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Other topics for members => General Woodworking => Topic started by: SlowJoeCrow on June 08, 2017, 09:47:12 AM

Title: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on June 08, 2017, 09:47:12 AM
Well, I ordered a 3hp blower assembly from TimberKing/Woodmaster and it should arrive today.  My goal is to build/assemble a stationary cyclone dc for my 24 x 48 woodshop. I very quickly outgrew my little Jet DC-1100 dc.  It has been a great little dc but I am growing weary of moving it from machine to machine and I don't think it has enough muscle to perform well in a stationary setup for my needs.  My plan is to couple the Woodmaster blower with the Oneida Super Dust Deputy XL and a filter kit from Oneida as well.  I just picked up a nice heavy wall plastic barrel for the chip container.
(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20170605_154818.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1496928956)

I am going to plumb the outlet of the blower so that I can vent outside in warm weather and switch to using the filter assembly in the wintertime.  I would love to blow chips and all outside, but my shop location doesn't enable that.  Building/assembling the unit myself instead of buying a complete cyclone unit from Oneida will save a minimum of $500, which will go a long ways buying ducting and fittings.  I plan on using Oneida for all the ducting - the 6" 26ga snaplock stuff.  That's my plan anyway, I will keep this post up to date with my progress.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: 1938farmall on June 08, 2017, 10:21:21 AM
I have 4 barrels like yours that just fit inside of a 4'x4'x8'h. box in a corner of my shop.  the chips are blown in the side of the box about 1' from the top & a 6" pipe goes out the top of the box, thru a wall, and into a filter bag in the garage.  the box acts like a cyclone.  with a 3hp blower it will handle a 15" planer & 8" jointer at the same time - and it's cheap :)
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on June 08, 2017, 10:09:18 PM
Well the blower arrived today, but it didn't fair well through the shipping process.  The box was beat to heck and the cord was damaged from the rough shipping.   No big deal but I will talk to them tomorrow about it.
(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/IMG95201706089513460856995HDR.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1496973182)

Here are some pictures of the blower itself.  I am impressed, it is quite heavy duty and weighs 130+ lbs. Cast aluminum impeller and housing.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20170608_203155.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1496973653)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/Resized_20170608_203224001.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1496973687)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/Resized_20170608_203211001.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1496973708)

The only thing that I see is the pipe flanges could have been a little longer, but they will work as is.  The flanges are roughly 1" long.  I powered it up briefly out of curiosity... this thing will suck the silly of out Sesame Street!!!  I am pleased so far and I think for the price it is a real bargain.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Just Me on June 09, 2017, 07:12:05 AM
 I have a unit of that HP and I blow outside.  A word of caution with an aluminum blower. Be very careful about what gets sucked up there as they can break. I use mine for cleanup so I now have a steel unit.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on June 09, 2017, 08:07:25 PM
I appreciate the words of wisdom and will remember that.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: 21incher on June 09, 2017, 08:23:10 PM
That is a nice blower. With the aluminum blower and steel ducts you won't have to run all the pesky ground wires like I needed in my plastic pipe setup. Can't wait to see it all together. You going to go with the auto blast gates? :)
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: YellowHammer on June 09, 2017, 11:08:23 PM
I've got a 5hp Timberking. It's a good machine. 
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on June 10, 2017, 07:07:42 AM
Which auto blast gates would you recommend?  I wasn't planning on using automatic ones but you never know.

Yellowhammer, I have seen favorable things said from you and Bibbyman here on the forum - that helped convince me to buy this one.

My next step is to compile a parts list of ducting and fittings and get it ordered from Oneida.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: DDW_OR on June 10, 2017, 01:39:05 PM
following.

i plan to make one setup for my 16x32 shop, and sawmill and firewood processor.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Delawhere Jack on June 11, 2017, 08:27:11 PM
I've got the little Dust Deputy and it works great. The collection barrel MUST be air tight. If there is any leakage of air, dust gets sucked past the cyclone. I'm using a blue plastic barrel similar to yours, but mine has a lid that is pressed on over a barbed lip on the drum, and has the locking ring. It was used for ground up jalapeno peppers for a big chain restaurant. I made a rubber gasket, plywood re-enforcing collar, and used RTV sealant to mount the cyclone on the lid. I can fill the barrel from the tablesaw or the planer and only have a half cup or so of dust in the shopvac.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: YellowHammer on June 12, 2017, 12:08:55 AM
following.

i plan to make one setup for my 16x32 shop, and sawmill and firewood processor.
I've got the one 5 hp serving my mill, the planer, the straight line rip saw and the chop saw.  Wr can run the outside sawmill and the inside shop tools concurrently, no problems.

I have the dust collector mounted outside under the roof eaves, up against the joists, to get it out of the way, kept from having piping major elevation changes, and so I don't have to listen to it from inside the shop. 

I blow straight into a dump truck, and even though we outsource a majority of our planing, between short run planing jobs, and all the other tools, we fill up this dump truck about every week or two, depending.
 
I know it's difficult, but setting the dust collection unit outside of the shop, either filling bags, bins, whatever, will guarantee that the shop will be virtually dust free.  Even setting a cyclone just on the other side of the wall, such as under an awning, will make things quieter and cleaner. The Timberkings come with a remotely wired switch to facilitate this, as shown in SJC's picture, to facilitate easy remote mounting.

BTW, to keep the dust exiting the pipe under control, I used an old dust collector bag, slit open the bottom, and tied it around the duct.  It greatly enhances the accuracy of the blowing dust. 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/IMG_0102.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1486610299)
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: DDW_OR on June 12, 2017, 03:19:36 AM
I donot want to hijack SlowJoeCrow's thread, so i will say that i get a LOT of rain here in Oregon
 so far for the month of June we have over one inch of rain

i like the idea of not having the collection motor inside the shop

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/27421/Glendale_Weather.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1479226725)
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: DDW_OR on June 12, 2017, 03:49:04 AM
For routing the piping i see two ways.
first is from under the floor to the tools that are not near the walls
the second is from the ceiling to the tools that are not near the walls.

I am thinking of under the floor. have the dust port near the electrical outlet for the table saw.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on June 12, 2017, 08:50:51 AM
I've got the little Dust Deputy and it works great. The collection barrel MUST be air tight. If there is any leakage of air, dust gets sucked past the cyclone. I'm using a blue plastic barrel similar to yours, but mine has a lid that is pressed on over a barbed lip on the drum, and has the locking ring. It was used for ground up jalapeno peppers for a big chain restaurant. I made a rubber gasket, plywood re-enforcing collar, and used RTV sealant to mount the cyclone on the lid. I can fill the barrel from the tablesaw or the planer and only have a half cup or so of dust in the shopvac.

Yes, sounds like our barrels are similar if not the same.  The one I have had food-grade glue in it, I just had to wash it out.  The lid is a press fit into the top with a rubber gasket and the band clamp tensions it together.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on June 12, 2017, 09:44:07 AM
Yellowhammer, great point about getting the blower outside the shop and keeping the on/off switch close at hand.  On my unit it is just 14/3 wire from the mag switch to the motor, I imagine on the 5 hp it would be 12/3 or heavier.  If you need should need a longer distance, simply swap out longer wire.

I have debated where to put my collector and how to run my ducting for quite a while.  My shop is the top floor of a 2 story building setup just like a bank barn.  The bottom floor is in the ground on three sides with garage doors going out to a driveway on the walkout side.  The top floor has a ground entrance on the opposite side of the shop.  Here is a picture describing it:

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20160610_174722.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1497274469)

Ideally the collector should be downstairs with all the mains running in the downstairs ceiling, popping up through the floor for the tools.

BUT, my shop is very much so a work in progress, meaning that I don't have a finalized floor plan and I am kinda afraid to go punching holes in the floor knowing that I may end up moving things around.  So, for now, I will put the collector upstairs in the corner of the shop and run my ducting overhead.  That way I can get up and running reasonably fast, and  when I plan on moving things downstairs/outside, I can take the ducting down and reuse everything.  More work in the end, but like I said, I don't have my machine layout perfected yet.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: 21incher on June 12, 2017, 07:02:18 PM
I can't recommend one but if I had extra money to waste the ivac setup on the infinitytools.com site looks real slick. :)
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on June 13, 2017, 03:17:47 PM
I mentioned that there was some damage to the blower caused by shipping.  I notified Woodmaster about this yesterday around noon.  In less than 24 hours I had replacement parts on my doorstep. So far my entire experience with Woodmaster has been very positive.  Today I placed an order with Oneida that will enable me to complete the cyclone unit.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on July 06, 2017, 10:02:21 AM
Well, here is a quick update... my order came in a while ago from Oneida and it is still sitting in the garage where the UPS man put it.  Lately I have been busy with many other things that have needed my attention around the house and farm.  But I will eventually be getting back to this project and will update as I go.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 02, 2018, 11:12:30 AM
Well, I have been slowly working on my dust collection system.  I was going to mount the system in the wood shop and I did mount the blower and filter assembly and then overnight I changed my mind and decided to mount it in the shop garage below the woodshop.  I wasn't happy with the setup that I had mounted and decided to start over before I got any farther.  The motor/blower assembly is heavy and I wasn't looking forward to taking it down just to put back up again.  But that is how life goes sometimes.

Here is the blower and filter stack mounted in the new and final (I hope) location.
(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20171227_181404.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1514908329)

I needed to rotate the blower housing on the motor for the correct orientation for my setup.  The cast housing is in two pieces and bolted together.  Take it apart, pull the impeller off the motor shaft and then you can get to the four bolts holding the housing to the motor.  So this housing can be rotated in 90 degree increments.  Got that done before I mounted it to the wall. 

Next is the Oneida Super Dust Deputy XL cyclone.  With some gentle heat on the plastic flange, it was a press-fit on the the cast aluminum blower housing flange. Nice.
(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20171228_183911.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1514908276)

I made a simple wall bracket to stabilize and support the bottom of the cyclone and you can see a flanged fitting on the bottom of the bracket that will lead to the dust collection barrels.

You can also see that I had to notch a floor joist for the motor to fit... of course I didn't see this until I had the assembly lifted up and ready to bolt in... yeah had to set it down again and cut the joist.  I mounted it so high for several reasons, one to get as much vertical space as possible for the collection barrels and two so that I could lag bold the mounting bracket directly into the wood sill above the block.  Before I started any of this, I needed to relocate some existing electrical boxes and wiring, that is what that older fuse box is.  I will be running this on it's own 20 amp 230v circuit.

Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 02, 2018, 11:24:57 AM
Here I have all the pipe in and sealed from the blower to the filter and the intake pipe in and going up into the woodshop on the second floor.  I also have the wye on the bottom of the cyclone - I am going to use two of the blue drums instead of one for more holding capacity.
(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20180101_170732.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1514910005)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20180101_170632.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1514910028)

It is a shame I had to block the window with the piping, but I have very specific space constraints to work with and the window was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I still need to run the wiring, put the pipe flanges on the barrel lids and connect with flex hose, and run all the ducting up in the wood shop.  All the pipe you see here is 6" diameter for reference.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: samandothers on January 02, 2018, 11:48:41 AM
Looking good!
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 03, 2018, 08:52:41 AM
Last night I wired the 230v circuit to run the collector.  This motor comes with a magnetic switch - I am going to put that up in the woodshop but in order to do that I needed to put a longer cord from the motor to the switch.  I quit last night right in the middle of that, hopefully I can finish that tonight and power it up.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 04, 2018, 07:54:06 AM
No pics but wiring is completed and I powered up the blower with no issues last night.  It starts up smoothly and quickly.  I'm glad I put it downstairs, that sucker is loud.  However I don't have my barrels or any machines hooked up yet so no testing of the cyclone.  I do think it will be a bit quieter with everything hooked up properly, time will tell I guess.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 08, 2018, 09:45:31 PM
Here is a picture of the collector completely assembled and all sealed up, pardon the old tractor in the way!  It is much quieter when the barrels are attached which is good and it isn't loud at all from the wood shop which is above this garage.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20180105_180014.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1515464872)

I really wish I had a good way of measuring the cfm of this system so I can compare it to my old Jet DC1100.  I can tell that the cyclone pulls more air, but I'm not sure how much more.  It will be way better, since the it will never lose suction and my woodchip capacity went from a small bag to 2 55 gallon barrels.  I am curious if one barrel will fill up faster than the other or if they will fill at the same rate.  Does anyone have a dual drum setup like mine?  Do they fill up evenly?

I am now working on the ducting up in the woodshop.  I needed to come up with a better machine layout as I wasn't happy with the way everything currently was laid out.  A lot of head scratching and lots of moving machines around but I finally got a layout that I like and I can process 12' boards with it.  I have started to run the 6" mains but I have a lot of work to do and I need to order more pipe and fittings.

Stay tuned...
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Larry on January 08, 2018, 10:00:20 PM
Running a planer will fill both drums in 30 minutes or so.  You might investigate getting a proximity sensor to wire to a warning light upstairs.  Cleaning the filter out is no fun.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: YellowHammer on January 09, 2018, 12:58:00 AM
The centrifugal impellers react negatively to downstream back pressure.  It would be an interesting experiennt to eliminate that pressure by not going through the air exhaust filters temporarily.  See what effect that has on your inlet flow. 
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 09, 2018, 07:32:59 AM
Larry,  I think that will be a must for my setup.  I need to research sensors and see if that is something I can wire up myself of if I should just buy the one Oneida sells.

YH, that's interesting, are you saying the impellers with curved fins do better dealing with back pressure?  That's something I didn't consider when I put this together.  I guess I need to get one of those air velocity gauges that I see guys using on Youtube.  In my case, it would be easy to "bypass" the filters for testing - all I would have to do is pop the black plastic cleanout off the bottom of the filters.  Originally I was going to plumb the system so that it could vent outside in the summertime and through the filters in the wintertime, but you can see that I didn't do that.  This has taken a long enough time already and I need to get up and running.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: samandothers on January 09, 2018, 09:42:05 AM
Is there an air return to ensure good flow?  Since the unit pulls air from the up stairs would it it need a return path to flow properly?   Do units that vent out side need an air return if in a insulated\sealed structure?
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 09, 2018, 10:17:42 AM
Yes, absolutely.  When you are moving that much air, you need to replace it.  In my case, the air simply travels back up the staircase located at the far side of the shop.  My building is set up just like a bank barn with garage bays in the lower level and I have my woodshop in the upper level which has one side at grade.  If you were venting outside from an insulated/sealed structure, the collector would create a vacuum in the shop, sucking air in through any crack available and would probably perform poorly due to the vacuum.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: YellowHammer on January 09, 2018, 10:28:44 AM
Yes, backpressure, on the outlet side, or head loss on the inlet side, can have significant effect on this type of blower.  These types of blower, specifically this geometry with the primary dust collection bags designed to be on the outlet are designed as high flow trash blowers where all the airflow and the debris passes through the blower into the containment system.  So these are designed to be heavy duty but with loose tolerances designed to not choke on the heavy solids.  Lower efficiency, lower suction pressure, higher tolerance for trash.  Although these have very high airflows when unobstructed, any constriction, on either side, will cause a decrease in performance.  I have no experience with your outlet filters and don't know how much they will choke off flow.  Maybe not at all, maybe something significant.

The classic Oneida style suction blowers optimized for cyclones and bags mounted on the on the inlet side aren't designed to handle heavy solids because they are supposed to get removed before they get to the blower.  So this style is designed for clean air, tighter clearances, and are higher efficiency.  However, they can't handle trash, that's why all the primary filters are designed to be mounted on the inlet, vacuum, side.

Anyways, I would run a few quick experiments if you haven't done it to get to know the characteristics of the blower performance curves.  First I would unhook both the inlet and outlet, and let if run completely unobstructed.  This will be max performance, and I think it will be quite impressive.  Then I would start hooking your components back up, one by one, playing with it a little, and you will see which components seem to have the most effect on performance.  Maybe the outlet filters will have no effect, maybe they will.  Maybe inlet side has some things that can be improved, maybe not.  Play around.  You'll get a feel for it pretty quick.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: 21incher on January 09, 2018, 10:31:05 AM
That looks really nice. 8)
It is funny but I learned a lot about material collection 2 years ago when I bought a Cyclone Rake for my yard. I purchased the 10 inch system that was recommended for my mower deck size. The hose would constantly plug up so the company sent out 2 engineers to look at it. Turned out it was the size of the hose with my type of grass causing the problem. They downgraded me to a 8 Inch system and that is unstoppable. The 10 inch hose had a slightly lower static pressure, but greatly reduced velocity in the hose so material would drop out of the air flow and start to plug the collection tube. As the flow started getting restricted the static pressure of the blower would drop causing material to block the hose. The 8 inch system has only a slightly higher static pressure but a higher velocity stream through the hose that keeps the material suspended and has never plugged again. There seems to be a little bit of magic involved getting a system tuned properly.  :)
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Don P on January 09, 2018, 11:12:46 AM
Yes, absolutely.  When you are moving that much air, you need to replace it.  In my case, the air simply travels back up the staircase located at the far side of the shop.  My building is set up just like a bank barn with garage bays in the lower level and I have my woodshop in the upper level which has one side at grade.  If you were venting outside from an insulated/sealed structure, the collector would create a vacuum in the shop, sucking air in through any crack available and would probably perform poorly due to the vacuum.

I forgot to leave a door open in a large shop with a 40hp dust system. We couldn't open the door until we shut down. Especially keep this in mind if there is any combustion equipment in the building, the makeup air will come down its chimney and the shop becomes the flue.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 09, 2018, 02:02:22 PM
I think other members have weighed in about using a dust collector that vents outside along with wood stoves... the two don't go together!!

I didn't really consider the differences between "through-flow" blowers vs cyclone blowers that are mostly clean air, I guess I will find out if bites me down the road.  Right now, I can stand in the woodshop and run the cyclone and my old Jet DC1100 at the same time and the airflow/suction is greater from the cyclone.  But I don't have a good way of comparing, I'm just holding my hand up to the pipe and feeling.  I will definitely remove the end cap on the filter stack and see if I can tell a difference.  The filters are 18" diameter by 62" tall pleated filters from Oneida, the biggest they sell.

I guess if I have performance issues down the road, I can look at improving components to help increase efficiency, but I don't think that I will have issues.  I have to draw the line somewhere when it comes to cost.  For example I could have went with even larger radius solid sweeping 90's compared to the large radius adjustable elbows that I am using.  But they are $40.63 compared to $17.37, which adds up.  For now my goal is to get the machines hooked up.  I am betting that I will have just as much or more money in the pipe and fittings as I do in the dust collector itself.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 09, 2018, 03:39:10 PM
For anyone curious, here is a parts list with cost associated for the cyclone build only.  This doesn't include any pipe or fittings upstream of the cyclone.

Woodmaster:
3hp blower  $575

Oneida:
Super Dust Deputy XL  $239
Filter Assembly  $529.21
8" x 6" Reducer  $14.23
24 Gauge Adjustable Large Radius Elbow $17.37 x2 = $34.74
6" Angle Ring w/ Precrimped Pipe Collar  $32.98 x3 = $98.94
6" x 6" x 6" Pants Wye Joint  $90.42

Lee Valley:
6" PVC Flex Hose (10' Length, only used about 4')  $59.00
6" Bridge Hose Clamps  $8.20 x4 = $32.8


Misc:
Blue Barrels  $20
Foil Tape, Silicon Sealant, Nuts, Bolts, Screws, Rivets $20

Total:  $1713.34 (plus tax)

I wanted to see if the cost savings was worth the extra work involved in building my own system, but it's very hard to compare my build with Oneida's stock dust collectors.  Their cheapest 3hp unit is the V3000 at $1859.  At first glance it doesn't seem worth it to build your own but here are the differences:

Pro's for my build:
- wall mount for Oneida is extra, mine is custom fit to go exactly where I wanted it
- Oneida's fan housing is resin, Woodmaster's is cast aluminum, along with the impeller, way more heavy duty
- Oneida filter is much smaller at 13" diameter by 36" long
- Oneida dust drum is only 35 gallons, mine has dual 55 gallon barrels

Pro's for Oneida V3000:
- Ready to install,
- Optimized for efficiency
- 7" inlet vs. my 6" inlet

The more expensive 3HP Dust Gorilla Pro is on sale for $2620, a large difference in price.

I could have used cheaper fittings, especially the pants wye, the angle ring collars and clamps, etc but I am glad that I used the heavy duty ones from Oneida, they will hold up in the long run.  Overall I am happy with the build so far, but I need to get the pipe network up and installed, which will take a bit more.

I welcome any feedback you all have to offer, thanks!



Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: samandothers on January 10, 2018, 11:27:21 AM
I am trying to decide whether to place the dust collector outside or inside. I would rather have outside to reduce noise and possible inside dust.  However I am not sure how to deal with air return and the heat loss of such a system.  This would be in my basement.  Part of which would be conditioned and have a wood stove.  I donít want to operate with outside door open in the winter.  Now is the time to plan before house building.
I will be using a Older Grizzly 4hp unit with 4 bags I got off CL a few years ago.  Currently plans are to build a closet/room for the collector on one end of the shop with some insulation for sound with furnace type air return and filters for air exiting and re-entering the basement shop.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: DDW_OR on January 10, 2018, 12:50:37 PM
.......Currently plans are to build a closet/room for the collector on one end of the shop with some insulation for sound with furnace type air return and filters for air exiting and re-entering the basement shop.
good idea.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 10, 2018, 01:17:55 PM
x2, build a closet to keep it in, sounds like a good plan, that's what I would do in a basement shop.  Make it big enough to house the air compressor as well if you use one.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: btulloh on January 10, 2018, 07:40:15 PM
x3 on the closet.  I put one outside about 10 years ago and it did have provision for return air.  The return air was not heated and in the winter it would take the shop from 60 degrees to 30 degrees in about 3 minutes.  It was a space thing at the time and it was my best option, but I've move on from that now.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: 21incher on January 10, 2018, 08:13:46 PM
You can get a kit for my woodstove that uses 100% outside air. I think most better stoves have that feature for tight houses these days. My Grizzly canister style collector is quieter then the old bag style one I started with. I think having the folds in the filter helps keep the sound from coming straight out at you.   :)
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: samandothers on January 11, 2018, 09:15:41 AM
Good to hear closet idea is the best approach. 

I thought about putting the compressor in there too since both are 240 v.  I was concerned about having the dust in the area of the compressor.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: DDW_OR on January 11, 2018, 11:07:42 AM
Good to hear closet idea is the best approach. 

I thought about putting the compressor in there too since both are 240 v.  I was concerned about having the dust in the area of the compressor.
plumb the air intake for the compressor to use either the shop air or the outside air, not the closet air.
if you are using the compressor a lot then think about adding an air dryer. that will help reduce the water build up in the tank.
is your compressor a vertical one?
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Kbeitz on January 11, 2018, 11:19:43 AM
Good to hear closet idea is the best approach. 

I thought about putting the compressor in there too since both are 240 v.  I was concerned about having the dust in the area of the compressor.
plumb the air intake for the compressor to use either the shop air or the outside air, not the closet air.
if you are using the compressor a lot then think about adding an air dryer. that will help reduce the water build up in the tank.
is your compressor a vertical one?

You dont want the compressor intake sucking cold air from outside ether.
You get lots of sweat that way. Take the inlet air from your heated room.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: samandothers on January 11, 2018, 02:22:50 PM
It is a vertical unit.  It makes sense to have an air intake exterior of the closet.  I will use air from the basement and not exterior.  Will look into the dryer.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 17, 2018, 09:20:03 AM
Here are a few pictures of the dust collection main being put up in my humble shop.  It is 6" diameter 26 gauge pipe.  The blast gates are there just for testing air flow and aren't in their final locations.  I need more pipe and fittings, which I have made a list and now ordered from Oneida. 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20180112_110202.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1516198291)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20180112_174515.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1516198335)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/44509/20180112_174535.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1516198249)

While I wait for that to come, I am wiring a 30 amp 230 volt circuit to power the jointer, planer, table saw and radial arm saw in their new locations.  Before I moved them, I powered them off of a large 12 gauge extension cord since I didn't no where they would end up.  What a pain that has been, plugging and unplugging all the time with a cord on the floor and in the way.  The new outlets will be in the ceiling close to where the dust collection drops are for the machines, that way I can minimize vertical obstructions.  Of course part of the wiring job includes putting longer cords on three of the machines since the stock cords won't reach the 10' ceiling.

This shop has come a long way, but has a long way to go until it is finished.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: samandothers on January 17, 2018, 10:02:23 AM
Very nice!

Could you run a vertical member down with the air duct and mount an electrical box near the machines and eliminate the longer machine cord?
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 17, 2018, 10:35:42 AM
I thought about that but decided to go the route with the longer cords, I really don't know which would be better.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Crusarius on January 17, 2018, 11:27:17 AM
I would prefer to have a plug in a location that I did not need a ladder to unhook it. Especially when cleaning or setting up. I am sure I missed what your ceiling height is.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 17, 2018, 12:30:30 PM
Very good point, hmm, I may need to rethink my approach.  10' ceiling.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Crusarius on January 17, 2018, 12:33:23 PM
if you have all of your equipment on separate breakers you can just shut off the breaker. That would be the next best way to do it.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 17, 2018, 01:27:09 PM
Well, that is just as bad since my breaker box is in the lower level of the building, it would actually be quicker to use a ladder in that case.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Crusarius on January 17, 2018, 04:26:58 PM
I tried :)
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: DDW_OR on January 18, 2018, 12:08:03 AM
Well, that is just as bad since my breaker box is in the lower level of the building, it would actually be quicker to use a ladder in that case.
put in a sub-panel for the shop floor. use cable at lease as heavy as the main supply, or one gauge heavier.

have a plug on a long cable hanging from the ceiling. that way you do not have to use a ladder.( that is the way we did it at work ). use 10 AWG 
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 18, 2018, 08:10:49 AM
Alright guys, I do like the idea of bringing the outlets down to machine height, thanks for the suggestions.  Right now I have 10/2 romex (solid wire) up in the ceiling going into outlet boxes.  Now I am thinking about getting some 10/3  power cord (stranded wire) for the drops, wire nutting it into the romex in the ceiling box and just putting a female 20 amp 230v plug on the drop ends.  All of the existing machines are rated at 15 amps or under so I thing 10 gauge is overkill but I wanted to plan for the future if/when I upgrade anything.

Let me know what you think.  I will tin the ends of the 10/3 wire inside the box to help hold up to the wire nuts.  Is there a better way to do this?
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Crusarius on January 18, 2018, 08:15:33 AM
Twist lock outlet on the ceiling with heavy gauge extension cord to the machine plug. That will give you the most flexibility of any setup. Will make it expandable and able to be adjusted for the future growth
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: btulloh on January 18, 2018, 08:35:43 AM
in the floor
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Crusarius on January 18, 2018, 08:50:24 AM
I have always thought about the floor but the amount of crap that gets into the outlet and if you ever move the machine then it stinks.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Kbeitz on January 18, 2018, 08:52:35 AM
You need to ask for SO wire or cord.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: SlowJoeCrow on January 18, 2018, 09:10:00 AM
Yes, I have thought about running both electric and dust collection through the floor,  but I didn't want to do that.  The romex is already run in the ceiling, I am going to go that route.

K, the cord I was thinking of buying is type SJEOOW, should be good?  A 20 foot roll should do my three drops if I just cut it in thirds.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: YellowHammer on January 18, 2018, 09:12:05 AM
You need to ask for SO wire or cord.
Yes, SOOW (commonly called SO) Flexible Service Cord is flexible stranded wire designed for for this type of thing.  Solid Romex will fatigue and eventually cause hot spots under vibration and movement.  Wire Romex to a junction box overhead, then convert to SO and direct wire to the machine.     

Extension cords do not meet fire codes if used for a long term installation.

Dust in outlets is a real problem.  They will fill with fine sawdust.  I get inspections by the local Fire Marshall once a year, and they look for that.  I was surprised how fast and how much it builds up. 
Here's a related thread.
http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,96290.msg1486979.html#msg1486979   
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: DDW_OR on January 18, 2018, 12:21:35 PM
and add a strain relief to the drop cord
something like this
https://www.platt.com/platt-electric-supply/Support-Grips-Single-U-Eye-Closed-Mesh/Remke-Industries/2201013R/Product.aspx?zpid=223182
you pass the SO through the wire mesh. then attach the free end of the strain relief to a hook in the ceiling. leave a slight bend in the SO between the strain relief and the ceiling junction box.
Title: Re: Whole Shop Stationary Dust Collector
Post by: Kbeitz on January 18, 2018, 12:23:13 PM
This makes the job easier...

 

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/cable_so.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1516296181)