The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => General Board => Topic started by: grouch on June 06, 2017, 09:06:12 AM

Title: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on June 06, 2017, 09:06:12 AM
Is there a hydraulic systems doctor in the house?

My little monster seems to have some bugs in it. I have some parts coming that I think will fix it, but now I'm a little worried they may be a solution to a problem that's not there and may do nothing for the problem that is.

It occurred to me that there are Forestry Forum members who deal with hydraulic systems from dainty to downright awesome every day. Maybe someone will recognize the symptoms and a cure.

After about the 3rd use of my homemade backhoe, one stabilizer cylinder started leaking much worse than before and one of the front bucket cylinders started streaming. Lowering the boom is a bit too touchy -- it tends to bounce hard. It drops quickly, the natural reaction is to let off the control, it stops, the whole machine rocks. My guess is that it's acting as a giant piston pump then and sending enormous pressure spikes throughout the system, faster than the relief valves can react. I'm not sure of anything, though.

The parts I have on the way that I hope will cure it are a double relief valve, a flow control valve, and a 3-1/2 inch cylinder to replace the 3 x 16 boom cylinder.

Any suggestions and speculation welcome.

Here's what the multi-year, spare-time project looked like when it was toothless, but articulate. (This was the first time after several years of working on it that I knew that it would at least move as planned).

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-4546.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1496753140)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-4547.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1496753140)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-4548.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1496753143)
Figuring out how to make that stabilizer -- hinge points, lengths, angles -- was the toughest part. 4 inch by 7-1/2 inch cylinder given to me by the owner of a local hardware store and feed mill. Came off a forklift he was scrapping out.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-4549.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1496753144)
No teeth at the time of this first test at the end of last August.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-4550.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1496753148)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-4551.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1496753147)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-4552.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1496753150)
Those are 11.2-28 tires on 10-28 rims, for scale. About a 9-1/2 ft reach.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: dustyhat on June 06, 2017, 09:25:05 AM
I want to say cushioning valve but im not sure what something like that is called. Anyway that is one nice looking build you got. sense were both from south central ky. maybe you can come over and use it .LOL.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on June 06, 2017, 09:39:15 AM
Funny you should mention a cushion valve (http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Valves/Relief-Cushion-Valves/1-2-NPT-30-GPM-1500-3000-PSI-HYD-CUSHION-VALVE-9-4019-50-H.axd), that's exactly what I have on the way.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on June 06, 2017, 10:04:17 AM
First off, I should have mentioned that I don't _need_ a backhoe. That's why this project kept getting pushed down the priority list. It's just I've wanted to build one ever since the first time I saw one as a kid.

Bulldozers are fascinating, but there's a lot of stuff going on that's hidden from view. A backhoe shows all the joints and actions. The way it's powered just adds to the fascination -- those hydraulic cylinders are just slow-motion steam engines with a different fluid going through them. What kid can resist a steam engine? Pressurized fluid pushes a piston and rod one way, move the valve and it pushes them the other way.

Here it is after the teeth were added to the bucket, with its first mouthful:

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-4565.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1496757421)
That's an old dozer pile of mostly sandy top soil, left over from digging a pond.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-4566.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1496757421)

And the happy (wrinkled) kid playing in the dirt:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-4570.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1496757424)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-4571.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1496757424)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-4573.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1496757428)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-4574.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1496757428)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-4577.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1496757430)

A lot of years between the daydream and the realization. 

:)

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Ljohnsaw on June 06, 2017, 11:16:42 AM
I like to make models of things I want to make.  You might have seen my cabin thread where I was unable to work on the actual cabin, so I started a model:

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20170210_b.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1486776168)

Way back (1990's), I had a Case 210B orchard tractor and I just wanted a backhoe - cause they are cool!  I gathered up 3 hydraulic rams - short but fat - that I thought could do the job.  Rather than draw it out to figure out the mechanics, I made a model of the rams and the arms out of some brass stock (from the train hobby shop).  For each ram, I soldered a short section of tube to the rod to act as the piston and stops.  The clevis came off of this one.

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20170606_c.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1496761483)

I made a replica of my tool bar - the thought was to hang the attachment from that on the 3-point ::)  The arms used here were just for getting the layout.  The actual backhoe would have been much more robust steel tubing and rod mounts.

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20170606_a.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1496761299)

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20170606_b.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1496761304)

It wasn't until last year that I bought my Davis Little Monster.  A whole lot easier than building!!!

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/DLM_06_tow.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1425257773)

(oh, yeah - I made this while I was at work, supposedly programming... ;) )
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on June 06, 2017, 11:28:05 AM
I like the cabin model and the brass model.
Not so much the bought backhoe: The boom looks too short and the radius of the bucket seems wrong for the pivot. Don't guess it was designed to dig basements, though.  ;D

I did my drawing in Qcad and later LibreCad and, of course, scraps of paper or whatever was handy. Modelling was done in cardboard and OSB.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Ox on June 06, 2017, 12:10:58 PM
You have the best homemade backhoe I've ever seen.  Very, very good job on that.

You look almost exactly like my uncle.  It's uncanny.  And if you added about 100 lbs and 20 years and change your hat you'd have me.  I'm looking at my future!  T'aint bad...

What is your little Ford's model number?  I can't make up my mind if it's a 2000 or 3000.  Is it a diesel?  I seen a little blue haze in one of them pics.  Thanks for sharing all that.  Pics of machinery is cool.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: snowstorm on June 06, 2017, 01:07:06 PM
Usually the pressure would be set lower for boom down than up. The return oil on boom down is just going back to tank. Some also use a smaller hose on the down side of the. Cylinder. A cusion valve in the swing would be a good idea most do. Lock valves for the stabilizer would keep them from drifting
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Ljohnsaw on June 06, 2017, 03:47:22 PM
Quote from: grouch on June 06, 2017, 11:28:05 AM
I like the cabin model and the brass model.
Thanks.
Quote
Not so much the bought backhoe: The boom looks too short and the radius of the bucket seems wrong for the pivot. Don't guess it was designed to dig basements, though.  ;D
Not a big backhoe by any gauge but it sure was better than digging with a shovel!  At full extension, the tip of the bucket is a 127" reach and can reach down 110".  The boom swings a full 180° which came in pretty handy.  As you see in the picture, it converts into a trailer.  You don't want to drive far with this one, it has a whopping top end of 2.5mph! :D
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on June 06, 2017, 05:44:33 PM
Quote from: Ox on June 06, 2017, 12:10:58 PM
You have the best homemade backhoe I've ever seen.  Very, very good job on that.

You look almost exactly like my uncle.  It's uncanny.  And if you added about 100 lbs and 20 years and change your hat you'd have me.  I'm looking at my future!  T'aint bad...

What is your little Ford's model number?  I can't make up my mind if it's a 2000 or 3000.  Is it a diesel?  I seen a little blue haze in one of them pics.  Thanks for sharing all that.  Pics of machinery is cool.

Thank you much for the kind words!

Gotcha on the tractor. It's a 1980 Long 310 (http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/005/8/1/5810-long-310.html). (service manual (http://edge-op.org/images/Long310/800/)). Long started out in Tarborough, NC and passed through Romania and Canada on the way to becoming FarmTrac or something like that. It's a licensed near-copy of a Ford. It's a 2 cylinder diesel where the Fords you mention are 3. Almost all Ford parts will fit.

[Edit to add:]
Oh, and that canopy is the entire top off of a 1980 Renault LeCar. Period correct, doncha know.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on June 06, 2017, 05:48:47 PM
Quote from: snowstorm on June 06, 2017, 01:07:06 PM
Usually the pressure would be set lower for boom down than up. The return oil on boom down is just going back to tank. Some also use a smaller hose on the down side of the. Cylinder. A cusion valve in the swing would be a good idea most do. Lock valves for the stabilizer would keep them from drifting

So I'm on the right track with a double relief and a flow control valve on the way?

My swing uses 2 cylinders and they start fighting each other near the limits of swing so it's kind of a built in cushioning. The only problem is that it has less and less force near those limits, too. I tried to copy a design by a Canadian on some machinery forum (wish I had a link to give him credit; it was a fine job on an old tractor).
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on June 06, 2017, 05:51:54 PM
Quote from: ljohnsaw on June 06, 2017, 03:47:22 PM

Not a big backhoe by any gauge but it sure was better than digging with a shovel!  At full extension, the tip of the bucket is a 127" reach and can reach down 110".  The boom swings a full 180° which came in pretty handy.  As you see in the picture, it converts into a trailer.  You don't want to drive far with this one, it has a whopping top end of 2.5mph! :D

That thing can move itself without just pushing with the bucket?

Mine had a low bar to meet -- just be easier than a pick and shovel. If I have to, I can get along with pick, shovel or clamshell post hole diggers for a little while, but I don't like to. ;D
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Ljohnsaw on June 06, 2017, 06:57:59 PM
Quote from: grouch on June 06, 2017, 05:51:54 PM
That thing can move itself without just pushing with the bucket?

Yep, an 18 hp Wisconsin twin engine coupled to a hydraulic pump.  Has a small hydro motor connected directly to a differential.  There is a lever to pull it out of gear when you want to tow.  The whole thing weighs ton!  It is really heavy.  I can barely get it up some of the steeper part on my property.  I think it was designed to be used in tract home developments.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: snowstorm on June 06, 2017, 07:12:41 PM
When the boom goes down the oil goes back to tank with little pressure. Case used a regeneration valve to help speed things up. That's more complies than what you need. What are you going to use the flow control for? They are used to slow things down. A simple open center system will not multi fiction very well. It's just the way it is
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: 21incher on June 06, 2017, 07:50:37 PM
Nice job on the build. You have to watch what psi the cylinders are rated for. Once you seal off a valve the geometry of the mounting and external loads applied can cause some pretty extreme shock loads that can cause seals to fail that is why the cushion valve should help. My little lightweight trencher uses 3 inch cylinders with 10,000 psi hoses, I am guessing you may need some larger cylinders at a slightly lower pressure to smooth it out. :)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on June 06, 2017, 08:19:55 PM
Quote from: snowstorm on June 06, 2017, 07:12:41 PM
When the boom goes down the oil goes back to tank with little pressure. Case used a regeneration valve to help speed things up. That's more complies than what you need. What are you going to use the flow control for? They are used to slow things down. A simple open center system will not multi fiction very well. It's just the way it is

I intend to put the flow control valve in the down circuit for the boom cylinder. My thinking is that if it can't be dropped very fast even with a wide open valve, it can't bounce the whole tractor regardless of operator experience. (Last time I used a backhoe was early '80s and then only occasionally).


Quote from: 21incher on June 06, 2017, 07:50:37 PM
Nice job on the build. You have to watch what psi the cylinders are rated for. Once you seal off a valve the geometry of the mounting and external loads applied can cause some pretty extreme shock loads that can cause seals to fail that is why the cushion valve should help. My little lightweight trencher uses 3 inch cylinders with 10,000 psi hoses, I am guessing you may need some larger cylinders at a slightly lower pressure to smooth it out. :)

Thanks!

The 3-1/2 inch cylinder is on backorder. That's as big as I can go without having to change the mounts. Should've designed in a little more clearance for the body of the cylinder at its extremes. My hoses are 4000 psi and all relief valves are set at 2000 psi. I don't know what pressure it really runs at but have a gauge on the way, too.

I expected bugs to have to work out but didn't expect to blow out seals. Not sure that's what happened, but it seems reasonable.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on July 03, 2017, 06:27:59 PM
All the parts and pieces have come in, but I'm still bogged down in other stuff. Those scalawags at Surplus Center told me some parts would be on back-order until July 11, but the last of the order came in over a week ago! They just want me to stop lounging around and get back to work.

Meanwhile, I forgot to post these photos. My daughter is a programmer. She was not much interested in operating the backhoe until I told her to just act like it's one of those crane things at a county fair you try to pick up prizes with.

Instructions given:
"You can operate one lever at a time or as many as you can handle, just don't swing it left or right unless the bucket is free and clear. It's like side-loading a knee -- the thing that ends careers for basketball players. Swing left, right; boom up, down; dipper in, out; bucket curl, uncurl. Other than not using swing to push things sideways, if something breaks on it, I didn't build it strong enough."

She was much relieved by that last one and ready to give it a try.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-6-4701.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499119882)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-6-4704.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499119882)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-6-4708.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499119885)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-6-4709.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499120827)

Thought I was never gonna get her off that thing.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Ox on July 04, 2017, 09:46:58 AM
No rocks!  If you need some I grow them here.  They sprout right up out the top of the mountain every year!
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on July 04, 2017, 10:04:09 PM
I have rocks, they're just crumbly. :)  Anywhere you dig around here, you hit sandstone. It's only a problem about 2 ft down. That's where it will wear out buckets and teeth. These test digs were in a 'dozer pile of mostly topsoil that needs to be spread over the pond dam.

When my son's basement was being dug -- by my neighbor with his big Kobelco trackhoe -- I could feel the vibrations through the ground about 300 yds away as the teeth were scraping through the sandstone. The teeth on a little Kubota backhoe were worn down to nubs digging the footer. It's pretty amazing for something you can crumble in your hands. Tensile vs. compression, I guess.

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: gspren on July 05, 2017, 08:28:59 AM
  I'm impressed, it looks like a lot of thought in the design and building. Also I guess you already know your daughter is much better looking than you. ;D
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on July 05, 2017, 06:13:26 PM
Quote from: gspren on July 05, 2017, 08:28:59 AM
  I'm impressed, it looks like a lot of thought in the design and building.

Thanks, it took me long enough to build the thing. If I ever work my way back to the beginning in my pile of photos, I'll show the complete build. So far, I've gotten back to 2013 and still not found where it all began.

Quote from: gspren on July 05, 2017, 08:28:59 AM
Also I guess you already know your daughter is much better looking than you. ;D

Yeah, but her welds are uglier than mine! (And that's not easy to do).


Meanwhile...
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on July 05, 2017, 06:20:37 PM
The flow control valve that I bought is designed to allow full flow in one direction and reduced flow in the other. I'm thinking it needs to control the flow _to_ the upper port on the boom cylinder, rather than _from_ the lower port to stop from having to delicately feather the controls to keep from dropping that boom so fast.

For convenience of adjusting it, I'm going to mount the thing directly to the valve stack unless somebody points out how that's a bad thing to do.

The double relief valve (hydraulic cushion valve) will be mounted on the pedestal thing holding the control valves.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: woodmaker on July 05, 2017, 09:26:46 PM
The flow control valve should meter flow coming out of the cylinder,not going in,so your metered flow would be in the rod end of the cylinder and meter flow going back to the valve,but allowing free flow into the rod end of the cylinder.

Something to think about: Welding can improve,looks rarely do  :D
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: woodmaker on July 05, 2017, 09:45:57 PM
The only reason not to mount the flow control at the valve is that you would subject the hose to a lot of high pressure spikes,but if you mount it on the cylinder,you can make the connection with sch. 80 steel,and eliminate the spikes on the hose. just a thought.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on July 06, 2017, 08:26:26 PM
Quote from: woodmaker on July 05, 2017, 09:45:57 PM
The only reason not to mount the flow control at the valve is that you would subject the hose to a lot of high pressure spikes,but if you mount it on the cylinder,you can make the connection with sch. 80 steel,and eliminate the spikes on the hose. just a thought.

There's a decision dilemma.

I could mount the cushion valve to the cylinder and the flow control valve to the cushion valve. That puts the weight of the cushion valve on the boom and the flow control valve where I have to get off every time to adjust it.

Mounting the flow control valve and the cushion valve back nearer to the stack valves takes that weight off the boom and puts the flow control valve where I can dial in just the right drop speed for the boom.

If the cushion valve does the job I'm hoping it will, wouldn't it prevent those spikes even to the hoses connecting it to the boom cylinder? I guess this sort of thing is why engineers earn their money. :)  I have no idea how long it takes for the pressure wave of a spike to propagate through the system and no idea how long it takes for that cushion valve to react. That leaves me with still building on hope and guesses and trial and error.

When the rains stop, I'll find out if I've guessed right.  :)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: woodmaker on July 06, 2017, 09:57:16 PM
My guess is that once you find the correct speed for the boom,you probably wont adjust it after that.  Good luck to you, and let us know how it works.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on July 11, 2017, 09:34:40 AM
Made some time to work on this thing through the heat of the day yesterday. (After several days and nights of rain and cool breezes, the temperature and the humidity ran a slow, miserable race toward 100. Neither got there, but were close enough for suffering).

It starts with the parts:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5494.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499777767)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5495.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499777768)

Been stationary far too long:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5496.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499777770)

No eggs.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5498.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499777770)

Closer look at the parts:
Replacement for a 3x16, to try to get a bit more oomph in lifting the boom:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5499.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499777772)

Got a glycerin filled pressure gauge and everything needed to tee it into JIC lines. Unfortunately, I forgot that my pressure and return lines are NPT.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5501.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499777772)

Cushion valve:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5502.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499777773)

Flow control valve (full flow one way, adjustable the other):
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5503.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499777774)

And two 12-inch hoses with JIC-8 fittings:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5504.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499777775)

The nearest thing to an assembly manual that I have are my chicken scratchings from when I was figuring out what to order:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5505.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499777776)

They are slightly less indecipherable than the scratchings from when I first plumbed the thing:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5506.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499777778)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5507.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499777778)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on July 11, 2017, 09:43:25 AM
I managed to get the 3-1/2 inch cylinder hung. About 1/8 inch clearance each side at the top.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5508.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499777781)

The local residents (red wasps) then let me know I was intruding:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5509.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499777781)

Back at the stack valve, the red line marks the hose to the rod end (bottom) of the cylinder:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5511.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499777783)

And its counterpart, the line to the top of the boom cylinder:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5512.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499777783)

It's aggravating to get a crow's-foot wrench in there to torque those fittings.

Here's the assembly for plan 'A', to be installed under that stack valve:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5514.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499777784)

Plan 'A' failed. Couldn't figure any way to get it to work with the hoses and fittings on hand.

Tried plan 'B' this morning -- moving things to the boom. I think I may be somewhere around plan 'F' by now. It's hanging by hoses and fittings and there's no place to mount the cushion valve. I'll have to figure out what needs to be done to make plan 'A' work.

This may work long enough for me to get it closer to my garage:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5515.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499777786)

I don't like that bend in the lower 12-inch hose and I don't like things hanging from fittings.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5516.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499777787)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5517.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499777788)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5518.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499777788)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on July 12, 2017, 01:56:50 PM
Hooked up the backhoe this morning. My system is not exactly a quick attach. According to the timestamps on the photos, it was 38 minutes from the time I backed up to the backhoe until it was ready to go.

The flow control works. With it turned all the way to its minimum, that boom will not lower at all. Discovered that while trying to get everything lined up.

Still don't know if the cushion valve will cure the problem of the bouncing tractor, and I still don't have a pressure gauge.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5519.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499881165)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5520.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499881165)

Highly sophisticated method of marking "pressure" and "tank" lines:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5521.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499881168)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5522.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499881168)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5523.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499881171)

That's not spaghetti:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5524.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499881171)

Pressure line to front loader comes from the power beyond port on the backhoe; return line from loader and backhoe tee together:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5525.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499881173)

Gotta pump some life back into it and get it off the ground:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5526.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499881174)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5527.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499881175)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5529.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499881178)

Now to align all the holes for 4 pins:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5530.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499881177)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5531.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499881181)

All hooked up and pinned in place:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5532.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499881181)

Bad hose art:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-7-5533.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1499881183)

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: tule peak timber on July 12, 2017, 02:14:30 PM
I was going to ask about the ty-wraps , then I reread the post. I sure hope you are making your own hoses !$$$ :)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on July 12, 2017, 05:39:34 PM
Quote from: tule peak timber on July 12, 2017, 02:14:30 PM
I was going to ask about the ty-wraps , then I reread the post. I sure hope you are making your own hoses !$$$ :)

All the hoses, cylinders and valves came from Surplus Center. Only that stack valve gave me sticker shock. I once priced a custom hydraulic hose locally. Decided it wasn't that important to have the length perfect to the inch.

[Edit to add:]
Oops! I kinda zipped right by the ties, didn't I?

Those zip-ties save me from having to refer to the tractor manual to remind me which hose provides pressure when I have the control lever for the remote hydraulics tied down. It is:
1 for P (pressure) and
Two for Tank (or any other mnemonic you want number 2 to reference). :)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on July 12, 2017, 05:47:13 PM
I didn't intend or expect to build a 2-1/2 ton see-saw. That problem appears to be cured now.

It felt pretty bad when it happened to me, but sitting almost above the pivot point, I didn't get the full effect. When my daughter dropped that boom and reflexes made her release the control -- just like me -- I was standing where I could see the front bucket lift on the first bounce. That's the whole tractor with front end loader and subframe being lifted. All the force exerted by that extended lever had to pass through the swing pivot joint. Nothing broke but hydraulic seals.

Makes me feel pretty good about my welds, now, at least.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on July 26, 2017, 11:37:13 PM
The backhoe had a droopy leg. One of the stabilizer cylinders wouldn't hold pressure. This is one of the cylinders I had paid to have repaired. They fixed the external leak and, apparently, created an internal one.

I had built the stabilizer mounts specifically for these slightly odd cylinders from an old forklift. Now the mount needs to fit the more common (and cheap!) tie-rod type cylinders with a clevis end.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-17-5554.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501126038)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-17-5555.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501126038)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-17-5556.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501126040)
Luckily, I had a couple of chunks of 1/2 inch steel left over from making the 'dogbone' for the backhoe bucket. This one is just right to make two new ears for a cylinder.

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on July 26, 2017, 11:47:42 PM
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-17-5564.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501126040)
Those are 3/32 inch welding rods holding a little spacing between the new bracket ears and the old.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-17-5565.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501126042)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-17-5566.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501126043)

I'm not sure if it needs that spacing, but welding a 1/2 inch flat bar over a combined 1/4 inch and 1/2 inch flat bar, and needing the holes to stay in line afterwards, I wanted somewhere for the weld to shrink without changing that alignment. Same spacing and technique was used for each side.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-17-5567.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501126045)
Each was tacked two places top and bottom and then welded along the top and bottom edges. 1/8 inch 7018 rod at 115A, DCEP.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-17-5568.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501126045)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-17-5569.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501126047)
I'm not good at overhead or vertical up. I'm even worse at those while standing on my head with a fan blowing hot, humid air around.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on July 26, 2017, 11:55:20 PM
The old brackets had to be cut off after the new ones were welded in place.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-17-5570.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501126047)
I used a cut-off disc to cut the 1/4 inch top and bottom plates back a little bit because I was too chicken to use a plasma cutter and risk gouging the new brackets.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-17-5572.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501126048)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-17-5573.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501126049)
Sawzall took care of the old brackets.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-17-5576.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501126050)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on July 27, 2017, 12:12:31 AM
Now it gets funky. Gotta weld around the lower back corner from the underside, up that sloping back edge and wrap it around the top back corner to the top weld. It also needs to be welded along the front cut edge where the old bracket was.

Miller recommends about a 15% reduction in amperage for overhead welding (with typical disclaimers, of course). Since I usually get decent results from 115A running horizontal, flat, that recommendation would put me at about 98A ...


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-17-5578.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501126051)
Oops! That's a red machine. Do blue machine physics apply to red machines?


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-17-5579.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501126053)
WARNING! It is well-documented that some welding attracts mutant steel seagulls with diarrhea! (Photographic evidence of their attacks may be found all over the Internet, however, there are no known photographs of the actual attackers).

If you find yourself victimized by these foul creatures...

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-17-5580.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501126053)
The most effective cure for those effects is a grinder.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-17-5581.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501126055)
Second try, using 95A. Just attracted a lone scout this time -- maybe a wren or sparrow.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-17-5582.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501126055)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-17-5583.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501126057)

Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. Before welding the two (mostly) vertical edges, the pin was a snug fit requiring a few taps with the hammer to go home. After the seagull attack, the pin goes in with just hand pressure.

I tested with a 3x8 cylinder left from another project. It works, but I'm going to need a 3-1/2 or 4 inch cylinder; the 3 can't pick up the rear of the tractor.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Kbeitz on July 27, 2017, 08:35:09 AM
It's nice to see someone still using a stick welder.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on July 27, 2017, 07:03:00 PM
Quote from: Kbeitz on July 27, 2017, 08:35:09 AM
It's nice to see someone still using a stick welder.

Just wish I wasn't so out of practice. Those welds look like I'm starting all over again, even though there's about 100 lbs of rods burned into that backhoe. Frustrating.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: GRANITEstateMP on July 28, 2017, 11:28:37 AM
grouch,

we use the "zip tie" method of hydraulic hose ID at the farm.  It works really well, unless my wife hooks something up...
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: woodmaker on July 28, 2017, 09:56:27 PM
I know this isn't as fast as the zip ties,but i change every attachment to have one male fitting and one female fitting,so there can be no mistake.I don't let other people use my attachments,and i don't use theirs ,so it works in my world.I do the same thing with my older fisher snow plows also.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: whitepine2 on July 29, 2017, 12:02:38 PM
Quote from: GRANITEstateMP on July 28, 2017, 11:28:37 AM
grouch,

we use the "zip tie" method of hydraulic hose ID at the farm.  It works really well, unless my wife hooks something up...

  I find paint on the connectors work nice "RED" for pressure side and "GREEN"
for return or any color you got. I also found that when you weld with a fan
it can blow the arc away from the weld streem and can cause sticking of rod.
Some say this  is why they call it stick welding LOL :D

    Just my way of doing things hope this helps.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on July 29, 2017, 12:23:37 PM
Quote from: woodmaker on July 28, 2017, 09:56:27 PM
I know this isn't as fast as the zip ties,but i change every attachment to have one male fitting and one female fitting,so there can be no mistake.I don't let other people use my attachments,and i don't use theirs ,so it works in my world.I do the same thing with my older fisher snow plows also.

I'm using the tractor's remotes with the handle tied down to power the backhoe and the power beyond port of the backhoe's stack valves feeds the front loader. When used with an attachment that doesn't have a control valve, that handle can't be tied down, and each of the pair of remotes can be either pressure or return. That ruins the scheme of using male coupling for pressure, female for return.



Quote from: whitepine2 on July 29, 2017, 12:02:38 PM
  I find paint on the connectors work nice "RED" for pressure side and "GREEN"
for return or any color you got. I also found that when you weld with a fan
it can blow the arc away from the weld streem and can cause sticking of rod.
Some say this  is why they call it stick welding LOL :D

    Just my way of doing things hope this helps.

I tried paint -- too many leaks on my old tractor for it to stick very long. :)

The fan was necessary for me to do that at all in the weather we had. I was welding 'way up in the night and it was still *stifling*. The worst problem for me wasn't sticking the rod, it was getting contorted to aim the thing and still see the puddle! I have trouble with out of position welds in the best of conditions. These weren't those conditions.  ;D
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: whitepine2 on July 29, 2017, 01:16:31 PM
 Yes I know about working in heat,I hate hot. I just found that a fan blowing was
causing all sorts of problems found when started back welding with fan off things
went a lot better. A friend that was working with me tried welding and found a problem and he is a professional welder we both learned a lesson that day. Just
thought I would pass it along for what it's worth. Keep up the good work
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Busy Beaver Lumber on August 01, 2017, 08:33:26 PM
Grouch, that is a fine looking backhoe. Wish I had metal fab skills like that. Just bought a ford 1710 tractor and would love a detachable backhoe for it
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 02, 2017, 06:34:38 AM
Quote from: Busy Beaver Lumber on August 01, 2017, 08:33:26 PM
Grouch, that is a fine looking backhoe. Wish I had metal fab skills like that. Just bought a ford 1710 tractor and would love a detachable backhoe for it

Thank you.

What you have to decide is whether you want to spend your time building one, or spend your time using one.  ;D It's the old "good, fast, cheap" triad -- pick any two. Mine took years to build in spare time, but I never had a pressing need for it. There was more fun than tedium in building it.

It could be done in a very much shorter period of time. This is especially true if you started with proven plans where all the dimensions -- especially hinge joint spacing -- were already worked out. I didn't like any of the plans out there and besides, I wanted to build *my own*. (Never claimed to be smart or even sensible about things).

Now that all the big bugs are out of it, I'm going to start posting the mountain of photos I've taken of the build from start to finish.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Crusarius on August 02, 2017, 07:41:07 AM
i'm in for the show. definitely look forward to it since I have thought about building something like this as well.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 02, 2017, 06:32:17 PM
Looks like a storm may roll in, so I'll make a quick post.

If you want to see a backhoe as art, take a look at BFreaky's homemade backhoe (http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/275598-tractor-backhoe-homemade.html). I imagine its cost pretty well reflects its status as machine art, though.

For some reason my camera decided everything should be dark today. Had to crank up brightness and contrast just to see these things.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-175696.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501711837)
This is my "owner's manual". After I got things fairly well worked out in QCad, cardboard, OSB and bits of an old Erector set, I printed out all the layers on one page just to see what it would be like. The above is the result. If it doesn't hurt your eyes too bad, you might be able to make out that each cylinder is shown at 0, 25, 50, 75 and 100% extension.


My starting point was a scale drawing (PDF) showing specs of a Terex TC29 (http://www.wardequip.com/terex-pdf-files/excavators/TC29-Specs.pdf) mini excavator. I can't attach the PDF because of the insanity of copyright law, but, for the purposes of this discussion, here's a photo of a piece of it:

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-175697.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501711837)

I imported the drawing into Gimp (http://www.gimp.org), measured the spacing of various joints and the bucket, converted that pixel count to millimeters based on Terex's stated "dipperstick" length, and then converted to inches because I'm still a dinosaur. They came out surprisingly close to workable. My bucket is almost exactly the shape shown there. Everything else had to be adapted to my junk, more or less. Terex was used because (a.) that pdf was there, (b.) that excavator has about the same horsepower as my tractor, and (c.) I figured they had some experience at excavating.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 03, 2017, 07:25:31 AM
"Ain't it funny how time slips away"
"It was 10 years ago, on a cold, dark night..."

Actually, it was broad daylight in the middle of June, but it was 10 years ago when I started accumulating materials to build a backhoe. You can't build stuff without stuff.

The plan was to build:
(1.) a subframe for my tractor, because I've seen too many photos of tractors broken in half,
(2.) a front end loader, because what's a backhoe if you can't move the dirt?
and
(3.) the backhoe, just because.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07061701.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501758229)
My wife convinced me to go to a farm auction. There are two manual-trip loader frames there along with some miscellaneous steel pieces.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07061703.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501758229)
I think that bucket of bolts was about $2 and I ended up using just a couple of them.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07061714.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501758232)
First test fit does not look promising.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07061801.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501758233)\
In fact, it looks ridiculous.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07061804.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501758234)
That's a lot of shortening. I think that loader frame was off of an Allis Chalmers, but I'm not sure.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07061805.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501758235)
Praying mantis in mid-strike?

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07061807.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501758236)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07061811.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501759360)
That's a long way to reach a bolt hole.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 03, 2017, 08:10:02 AM
When in doubt, get more stuff!

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07062103.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501758239)
That was $0.10 per pound. Sid, of R.E. Harp and Sons Recycling wasn't going to let me in the yard because some half-wit had sued them in an attempt at insurance fraud. The half-wit's own doctor testified against him, pointing out the age of the injury in question. Lots of farmers, construction companies and backyard builders had to find an alternate source of salvage for the time that suit went on. Sid softened a bit when I told him what I was intending to do and relented with a laugh when I told him, "Well, if I break a leg clambering on that steel, just dump some more on top of me, run me through the shredder, and send me and the chips on to China."

He got another laugh when I ran the Dodge over the scales and paid the bill. I had told him earlier about buying 1 piece of 1" x 3" flatbar from Fastenal for $1.10 / pound. I asked, "Are you sure about that amount?" He grinned from ear to ear and said, "You know you get a little bigger pile for your money at 10 cents a pound than at $1.10."

(I have recently learned that Sid passed away a few years ago. Would have liked to show him what resulted from his taking a chance on me, but at least he knew that day how happy he made this old codger).


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07062111.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501758239)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07062112.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501758241)
There's most of a subframe, loader towers and backhoe in there, somewhere.

Of course, you have to take measure of your treasure:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07062115.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501758243)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07062116.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501758243)
Some of the cuts were worse than even mine, but they were cutting down a building, not prepping to build something else. That's 1/4 inch wall, 5 inch square steel tube, over 13 ft long.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07062117.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501758246)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07062118.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501758245)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07062119.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501758247)
Some 4 inch by 8 inch rectangular steel tube, some was 1/4 inch wall, some was 3/16, random lengths.

Need more stuff! Another farm auction:

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07062301.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501758249)
Hard to tell there are 3 of those beams in the truck. Two of them are now being used to extend the track on my sawmill.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07062302.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501758249)
It was loaded pretty good.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07062303.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501758251)
3/8 inch plate on the bottom; 2 pieces (I thought I had 3) of 1/2 inch thick 4 inch x 8 inch angle, each 8 ft long.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 03, 2017, 09:01:21 AM
Surveying possible mounting points:

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07072602.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501764597)
It looks like some optional equipment was intended to mount here. Those holes were plugged with corks from the factory and the threads were pristine. Simple and effective.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07072603.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501764596)
More heavy duty mount pads on the back of the rear axle.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07072604.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501764601)
A wider view of the previous photo.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07072608.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501764601)
These are on the bottom of the transmission. That just looks thin and risky to me.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07072610.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501764604)
Underside, all the way back.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07072612.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501764604)
Same pads as above.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07072613.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501764607)
And one more view of the above, just one of the pair.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07072614.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501764607)
This location looks almost as risky as the belly of the transmission.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 05, 2017, 07:26:21 AM
My spare time for backhoe building took a severe hit about the time the above photos were taken. I had to build a house. My son talked me into acting as 'general contractor' as well as doing the framing, flooring except for kitchen and bath, cabinets, interior trim, finish grade, and deck.

The man who did the excavation has a grandson who is naturally fascinated with earth-moving equipment. His son poured the concrete for the basement (dead straight, too) and helped in many ways.

So, I built a backhoe for the grandson:

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07080659.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501931307)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07080660.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501931310)

The grandfather had bragged about how quickly the youngster learned the controls on the Kobelco trackhoe. When presented with the little yellow backhoe, grandpa took at most 5 seconds (he was already walking away by the time the camcorder was ready to record; I had flipped the switch as he was walking toward the kid) telling the young fellow what the levers were, and he was off on his own:
(screenshots from the video)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07090901.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501931309)
Look close and you'll see tennis balls stuffed in the ends of the tubing. Don't want wasps interfering with his work.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07090902.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501931312)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07090903.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501931312)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07090904.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501931315)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07090905.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501931316)

Naturally, his dad had to play with the toy, too:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-07090906.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501931317)

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Kbeitz on August 05, 2017, 12:34:43 PM
I don't know why I could not find a LIKE button..
But I like it....
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 05, 2017, 02:01:53 PM
Kbeitz,
Glad you couldn't find the button; your comment outranks a button. :)

Thanks.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 05, 2017, 06:52:59 PM
There were no 4 inch square tubes in my salvage pile, so I split a 4 x 8. Naturally, it went a little wonkers.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-08031802.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501972599)
The two pieces bolted back to back while I tried to grind the edges into something resembling straight.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-08043001.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501972598)
Lots of tacks and I still, to this day, have a tendency sometimes to pile up the weld. Most of that bead is just wasted rod.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-08043002.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501972601)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-08043003.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501972604)
Hmm. If you look closely, you can see the first backhoe I built in the center background where the biggest glare is. That was made for my son when he was little and is the same design used for the yellow backhoe shown earlier.

I don't remember how I got those pieces unbolted after welding the 4th side on each.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-08050310.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501972602)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-08050311.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501972604)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-08050312.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501972607)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-08050313.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501972607)
That's a 3/4 x 1-1/2 flat bar drilled for M16 bolts.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-08050314.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501972609)


Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 05, 2017, 07:08:51 PM
Many tractors have this very handy feature called "steering". It shouldn't be given up when adding things to the tractor. Modifications to the newly built subframe were needed to recover that handy feature.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-08052401.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501972610)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-08052402.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501972612)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-08052403.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501972613)
Testing and whittling went on until there was adequate clearance throughout the range of tilt of the front axle and steering.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-08052404.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501972614)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-08052405.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501972617)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-08052406.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501972617)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-08052407.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501972619)
Finally! Ugly last cut but _last_.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-08052605.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501972620)
Apparently my Clarke metal bandsaw was new at this time. It has since bit the dust due to plain bushings instead of bearings in the idler wheel. It sure made a wonderful difference while it lasted, though.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-08052608.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501972621)
Many hours of grinding were saved by that little saw.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-08060901.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501972622)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-08060903.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501972623)
Seagull alert!

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-08060904.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501972624)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-08060905.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501972626)
Oh, those nasty birds.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Ox on August 06, 2017, 10:22:50 AM
I'm loving taking your trip with you through your pictures.

I also hate welding vertical or upside down.  I never got the hang of it either.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: sandhills on August 06, 2017, 10:30:12 AM
I'm enjoying this as well, thanks for taking the time.  I don't mind vertical welds so much but anything upside down, well let's just say I tend to weld myself as much as the metal  ::).
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 06, 2017, 10:34:09 AM
Thanks Ox and sandhills.

I was just about to start another barrage of pictures and it gave me that "Warning - while you were typing... ".  :)
Thought I had these all sorted out, but still having to whittle the pile down some.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 06, 2017, 10:52:10 AM
Still custom-fitting the frame to the tractor.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09031608.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502029733)
There are always things in the way.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09031610.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502029734)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09031615.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502029736)
Still piling it on. Part of that, I think, comes from learning to weld using oxy-acetylene. It was a slower, more relaxed welding and I could take my time watching the puddle and filling it to any level.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09031616.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502029736)
The phrase every good welder hates, "It's ugly, but it'll hold". The ugly doesn't do any holding; it's the fusion under the ugly that's holding. I'm still trying to eliminate the ugly.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09031617.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502029739)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09031618.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502029739)
Oily rag - check. Dried twigs directly under welding area - check. Disconnected hydraulic lines almost directly over welding area - check. Hydraulic fluid all over the steel surrounding the weld area - check. Yep, ready to weld with the machine cranked to the max.

I usually create some smoldering fires when I weld. They're almost always the dried leaves, seed pods and twigs from a redbud tree growing right beside my welding table. It provides shade in front of my garage.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09031619.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502029741)
Base of the part that's going to sit on the pad shown in above photos.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09031620.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502029741)
Piling on even when doing horizontal flat welding.  :(

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09031621.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502029742)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09031624.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502029744)
I don't remember if I stopped here or finished filling that bevel. Maybe it'll show up in later photos.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 06, 2017, 12:20:40 PM
Continuing...

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09052101.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502035645)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09052201.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502035644)
When you don't trust your welding and don't know what forces are involved, you tend to weld everywhere you can poke a rod into.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09052204.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502035647)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09052502.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502035649)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09052503.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502035651)
Power steering lines clear.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09052504.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502035652)
Bolted -- grade 8, 1/2-13.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09052505.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502035655)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09052506.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502035656)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09052507.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502035659)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09052510.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502035663)
It's drooling.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09052511.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502035664)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09052514.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502035666)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09052515.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502035667)

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 06, 2017, 12:27:17 PM
These boxes (left and right) had to be cut off later. The movement of the loader posts stripped the holes in the cast bell housing. I think there was too much post above the attachment point and too much abuse by the operator.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09052601.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502035671)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09052602.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502035674)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09052603.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502035677)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09052604.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502035682)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09052605.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502035684)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 06, 2017, 02:43:16 PM
A little side note here. Anybody noticing the dates on those photos might wonder why I managed to get only 1 loader tower (post?) put on during '08. Here's some evidence that I wasn't slacking off the whole year:

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/house-08061210.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502044624)
Note the tractor holding one end of the trim for me. Never could convince it to climb a ladder; always insisted on working from the ground.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 06, 2017, 08:00:22 PM
Front loader needs a bucket. Did you know you can drive a ~3900 lbs tractor over 3/16 inch plate and not bend it a bit?

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09071501.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502063652)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09071701.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502063652)
Oxy-acetylene cutting 3/8 inch plate into strips.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09071702.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502063654)
Side view of quick and dirty torch trolley guide.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09071703.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502063655)
Overhead view.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09071704.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502063656)
Plan B for bending the stubborn 3/16 plate.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09071705.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502063658)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09071706.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502063659)
Didn't work very well.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 06, 2017, 08:12:02 PM
Front bucket build, version 1.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09072501.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502064397)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09072503.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502064397)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09072504.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502064400)
Note the curve in that back piece. Sledge hammer and rosebud worked. Not pretty, but they worked.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09072505.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502064400)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09072506.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502064403)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09072507.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502064403)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 06, 2017, 08:24:04 PM
Stiffening the upper edge.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09072601.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502065089)
1/4 inch wall, 2 inch square tubing.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09072603.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502065053)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09072604.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502065055)
A neat shop is a happy shop. Mine growls at me.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09072605.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502065056)
That's 60 inches wide and 24 inches from that 3/8 inch edge to where the (lumpy) curved back attaches to the bottom.

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 06, 2017, 08:45:41 PM
Closing it up.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09072801.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502066350)
Ends are also 3/16 inch plate.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09072802.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502066350)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09072901.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502066352)
One of the 3/8 inch strips cut earlier -- transition from bottom to back of the bucket.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09072905.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502066353)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09072906.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502066355)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09072912.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502066355)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09072914.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502066356)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09072915.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502066359)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09072920.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502066359)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: thecfarm on August 06, 2017, 09:00:14 PM
You sure do some nice looking work.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 06, 2017, 10:58:43 PM
Quote from: thecfarm on August 06, 2017, 09:00:14 PM
You sure do some nice looking work.

Thanks, but man you got me worrying about your eyes!
;D
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Ox on August 07, 2017, 11:56:41 AM
I like the way you think.  I wish my stupid brain worked better to come up with some of your ideas.

You mentioned stripped holes in the casting of the tractor for the loader mounts.  How did you fix them?  Helicoil type repair?
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Kbeitz on August 07, 2017, 01:11:47 PM
Last week I had an 8ft 6x881/2" thick I-beam that I needed to get strait.
I used my backhoe. I put the hoe bucket on it with pressure and lifted the
out riggers off the ground This put all the how and back of the tractor
weight on the center of the I-beam. Then I had to take a 10 lb sledge to
it as had as I could swing to get the thing strait.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 07, 2017, 01:37:17 PM
Quote from: Ox on August 07, 2017, 11:56:41 AM
You mentioned stripped holes in the casting of the tractor for the loader mounts.  How did you fix them?  Helicoil type repair?

I didn't fix them, I just did away with those side mounts. Patience; I promise to get photos up about that bug. :)



Quote from: Kbeitz on August 07, 2017, 01:11:47 PM
Last week I had an 8ft 6x881/2" thick I-beam that I needed to get strait.

You're confusing me with those dimensions.

Had to use my backhoe on Saturday to refine a path to a 13 ft red oak log, about 23 inches at the base. The approach came off the end of a pond dam, across the narrow spillway, then up the other side. It was just right to get me stuck at the bottom -- rear wheels losing traction as the tail of the backhoe frame hit the ground. Had to make it a gentler bowl to get tractor and log arch in and then out with the log.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 07, 2017, 10:04:27 PM
Remember the 2 inch square tube?

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09073001.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502156815)
Why did I do this to it?

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09073003.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502156815)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09073102.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502156817)
This is the eventual cutting edge of the bucket.
Molten steel shrinks as it solidifies.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09080105.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502156818)
Sides got reinforced with the 3/8 inch plate, too.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09080106.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502156818)
Look at all that chipped slag in the bucket.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09080107.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502156820)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09080108.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502156821)
That OSB blocking part of the doorway in the background is to keep a dog out and keep the dog from getting blinded by the welding.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09080109.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502156822)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09080110.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502156823)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 08, 2017, 11:48:07 AM
The exhaust system interfered with the loader frame. So...

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09080111.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502160736)
A piece of scrap flat steel cut to match the original exhaust flange (well, it matches where it counts), and a piece of scrap 2 inch pipe (nominal trade size, actual 2-3/8 inch O.D.). That lets the exhaust turn upward much sooner -- right alongside the hood.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09080704.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502160738)
Needed more chunks of 3/8 inch plate to begin making a quick attach system for the bucket. I used the specs for SAE J2513 (PDF) (http://opensourceecology.org/w/images/b/b1/Universal-attachment-mount-specification-sae_j2513.pdf).

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09081001.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502160739)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09081002.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502160741)
The hole was supposed to be tangent to those lines. Close enough.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09081004.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502160741)
Leaving a little fudge factor and grinding room (as if enough grinder discs hadn't been sacrificed re-doing bad welds already).

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09081101.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502160744)
Can't apply much pressure with a clamp in that situation, but it only has to hold things still until tack welding.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09081102.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502160743)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09081104.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502160745)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09081105.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502160747)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09081201.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502160748)
The quick attach doesn't need that center part, but I might, later.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09081202.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502160749)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09081203.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502160751)
Should've removed the slag before taking the picture.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09081504.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502160752)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09081505.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502160753)
6011 rod, flat to edge, welded horizontal flat, and I _still_ got undercut. That takes special talent after so much practice.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 08, 2017, 03:47:39 PM
First test of the bucket -- on the wrong end of the tractor.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09082801.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502220344)
Looks a little light on the front feet.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09082802.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502220344)
And a little heavy on the hind feet.
Does that bucket make my tractor look fat?

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09082803.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502220348)
Should steer nice and easy.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09082804.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502220349)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09082805.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502220350)
It's not even full. Bucket capacities are usually given for a heaping bucket. I might have gone a little overboard with the size of this bucket.

The 3-pt hitch is rated for 2645 lbs (http://edge-op.org/images/Long310/800/index.php?page=119) and it couldn't lift that bucket. I had to back into the gravel pile and use that slope to help lift the bucket.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09082808.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502220352)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09082811.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502220354)
Maybe I should've checked the density of various materials and figured out a bucket size that way, instead of just saying, "I want it 2 ft tall, 2 ft deep and 5 ft wide and with a curved back".

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09083101.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502220354)
It was a useful test.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09083102.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502220356)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-09083106.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502220357)
Saved me from a lot of wheelbarrow work.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 08, 2017, 10:13:17 PM
Work on the tractor side of the quick attach system.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10033002.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502243960)
This was set up with stops to be repeatable for 4 pieces, each with 2 holes.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10033003.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502243960)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10033008.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502243963)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10041101.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502243964)
One of two, mostly welded up. All parts cut from 3/8 inch plate.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10041102.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502243966)
1 inch diameter pin still fits after welding.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10041103.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502243966)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10041401.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502243970)
Two pieces, no ends yet.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10041403.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502243970)
Starting to figure out the 7018 rods. Must've sneezed about mid-way through that one.

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 09, 2017, 12:10:12 AM
Fitting up the quick attach parts.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10041701.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502247843)
That's a 7/8-9 threaded rod being used to hold things spaced and aligned. The C-clamps and flat bar keep the implement parts of the quick attach aligned.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10041702.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502247843)
The one in the back is fully welded. The near one is getting the ends fitted.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10041703.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502247845)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10042301.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502247847)
End plates are on, now getting it ready for the loader frame.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10042302.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502247847)
1 inch diameter pin used for a gauge.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10042303.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502247850)
My pipe clamp was too short. Luckily, a 7/8 inch threaded rod fits well enough inside a 3/4 inch (trade size) pipe.
The square tube is 1/4 inch wall, 2 inch square.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10042801.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502247849)
Takes a conglomeration of clamps, pads and bolts turned into jacks to hold things in alignment for tacking. The object of all that prep is the steel wedge in the center of the photo. The top of the quick attach fits into the top of the receiver on the implement and that wedge pulls the bottom in and locks it.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10042802.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502247851)
Closer look at the wedge. It started out as 2 pieces of 3/4 inch thick flat bar, welded and milled to slide inside the 2 inch square tube. The weld seam was filed out of the tube.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10042803.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502247852)
Other end clamped and jacked into position.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10042804.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502247854)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10042805.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502247855)
Rotated up in the air for some of the welding.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10042824.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502247855)
Adding drilled pieces to a wedge to be able to bolt it to the lever mechanism.


Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Ox on August 09, 2017, 11:30:53 AM
My Lord, you did a lot of work on that project.  Good work.

"I must have sneezed halfway through that weld..."  You just kill me with some of your offhand comments. :D  I'm really having a good time reading through your posts.  I also think it's great that you include links to useful information for whoever else might want to build these attachments.  Well done.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 09, 2017, 02:39:44 PM
Thanks Ox! Actually, there was more work not shown than shown and I have a pile of dead grinders and grinding discs to prove it!  ;D

It was a bit of a shock to note how long ago it started and how much time elapsed between sessions working on the thing. On the other hand, it's kinda fun going back through the photos and remembering what it felt like at the time. And we haven't even gotten to the backhoe part yet!
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Kbeitz on August 09, 2017, 10:11:48 PM
Have you ever used drilling wax ?
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 09, 2017, 10:43:12 PM
Quote from: Kbeitz on August 09, 2017, 10:11:48 PM
Have you ever used drilling wax ?

No, most of the time, if I use anything while drilling, it's used hydraulic fluid from the tractor. Takes 4 gallons every time I change it, so I have plenty on hand.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 09, 2017, 10:56:43 PM
The world needs more chips.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10043002.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502332517)
Drilling holes in brackets for the quick attach.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10043003.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502332517)
The quick attach assembly is not touching the mill table.
That old Taiwan milling machine and the 1924 Hendey lathe (http://edge-op.org/Hendey/Hendey-01.html) to the right, holding up the other end of this assembly being bored, were acquired at the insistence of my wife. She has a mean streak.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10043004.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502332519)
Boring a 1 inch diameter hole through the 2 inch square tubing for a pivot pin. Most of the pins used for the front loader and the backhoe are commodity items available in farm stores -- hitch pins, top link pins, lift arm pins, etc.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10043005.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502332520)
A better view of the arrangement. It took much longer to set this up than it did to bore the hole.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10043006.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502332521)
One more view. Scraps of wood protect the lathe.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 10, 2017, 12:05:20 AM
After all that welding and drilling, it's time to try it on.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10050301.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502336807)
There are two 3/4 inch pipes in the photo, being used the same way a cabinetmaker uses winding sticks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winding_stick). (That wikipedia article describes traditional dimensions, but all I know is they need to be straight, true and twins).

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10050302.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502336807)
View from above.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10050303.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502336811)
Looking back the other way.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10050304.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502336811)
And with the top of the far pipe just visible above the near one. If the top of that brace in the loader frame and the top of the square tube on the bucket were not in the same plane, those pipes would make the misalignment obvious.

The only problem with that is, the square tube isn't straight after all that excess and unbalanced welding. :)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10050305.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502336813)
Curved back does not meet flat quick attach. What a gap!

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10050306.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502336814)
That's a big mouth for a little tractor.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10050307.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502336815)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10050308.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502336817)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10050310.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502336820)
The selected 2 inch bore by 24 inch stroke cylinders are about 1-1/2 inches from center of pin to outside. As shown, that would leave an inch of clearance, fully retracted.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10050311.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502336820)
This would be fully extended.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10050312.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502336822)
Left quick attach latch. Note that big gap.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10050314.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502336823)
Right quick attach latch. That's just too much gap.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 10, 2017, 12:37:08 AM
There are people in the world who say it's ok if your bucket has a fat butt. That's only true if your tractor is capable of hauling your fat butt bucket around.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10050401.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502339704)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10050402.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502339703)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10050403.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502339705)
Technically, I think this is known as a bucket buttectomy.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Kbeitz on August 10, 2017, 02:40:32 AM
It was 64 years before I found out about drill wax sticks.
Now I'll never go without them.What a difference it makes.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 10, 2017, 11:38:08 AM
Thanks, Kbeitz. I'll give those a try. Found Lassco, Drill-Ease, and BruteLube.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 10, 2017, 06:05:17 PM
Brackets for the loader cylinders.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10051301.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502402467)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10051302.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502402467)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10051303.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502402471)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10051304.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502402471)
Nice straight piece of 2 inch square tubing to make sure everything is in the same plane.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10051305.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502402473)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10051306.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502402473)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 10, 2017, 06:13:37 PM
Brackets tacked; cylinders on.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10051401.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502402778)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10051402.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502402778)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10051403.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502402781)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10051404.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502402782)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10051405.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502402782)
That's not good.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10051406.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502402784)
Closer look.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10051407.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502402784)
It's a 24 inch stroke cylinder.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Kbeitz on August 10, 2017, 07:33:50 PM
Search e-bay...

Johnsons # 140 Stik Wax Lubricant Cutting Threading Drilling Sawing

Or.

Lassco Wizer Drill-Ease Wax Sticks Drill Lubricant

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 11, 2017, 01:26:42 PM
Exhaust relocation.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10051501.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502471918)
Had to get the exhaust system out of the way of that cylinder.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10051502.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502471918)
See it down there?

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10051503.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502471921)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10051504.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502471921)
I'll just have to turn all those Nascar and NHRA guys down when they come begging me to build their headers.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10051506.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502471923)
That should be plenty of clearance. The cylinder is still wrapped in a plastic bag, there.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10051507.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502471923)
Reach for the sky!

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10051509.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502471925)
Full extension.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 11, 2017, 11:45:20 PM
Cleaning up some details.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10052201.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502509007)
The back of the bucket was pieced back together like a patchwork quilt.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10052210.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502509007)
Temporary saw, er, torch horse -- couple of pipes, a bolt, and a load binder that's not good for much else.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10052502.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502509010)
Closing the posts makes them stronger.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10052812.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502509009)
Strange beasts lurk in dark garages.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10052901.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502509011)
That box was bolted to the post, now it's welded and the only bolts are to the tractor.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 11, 2017, 11:54:24 PM
Mounting version 2 of the bucket.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10060401.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502509013)
Clamps and jigs, again.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10060402.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502509014)
Eyeballing the clearance.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10060403.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502509014)
View from the other end. Note the curvature of that 2 inch square tubing, which is why that baby I-beam is being used for alignment.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10060404.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502509017)
The focus is not so good, but the clearance looks the same.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10060405.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502509017)
That is an acceptable gap between the almost-flat back of the bucket and the quick attach plate.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10060406.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502509019)
Acceptable, but could be a tighter gap.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10060407.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502509020)
Appears aligned with the loader frame crossbar.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10061201.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502509022)
One way to force the 3/16 inch back of the bucket to conform to the 3/8 inch quick attach plate.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10061202.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502509022)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: thecfarm on August 12, 2017, 06:40:52 AM
I suppose you know this.............When I pick my loader up all the way up,the bucket looks level. Meaning it does not tip back towards the operator and spill some of the load out towards me.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 12, 2017, 02:10:23 PM
I thought about adding self-levelling to it but decided that was more complexity (more things for me to break) than I needed. Being without it makes the loader a bit riskier but tougher.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 12, 2017, 03:47:14 PM
Portable drill press -- sort of.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10061405.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502565633)
Lining up the bucket cylinder brackets using C-clamps and 3/4 inch by 1-1/2 inch flat bar. Note the drill bit sticking out beyond that back clamp. The brackets were pre-drilled at 1/4 inch then used to mark the loader frame. That gaudy looking orange drill is a double reduction 1/2 inch drill and will happily twist you in knots if it jams. A 1/4 inch hole is no problem; a 1 inch hole is.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10061406.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502565633)
Another view of the situation. The loader frame won't fit on my drill press, with or without the attached tractor.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10061701.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502565635)
A clampable, any-position drill press in the making. The part the vise jaws are gripping is a chunk of 3/8 inch thick plate, braces are some scrap stuff, and the upright is a piece of 2 inch square tube with 0.120 wall.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10061702.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502565637)
This thing came off of a weight-lifting machine (people buy them and then want them out of the way; good source of various pieces of steel). It slides over a 2 inch square tube.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10061703.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502565637)
Another view, showing the modifications made. It has some kind of plastic material to aid in sliding. That had to come out before welding, of course.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10061704.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502565640)
The brackets on the slider are bored for bolts that replace the side handles on the drill. The drill also had a D handle in the rear; that's the 3rd point of support on the slider.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10061705.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502565640)
The rear support is easier to see in this view.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10061706.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502565643)
If the 2 inch square tube is square to the 3/8 inch plate, and that plate is flat, the hole should be square to the face of whatever you clamp the plate to.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10061707.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502565643)
The slider has a little slop, so you simply pre-load in the direction the drill wants to kick -- you lean on the handles counter-clockwise when lining up and when drilling.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10061708.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502565644)
Closer view of the rear support, which is adjustable to make the drill bit parallel to the square tube (ignoring whatever surface marketing decided to put on the drill body).

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Magicman on August 12, 2017, 04:33:47 PM
The bucket build is going nicely.

I like that drill holder.  I have one that will break your arm or whatever else is between it and where it wants to go.   :-\  :-X
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 12, 2017, 04:45:23 PM
Hydraulics.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10062002.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502567380)
2-spool loader valve with detented float, open center with power beyond, 2000 psi relief. I think it's 7 GPM max, but can't remember. Standard pump on my Long 310 was 5.75 gpm (21.8 liters/min).

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10062004.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502567380)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10062005.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502567383)
Not neat.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10062301.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502567383)
It's a monster. Note the muffler location.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10062302.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502567386)
Not quite at full extension. The doors in the background are 8 ft tall.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10062303.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502567387)

Bucket cylinders are 2 x 24, boom cylinders are 2-1/2 x 24.
All hydraulics -- valve, fittings, hoses, cylinders -- are from surpluscenter.com out in Lincoln, Nebraska.

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 12, 2017, 04:47:23 PM
Quote from: Magicman on August 12, 2017, 04:33:47 PM
The bucket build is going nicely.

I like that drill holder.  I have one that will break your arm or whatever else is between it and where it wants to go.   :-\  :-X

Thanks Magicman. 'Bout lost your post while getting the next batch of pictures together.

I tried boring those 1 inch holes by just holding the drill. About the 2nd time it tried to twist my wrists off is when I decided to make something it couldn't twist in two.
;D
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 12, 2017, 05:06:06 PM
Bucket version 3.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10062601.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502571133)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10062602.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502571133)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10062603.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502571137)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10062802.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502571137)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10062803.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502571140)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10062804.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502571140)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10062805.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502571143)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10062810.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502571144)
Now it can chew what it can bite off.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 13, 2017, 12:07:23 AM
Teeth.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10082853.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502573779)
Mild steel is not the best material for bucket teeth, but it's what's on hand that counts.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10082854.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502573780)
1 inch thick by 3 inches wide flat bar, cut to 1-1/2 inches.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10082856.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502573783)
Notch for the cutting edge of the bucket.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10082957.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502573784)
Notched on diagonally opposite corners.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10082958.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502573786)
Step drill to 5/16 inch for tapping 1/2-13.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10082960.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502573786)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10082961.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502573788)
Using the drill press chuck to get the tap started straight.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10082962.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502573789)
And deepen the threads with a tap wrench. (Can't go all the way through in this setup).

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10082964.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502573790)
Slice 2 teeth at once. Note on the left that the piece is hard against the saw fence.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10082968.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502573791)
Almost through.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10082969.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502573792)
Clean up and finish the threading.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-10092862.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502573794)
Six itty bitty teeth installed. They make a lot of difference when using the loader to peel some clay and sandstone.


Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Ox on August 13, 2017, 09:53:32 AM
You sure have alot more work in this project than I realized.  I hate doing things over so much I would have left the bucket alone after the first round.  Your mind works in ways mine never will to solve problems.  I'm envious.  Sometimes in the past I thought I was clever but after this forum I now realize I'm just a babe in the woods.

I'm getting my chuckles in at your little elbow jabbed comments.  Think about standing in your yard and you're telling me the story of your loader and backhoe and you give me a jab with your elbow and say "I couldn't get the loader and attached tractor to fit on the drill press...".  :D  You really do crack me up.  I like to think I'd be able to meet you someday.  KY was my first choice to move to but because of the inheritance tax there I'm think AL is better now...  I've got an uncle in TX that's pretty comfortable and I expect to get some kind of inheritance when he passes.  This info is from him, not from me rubbing my hands together, drooling, being greedy, and softly and evilly laughing thinking of wads of cash.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 13, 2017, 02:53:48 PM
Thanks Ox! Glad it's not too boring for you!

KY has hills and mixed hardwoods. The little I've seen of AL was red clay and pines as tall as GA's.

Everybody builds on the ideas and work of others. I've seen pictures of people using a "mag drill" setup to get properly aligned holes, but I can't afford (or rationalize) one of those. Making do has been a way of life -- I figured out a long time ago that I don't have the temperament necessary to accumulate piles of money -- so "use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without".

Ready to start posting pics of the actual backhoe build now. It was almost exactly 3 years between starting to accumlate steel and that photo of the bucket full of top soil, above. The front loader is the most useful part, and necessary for counterweight, but the backhoe was more complex. Building the loader first also gave me enough practice at welding to tackle some of the heavy pieces needed for a backhoe.

Going back through files, I found that my earliest CAD drawings were not in Qcad but in an old DOS program called Turbocad (release 3). I spent Friday night getting that thing to export all the old drawings to dxf format so other CAD programs can read them. None of those were useful in the end.

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 13, 2017, 04:52:13 PM
One more shot showing the utility of that front end loader.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-111023396.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502657402)
Salvaging old floor joists -- 2x10x8 -- and storing them in the garage loft. Sure made it easier than carrying them up a ladder one at a time.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 13, 2017, 05:15:33 PM
Backhoe boom.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-110816583.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502657390)
That's a 5 inch square tube. My metal cutting bandsaw cuts up to 4-1/2 inches, so it required flipping to get all the way through. Finished angle of the boom is 35 degrees (or 145, depending on how you look at it).

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-110816584.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502657391)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-110816585.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502657394)
I tried to grind a 45 degree bevel on the matching ends.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-110816594.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502657394)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-110816595.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502657396)
That's sitting on one of the 4x8 rectangular tubing pieces to keep everything flat.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-110816596.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502657396)
Tacked -- 1/8 inch 6011 rod at 85A DCEP.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-110816597.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502657397)
Might have been better to sacrifice another grinding disk even if using 6011.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-110816599.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502657398)
Flopped to get the last 2 tacks.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-110816600.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502657400)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-110816601.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502657401)
And the mutant steel seagull with diarrhea strikes again.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 13, 2017, 06:32:59 PM
Boom base.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120401017.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502659766)
A mock-up using 4 pieces of 1x3 inch flat bar and a pile of weights from a weight-lifting machine.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120401018.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502659766)
Three 3x16 hydraulic cylinders hiding in boxes.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120415049.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502659769)
I don't remember how I came up with this contraption. It wasn't very good for milling a radius.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120415050.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502659769)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120416051.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502659771)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120416052.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502659771)
It did work, but it tried to get me a couple of times.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120505140.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502659774)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120505141.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502659774)
I don't know if these blue chips are a good thing or a bad thing...

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120612435.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502659776)
... and my supervisor wasn't any help at all.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120617443.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502659777)
Milled, drilled and welded together.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120617444.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502659777)
1/4-20 bolts used to hold things in alignment while welding.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120617446.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502659779)
A mirror image pair.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 13, 2017, 11:51:12 PM
Boom base boring.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120706493.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502664298)
The problem was getting that welded chunk in the vise with the pre-bored holes perpendicular to the table. There's no guarantee that the 1/4 inch holes bored before welding were still parallel after welding. There's also no guarantee that any of that 1 inch thick flat bar was still flat. Note how much is hanging out of the vise. It wasn't bored in that position.

I just picked one hole, used a 1/4 inch pin in the milling machine to align with it, then bored to 1-1/4 inch for the hydraulic cylinder pins. Alignment consisted of putting the pin just barely snug in the collet and then running the quill up and down while adjusting the part until the pin would slide into and out of the hole without moving in the collet.

After that, the part had to be repositioned in the vise and realigned for boring the 2nd hole. The above photo was taken after that repositioning.  The alignment device is just one of the cylinder pins with one end turned down to fit the milling machine collet.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120706495.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502664298)
The second hole to be bored is the out of focus one on the far right in the photo.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120706497.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502664300)
2nd hole bored.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120706498.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502664301)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120710517.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502664302)
This goes on the end of the boom as 1/2 of the pivot for the dipper.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120710518.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502664304)
1/2 inch thick with a 1-1/4 inch diameter hole.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120710519.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502664304)
Parts for the boom base hinge -- the swing -- made from 1 inch thick plates salvaged from a weight lifting machine (the pieces shown in an earlier photo).

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120710520.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502664305)
Testing the fit.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Magicman on August 14, 2017, 08:23:12 AM
Your machine work is terrific but I am seeing buildup on your welds.  Are you using enough "heat" and getting deep enough?
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 14, 2017, 03:24:45 PM
Quote from: Magicman on August 14, 2017, 08:23:12 AM
Your machine work is terrific but I am seeing buildup on your welds.  Are you using enough "heat" and getting deep enough?

Oh my goodness, the machine work worried me even more than the welding -- I don't know anything about using a lathe or milling machine except what I've read. Thanks!

My welding suffers from slowness. A lot of the beads you see are multiple passes in grooves or bevels. (A lot of them are also multiple passes after grinding out the previous ones because of pits or slag inclusions or just plain lack of penetration or fusion). Any of them that look pretty, other than too tall, are the result of a cap bead or beads of 7018 on top of root passes of 6011.

With 6011, I can dig in pretty deep, but early on I wouldn't get enough heat and would end up with slag inclusions that I'd have to grind out and start again. With any rod (and 6011 and 7018 are my favorites), I tend to move too slow while watching to see that the puddle "wets out" both sides and then I get the big pile-up on top.

This particular piece was the toughest for me from start to finish. Part of the reason for that 1/2 inch plate sandwiched between the 1 inch pieces is because of a lack of confidence in welding the 1 inch, even with bevels. There's just no telling how many grinder discs and rods were sacrificed for this part.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 14, 2017, 05:38:32 PM
More boring.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120710521.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502746185)
This rusty 1/2 inch thick chunk is destined for the side of the boom, in the middle where the boom and dipper cylinders connect.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120710525.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502746185)
Each hole started as a center punch mark, then 1/4 inch drill, then a progression of end mills to the final diameter. (My milling machine does not like taking large bites at once; it's old and likes things pre-chewed).

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120710527.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502746188)
Chips! But no dip.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120710535.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502746188)
The two holes nearest the center of the plate are 1-1/4 inch diameter. The ones near the ends are 1 inch. ASAE cylinders have 1-1/4 inch pins, but there are lots of non-SAE cylinders that use 1 inch pins. Since the plate was big enough, I included the option to use either. Easier to bore now than later.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120710536.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502746190)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 14, 2017, 05:52:05 PM
Boring the boom.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120717556.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502746768)
That's an awfully weak drill for the job. The boom was marked for the hole on each side, center punched, drilled to 1/4 inch for the pilot drill of the 2 inch hole saw. That tube on the right is 2 inch O.D. DOM (drawn over mandrel) with 3/8 inch wall. DOM is sold by the O.D. with no guarantee of the I.D. Each piece was bored to 1-1/4 inch I.D. for the pins.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120717558.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502746768)
The pilot drill keeps me straight.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120717561.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502746772)
Don't look at that extra center punch mark.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120717562.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502746771)
I didn't want to bore all the way through one side and lose the pilot hole for boring the other side, so...

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120717570.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502746774)
... check the thickness of the boom tube ...

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120717571.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502746774)
... and every now and then test the depth of the cut ...

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120717572.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502746775)
... and swap sides when appropriate.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120717575.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502746776)
Still haven't figured out a use for that little steel wheel.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120717576.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502746779)
Test fit.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120717577.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502746778)
Both sides finished.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120717578.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502746781)
Test fit.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120717580.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502746781)
Slides without wobble.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: snowstorm on August 14, 2017, 05:54:12 PM
I would toss the 6011. I hate that stuff. It's fine for rusty dirty steel. But good 7018 is way better. And always use bolt hands. Steady is best. And then sometimes old used rusty steel just dosent weld like it should. No matter how much you grind
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 14, 2017, 05:55:13 PM
A welding safety warning.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120721581.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502747583)
Don't loan your helmet to the local wildlife.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120721582.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502747583)
These can distract you while welding and cause you to mess up a bead. Or your pants.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 14, 2017, 05:59:14 PM
Quote from: snowstorm on August 14, 2017, 05:54:12 PM
I would toss the 6011. I hate that stuff. It's fine for rusty dirty steel. But good 7018 is way better. And always use bolt hands. Steady is best. And then sometimes old used rusty steel just dosent weld like it should. No matter how much you grind

I can't do without 6011. It's all-position, the cellulose flux eats through just about anything, and it's 60,000 psi tensile strength. There's a reason why it's called "the farmer's friend" rod. You can't always move things or clean things.

7018 wants a pristine surface. I've seen people weld through rust with it, but I can't and the manufacturers all say to clean.

All of the steel I'm using is plain mild steel. Problems with welding it all come from me. :)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Crusarius on August 14, 2017, 07:30:59 PM
I don't think your welds look terrible. the biggest thing I see is feed speed. Your speed appears to be inconsistent. that really is key to a good looking stick weld.

I also like to weld hotter than most ppl. But I typically weld 1/4" up to 1/2" plate. I get spoiled when I fab with 3/16".

Do you push or pull your puddle?
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Magicman on August 14, 2017, 07:54:48 PM
My welding comment was based upon the thickness of the material that you are dealing with.  I was confidant that you knew what you were doing, but the buildup had me uneasy.  Thanks for the reassurance, now git back to work.   :D
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 14, 2017, 08:52:06 PM
Quote from: Crusarius on August 14, 2017, 07:30:59 PM
I don't think your welds look terrible. the biggest thing I see is feed speed. Your speed appears to be inconsistent. that really is key to a good looking stick weld.

I also like to weld hotter than most ppl. But I typically weld 1/4" up to 1/2" plate. I get spoiled when I fab with 3/16".

Do you push or pull your puddle?

"Inconsistent" is putting it mildly. :D

As to pushing or pulling, that depends on whether I can stand flat-footed or have to stand on my head. If I'm out of position, it's any way I can get that sucker to go where I want it. That may be what attracts the seagulls.


Quote from: Magicman on August 14, 2017, 07:54:48 PM
My welding comment was based upon the thickness of the material that you are dealing with. I was confidant that you knew what you were doing, but the buildup had me uneasy.  Thanks for the reassurance, now git back to work.   :D

Never thought I'd have you fooled!   :D :D

So far I have never had a weld fail. (Knock on wood).

When I started out with oxy-acetylene, my great (or grand? I get confused) uncle told me, "Crank it up until you burn it up, then back off a bit." He had been in the Army Corps of Engineers in WWII and was an all-around good tinkerer, farmer and builder all his life. I must've looked a little disappointed in the advice.
He said, "You've seen those Sunday comics characters with the sweat beads?"
"Yeah. Called 'sweatles'."
"Well, when you see those sweatles, it's about ready to form a puddle. You're not there yet, but be ready. It's not close to hot enough until you see them."
"Ok."
"You'll also smell Fritos corn chips."
"What? Suuure."
His advice helped me with gas welding, stick and MIG. Not enough heat means little or no fusion taking place.


(I'm trying not to monopolize the "Recent posts" thing; trying to time my piles of photos when there's not much activity).
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 14, 2017, 11:42:40 PM
Boom base.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120722585.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502767893)
I didn't design this very well. It's too compact and complex.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120722586.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502767893)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120722587.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502767895)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120722588.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502767896)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120722589.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502767897)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120723590.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502767898)
This was a mistake. That bevel should be 30 to 45 degrees. It would be much easier to get a clean weld in there, then.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120804604.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502767899)
Look closely about the center of the photo and you can see where I had to use a rotary burr to gouge out some bad welds. That tight bevel shown in the previous picture was the problem. It took multiple attempts to get a good weld in that space.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 14, 2017, 11:55:15 PM
Roboduck.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120828818.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502768621)
Adding the swing wings to the boom base.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120828819.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502768621)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120828820.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502768626)
That dark chunk of steel from a weight-lifting machine, about center photo, is being used as a jig. It's bored for the spacing from the center pin to the swing pins.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120828821.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502768626)
Might be able to see it better this way.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120828822.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502768628)
Or this way.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120828824.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502768628)
Swing wings are on. This is the operator side of the boom base. Main hinge is in center photo, swing cylinder attachment points on either side, boom would be pointing back into the photo.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120828825.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502768630)
Looking down from above.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120828826.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502768630)
Note all the grinding.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120828827.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502768633)
Lots of side by side stringer beads of 7018 at 115A, DCEP. Balanced by similar beads on the underside of those wings. Looks a little overkill, in hindsight.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120828828.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502768633)
It's a steel roboduck!

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-120828829.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502768634)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Kbeitz on August 15, 2017, 09:49:08 AM
I worked at a weld shop and blue chips from the chop saw was normal. And HOT...
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 16, 2017, 09:42:35 PM
Quote from: Kbeitz on August 15, 2017, 09:49:08 AM
I worked at a weld shop and blue chips from the chop saw was normal. And HOT...

But, are blue chips good, bad, or indifferent when coming from milling operations? Do they mean it's an optimum cut, overheated, or just coincidental?
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 16, 2017, 10:02:21 PM
Rebore.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-121016155.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502933966)
Reboring the holes for 2 inch DOM.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-121016156.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502933966)
Closer view, to see the concentric rings of chips and oil.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-121016158.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502933969)
Note the smaller disc. Boring this plate on the drill press, I needed the 1/4 inch pilot hole. The small disc fit in the 1-1/4 inch diameter hole previously bored and provided the pilot.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-121025162.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502933971)
There's where it goes.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-121025163.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502933971)
The dipper end of the boom.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-121025164.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502933974)
Wider view of hi-tech working environment.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-121025165.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502933974)
It wasn't easy to weld down in that gap where the rectangular tubing has a rounded edge.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-121025166.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502933976)
The plates making up the hinge for the dipper started out as 1/2 inch thick. They look a little thin after milling the rust off. (Milling produces less dust than grinding).
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Crusarius on August 17, 2017, 07:36:07 AM
Quote from: grouch on August 16, 2017, 09:42:35 PM
Quote from: Kbeitz on August 15, 2017, 09:49:08 AM
I worked at a weld shop and blue chips from the chop saw was normal. And HOT...

But, are blue chips good, bad, or indifferent when coming from milling operations? Do they mean it's an optimum cut, overheated, or just coincidental?

Blue chips are typically bad for tool life. Means your are cutting just a little to fast. Heat is the biggest killer of tools.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 17, 2017, 04:54:50 PM
Quote from: Crusarius on August 17, 2017, 07:36:07 AM
Quote from: grouch on August 16, 2017, 09:42:35 PM
Quote from: Kbeitz on August 15, 2017, 09:49:08 AM
I worked at a weld shop and blue chips from the chop saw was normal. And HOT...

But, are blue chips good, bad, or indifferent when coming from milling operations? Do they mean it's an optimum cut, overheated, or just coincidental?

Blue chips are typically bad for tool life. Means your are cutting just a little to fast. Heat is the biggest killer of tools.

Thanks Crusarius. I read so many confusing and sometimes contradictory things about feed rates that I ended up just running it according to how it sounded and felt. It's an all-manual mill, so feed rates depend on the operator. :)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Crusarius on August 18, 2017, 07:41:26 AM
I am right there with ya. I do the same thing. Seems like there are 100 ways to do the same thing. The end result is the same but the processes are so different.

I just wish I had power feed. At least then I could start a long run and go do something else while I am waiting.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: rjwoelk on August 18, 2017, 10:10:27 AM
Quote from: Magicman on August 12, 2017, 04:33:47 PM
The bucket build is going nicely.

I like that drill holder.  I have one that will break your arm or whatever else is between it and where it wants to go.   :-\  :-X
We were drilling for through pins on a adaptor and had 3 ft of pipe out the sides with 2 of us it at least stalled the drill.
Grouch like your drill press set up.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: rjwoelk on August 18, 2017, 10:28:56 AM
Grouch I love reading your stuff,  :D Good way to start the day.
Have to look you up some time in my trucking travels.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 18, 2017, 06:59:01 PM
Quote from: rjwoelk on August 18, 2017, 10:28:56 AM
Grouch I love reading your stuff,  :D Good way to start the day.
Have to look you up some time in my trucking travels.

Thanks! If you're passing by Mammoth Cave, you're close enough to detour to here for rest and a cup of coffee. Last long truck that tried to get here had to back up for a couple of miles to turn around, though.  :D
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 19, 2017, 01:35:11 AM
Frame and swing hinge stuff.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130410749.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503119831)
Having half of the main hinge bolted allows for shimming it when it wears. Bolts need bolt holes. The 1-1/4 inch diameter pin and the vise jaws keep everything aligned so I can bore two pieces together.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130411764.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503119831)
Top half of the swing hinge temporarily held together with 1/4-20 bolts.
You might notice some discoloration and dings in part of the 'roboduck'. It had to be persuaded with heat and a ball peen hammer to get the boom pin holes back in alignment after welding.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130417779.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503119834)
That's a 3/16 x 4 x 8 piece of rectangular tubing being cut in a 4-1/2 x 6 bandsaw. The two pieces are for the main frame of the backhoe.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130417780.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503119833)
Exceeding maximum capacity.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130417781.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503119836)
Turning 1 bite into 2 can sometimes double the listed capacity.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130417785.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503119836)
Close enough for this job and a lot easier than using a sawzall in this case.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130417786.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503119838)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130501834.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503119838)
Two pieces assembled and welded and almost ready for mounting.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130501835.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503119841)
I should know better than to show closeups of welds by now.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130501836.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503119840)
Note the weld fillets milled off in two places. The reason should become clear, later.

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 19, 2017, 02:00:37 AM
More frame and swing.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130504866.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503120975)
Milling a bevel the hard way.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130507914.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503120975)
Two of three 5/8-11 grade 8 bolts in place.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130507915.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503120978)
The fillets pointed out before were too fat and interfered with the movement of this hinge.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130507916.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503120978)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130507917.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503120981)
Finishing up the last bolt-on piece.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130507918.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503120981)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130508923.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503120983)
Those are 1/4 x 3 x 3 inch square tubes, capped at each end by 1/4 x 3 inch flat bar. Swing hinge parts aligned and welded in the center.
(Random pieces of sheet metal seen propped up in these photos were used to prevent pets or stray humans from blinding themselves looking at the welding flash).

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130508924.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503120984)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130516967.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503120985)
The two pieces of 1/4 x 2 x 2 inch square tubing nearest that pipe clamp holding the frame rails in place are what the swing cylinders will eventually push against.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130516968.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503120986)
Boom base (roboduck) hanging on the main frame.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130516969.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503120987)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130516970.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503120989)
Probably can't see it in this photo, but there is a line scored in the frame rail for aligning the 2 inch square tubes. The red magnet just helped hold things square until the clamp could be tightened and diagonal measurements taken to confirm squareness before welding.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130516971.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503120988)
The top of the top hinge and the bottom of the bottom hinge are held on only with those bolts. They can be removed if necessary to put in any shims needed to compensate for wear.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 19, 2017, 02:10:39 AM
Dogbone.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130531284.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503122654)
Freehand cutting a chunk that started out as one side of a 1/2 x 4 x 8 angle.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130531285.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503122654)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130531286.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503122657)
I was wearing 2 pairs of glasses while cutting these things. Didn't quite see it this well, though.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130531287.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503122657)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130531293.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503122659)
I cut 4 of these parts but only used 2 of them as intended. The other 2 came in handy for changing the stabilizer cylinder mounts, later.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Kbeitz on August 19, 2017, 05:37:10 AM
I have a 12" metal cutting band saw a plasma cutter and a large chop saw.
But as I get older I find myself cutting more and more steel with my Dewalt
angle grinder with a 6" cut off wheel. This year I used 100 cutoff wheels already.
It just seems faster and easier .
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 19, 2017, 05:41:47 AM
Those cut-off wheels produce dust. I screwed up my respiratory system some years ago and can't deal very well with abrasive type dust. Plasma and bandsaw are my weapons of choice now.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: rjwoelk on August 19, 2017, 10:55:08 AM
Quote from: grouch on August 18, 2017, 06:59:01 PM
Quote from: rjwoelk on August 18, 2017, 10:28:56 AM
Grouch I love reading your stuff,  :D Good way to start the day.
Have to look you up some time in my trucking travels.

Thanks! If you're passing by Mammoth Cave, you're close enough to detour to here for rest and a cup of coffee. Last long truck that tried to get here had to back up for a couple of miles to turn around, though.  :D


well you know the song "Give me 40 acres and I'll turn this rig around."   Had to back up half a mile once that little wooden bridge just looked good engough to cross with a horse and buggy.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Don_Papenburg on August 21, 2017, 12:21:27 AM
You might want to try anular bits for mag drills . They fit the 3/4" collet and make real nice one pass holes . Great for old worn Bridgeport like I have.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 21, 2017, 04:35:39 AM
Quote from: Don_Papenburg on August 21, 2017, 12:21:27 AM
You might want to try anular bits for mag drills . They fit the 3/4" collet and make real nice one pass holes . Great for old worn Bridgeport like I have.

Thanks, I'll look into that. I think 3/4" is the largest useable collet I have.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 21, 2017, 04:43:15 AM
Boom holes.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130602323.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503304433)
Adding a little thickness to the end of the boom that will carry the dipper.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130602324.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503304432)
Those are not pits in the weld bead; for some reason I took this picture before knocking the slag off.  ::)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130619468.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503304436)
Adding 2 inch OD DOM tubing for the mid-boom pivots.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130619469.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503304437)
The end of the boom all welded up. That's all 6011.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130620479.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503304439)
If I let go, the pin falls out. Welding warpage defeated!

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130620480.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503304439)
Same for the other pin. You can see the inside of the DOM tubes on the left. It took just a light pass with a brake cylinder hone in the upper one in the photo to let the pins fall through easily.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 21, 2017, 04:50:03 AM
Boom stuff.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130620481.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503305049)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130620482.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503305049)
Ok, I was shocked at how these things stayed aligned with all that welding and that's the only reason for the last 2 photos.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130620484.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503305051)
Boom and dipper cylinders in place.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130620486.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503305052)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130620487.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503305053)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130620490.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503305053)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 22, 2017, 07:21:28 AM
Cutting flat from angle.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130621494.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503400414)
Needed some 1/2 inch flat bars but only had angle. The table that came with the bandsaw was a little flimsy square of sheet metal. I replaced that with a heftier chunk, but it was too small for this cut.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130621495.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503400414)
The fillet was milled flat before bringing this to the bandsaw. Washers were used to keep the kerf from closing on the blade.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130621498.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503400416)
That took longer than torch or plasma, but I needed to minimize waste.
The 1 inch thick piece is there just to make it easier to slide the angle across the table.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130621499.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503400416)
Good enough for my use.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 22, 2017, 07:34:37 AM
Dipper drilling.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130629655.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503400947)
This setup is the envy of all machine shops everywhere.
The random pieces of sheet metal propped up on the left are left over from previous weld operations -- they keep pets from watching the arc.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130629656.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503400947)
This is the bucket end of the dipper and needs two holes for pivots.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130629658.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503400949)
The bucket will pivot here. 2 inch O.D. DOM tubing with 3/8 inch wall and a bored 1-1/4 inch I.D.
That's a 2 inch hole saw and that particular brand was consistent and durable throughout this project. (I have no association with that manufacturer).

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130629659.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503400951)
Center punched for the bucket linkage pivot.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130629661.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503400951)
The idea is to have the 2 inch DOM barely clear the inside of the rectangular tubing.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130629662.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503400952)
The cobbled together drill guide worked well for this.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130629669.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503400955)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130629673.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503400955)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130629674.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503400956)
Didn't trust that guide more than measuring and marking, so the holes got drilled from each side.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Magicman on August 22, 2017, 09:15:32 AM
Don't knock dat Blue Cup over because from thence comes your strength.   :D

Your project continues to be fascinating and looks good.   smiley_thumbsup
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 22, 2017, 10:44:04 AM
Oh, man, that cup does show up in a lot of pictures! Kinda tells on me. :)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 22, 2017, 12:26:44 PM
Dipper DOMs.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130630675.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503418878)
They fit the holes at least.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130630676.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503418877)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130630678.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503418881)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130630679.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503418880)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130630680.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503418882)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130630681.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503418882)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-130630682.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503418883)

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 23, 2017, 04:47:06 AM
Revise and extend the first parts.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140419212.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503476720)
With the main frame of the backhoe about done, it was time to make a place to put it. I didn't know how I was going to mount it, way back when I built the subframe rails, so those rails were unfinished at the rear. It was time to clean 'em up and add some stuff.
To the left in the photo, the ear muffs are laying on what will be the lower half of the backhoe mount for one subframe rail. It's cut from 1/2 inch thick 4 x 8 angle.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140419215.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503476720)
Sometimes you can't avoid a grinder.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140423216.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503476722)
1/2 inch 4 x 8 angle welded to the rail.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140423217.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503476723)
Closer look at this first pass.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140509327.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503476724)
This has nothing to do with the subframe; it's one of the dogbone pieces of the bucket linkage. It is chronologically in order even if it's not logically in order. That's the way I work sometimes. :)

That's a rotary index table I bought from Grizzly, with a custom made milled, drilled and tapped disc brake rotor mounted on top of it. The dogbone is clamped to the rotor.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140524605.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503476725)\
This is a revision of the front loader posts (a.k.a., towers). After using the loader for digging, I discovered that it was damaging the holes that were factory-threaded in the side of the bell housing. I had built boxes on the sides of the posts almost halfway up, and these were bolted to the bell housing.

My solution was to cut off those boxes and brace the posts to the subframe.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140524606.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503476727)
I used the come-along to preload the post, leaning it forward as far as the 1/2-13 gr 8 bolts in the base would allow. That determined where to put the mounts for that 1/4 inch wall 2 x 2 square tubing brace.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140525622.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503476727)
Paint ground off for welding the brace mount bracket.

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 23, 2017, 04:59:20 AM
Continued revising and extending the first parts.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140527633.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503478169)
More welding of the mount.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140527634.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503478169)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140527639.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503478173)
Wrapping around the corner.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140527640.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503478173)
It's probable that I didn't need to fill all that space to tie the two pieces of 1/2 x 4 x 8 angle together, but I don't know any better.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140527652.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503478175)
I thought I would need to add a PTO powered hydraulic pump and therefore would need a reservoir. The subframe seemed like a good one. This turned out to not be needed, but the hole and bung will be a good inspection hole.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140527669.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503478175)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140605721.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503478178)
Some short pieces of pipe make the holes for the through bolts leak-proof.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140605723.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503478179)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140605725.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503478179)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140605728.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503478181)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140605777.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503478181)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140606784.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503478183)
And repeat for the other hole.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 24, 2017, 04:27:13 AM
Blasting.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140615964.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503562836)
(Has the earth tilted?)
The subframe rails are awkward (a.k.a., PITA) to take off and put on, so this thing gets sandblasted and painted before going back on the tractor. The media used is that black stuff made from coal slag. The hanging curtain is neoprene rubber.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140615965.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503562835)
Fancy adjustable height hanger system.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140615966.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503562837)
That's bare metal, not primer.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140615967.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503562837)
It starts out as an 80 grit media and gets into all the little spaces, including your personal spaces.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140615968.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503562839)
Top of the blasting booth, showing grommets, S-hooks and the 1/2 inch EMT (electrical metallic tubing) loop that the curtain hangs from.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 24, 2017, 04:36:43 AM
Priming.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140616971.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503563287)
Bare, blasted part hanging from ladders.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140616972.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503563287)
Note the extreme measures taken to keep dust, bugs and other contaminants from getting into the paint. The exhaust fan was used to try to make sure the weeds got more paint than me.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140616973.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503563290)
Those bolts are screwed in until they are flush on the other side, in order to keep paint out of the threads in the hole.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140616975.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503563292)
Fins like a '58 DeSoto.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140616976.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503563292)
This is the socket into which will fit the backhoe main frame rail.
Primer is a two part epoxy: EPX-900 with EPX-901 catalyst.
All painting was done while wearing a forced fresh air hood.

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 24, 2017, 04:55:48 AM
Base coat.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140617979.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503564023)
Conditions have to be right for painting. The epoxy primer has a 3 day window for top coating, after which, you have to sand the tough stuff.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140617980.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503564024)
Not quite a clean room, eh? This is the aftermath of the base coat spray.
Foreground left - the portable air tank is just a portable shelf. Foreground right - the fresh air hood which receives air pumped from 50 feet away with a HEPA filter on the intake. The isocyanates in modern paint are not to be taken lightly, as they can crawl up exposed hair -- beard, etc. -- to get to your organs. Not shown are the tyvek painter's suit with booties and nitrile gloves. No skin was exposed while painting.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140617981.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503564026)
It's red.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140617982.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503564028)
Weld spatters need paint protection, too.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140617984.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503564028)
This paint came with fewer bugs per quart than some others.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140617987.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503564031)
The hanging part heeded the warning label (right) on the ladder and did not fall during painting.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140617990.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503564032)
The famous HF "purple gun" -- one of the jewels to be found amongst the junk. That thinner to the left is an aggressive cleaner; if it won't clean it, you need a new one. Fresh air from elsewhere is needed during use.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140617992.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503564033)
The formula for the Shopline paint used.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 24, 2017, 05:03:29 AM
Clear coat.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140617993.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503565040)
Same setup as before.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140617994.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503565040)
Clear coat is PPG's cheap Shopline brand.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140617995.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503565042)
Runs and drips are decorative.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140617996.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503565042)
Lots of decorations here.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140617997.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503565044)
Slick is not needed.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140617999.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503565044)
There's that bug again.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140618004.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503565047)
I may have been a bit off in my paint matching.
(The red paint was left over from some years before).

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140618005.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503565047)
Barely fits.

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Peter Drouin on August 24, 2017, 06:19:16 AM
Man, that's a lot of work! Do you have an idea how many hrs you have in it all so far?
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 24, 2017, 07:32:27 AM
Quote from: Peter Drouin on August 24, 2017, 06:19:16 AM
Man, that's a lot of work! Do you have an idea how many hrs you have in it all so far?

Not a clue. :)
It's spread out over such a long period of time with so many other things constantly pushing it off the front burner, that I don't think there's any way to calculate the time involved.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 25, 2017, 04:40:57 AM
2nd subframe rail.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140618006.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503649523)
The second subframe rail gets the same treatment as the first.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140618007.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503649522)
Chain and come-along used to avoid mashing fingers.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140623191.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503649526)
That particular grinder is no longer made by Skil. It wore out its own brushes, the brushes from a few dead portable drills, the brushes (including the spare sets) from a couple of very cheap HF grinders and is currently running on brushes from another dead HF grinder. The thing won't die. It's gone through tens of grinder disks (I bought them in 10-packs throughout the project). Skil sells junk that is identical to the lowest rated HF grinders, now.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140707304.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503649526)
Pipes for the holes that go through the frame rail.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140707305.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503649527)
Mounting bracket for the 45 degree brace.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140707306.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503649528)
Matching bracket on the post.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140707307.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503649529)
The fin at the rear -- it's the lower portion of the backhoe rail receiver.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140707308.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503649531)
A 45 degree brace where the rail turns to attach to the front of the tractor. This one had to be mostly cut away, later, to provide clearance for replacing the starter.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140720334.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503649532)
Using a splitting wedge to try to unwarp after welding.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140720335.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503649533)
That band of discoloration comes from the weld on the other side of that 1/2 inch x 4 x 8 and from heating with a torch to unwarp it.

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 25, 2017, 04:48:26 AM
Hydraulic control valves.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140724351.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503650542)
The single most expensive part in the project -- a new hydraulic stack valve made by Prince, from Surplus Center. It'll outlast me.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140724352.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503650543)
Comes as 6 individual control valves and you assemble the sections.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140724354.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503650543)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140724355.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503650546)
Ports plugged to keep dust and stuff out; no place to mount it yet.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140724356.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503650545)

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 25, 2017, 05:00:38 AM
More subframe mods.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140724357.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503651021)
The bunch of stringer beads on that fin corrected the warpage. Also, I think it may be the latest fashion craze of 1959.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140724358.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503651020)
Weld-in bung.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140724359.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503651024)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140724360.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503651023)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140724362.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503651025)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140728410.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503651025)
Post and brace.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140728412.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503651028)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140728418.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503651027)
That is ugly.


Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Kbeitz on August 25, 2017, 07:03:45 AM
I use around 100 cut-off wheels every summer. I buy the 6" ones.
They last so much longer than the 4-1/4" ones. I use the bigger
Dewalt DCG414B grinders. I keep four lined up on the work bench.
One with a cut-off wheel and one with a wire brush and one with
a grind-stone and the last one with a sanding flap wheel.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 25, 2017, 07:28:03 AM
I try to avoid grinding when I can. The 4-1/2 inch grinder gets into tight spaces (which is not always a good thing). I bought a DeWalt DW402 4-1/2 inch grinder last year when I thought the old Skil had given up the ghost. Been 'burned' a few times with their tools, so I was skeptical of the good reviews of that model. It appears to be well made and is holding up, so far.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Kbeitz on August 25, 2017, 02:25:01 PM
I've had different makes but I keep coming back to DeWalt.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Crusarius on August 25, 2017, 08:26:27 PM
My dewalt grinders have been great. I love them. I really like the 11000 RPM. except with cheap wire brushes.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 26, 2017, 08:05:13 AM
More blasting.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140730426.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503738653)
Makeshift sandblasting booth. Suction / gravity feed blaster media container hanging from a stepladder didn't work well at all. Neoprene rubber curtain did a fair job of directing the 80 grit media (black coal slag stuff) into the plastic garbage can for reuse, but restricts access to the parts and sends lots of blasting media at the operator.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140730427.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503738654)
Wider view of the setup.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140730429.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503738656)
Not done yet.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140730432.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503738656)
View of the transformation in progress.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140802446.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503738659)
Wore out blue plastic tarp for shade makes an eery light.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140802450.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503738659)
Fresh air hood and spot blaster gun shown in the lower left of the photo, in the plastic garbage can holding the media.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140802452.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503738661)
Nozzle getting blasted away.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140802453.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503738661)
Hard to see through that. Tear-offs got blasted off, so out came the Duck tape. This protective plastic covering the face shield is past time for changing.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140802454.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503738663)
Stuff goes everywhere.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140802456.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503738664)
The trouble light has trouble. That cover used to be clear.

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 26, 2017, 08:14:41 AM
More painting.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140803459.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503749183)
Lower right is the fresh air hood with the hose still attached and a new clear plastic tear-off taped over the shield.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140803461.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503749182)
Epoxy primer.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140803464.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503749186)
That piece with all the holes in it, near center of the photo, started out as a disk brake pad. Steel is where you salvage it.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140804468.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503749186)
Had to have some shade to do the base coat / clear coat.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140804470.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503749189)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140804474.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503749189)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140804475.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503749190)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140804479.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503749191)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140804481.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503749192)
Another brake pad backing plate put to use.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140804483.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503749194)
It only looks blood-splattered.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140804484.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503749195)
The aftermath.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 26, 2017, 08:18:53 AM
Mounting.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140809689.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503749740)
The rear axle had a casting flash that had to be ground off.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140809693.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503749740)
Custom washer for those pockets on the rear axle.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140810703.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503749742)
Mounted.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140810704.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503749742)
Might be hard to tell in this picture, but both red rails are mounted on the tractor.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: rjwoelk on August 26, 2017, 09:15:14 AM
That is a very nice Red paint color, I like it.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Ljohnsaw on August 26, 2017, 11:00:11 AM
I can't wait to see it all together - still having trouble wrapping my mind around all the pieces.  I find it amazing that the ladders aren't all yellow and red!  I brush on my lowly silver Rustoleum on my projects and I still get that all over. :D  It looks like the parts are pretty close to the ladders and yet I only see a little bit of red over spray.  How is that possible?  Also, did the red cover the yellow primer in one coat?  Or was it two or three coats?
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 26, 2017, 12:27:13 PM
Quote from: rjwoelk on August 26, 2017, 09:15:14 AM
That is a very nice Red paint color, I like it.

Somewhere maybe a page back there is a photo of the mix for that color. It's Shopline by PPG so just about any auto paint supplier can duplicate it with that label.

Quote from: ljohnsaw on August 26, 2017, 11:00:11 AM
I can't wait to see it all together - still having trouble wrapping my mind around all the pieces.  I find it amazing that the ladders aren't all yellow and red!  I brush on my lowly silver Rustoleum on my projects and I still get that all over. :D  It looks like the parts are pretty close to the ladders and yet I only see a little bit of red over spray.  How is that possible?  Also, did the red cover the yellow primer in one coat?  Or was it two or three coats?

That HVLP (high volume, low pressure) gun changed the amount of paint I spray on the landscape. Most of the paint actually ends up where it should, now. With my old Binks gun, I painted everything within spitting distance of what I aimed at. I bought 2 gallons of that red paint to paint a VW Fox based on how much I usually waste on the surroundings. There was a gallon and a half left over after painting that car in spite of my excess overspray and excess coating.

That's one coat of base coat, if I remember correctly. It hides well. The clear coat is also Shopline and I tend to pile it on. Thick coatings are more likely to chip and peel off so my excesses will eventually catch up to me. Don't figure on winning any beauty contests with this tractor anyway.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 27, 2017, 07:21:10 AM
Main frame mount.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140901811.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503832072)
Slicing the main frame of the backhoe. It's not that it was too pretty, it just needed to taper so it would be easier to hook up. First cut is a bit raggedy.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140901812.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503832071)
2nd cut is a little better.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140901813.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503832074)
Now we're getting somewhere.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140901814.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503832074)
That's about as good as I can do with a plasma cutter and much better than I can with oxy-acetylene.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140901815.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503832078)
This is the jig I made for cutting those tapers in the corners of the frame.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140901818.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503832078)
The jig in place and ready for the cut to be made.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140901819.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503832080)
That edge just needs a little slag knocked off on the inside and it's ready to weld.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140901820.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503832080)
Another view of the cut.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140901822.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503832081)
Squeezing it back together.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140901824.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503832083)
Have to alternate tightening the clamps to get all 4 sides to bend in evenly.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140901825.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503832083)
Raggedy cuts need extra attention.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140904831.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503832084)
Eventually, they're all convinced to come together and get welded.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 27, 2017, 07:29:13 AM
Finishing main frame rails.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140904832.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503832935)
The newly tapered rails marked and cut to finish length.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140907835.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503832935)
That's a bumper. I expected to back the tractor up to the backhoe and nudge it into the big sockets (those fins shown earlier) and didn't expect that to always be a gentle operation. The bumper is a chunk of 1 inch thick steel with 1/2 inch sticking out.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140907836.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503832936)
Bumper for the other side.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140907837.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503832937)
Welded in.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140907838.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503832938)
Likewise.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 27, 2017, 07:47:03 AM
Mount pins.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140910846.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503833458)
That sandblasted trouble light still provided light.
The receiver part of the mount, on the tractor subframe, was marked and 1/4 inch pilot holes drilled. The backhoe main frame was then slid into place and adjusted for level, etc., in preparation for drilling for 1 inch diameter pins.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140910847.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503833457)
In the lower right, you can see the drill guide I made from some scrap steel, still on the portable drill used to make the pilot holes.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140910849.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503833461)
Overview of the mess. The ratcheting load binder was used to pull the frame in tight to the tractor and to level the frame.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140916853.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503833461)
This is the conglomerated drilling apparatus that was necessary to make the final holes for the pins. The drill body needed to clear the final drive housings of the tractor and the pilot bit had to be long enough to go all the way through the frame and receiver.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140916854.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503833462)
Closer view. Starting at the drill -- a hex nut driver extension, hex to square drive adapter, deep-well socket to fit the hex end of the hole saw, 1 inch hole saw, 1/4 inch x 12 inch pilot bit (bottomed out in the deep-well socket). Shakey looking, but it got the job done.
Upper pin is in place and lower hole was just drilled. It's an off-the-shelf 1 inch hitch pin.

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Ox on August 27, 2017, 10:14:59 AM
It's good that you've seen for yourself the beautiful thing called a plasma cutter.  I still remember the first time cutting with one years ago using a straight edge and being amazed at the smooth and ready to weld cut.

I'm loving all the pics and the different ways you've solved problems.  Thanks for taking the time!
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Ljohnsaw on August 27, 2017, 11:30:57 AM
Grouch,
Do you get freezing weather there?  You've done some amazing work and I hate to see it get ruined.  If you have any sealed up tubes, be sure to have a drain/weep hole at the lowest point.  I learned that lesson the hard way.  Ice is a mighty powerful force.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 27, 2017, 02:08:04 PM
ljohnsaw,
That's a legitimate concern here. One of my salvage 4 inch square tubes probably became salvage due to freezing. It's an irregular octagon at one end, with splits.

My main rails and the stabilizer legs are open at each end. The subframe rails are horizontal, so it would take a lot of freezing condensation to damage them. The boom and dipper are both welded closed. If they are air tight, then no more moisture can get in. If there's a pinhole, then that's enough for air exchange and therefore a build-up in condensation. The dogbone part of the bucket linkage is also effectively a closed steel box. It has a grease fitting, but that was drilled into the DOM forming the hinge so it wouldn't let water out of the box section.

I need to add some weep holes.

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 28, 2017, 08:57:15 AM
Quote from: Ox on August 27, 2017, 10:14:59 AM
It's good that you've seen for yourself the beautiful thing called a plasma cutter.  I still remember the first time cutting with one years ago using a straight edge and being amazed at the smooth and ready to weld cut.

I'm loving all the pics and the different ways you've solved problems.  Thanks for taking the time!

I wish I had made the leap to plasma years before. It changes the way I look at cutting steel. My oxy-acetylene torch collected cobwebs after getting the plasma cutter and I realized it wasn't worth continuing to lease tanks for it. It's retired now.

[edit to add:]

Re: the pictures. You may regret those words! :) (I didn't realize how many pictures I took until sorting through them. More have been left out than shown).

One of the things that bugged me while I was researching and reading threads on homemade backhoes was seeing a picture of a bunch of pieces of raw steel followed by a picture of a completed subassembly. As my high school chemistry teacher liked to say, "I'm more interested in how you got there than what you got. Show me what you did and I'll tell you the outcome."
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 28, 2017, 10:07:30 AM
Just swinging.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140926880.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503927363)
Sometimes I go to extreme measures to avoid grinding.
The piece in the milling machine vise is one of the brackets for the stationary end of a swing cylinder. It's 1 inch thick and being prepped for welding.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140926883.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503927364)
Dial indicator used to make sure the cut is repeatable.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140926885.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503927368)
Starting to work on the 2nd bracket.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140928890.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503927370)
Welding to a 3/8 inch thick piece.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140928891.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503927371)
I can't explain why I took some pictures before knocking off the welding slag.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140929894.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503927373)
The rectangular aluminum extrusions from storm door frames make handy jigs to hold things in alignment for welding. They're easy to mark for precise cuts and bores and easy to fit on the drill press, saw, and milling machine.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140929899.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503927372)
The other end of the jig shown above. The swing cylinders operate as a pair and need to have their stationary ends the same distance from the hinge pin of the boom base. This jig helps make that happen.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140929900.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503927374)
Again with the slag. :(
The 3/8 inch pieces span the two 1/4 x 2 x 2 steel tubes at the forward end (nearest the tractor) of the backhoe main frame.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140929901.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503927376)
1/8 inch 6011 rod at 85A DCEP (direct current, electrode positive, in case I failed to expand that acronym before. Never can tell when acronyms might get dumped for new ones).

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140929904.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503927378)
Ok, finally the slag is gone.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140929911.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503927378)
And it's baaack! 1/8 inch 7018 at 115A DCEP. With slag.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140929915.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503927380)
View of the working side.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140929919.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503927380)
Back side *without* the slag.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140929925.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503927384)
Funny, I don't remember any grenade going off in my garage.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-140929926.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1503927384)
Test fit of one swing cylinder.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 29, 2017, 09:05:57 AM
Stabilizer mount brackets.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141010944.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504011251)
Lining up with the center punched mark for boring.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141010945.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504011251)
First bore a small hole.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141010947.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504011254)
Mill it bigger.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141010950.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504011254)
Final cut. That cutter is the best I have in my stash for making a 1 inch diameter hole.
This procedure of boring holes in progressive steps was repeated many times in this project. Having the capability to go directly to the final size would speed things up a lot.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141012955.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504011256)
Would've been nice to do this in 4 steps x 2 brackets instead of 12 x 2.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141012959.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504011257)
2 brackets, 1st saw cut made.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141013960.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504011258)
2nd saw cut. Each bracket is 1/2 inch thick. The table for the bandsaw started out the same thickness. Not sure what it ended up being as I just milled until it was flat and no significant rust pits left. Much better than the stamped sheetmetal table that came with the saw.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141013962.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504011258)
Rounding the ends.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 29, 2017, 09:19:15 AM
Stabilizers.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141015963.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504012051)
Sometimes you change the job to suit the tool; sometimes you change the tool to suit the job.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141015965.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504012051)
Had to grind a bit of that casting to be able to cut the stabilizer leg at the angle needed. That slotted head screw sticking out is supposed to hold a flimsy little guard. (The sliver of wedge-shaped steel sticking out on the right in the photo was needed to correct misalignment of the blade guide in that Clarke bandsaw).

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141015966.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504012056)
The other end of the cut. That's a 1/4 inch wall 3 x 3 square tube being cut for a stabilizer leg.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141016967.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504012056)
Needed more 1/2 inch thick flatbar, all I had was 1/2 x 4 x 8 angle, so... plasma cutter and straight edge.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141025987.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504012059)
One pair of brackets welded to the main frame on the left, 2nd pair being fitted on the right. One stabilizer leg propped against the one on the right.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141025988.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504012059)
Closer view of the left mounting bracket.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141025990.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504012061)
Right bracket. The 1 inch thick piece in the middle was milled to width to hold the brackets parallel and the correct spacing for welding. The stabilizer leg is there to push the assembly against the main frame.

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Ox on August 29, 2017, 09:27:04 AM
I want to warn you about your Clark metal cutting bandsaw.  I have its twin in my shop.  I've had it for pushing 10 years or so now.  I remember twice checking the oil level in the gearbox.  10 or so bolts and a rubber gasket and the cover just pops off.  It's a worm gear drive in there.  The first time I checked the oil was low so I filled up with gear oil.  Second time I checked it was empty.  I knew it was leaking a bit but I didn't know it was that bad.  Anyway I filled it up with good red grease like we used to do the the rakes and tedders gearboxes on the farm when they wouldn't hold oil anymore.  No more troubles.  I'd hate to see you throw away a hundred dollar bill on something stupid like missing oil!

The oil leak I had seemed to me like an oil seep and I expected to see at least a little oil in there.  It was bone dry.  Not good.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 29, 2017, 09:28:00 AM
Stabilizers, continued.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141027992.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504012062)
Boxing in the stabilizer mount brackets with 1/4 inch thick flat bar.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141027994.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504012063)
3/8 inch thick flat bar tacked inside the bracket.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141027001.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504012062)
Bracing the brackets with 1/4 inch flat bar.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141029003.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504012065)
Left bracket boxed.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141029004.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504012065)
Right bracket boxed.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141029006.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504012067)
Stabilizer leg closed at the top with 1/4 inch thick flat bar.
And then ground off because of bad welding.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141029008.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504012067)
That's better.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 29, 2017, 09:31:04 AM
Quote from: Ox on August 29, 2017, 09:27:04 AM
I want to warn you about your Clark metal cutting bandsaw.  I have its twin in my shop.  I've had it for pushing 10 years or so now.  I remember twice checking the oil level in the gearbox.  10 or so bolts and a rubber gasket and the cover just pops off.  It's a worm gear drive in there.  The first time I checked the oil was low so I filled up with gear oil.  Second time I checked it was empty.  I knew it was leaking a bit but I didn't know it was that bad.  Anyway I filled it up with good red grease like we used to do the the rakes and tedders gearboxes on the farm when they wouldn't hold oil anymore.  No more troubles.  I'd hate to see you throw away a hundred dollar bill on something stupid like missing oil!

The oil leak I had seemed to me like an oil seep and I expected to see at least a little oil in there.  It was bone dry.  Not good.

Too late -- I already killed it. It wasn't the gear oil for me, though. It was the stupid plain sleeve bearing for the idler wheel. The thing eventually just wallowed out and wobbled to where the blade started eating the guard and falling off.

I have a HF bandsaw now, which has sealed ball bearings, but doesn't have that handy stop for 90 degrees on the fence like the Clarke. I _will_ be adding that.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Ox on August 29, 2017, 09:45:15 AM
OK, I remember reading about that earlier.  I've been fortunate with that part so far.... I always keep gear oil in an old pump can to squirt the guide bearings and I always get a little on the idler wheel.  I guess I'm getting enough in there cause all is well so far!  I've cut.....A LOT...... of steel with that little thing and can't believe it still works.

If you had to buy another one, would you buy the HF again?  It's hard to find anything on the low end that's worth much.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Crusarius on August 29, 2017, 09:56:08 AM
I have had my HF one for over 10 years now. only thing I have replaced is blades. best $180 I spent from them. it is my goto tool for cutting steel. I use it more than my plasma cutter.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 29, 2017, 09:59:18 AM
I'd go with the HF because (a) the bearings are replaceable and readily available; (b) it does a good job after alignment and if you take it slow; and (c) the price hasn't creeped up beyond 'good value' yet.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Ox on August 29, 2017, 10:02:51 AM
Cool.  Thanks guys.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Ljohnsaw on August 29, 2017, 10:09:38 AM
I have an old (bought old) Jet clone bandsaw.  Was working pretty good until the top wheel started to wear out the flange.  I used it to cut steel for my sawmill (lots of cuts), a couple of trailers and trailer mods and assorted other projects.  I think I got my $75 out of it.  There is an extreme angle (camfer?) tilting the wheel back to keep the blade on the wheel.  That caused the back of the blade to wear out the flange.  I noticed it because the set was being taken out of the blades (teeth riding on the wheel).  So I chucked it up in my lathe, cut a slightly smaller diameter wheel with a new flange.  That worked for a while but now the flange has failed and the blade goes off the back side.

So time for a new bandsaw - maybe I'll give the HF unit a try the next time they have a 25% off coupon! (unless I can find a trashed unit that I can salvage a wheel from)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Ox on August 29, 2017, 10:16:36 AM
It's hard being frugal, ain't it?  Sometimes I've been told I squeak when I walk...
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 29, 2017, 10:32:21 AM
I haven't completely given up on the Clarke yet. If I can figure out how, I intend to put the same bearings in its idler wheel as in the HF. Don't know what I'll do with 2 metal cutting bandsaws but I DanG sure ain't throwin' it away.

Squeak squeak. :)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Ox on August 29, 2017, 10:43:16 AM
squeak  :D

Set em up side by side and you can cut twice as fast!  Actually, I'd have one set up for long stuff and another for the shorter stuff.  Clearance is everything on those things.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 29, 2017, 10:49:43 AM
Hey! One set up horizontal and one vertical -- keep the table on one all the time to save that switchover time. (Lazy and frugal).


Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Ox on August 29, 2017, 10:54:56 AM
That's a better idea.  You win.  :laugh:
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Crusarius on August 29, 2017, 12:16:44 PM
Quote from: grouch on August 29, 2017, 10:49:43 AM
Hey! One set up horizontal and one vertical -- keep the table on one all the time to save that switchover time. (Lazy and frugal).

I agree wit this. I got sick of constantly switching back and forth.


Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 29, 2017, 12:22:10 PM
Now I just need somebody to tell me how to fix those bearings.  ;D
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Crusarius on August 29, 2017, 12:23:19 PM
duh, you use a hammer. :)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 30, 2017, 10:59:48 AM
Stabilize some more.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141106047.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504104214)
Adding 1/2 inch thick brackets to the upper end of the stabilizer leg. The holes are 1 inch diameter.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141106048.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504104215)
1/4 inch thick flatbar between the brackets.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141106049.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504104218)
The other end of the leg. Note the milled chunk of 1 inch thick steel used to hold the bottom of the pin the correct distance above the leg.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141106050.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504104219)
Weld 'em up.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141106051.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504104221)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141110070.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504104221)
Part of an aluminum storm door used as a jig to get the spacing of pins correct and consistent.
Note the piece of milled angle near the upright bracket at this end. Handiest tool I made for laying out the parts. It's just a piece of 3/8 inch thick x 4 x 4 angle, milled as flat and square as I could get it. Made it much easier to square up lines and parts on square and rectangular tubing, which has rounded corners.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141110071.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504104223)
There's the 1 inch thick jig for pin height again.
The end of that 3/8 inch angle squaring tool is also visible.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141110072.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504104223)
The upper end of the stabilizer leg. The pin is too long, but it's the right diameter.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141110074.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504104226)
Test fit, left leg.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141110075.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504104226)
Clearance ok. Whew!

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141110076.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504104228)
Same clearance, other end.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 30, 2017, 11:13:25 AM
Stabilizer, other.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141111080.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504105243)
Some adjustment for spacing.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141111081.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504105243)
Welding warps things. Sometimes you have to unwarp them.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141111082.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504105246)
Same jigs, different leg.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141111083.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504105246)
Aluminum extrusion jig for pin spacing, 3/8 angle square for making the uprights upright, 1 inch jig for pin height -- same as for the left leg.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141111084.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504105248)
A better view of the 3/8 angle square. Note the tiny hole in the corner on the right. That allowed me to mark dead center along those radiused edges of square and rectangular tubing.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141111085.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504105249)
The angle square could be used directly, as in this photo, or with a combination square, try square, or framing square to lay out lines.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141111086.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504105250)
One more look.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141111087.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504105251)
Welding all over the place.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141111088.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504105252)
Boxed. Probably weakened it some with those welds straight across the brackets, but it should still be strong enough. Rigidity counts more, here.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-141111089.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504105253)
All filled.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 31, 2017, 11:18:39 AM
Stabilizer pads.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150330892.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504192059)
Baby needs shoes, so slice up some more 1/2 inch stuff.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150410948.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504192059)
Bored for 1 inch pins and centered on shoes. Centering helps make sure the pads will stay relatively level as the stabilizer descends. After contacting the ground, it can work out its own compromise with the surface.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150410949.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504192062)
Welded in place.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150410951.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504192062)
And of course it's a drooling weld bead.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150410952.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504192065)
C-channel would've been nice to use for these feet, but I didn't have any on hand that was wide enough. The stabilizer legs are 1/4 x 3 x 3 inches, so these needed to be a fidget over 4 inches wide. (Smidgen, fuzz, fidget and flop are the same universal measurements in metric and imperial. Related to Kentucky windage).

Some unequal length angle with a strip of plate welded to the long leg made a suitable facsimile of c-channel.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on August 31, 2017, 11:32:42 AM
Dipper -- bucket cylinder base.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150509257.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504192786)
Jigs don't have to be fancy. These pieces of plywood just needed to hold the pins the right distance apart.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150509258.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504192786)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150509259.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504192789)
The bottom of the pin needed to be 5-1/8 inches above the dipper stick. I used a pair of 1-2-3 blocks and a piece of steel that's precisely 1/8 inch thick (one of a set of thin parallels for a milling machine) to get the spacing.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150509260.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504192790)
Better view of that setup.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150509261.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504192791)
Working alone, you call on whatever you can to lend a hand. The chain (just draped) keeps the plywood from flopping and coming off the pins while I work at the other end.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150510262.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504192791)
Brackets welded to the dipper, DOM welded to the brackets, and a spacer of 1/4 inch thick steel welded between the brackets.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150510263.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504192793)
Chip the slag off before you grab the camera, DanG it! 1/8 inch 7018 at 115A DCEP.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150510264.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504192794)
The 1/4 inch thick spacer is just tacked at the corners.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150510265.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504192794)
Ready for boxing.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 01, 2017, 11:55:51 AM
Controls.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150722761.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504280285)
Time to hang the control valves in space.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150722762.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504280285)
That's 1/4 inch chain acting a bit like a spiderweb.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150722764.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504280288)
Just for looks, the valve body is level left to right and front to back. It would function the same if it was tilted.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150722765.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504280289)
Extra chain is used to hold the whole thing centered, relative to the boom, and back away from the seat.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150722766.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504280291)
The 1/4 x 2 inch square tube has brackets for the 3 bolts holding it to the stack valves. That bolt through the chain allows forcing the whole assembly to stay where I want it in mid-air.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150725774.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504280291)
Cutting pieces to go on the ends of the square tube shown previously.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150725775.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504280293)
Once the position is decided, wood makes for a better temporary platform than that chain.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150726777.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504280293)
Needed to revise that piece the stack valve was mounted to. Bandsaws don't like the rounded top of a weld bead so it got milled off.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150726778.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504280295)
The cut still wavered a little at the start, but not too badly.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150726779.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504280295)
One of the 45'd pieces on.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150726780.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504280298)
This is what happens when you leave off the "Inert Gas" part of MIG. Those dastardly garage gnomes will sneak in and turn the gas off as soon as you turn your back.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150726781.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504280298)
Other end tacked on.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: gasman1075 on September 01, 2017, 12:26:11 PM
I am impressed with your welding and fabrication skills. I am just looking to learn how to weld and was most of this done with a MIG welder? A friend in Poughkeepsie NY is going to show me the basics on his Miller mig and then let me borrow it till I can figure out what I need / want and can afford. I would mainly be working with 3/16 or below steel and have only 110V available at this time.

Thanks

Jack
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 01, 2017, 12:56:46 PM
gasman1075,

Thanks for the kind words!

Almost all welding was with a Lincoln 225/125A AC/DC welder -- a "buzzbox". About the only MIG welding I did started with this last group of photos posted, making the mount and pedestal for the controls. This was done with a Harbor Freight "MIG 170", which lists 1/4 inch as the maximum thickness. It is barely capable of that thickness when all conditions are right. [edit to add:] The HF MIG 170 is a 240V machine on a 20A circuit.

You have to really work at getting good welds with a 120V AC MIG. (You'll see 'em listed as "110V" or "115V", but the standard is 120V 60Hz). Voltage drop on an extension cord is enough to reduce its capacity. You can power through some amount of less than ideal prep if you have enough amperage. A 120V MIG doesn't have much cushion for that. MIG can deceive; it can lay down a pretty bead that's not doing much fusing of pieces together. A breeze can disrupt any MIG.

I would not recommend learning to weld with a 120V MIG unless *all* you are going to weld is sheet metal such as auto body panels. A buzz box is tough to use on anything less than 1/8 inch (for me), but it will have more tolerance for lack of prep and skill while you learn.

Weld something together with that 120V MIG, put the piece in a vice and then beat the crap out of it with a good machinist's hammer. Look at where it breaks and see if it's the weld or the material around it that cracked.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: snowstorm on September 01, 2017, 01:45:52 PM
A mig is much easier to learn to weld with. As long as the steel is clean. They dont work well if there is any wind to blow the gas away. With stick it still needs to be clean. With 6011 you can get by without grinding as much but dosent mean you should
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 01, 2017, 02:50:21 PM
snowstorm,

You *really* don't like 6011, do you?  :D

Here's someone who does:
6011 Welding Rods for Fab Job (http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/6011.html)
From that:
Quote
For fabrication jobs like this dolly, I usually choose 6011 stick rod.

And Here is why...

E6011 rods are all position welding rods AND...can weld downhill very well.

Framing jobs like this dolly often have outside corner joints and being able to weld those downhill really speeds things up because the same amperage works for downhill and what you use for flat and horizontal welds.
.....AND 6011 rods will easily penetrated thru rust, mill scale, dross, paint, or pretty much anything.

Now, who is that guy saying good stuff about an ugly rod?
About Me (http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/Jody.html)
Quote
I'm Jody Collier.

I was lucky enough to spend 13 years welding pipe on Nuclear Plants, Coal fire power houses, and paper mills...and after that,  I got to spend the next 21 years as welding instructor for Delta Air Lines Technical Operations.

I even got to spend 5 years working in Delta's Metallurgical Lab.

Even if I had no first-hand trial and error experience with 6011, and had not read literature from AWS, Lincoln and Miller regarding the uses for 6011, I'd be inclined to give some credence to that guy's welding advice. (Giving him the benefit of the doubt as to his claims being true, since I've seen his info routinely recommended on weldingweb).

As to MIG being easier to learn to weld with than arc, I don't know. I've never gotten good enough with either to suit me. MIG is more problematic because of its appearance, in my opinion. I've made some pretty beads that were nothing more than pretty. Still learning.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: snowstorm on September 01, 2017, 03:23:02 PM
No I don't. I started out with it 40 yrs ago. It has its place. With 7018 when everything is rite the slag will lift as it cools hit it once and it looks so nice. Almost as good as a mig
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Kbeitz on September 02, 2017, 12:32:28 AM
Have you tried the 80T rod ?



 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Welding_rods_80T_AC_Plus~1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504326738)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Crusarius on September 02, 2017, 08:56:49 AM
Quote from: gasman1075 on September 01, 2017, 12:26:11 PM
I am impressed with your welding and fabrication skills. I am just looking to learn how to weld and was most of this done with a MIG welder? A friend in Poughkeepsie NY is going to show me the basics on his Miller mig and then let me borrow it till I can figure out what I need / want and can afford. I would mainly be working with 3/16 or below steel and have only 110V available at this time.

Thanks

Jack

Anytime I teach someone to weld we start with the stick. once you learn to weld with a stick mig comes very easy. Where are you located? I be happy to help you learn if you are interested.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Crusarius on September 02, 2017, 09:01:08 AM
My goto rods have always been the 6011 and 7018. But now that I have my Miller 251 the stick barely gets used. I have been threatening  to get it back out and see if I can still weld with it.

Gasman, thats where you come in :)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: sandhills on September 02, 2017, 09:21:57 AM
I have a buzz box and a small mig that'll only go to 140, I like it but use the stick for heavier stuff, the thing I don't like about the mig is "I" can't see around the nozzle in a lot of spots I weld in where as with a stick I can but I do prefer the wire.  6011 is my go to rod, I use 7018 on hard stuff also.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 02, 2017, 12:37:09 PM
I see I'm not alone in my 'go to' rods choice of 6011 and 7018.

Y'all are gonna cringe at the ridiculous looking MIG welds coming up in the next set of photos. I really struggled trying to get decent penetration on 1/4 inch steel with that HF machine set to max. Grinder disk manufacturers love me.

sandhills,
I have that same problem with visibility. That nozzle is a lot fatter than a rod. (That's my excuse and I'm stick-ing to it).
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 02, 2017, 05:14:24 PM
Controls pedestal.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150728782.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504384651)
Takes a lot of stuff to hold things in alignment while cobbling.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150728783.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504384652)
It's a skeleton of wood, clamps and steel. Each piece is there to trap the pedestal legs in the place and angle I want them to stand.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150728784.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504384662)
The pedestal leg -- the thing that will hold the controls at a convenient height -- is the rusty chunk of 1/4 x 2 inch square tubing coming down from upper right in the photo. The piece of wood is there to make that leg flush with the outside of the main frame. The big nut laying on a scrap of 1 inch steel, just below center of the photo, was just right for spacing the leg back from the stabilizer bracket. You use what you got.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150728785.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504384662)
Closer view of the big nut being used as a spacer. That gap gives me a chance to weld in there.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150728786.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504384664)
Front face of the pedestal leg. Mark is the cut line for the compound angle needed at the lower end.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150728787.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504384665)
Rear face. Not much of a cut line.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150728788.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504384668)
Inside face with cut line marked.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150728789.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504384668)
Couldn't cut that compound angle on the HF bandsaw, that's why the hacksaw with the rusty blade is there.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150728790.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504384671)
That extra shiney place along the cut line  is where I tried to use the Sawzall. Back to the hacksaw.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150728791.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504384671)
I cut a little bit on each side, rotating the piece and deepening each cut about the same amount.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150728793.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504384674)
About to break through one corner. As each cut was deepened, it acted as a guide.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150728795.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504384674)
Eventually the job was reduced to connecting the corners.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150728797.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504384676)
The bandsaw did provide a convenient table and clamp for hacksawing.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150728798.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504384677)
It was not as long and tedious as anticipated. Went pretty quick and it cleaned the rust off my hacksaw blade.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150728799.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504384679)
Looks ok to me.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150728801.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504384679)
Doesn't have to fit that rounded edge.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150728802.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504384681)
Good fit on the main frame.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150728804.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504384682)
It's trapped between the 2 pieces of white steel tubing and clamped to the piece of wood. The piece of white tubing it's clamped to makes sure the rearward face of each pedestal leg is in the same plane.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150728805.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504384683)
View of the conglomeration from the rear.

I should explain the black appearance of parts of the boom, dipper, etc. This project did not fit in my garage. Most of the time, it was left out in the weather. I found some black, slimey, "Coastal Moly EP" grease that mostly ignored the extremes of Kentucky weather. Every place I smeared that stuff stayed rust free through season after season. It's worse than anti-seize about getting all over everything, but it was great for keeping all those DOM tubes and weld beads pristine.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: btulloh on September 02, 2017, 05:23:15 PM
I didn't think anything was worse than anti-seize for getting on everything.  I learn something new on here every day.

Nice work.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 02, 2017, 06:55:59 PM
Thanks btulloh.

Trying to wipe that stuff off your hands will smear it further. Even Fast Orange takes a while to get it to let go. It protected those parts through rain storms, 100F temps, sub-freezing temps, wind and snow. I went through one little tub of it through the whole project.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 03, 2017, 05:50:14 PM
Controls pedestal continued.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150728809.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504474288)
This shows how the pedestal leg was marked for cutting. It leans toward the operator and toward the centerline of the tractor, so a compound angle needs to be cut at the base to make it flat against the main frame of the backhoe.
The clamp shown holds a piece of scrap flat bar against the side of the main frame and the pedestal leg is pushed against it. An old utility knife blade laying on another piece of scrap steel is slid along to scratch a line in the leg.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150728810.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504474288)
The cutting procedure was shown previously.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150728811.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504474293)
Back in place; view from inside looking outward.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150728812.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504474293)
Just like the other pedestal leg.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150728815.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504474296)
Both legs clamped in place for test fit. That temporary framework allows pulling each leg out for work by just loosening 2 clamps. The stack valve assembly is even easier to pull out and put back exactly in the same position.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150729817.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504474295)
Grinding is a necessary evil.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150729818.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504474298)
More evil grinding in preparation for welding.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150729819.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504474298)
Bevelled for deeper penetration.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150729822.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504474301)
Could've been bevelled deeper there.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150730823.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504474301)
Typically globby start for me. Didn't trust my MIG abilities for this, so it's 7018.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150731828.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504474303)
Some undercut present.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150731831.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504474303)
Looks like about 3 passes, but I don't remember.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 03, 2017, 06:07:25 PM
Control valves mount.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150802847.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504475630)
When last shown, this thing was tacked together. I used that MIG squirt gun all over it. Determined to learn that process and this was the least critical thing to learn on.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150802848.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504475630)
Not terrible.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150802852.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504475634)
The machine I used says it can do up to 1/4 inch thick steel. It will do so if there's no wind, clean steel, a welder who knows what he or she is doing and has successful MIG welding experience, and the tide is high in Borneo. I blame Borneo and you can't prove otherwise.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150802855.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504475634)
This is not an example of good welding.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150802864.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504475638)
Wire brushing it doesn't improve it all that much.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150802871.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504475638)
See my little inspector with the big eyes? No help.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150802875.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504475639)
Underside, brushed.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150802882.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504475640)
Back in position.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150802883.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504475641)
Operator's view.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150802884.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504475642)
Ugh. No closeups!

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150802885.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504475643)
That short vertical plate on the controls' mount needs to be attached to that leaning leg.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 03, 2017, 06:27:38 PM
Controls and pedestal, continued.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150803886.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504476761)
Some slices of angle used to connect the controls to the pedestal.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150803887.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504476761)
Other side.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150803888.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504476765)
Let the squirt gun begin.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150803889.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504476765)
This is not the worst of it.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150803892.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504476768)
How would you like to see this apparition floating in the darkness in your garage?

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150803893.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504476769)
A new art form is born -- Gruesome MIG.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150803894.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504476770)
Tacks are not as scary.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150803895.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504476771)
But under the right care, they grow up to be scary.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150803903.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504476772)
A grinder is the only cure.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150803908.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504476772)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150804918.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504476826)
Bolted in and not falling off.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150804920.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504476825)
Reachable. That's also a good feature.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150804924.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504476827)
The last of the holes have to be plugged so wasps don't take over the controls.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150804925.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504476828)
That's the last of MIG on this project.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Ox on September 04, 2017, 09:41:35 AM
Borneo made me chuckle. 

Is that MIG welder flux core only?   

The way I do vertical is to keep spot welding, laying the next one over the last so it looks like a row of nickles.  Haven't wore out the solenoid in my welder yet and it's over 10 years old.  Maybe you can try that next time and see what you think.  I have never been able to run a constant bead vertically.  It'll just run and sag and glob up.  I'm sure there's a perfect setting or something but I've never been taught or been to school and am self taught.  Self taught only goes so far.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: gasman1075 on September 04, 2017, 10:57:59 AM
Crusarius,

That is very kind of you too offer. I am in Stephentown NY on the Mass / NY border close to VT. 40 minutes east of Albany.

Thanks Jack
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 04, 2017, 12:48:21 PM
Quote from: Ox on September 04, 2017, 09:41:35 AM
Borneo made me chuckle. 

Is that MIG welder flux core only?   

All of this was done with MIG (Metal Inert Gas). The gas I use is 75% CO2 / 25% Argon. The machine came with a roll of flux core wire, but I used that up making a mess on a lawn mower deck. I need to get another roll so I can practice even when the wind blows. It's pretty obvious I need the practice.

Quote
The way I do vertical is to keep spot welding, laying the next one over the last so it looks like a row of nickles.  Haven't wore out the solenoid in my welder yet and it's over 10 years old.  Maybe you can try that next time and see what you think.  I have never been able to run a constant bead vertically.  It'll just run and sag and glob up.  I'm sure there's a perfect setting or something but I've never been taught or been to school and am self taught.  Self taught only goes so far.

The only time I've had acceptable fusion of parts using successive, overlapping tacks is when welding sheet metal -- under 1/8 inch thick. Anything else just looks like it's welded and I can knock it back apart with a hammer. Since my vertical-up welding with stick is globby, it's not a surprise my MIG is even worse. :)

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: 21incher on September 04, 2017, 03:04:04 PM
Welder says up to 1/4 inch means it only has power for a good weld on 3/16. So many of the small mig machines are overrated.  This has been a great thread to follow.  I think your next build should be a cnc plasma table to allow you to save time and tooling on builds like this. Things it used to take me hours to machine can be cut in a couple minutes with no destroyed tooling.  I wonder what your electric bill looked like with those miles of weld. Thanks for sharing.  :) 
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 04, 2017, 04:58:24 PM
21incher,

I suspect you're right on the overrating. It does a decent job on 3/16 and under without going so slow that it builds up.

A CNC table would be fantastic, but that's out of my league -- too much I'd have to learn just to start planning!

It helps to spread the welding out so no one electric bill raises alarms. Even those that did were easily explained, "You have to remember we had some really [hot, cold] days back at the start of that bill."  ;D
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Ljohnsaw on September 04, 2017, 05:04:54 PM
Quote from: grouch on September 04, 2017, 04:58:24 PM
It helps to spread the welding out so no one electric bill raises alarms. Even those that did were easily explained, "You have to remember we had some really [hot, cold] days back at the start of that bill."  ;D

I was doing a LOT of welding one month - like 15 lbs of stick.  I have a HIGH electric rate and I figured I was spent about $20 extra that month.  WAY cheaper then doing Oxy-Acet!
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 04, 2017, 08:47:46 PM
Bucket.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150804916.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504571094)
An aluminum yardstick is handy for drawing big circles and arcs. I drilled holes where needed. That's a piece of 3/16 inch thick panelling being used for drawing a pattern.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150804926.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504571094)
Had to drag out some old drafting tools for part of this. My CAD drawing is there in the lower right of the photo.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150804927.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504571097)
This has nothing to do with the backhoe; it's a drafting set from the '70s.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150805928.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504571098)
Checking various ways to cut that pattern out of 3/8 inch thick plate.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150805930.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504571100)
Ready to cut out one side of the bucket. The pattern is undersized by 3/16 inch -- that's how much my plasma cutter's kerf is offset from the edge of its nozzle at this pattern's thickness.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150805931.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504571100)
Both bucket sides cut out, leaving a football-shaped hole in my plate.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150805932.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504571102)
A little better view of the parts and slag. Those homemade tongs are extremely handy. If I hadn't found them, I'd have to make some.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150807939.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504571103)
The back of the bucket and the front edge are also made from the 3/8 inch plate.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150807940.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504571105)
Just can't get away from grinding, its noise and its dust.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150807941.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504571106)
Back, front, and sides laid out and ready for assembly.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Kbeitz on September 05, 2017, 04:03:29 AM
This projects going to be Heavy...
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Crusarius on September 05, 2017, 08:05:43 AM
Hey grouch. anytime I use my plasma I had to stop grinding to take the slag off. slag kills stones and is hard on everything else.

I have a few different ways to remove the slag.
1. slag hammer - slow painful and accuracy of the hit is important.
2. Needle scaler - much better than the slag hammer but sometimes does not get all the slag off. may be the cheap needle scaler.
3. I made a 4" wide blade for my air hammer - works just like a slag hammer but much easier to hit the slag with poor accuracy.

If I do need to do any cleanup after knocking the slag off I use a soft pad. Very similar to flapdisk but lasts 200 times longer.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 05, 2017, 01:11:55 PM
Crusarius,

The grinding was for weld preparation -- getting that rust off. All the slag from the plasma cutter was easily knocked off with the chipping hammer.

I use a needle scaler for removing welding slag. It's especially handy for 6011 slag.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Ox on September 06, 2017, 10:32:48 AM
A needle scaler is one of those tools that are indispensable for several things yet many folks don't know they exist. 

Has anybody seen an electric one?

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 06, 2017, 12:20:52 PM
I wore out a pneumatic one. Never seen an electric needle scaler.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 07, 2017, 02:29:41 PM
Bucket.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150807946.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504808102)
Sides tacked together with 3/8 inch rebar as spacers. Front edge welded in place.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150807947.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504808102)
It resembles a bucket at least.
(Yes, Kbeitz, it was already getting heavy at this point).

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150807948.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504808107)
Front edge to side panel weld. 1/8 inch 7018 rod. Not too bad; a little cold maybe.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150807949.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504808108)
Ugh. This is why I have a basket on top of my AC/DC welder just to hold grinders. No way to look at something like that and say, "That's good enough".

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150807951.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504808112)
Back is on.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150807953.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504808112)
Bucket is 16 inches wide, outside to outside, and the main curves of the sides are 19 inch radius. (Will try to post dimensioned drawings at the end of all this).

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150808954.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504808113)
The rest of the bucket comes from the 3/16 inch thick stuff cut off the front bucket during the bucket buttectomy a few pages back.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150808955.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504808115)
A propane weedburner, a railroad rail 'anvil', and a gentle persuader used to make the curve match the bucket sides better.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150808956.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504808115)
Tacking and clamping to finish persuading the 3/16 inch thick steel to conform.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 07, 2017, 02:41:49 PM
Bucket.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150808957.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504808117)
Closer view of tacks used to get that panel to match the sides.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150808958.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504808117)
Working it in, tack by tack.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150808959.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504808120)
That corner is out by about the thickness of the steel -- 3/16 inch.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150808960.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504808119)
Almost looks like rivets. Almost, that is.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150808961.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504808121)
More complete view of the clamp used to pull that last bit into place.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150808962.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504808121)
Bottom is flush with the sides. Note the vise grips and strip of 3/8 steel used to make sure I didn't pull that thing off the table onto my toes while clamping, beating and tacking.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150808963.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504808123)
Heavy tacks, but I didn't want it springing back out.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150808964.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504808123)
Closer view of the corner fit to front.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150808965.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504808127)
Center, where the 3/16 inch bottom is tacked to the 3/8 inch front.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150808966.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504808125)
Other corner at front.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150808967.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504808127)
4th corner tacked.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Crusarius on September 07, 2017, 03:01:59 PM
you did not add any taper to the back of the bucket? How does the dirt come out when you are digging. All of the buckets I am aware of are narrower in the back than the front. This helps the material come out easier. Also makes digging easier not dragging the entire side of the bucket along the dirt.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 07, 2017, 06:15:26 PM
Quote from: Crusarius on September 07, 2017, 03:01:59 PM
you did not add any taper to the back of the bucket? How does the dirt come out when you are digging. All of the buckets I am aware of are narrower in the back than the front. This helps the material come out easier. Also makes digging easier not dragging the entire side of the bucket along the dirt.

No taper. I made this bucket as near a copy as I could to the Terex linked 'way back near the start of this thread. It looked a bit odd to me, too, but I took a leap of faith that they had excavating experience to back up the design. So far, it has been very nice to work with.

The pivot and the radius of the sides (and therefore, the bottom) make this thing just ease through material. It acts more like an ice cream scoop whereas the buckets I've used before act more like a tablespoon held backwards in your fist or a paddle.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Crusarius on September 07, 2017, 06:22:00 PM
kool. glad to hear that.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Ox on September 08, 2017, 08:41:34 AM
The old backhoe I have here is a straight bucket.  It's basically the same shape as the one you made.  I wasn't even aware newer buckets were tapered... the longer I live the more I realize I don't know squat.

You did a real nice job making sure the hoe bucket was true.  Nice work.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 08, 2017, 03:36:00 PM
Bucket.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150809968.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504897841)
This is not a backhoe bucket. It is a Cellulosic Combustion Containment Unit.
Ok, it's a cobbled up wood burner made out of an old water tank for a well and some 3/8 inch rebar.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150809969.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504897841)
That hat is part of the backhoe bucket. There's a nice red glow in the mouth of the CCCU.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150809970.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504897844)
Persuaders. Laying that piece of railroad rail on its side provides a convenient place to hammer curves.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150809971.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504897844)
More curvature of the hat, more heat waves, more red.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150809972.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504897846)
Heat and hammer to taste. It's about done.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150809973.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504897846)
The carbon on the back won't hurt a thing. Curvature looks about right.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150809974.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504897847)
Curve ok; too wide.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150809975.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504897849)
That gap can be closed up during tacking.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150809976.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504897849)
Fits well enough on the right and bottom.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150809977.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504897850)
Needs to be cut to width.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150810989.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504897955)
Start where it fits and work to where it doesn't.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150810990.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504897955)
That's a fit.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150810991.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504897959)
That's not.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150810992.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504897960)
Transition from curved bottom to flat back.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150810996.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504897962)
Tacked where it fits.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150810997.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504897961)
Clamp advanced ahead of the tacks.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150810998.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504897963)
Eventually, you run out of things to clamp.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150810999.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1504897964)
That's where it didn't fit before. Easier to pull it in to fit than push it out.

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: gww on September 08, 2017, 04:06:58 PM
grouch
This project just amazes me.  I give you credit for even having the gumtion to even takle it.  Again, I am amazed.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Magicman on September 08, 2017, 05:50:54 PM
When I first saw the bucket I thought that you had gone to the junkyard with Kbeitz.   :)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Kbeitz on September 08, 2017, 06:02:40 PM
I hate to say it nut there is a real nice bucket in the yard right now.
I forgot about it... My son is looking for one..
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 08, 2017, 06:12:42 PM
gww,

Thanks! I'm just too hard-headed to not tackle it. Always wanted to build one and everything finally came together so I could.


Magicman,

Given the treasures he pulls out of that -magic- junkyard, that's a compliment. Could probably have found the whole DanG thing there, but then I wouldn't have had the fun of building it. Thanks! :)


Kbeitz,

Try looking under that bucket; the rest might still be attached. You're going to have to share that junkyard. It ain't fair you keep it to yourself.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Peter Drouin on September 08, 2017, 07:03:06 PM
Coming along well, Nice job.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 08, 2017, 09:02:07 PM
Quote from: Peter Drouin on September 08, 2017, 07:03:06 PM
Coming along well, Nice job.

Thank you. This is a (mostly) working machine now and all of this is a sort of flashback showing how it got to the point shown at the beginning of the thread. Had some help and advice on some hydraulic bugs back on page 1, I think.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 13, 2017, 08:17:48 AM
Hurricane Irma acting like a geography blender just about made me forget my place in this. She's still unwinding, but done ripping and tearing.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 13, 2017, 08:23:57 AM
Bucket.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150810002.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505304876)
There's one more piece of the puzzle to be fitted.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150810006.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505304876)
A little plasma trimming.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150811007.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505304880)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150811008.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505304881)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150811010.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505304882)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150811011.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505304883)
A cold glob at the start, crater at the end.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150811013.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505304884)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150811017.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505304885)
Outside all welded up.


Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 13, 2017, 08:29:28 AM
Bucket.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150811019.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505305518)
Inside, after welding the outside.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150813024.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505305519)
Lots of rods, fumes and slag.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150813025.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505305520)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150813026.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505305522)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150813027.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505305522)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150813028.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505305523)
Fully welded inside and out.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Peter Drouin on September 14, 2017, 06:24:30 AM
Looking good.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Ox on September 14, 2017, 09:38:19 AM
I've never been able to leave a bead like that using an arc welder.  The whole project is pretty impressive using what you've got on hand and all.  Not many people could make something like that using what you did.  You should be proud of yourself about that.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Crusarius on September 14, 2017, 09:56:45 AM
You really got me wanting to pull my stick welder back out and see if I still have the skills :)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Ed_K on September 15, 2017, 02:36:08 PM
 This is the koolest thread I've ever read. Took me 3 day to read it. Nice work.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 15, 2017, 03:14:00 PM
Thanks for the kind words, folks!

(Makes me think I'm not the only nutcase around here, though). :)

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Crusarius on September 15, 2017, 03:23:18 PM
I want to build a bulldozer or some type of tracked vehicle from scratch.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 15, 2017, 03:32:03 PM
Bucket brackets. (Don't know what else to call these parts).

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150813034.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505502902)
45 degree bevel the hard way.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150813035.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505502902)
You've seen "jaggies" in digital images? Just think of the milling machine being used as an analog to digital converter in this case.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150814036.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505502906)
One on the left is fresh from the mill; one on the right is after some touch-up with an angle grinder. Lots less grinding (dust and noise) doing it this way. Besides, milling is more fun than grinding.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150814037.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505502906)
Lots of steps.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150814038.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505502908)
Doesn't take much to smooth.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150814039.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505502908)
Here's where they go -- that 3/8 inch thick back plate of the bucket.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150814040.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505502910)
Some pits are just too deep to grind out.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150814041.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505502911)
Spacing is 5-1/8 inches, accomplished using a pair of 1-2-3 blocks and a 1/8 inch thick milling machine parallel.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150814042.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505502911)
Another view.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150814044.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505502914)
3/8 inch re-bar tack welded on top of the brackets to hold the spacing. Brackets are tacked to the bucket.
The piece of 1/4 inch thick flat bar sticking up on the right is clamped to the side of the bucket to keep it from rolling.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150814045.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505502914)
Closer view of the tack.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150814046.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505502915)
Overview of setup.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150814047.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505502917)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150814048.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505502917)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 15, 2017, 03:33:30 PM
Quote from: Crusarius on September 15, 2017, 03:23:18 PM
I want to build a bulldozer or some type of tracked vehicle from scratch.

Surplus Center has some left and right hydro transaxles for ZTR mowers. No law says they have to drive -wheels-. ;)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Crusarius on September 15, 2017, 03:35:48 PM
Does the head on your mill swivel? mine will swivel front to back or left to right. Makes doing that chamfer much easier. That is how I made a set of V-blocks.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Crusarius on September 15, 2017, 03:36:23 PM
that is my plan :) but I was thinking just buy a cheap zero and part it out. probably be cheaper than just the drive units
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 17, 2017, 06:57:18 AM
Quote from: Crusarius on September 15, 2017, 03:35:48 PM
Does the head on your mill swivel? mine will swivel front to back or left to right. Makes doing that chamfer much easier. That is how I made a set of V-blocks.

It does swivel, but it takes a lot of fiddling to get it back where it's supposed to be. I didn't need accuracy or precision for this so I didn't want to disturb that head.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 17, 2017, 07:23:48 AM
Bucket brackets.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150814049.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505645660)
The fun of filling in those bevels begins here.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150815052.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505645660)
I had a hard time seeing the whole puddle in that space. It was tough getting enough heat into the 1 inch thick bracket. No problem with the 3/8 inch thick back plate.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150815053.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505645663)
See that slag up in the shadow where the weld bead should be? Wore out some dental picks and more grinder disks on this thing.

Hindsight tells me I should have laid the whole bucket on its side so that the thicker piece (the bracket) was horizontal and flat so I could better aim the rod to get enough heat into that sucker.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150815054.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505645664)
About dead center of the photo you can see the pitted slag pocket -- not enough heat.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150815056.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505645666)
That's not a line of glare; that's slag from a 7018 rod. Pick and grind some more.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150815059.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505645666)
Easy to see there's no fusion here. Pick and grind some more.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150815060.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505645667)
Same problem here.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150815062.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505645668)
This is glare, but there's also a gap -- no fusion.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150815065.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505645670)
I've got to have more power, Scotty! That's all she's got, Cap'n!

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150816066.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505645670)
Molten steel shrinks. It pulls everything it's attached to, with it.


Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Kbeitz on September 17, 2017, 07:38:09 AM
Quote from: grouch on September 17, 2017, 06:57:18 AM
Quote from: Crusarius on September 15, 2017, 03:35:48 PM
Does the head on your mill swivel? mine will swivel front to back or left to right. Makes doing that chamfer much easier. That is how I made a set of V-blocks.

It does swivel, but it takes a lot of fiddling to get it back where it's supposed to be. I didn't need accuracy or precision for this so I didn't want to disturb that head.

Chuck a dial indicator in your chuck... Easy to tram it back to zero.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Crusarius on September 17, 2017, 09:18:19 AM
Quote from: grouch on September 17, 2017, 06:57:18 AM
Quote from: Crusarius on September 15, 2017, 03:35:48 PM
Does the head on your mill swivel? mine will swivel front to back or left to right. Makes doing that chamfer much easier. That is how I made a set of V-blocks.

yea, thats usually my idea to.

It does swivel, but it takes a lot of fiddling to get it back where it's supposed to be. I didn't need accuracy or precision for this so I didn't want to disturb that head.

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Crusarius on September 17, 2017, 09:21:13 AM
I bought one of those dual dial indicators for just such an occasion. It works very well. Biggest issue I have is all the bolts and things that need to be loosened then tightened then rotated. it is a decent amount of work to do. I think I am just going to get some countersink bits and use those for beveling.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 18, 2017, 06:54:42 AM
Bucket brackets.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150816067.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505731243)
Gloves, me and the steel got cooked before those bevels were filled.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150816068.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505731243)
A line of 7018 slag in the undercut.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150816069.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505731245)
Looking better.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150816070.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505731245)
Part of why I had so much trouble with these is that I kept trying to weld as if the two pieces were equal.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150816071.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505731248)
Note how much the 3/8 inch plate is built up here with weld. That's not the best substitute for good welding technique.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150816074.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505731248)
That's glare this time, not slag.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150816075.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505731250)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150816082.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505731251)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150816083.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505731251)
Warpage is pretty obvious in this photo. The 3/8 inch rebar in the background shows that it was more restrained than the one in the foreground.
No telling how much I weakened that back plate around those welds.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 18, 2017, 07:06:58 AM
Bucket brackets.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150816086.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505731334)
Oops. Only one pin goes in now.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150816087.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505731334)
The pin is 1-1/4 inch in diameter.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150816088.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505731339)
That can't be pounded in without damaging something.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150816089.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505731339)
I've added white lines to show the upper edges of the 3/8 inch rebar.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150816091.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505731343)
It needs to put its foot down on that plate.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150816092.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505731343)
It's out of focus, but you can see the back rebar touching the plate while the near one is above the plate.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150816093.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505731345)
The pin appears to be parallel to the plate and the bracket looks perpendicular, but everything above that is just plain wonkified.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150817094.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505731345)
View from the back.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150817095.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505731347)
It's easy to see what gave when things started shrinking.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150817096.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505731347)
Compare the offset of the hole to the pin with the offset of the rebar to the plate.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 18, 2017, 07:13:50 AM
Bucket brackets.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150817097.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505731348)
Tack weld the back rebar to the plate...

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150817099.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505731350)
and one end of the front rebar.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150817100.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505731350)
Prep for welding nothing to the inside.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150817101.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505731352)
You have to have a wide space to weld nothing to something.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150817102.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505731353)
A whole bunch of nothing welded inside.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150817103.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505731354)
That foot is almost down.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150818108.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505731355)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150818109.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505731356)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150818110.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505731357)
I can live with that sliver of daylight.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Crusarius on September 18, 2017, 07:53:21 AM
I need to remember the 3/8 rebar for holding stuff in place. its cheap light and flexible when you need it to be.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 19, 2017, 09:23:25 AM
Dipper.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150821112.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505826064)
My dipper is too fat.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150821113.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505826064)
I know this has something to do with the taper. This is why my CAD drawings were always out of sync with reality.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150821114.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505826069)
My straight line cuts with oxy-acetylene were usually more like drunken paths with drool.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150821115.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505826069)
Plasma and a straight edge are much easier.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150821116.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505826073)
Other side. Note the piece curving away. Hot rolled steel has stresses built in; cutting lets 'em out.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150821117.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505826073)
Another view of the same cut.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150821118.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505826075)
A strange shark?

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150821119.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505826075)
None of the stuff that was cut out was helping with the dipper's function.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150821120.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505826077)
It's a big mouth.
Black grease smeared on the DOM pivots keeps rust at bay.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150821122.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505826077)
Flop the fish on its back to prep for welding.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150821123.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505826078)
Very little slag to remove from the cuts. Note the curvature of that flap.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150821124.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505826079)
Clamps close the mouth.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150821125.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505826080)
Gap at the hinge looks to be about 3/32 inch.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150821127.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505826083)
Gap at the other end looks to be about 1/16 inch.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150821133.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505826082)
1/8 inch 6011 rod. Note tack on the left and the cooked grease above.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150821134.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505826083)
Closer view. Somebody beat it up with a chipping hammer.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150823135.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505826085)
Skinnier dipper, but it needs a lot more space.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-150823136.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505826086)
Without that gap, the bucket could never curl to less than 90 degrees relative to the dipper.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 21, 2017, 08:30:21 AM
Boom end.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151115334.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505996135)
The end of the boom needs to be closed but I don't want to try bending those curved corners.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151115335.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505996135)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151115336.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505996140)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151115337.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505996140)
Quick, Robin! To the Bat-Mo-Boom!

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151115338.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505996143)
Oops. The white lines reveal the secret plan.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151115339.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505996143)
The weld drools a little.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151115340.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505996144)
Vertical up 6011 rod filling the gap in the darkness in the left of the photo.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151115341.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505996145)
Still in shadow; view from above.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151115342.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505996148)
All filled.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151115343.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505996147)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151115344.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505996148)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151115345.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505996149)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151115347.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505996151)
End closed.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151115348.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505996151)
After cleanup with a needle scaler.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151115349.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505996153)
After grinding some edges smooth. This is not just for looks; it improves the ability of paint to stick and it makes it a little less carnivorous when greasing or doing other work on it.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151115350.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1505996153)
Not quite a work of art, but the sucker is closed up.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 22, 2017, 09:53:13 AM
Boom other end.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151117351.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506088013)
This is the end with the hinge for the dipper stick.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151117352.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506088013)
Two magnets hold the plate flush with the end for tacking in place.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151117353.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506088015)
6011 again. Fat, ugly welds.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151117354.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506088015)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151117355.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506088017)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 22, 2017, 10:00:17 AM
Dipper ends.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151212480.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506088070)
Good place for wasps and mud. This is the bucket end of the dipper.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151212481.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506088070)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151212482.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506088073)
Cuts and bend are a little raggedy, but they'll do.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151212483.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506088073)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151212484.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506088076)
The hammer responsible for that fancy edge is in the lower left of the photo.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151212485.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506088076)
Welded with 6011 rod. Photo shows the aftermath of a needle scaler.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151212486.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506088077)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151212488.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506088078)
Almost all the grease has been cooked off.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151212490.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506088078)
The big end of the dipper.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 22, 2017, 10:03:06 AM
Bucket cylinder mount boxing.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151215503.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506088115)
The two pieces of 1/2 inch steel holding the DOM tube just didn't look right. Boxed in with 3/16 inch steel left over from the bucket buttectomy.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-151215504.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506088115)
It at least looks stronger, now.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: gww on September 22, 2017, 10:08:05 AM
Grouch

I bet your local welding rod supplier just loves you. :)
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 22, 2017, 04:21:42 PM
I shopped around for rods. Surprisingly, the best deal for price and dryness of the rods for me was a TSC store about 45 minutes away. I'm not sure how many 10 lb and 25 lb boxes I bought there. About 20 pounds came from the nearest welding supply place -- about 1 hour away -- but they burned inconsistently.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Kbeitz on September 23, 2017, 03:37:48 AM
I buy my rods from the Amish store. I use 80T AC Plus
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 28, 2017, 08:19:59 AM
Pins and retainers.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160220768.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506600793)
Used a plywood template to cut these out with a plasma cutter. Too much slag -- either cranked up too high or moving too slow.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160308803.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506600793)
That rusty, round table rotates.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160308804.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506600795)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 28, 2017, 08:26:08 AM
Bucket linkage.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160316809.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506600862)
Putting the dogbone together.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160316810.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506600862)
Undercut above and drooling below.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160316811.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506600864)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160316812.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506600864)
DOM tubing, 2 inch OD and bored for 1-1/4 inch pins.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160316813.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506600866)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160316814.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506600866)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160316816.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506600868)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160316817.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506600868)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160316818.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506600870)

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Crusarius on September 28, 2017, 08:32:56 AM
I like the rotating table. One of these days I may actually build one.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 28, 2017, 08:07:37 PM
I got this one from a farm auction. It's just a pipe with a close fit over a steel rod and a bearing at the bottom.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Crusarius on September 29, 2017, 07:44:30 AM
power window motor with a computer power supply and a potentiometer be real nice add to that table :)
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Hilltop366 on September 29, 2017, 08:17:50 AM
I was thinking a sewing machine motor and foot pedal control.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Crusarius on September 29, 2017, 08:25:48 AM
That is a much better idea :) The foot control would be key. Bet you could use the foot control on the window motor.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 29, 2017, 12:31:08 PM
Either way would beat having to turn the table with one hand while the other welds.

It wouldn't need much variation in speed to be effective. It's not like you're going to be making spin art with paint. :)

Someone built this little table from scrap pieces. The center column runs all the way to the ridiculously underbuilt base, so a motor and belt could rest on that base and be protected. Putting the motor up close to the underside of the table, you might need extra weight on the base, but that would not be a bad thing either.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 29, 2017, 11:41:21 PM
Boxing the dogbone.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160317833.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506600929)
The sides are 1/2 inch thick, but it still didn't look strong enough to me. 3/16 inch thick pieces used to box it in.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160317834.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506600930)
Only needed a little curvature to fit.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160317835.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506600932)
Scrap pieces used to prop it up at convenient angles for welding.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160317836.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506600932)
Don't look at that blob at the bottom. It must've been defective steel. I'd never burn a hole when welding two different thicknesses. No sir, not me. Defective steel. Let's move along.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160317837.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506600934)
See? Perfect ... ok, moving again...

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160317840.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506600934)
It's an artistic rendering of giant woolly worms square dancing.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160318841.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506600938)
Installed.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160318842.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506600937)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160318843.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506600938)
Clevis and come-along needed because that bucket is not a featherweight.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160318844.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506600939)

Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Crusarius on September 30, 2017, 08:56:07 AM
Oh there is something defective alright :)

One day I really want to build something like this. Mostly for the pure fun and entertainment. I was thinking a bulldozer though.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on September 30, 2017, 11:24:22 AM
It has been fun. The fact that I didn't have to have it kept the pressure off so that I could enjoy working out each problem and building each part. That's also why it took so long -- it kept getting superceded by things that simply had to be done. For a while, I thought it would be up to my heirs to finish it. :D
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Crusarius on September 30, 2017, 01:13:11 PM
I have a jeep Comanche like that. good new is the jeep will rot away to nothing before my heirs will get stuck with it.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: grouch on October 01, 2017, 01:07:49 PM
Boom and dipper pins.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160323849.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506876615)
I didn't like the mess I was making with MIG, so I went back to 6011.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160323850.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506876615)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160323854.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506876617)
Boom pinned to the base, finally.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160605360.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506876617)
Note the weld stringer on the dipper bracket. Normally that would mean, "tear here". Here, it was an attempt to pull that bracket back into alignment.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160605362.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506876619)
Didn't work; notice the sliver of daylight in the upper right.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160613388.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506876620)
Time for the weedburner. Note the pin is already in place. It was close enough to drive in and the heating is to relax some of the strain so it is possible to get the pin back out.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160613389.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506876622)
This is not quick.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160613390.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506876623)
Hot enough for bacon; not hot enough for biscuits.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160613391.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506876624)
It doesn't have to reach forging temperature but it does have to get hot enough to move and accommodate that pin.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38564/backhoe-160613395.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1506876625)
That looks about right. Let it slowly cool with the pin in place.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Ljohnsaw on July 15, 2023, 10:27:20 PM
So I was searching for something and it popped me into the middle of this older thread.  So I read to the end then started at the beginning to see what the finished tractor looked like and then continued back to the middle. ::) :D What a great read!

So, how's it holding up and performing for you?  I did notice that you put the loader cylinders on "upside down" compared to most I've seen. Any particular reason for that?  It just makes for a lot of hoses that must travel a bit.
Title: Re: backhoe from scratch and scrap
Post by: Magicman on July 15, 2023, 10:47:05 PM
grouch dropped off in October, 2017 and I was unsuccessful contacting him. ??