as CBN types? Like you, I never found the ones from Cooks or WM to be quite right, hence all of the ones I have are now modified and mostly not well done.  ::)
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: bandmiller2 on September 21, 2017, 06:49:07 AM
It would take a real sharp dude to tell the difference between a 7 and 8 ground band, its just not much. The cats claw has the motor and arbor that pivots, shoulder bolts are screwed into holes and they rest on the frame to get hook angles. The holes make it handy but the assembly is also clamped and can be clamped between bolt holes. I would check you bands, with an accurate protractor head, no matter what the machines dial or holes say, one or two degrees taint much. Sharp is much more important than a degree or two. Frank C.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Chuck White on September 21, 2017, 08:38:38 AM
I agree with Frank!

I have changed hook angle a few times by just clamping the grinder "in-between" the predrilled holes!

It works, but the outcome might not be 100% perfect, but within a few percentages!  ;)
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: LeeB on September 21, 2017, 08:39:43 AM
This is true Frank and I never worried about the 1 degree before. I do need to get another cam or two though. I have a half dozen or so but all are modified and experimented on and don't come close to matching any profiles on a new blade.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Deese on September 21, 2017, 12:05:44 PM
I ordered a box of 4° Kasko blades, 4° and 7° adjustment plates/gauges, and a 4° cam from Richard "Cutting Edge".
Guys, Cutting Edge has totally changed my experience sharpening blades. I simply put the 4° gauge where the blade would normally go, lower the head until it sits flat on top of the gauge, then clamp it tightly. I haven't drilled any holes.

And the cam from Cutting Edge works like a charm. It matches the blade profile as close to perfect as you can possibly get. I was amazed. I've NEVER had a cam that is this precise.

I called and told him that I wanted a 7° cam, and he told me that it wasn't necessary, that I can use that same cam for the Kasko 7° with a separate grind rock that matches that blade profile.

I will say this, my experience dealing with Cutting Edge has been fantastic. He has my business. I would strongly consider giving him a chance with literally any of your sharpening needs. I used to dread sharpening blades. Now it's almost a pleasure. Almost.  :D
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: LeeB on September 21, 2017, 12:21:38 PM
Where are you getting your wheels from Deese and what kind are you using?
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Pabene on September 21, 2017, 12:38:01 PM
I think it is important to check the hook angle after the blade is sharpened. If that kind of check would be performed in a grind shop you would use a "profile projector" or a microscope. It is hard to see the real angle with simpler measuring tools. The reason to check the angle in a proper way is that the wheel in the ginder has a wear, as increases for every sharped blade. The wheel wear results in a hook angle as goes in the direction from, let say 10° to 6°. What I have discovered is that you can not trust the scale or hole on your grinder. The hook angle is also the angle for the chest surface, closest to the tip/edge. I have seen more than one grinder rigged for 10° hook angle and caused by wheel wear the grinding result was 7°.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Deese on September 21, 2017, 01:06:37 PM
Quote from: LeeB on September 21, 2017, 12:21:38 PM
Where are you getting your wheels from Deese and what kind are you using?

I got scolded for not using the ruby red grind rocks. I've got 2 blue rocks left, then going red.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: YellowHammer on September 21, 2017, 02:05:32 PM
Quote from: Deese on September 21, 2017, 01:06:37 PM
Quote from: LeeB on September 21, 2017, 12:21:38 PM
Where are you getting your wheels from Deese and what kind are you using?

I got scolded for not using the ruby red grind rocks. I've got 2 blue rocks left, then going red.
Red ruby is the way to go.  Much longer life and more stable profile.  Cooks sent me some with their logo and they also sent me some from Norton, which is a very well known and common source of grind rocks. 
Richard sent me an experimental grind rock that was red, but was trick, and lasted an unusually long time.  It was a good one and was his secret recipe. 
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Chuck White on September 21, 2017, 02:38:22 PM
Anyone have a website location for NORTON?

I've googled Norton several times and can't get away from Norton Antivirus!

I'm looking for a source closer to me to order grind rocks, from Alabama, shipping is almost the same as the purchase price for grind rocks!
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Deese on September 21, 2017, 03:02:27 PM
YH- I've always used the 3/8" thick rock. I just went to Cook's website and it appears that the only size Ruby they have is the 1/4" thick rock. That's 1/8" thinner than what I'm used to. Is that what you normally use?  Just make an extra pass or two and extending the pushing "fork" further to compensate for the 1/8" loss in thickness? Shouldn't matter, right?
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Deese on September 21, 2017, 03:07:05 PM
I'm overthinking it  smiley_dizzy. Of course it won't matter. Answered my own question.  :D
I'm about to order 2 of them right now.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: bandmiller2 on September 21, 2017, 08:05:22 PM
Brother Pabene speakth the truth, one or two degrees is mighty small to compare. The only way I've been able to do it accurately is to use a machinists protractor with a white paper behind the band and leave a slight gap between the protractor and tooth face. Frank C.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: 4x4American on September 21, 2017, 08:07:07 PM
I get the ruby ones from suffolk saw
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: bandmiller2 on September 22, 2017, 07:54:02 AM
Chuck, google Norton abrasives, their headquarters is in Worcester Ma. I'am not sure if those wheels are a standard catalog item or proprietary, made on special order. Frank C.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Chuck White on September 22, 2017, 08:21:05 AM
Thank you Frank!   :)
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: barbender on September 22, 2017, 09:56:17 PM
I ordered a ruby and blue replacement stone from Cook's last year. The problem is, I put them somewhere "safe" and now I can't find them😊 I'll have to order more, then they'll turn up🙄
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: YellowHammer on September 22, 2017, 10:54:22 PM
I hate it when that happens! ;)
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: drobertson on September 23, 2017, 06:27:37 PM
Quote from: barbender on September 22, 2017, 09:56:17 PM
I ordered a ruby and blue replacement stone from Cook's last year. The problem is, I put them somewhere "safe" and now I can't find them😊 I'll have to order more, then they'll turn up🙄
:D :D  I bet they are on the shelf tucked into that cubby hole, a nice safe spot,, 8)
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: barbender on September 23, 2017, 07:56:46 PM
Just trying to figure out which cubby hole😊 The stone on my Cook's is getting pretty small, I either need to find the replacements or order more😊
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: bandmiller2 on September 23, 2017, 09:04:32 PM
Bender, the wheels are likely hanging on a nail with another wheel or small sawblade over them. Frank C.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: LeeB on September 23, 2017, 09:54:45 PM
I ordered 10 wheels yesterday. A mix of colors. That ought to last me for a long time. I'm using the last black rock I had bought from WM now. I think I bought it 5 years ago or more. Do they even sell them any more?
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: LeeB on January 10, 2018, 12:54:01 PM
Quote from: Deese on September 21, 2017, 03:02:27 PM
YH- I've always used the 3/8" thick rock. I just went to Cook's website and it appears that the only size Ruby they have is the 1/4" thick rock. That's 1/8" thinner than what I'm used to. Is that what you normally use?  Just make an extra pass or two and extending the pushing "fork" further to compensate for the 1/8" loss in thickness? Shouldn't matter, right?

I had always used a 1/4" rock before my last order and have never been able to get the proper profile. I switched to 3/8" rocks this last order and will never use a 1/4" again. Finally for the first time in all the years I have sharpened my own blades I'm getting the correct profile.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: kelLOGg on January 11, 2018, 01:11:17 PM
Do you dress the ruby colored stones the same way as the blue ones?
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: LeeB on January 12, 2018, 01:11:02 AM
For now I have only used the black 3/8 stone because I had a lot of blades I wanted to re-profile but I will dress the stones the same regardless of the color.
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: YellowHammer on January 12, 2018, 08:08:36 AM
Quote from: kelLOGg on January 11, 2018, 01:11:17 PM
Do you dress the ruby colored stones the same way as the blue ones?
Its important to dress each stone exactly to the same working profile.  Once I had one correct, I would push the edge into a light piece of metal deep onto the stone, and real time cut the profile into the metal, much like making a master key.  From then on, all I had to do to check was slide the gauge of the wheel to check.

The ruby stones hold their profile much longer, getting a more predictable and consistent blade to blade profile.  This also makes successive sharpening easier.   
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: kelLOGg on January 12, 2018, 08:10:44 PM
My question about dressing the ruby stone wasn't clear. Do you use the same dressing stone to dress the ruby as you do the blue stone?
Bob
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: Chuck White on January 12, 2018, 10:02:44 PM
I'm not sure Bob, but I would think that it wouldn't make any difference what you used to dress the wheel with as long as it got dressed!

Just sayin'!

Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: YellowHammer on January 12, 2018, 11:23:06 PM
Quote from: kelLOGg on January 12, 2018, 08:10:44 PM
My question about dressing the ruby stone wasn't clear. Do you use the same dressing stone to dress the ruby as you do the blue stone?
Bob
Yes.  No problem. 
Title: Re: Cooks sharpener
Post by: bandmiller2 on January 14, 2018, 08:15:45 AM
Can't bring myself to call them rocks sounds so crude, they are grinding wheels or just wheels for short. I use the ceramic blue or the reds interchangeably and really can't tell the difference. Both seem to last forever. Probably shouldn't say this but once I shape a new wheel I seldom retouch it and when I do I use a diamond grit dresser. Frank C.