Hello guys.....so do any of you guys grind your chains....I used to be a hand file only kind of guy....however, I am so busy anymore, any spare time I get is always needed somewhere else.....I decided to get a grinder, so I got an Oregon 520....well I tell you after learning how to use her, I absolutely love it....I now have 2-CBN wheels, and I can get a great chain with the grinder....yes I still hand file, but you can also touch a chain up with the grinder too....
I will include pics of cutters I have sharpened using my grinder....please feel free to include pics of cutters you guys sharpen....don't matter if you use a file it not, I just like to see what everyone else's chains look like....we can always pick up new tips, and tricks to get better chains!!!!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43305/IMG_1358~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1489765248)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43305/IMG_2035~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1489765248)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43305/IMG_2021.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1489764999)
I never owned a grinder and only hand file so I can't show any pics of ground chain. But I can say you have a good aggressive side plate with both the Stihl RS and Oregon Vanguard chains. About spot on sideplate angle with the bottom Stihl green chain for durability an cutting efficiency.
As you shown best to keep the depth gauges high with the 2 aggressive hooked chains.
Hello sir...ya that's why I put grinding/hand filing chains both...I would love to see your handfiled chains too!!!!
I know you have been in the business for years, guys could learn a lot from seeing upclose pics of your chains....those pics were taken with a phone, so it's very easy....
Yeah I can take phone pics of my round filed cutters :D
But I won't have anything extraordinary to show hehe.
I guess the best way to show proper hand filing with end result is a 2 minute video on the technique that I use.
I'll have to get my 13 daughter to help me get it up on YouTube. ;D
I'll get the video for this thread, but with my busy schedule with my young family it will take a bit.
At the moment we're getting ready for a 2 week vacation to London England.
Yes sir, I hear ya about having no time....with full time job, doin wood on the side, and a woman and 18-month old girl, my time is spread thin LOL...
Hey that would be awesome to have a video from you....I grew up with saws, but I know for a fact it will help people, and I am always learning myself!!!!
Guys like you are few and far between!!!!
And I enjoy grinding/filing chains for some strange reason, always have...its one of the most important things to do right I believe!!!!
Thanks khntr85.
Yes in my opinion there are few things as rewarding as cutting your own wood with a chainsaw and maintaining it to perfection.
I have a couple customers one who is a judge and the other is a surgeon. I put their tree on the ground for them, but they are more then happy to cut it up and stack it themselves plus take a few pointers on hand filing.
Great way to relax and unwind they claim :)
I have access to the chain grinder at work but the only time I use it is if I hit a rock and severely dull the chain. I prety much always hand file my chains. I don't claim to be a pro at hand filing chains but I get them to cut prety darn good generally. :) I'll try to get a pic tomorrow when it's light out.
Hey good deal, love to see what you got....you know since I started sharpening chains for people(very small scale side business), I have come to find out 1-important fact....99% of people who tell me they can sharpen a chain do NOT HAVE A CLUE how to sharpen a chain....even when I see a chain that has the cutters fairly sharp and a decent profile, the left or right cutters are way shorter than the other side...I believe a lot of people do a lot of work l/mods to their saws and try to take care of them, but neglect the most important part, the CHAIN.....
I do know that I am a little OCD about my chains, but a sharp chain can and will make any saw run well....i will say I am so glad that my dad taught me years ago to not fight the saw, when it's not cutting he would say STOP RIGHT NOW, and either file the chain or swap chains....
Well anyway, if you guys have any "secrets", or just a tip that youbthinkncan help a beginner or a seasoned pro, let's hear it!!!
Ok guys, as my buddy @philbert says, grind as you file, file as you grind!!!
I grind the same profile into a cutter as a file would....this way me and my customers can still file/touch-up our chains when needed!!!!
Also this shows that you can put the excact same profile on a cutter as a file produces, if you practice and learn how to properly use a grinder......I used my CBN wheel on this chain....also this was a hard pic to take...I had the file in one hand and had the phone to take the picture in my other hand!!!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43305/IMG_2085.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1489764995)
I grew up on a Christmas tree farm so we had to have good sharp
saw's all the time. I hate filing. Guess that there was just to much of it.
My Dad was good at it. When I got my hands on a Dremel I learned
real fast. We even found a 12 volt Dremel to use out in the fields.
Now I bought a Oregon a sharpener I got to learn everything all over.
One thing that I did find out is that even with a good machine that
you can have a chain that the left or right cutters are way shorter than
the other side. I would have stayed with the dremel but it eats up the
rocks like mad and I think the diamond stones just cut so slow. I want
to get the job done now.
Hard to get good close-ups with the smartphone but these turned out ok. This is just sharpened freehand with the saw bar leaned up on a tree. It's tricky keeping the angle of the cutter strait when doing this. And I'll admit when sharpening this way, I do sometimes get the cutters just slightly different from left to right but not enough to make a difference in the cut, although it does annoy the slight ocd I have :D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35112/IMG_20170318_102054.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489851713)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35112/IMG_20170318_103719.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489851789)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35112/IMG_20170318_104504~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489851941)
Quote from: khntr85 on March 18, 2017, 07:56:35 AM
Ok guys, as my buddy @philbert says, grind as you file, file as you grind!!!
I grind the same profile into a cutter as a file would....this way me and my customers can still file/touch-up our chains when needed!!!!
Also this shows that you can put the excact same profile on a cutter as a file produces, if you practice and learn how to properly use a grinder......I used my CBN wheel on this chain....also this was a hard pic to take...I had the file in one hand and had the phone to take the picture in my other hand!!!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43305/IMG_2085.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1489764995)
That is important for those who want to touch up their own chains after being ground. Another mistake is people burning the cutters with the grinder. We picked up a bag of chains a different company had ground and the cutters were blue and black from someone trying to take way too much off at once, when the cutters get burnt like that, that also makes it hard to hand file afterwards and can you can ruin a good file trying to even make a mark on the cutter. The angles were also all messed up so we ended up taking the chains and resharpened them at a discount or maybe even free I don't remember. If you want to mess up your own chains, that's one thing but it annoyed me that this outfit had charged the customer professional price to do such a sloppy job and just about ruined their chains. :o
I broke down and bought a grinder for just the reason Woodcutter say's . On my 044 on the processer I can not have the cut wander side to side or I can't get the saw back up . Like Woodcutter I can not keep the cutters even so I grind to even them up . I can keep 2 chains in rotation and in clean wood chains last forever . In frozen dirt on logs I have sharpened 3 times on 1 log . Not anymore logs like that get left for the owners saw .
Free hand filing.
The best I can do picture wise. Need to touch up the chain again, I know! And I am not using chisel chain, wood is too filled with sand for it to work - I live close to the coast, with lots of flying sand and dust.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/aDSCN3705.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489871245)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/aDSCN3697.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489871243)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/aDSCN3704.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489871239)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/aDSCN3700.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489871234)
Quote from: sablatnic on March 18, 2017, 05:16:59 PM
Free hand filing.
The best I can do picture wise. Need to touch up the chain again, I know! And I am not using chisel chain, wood is too filled with sand for it to work - I live close to the coast, with lots of flying sand and dust.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/aDSCN3705.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489871245)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/aDSCN3697.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489871243)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/aDSCN3704.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489871239)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/aDSCN3700.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489871234)
Looks like about time for a new chain to me :D
New chain?!? That too, but with a bit of luck it will take one or two more sharpenings - it hasn't started shedding cutters yet!
8)
Quote from: sablatnic on March 18, 2017, 05:41:27 PM
New chain?!? That too, but with a bit of luck it will take one or two more sharpenings - it hasn't started shedding cutters yet!
8)
Yea I've got several like that, I keep them for cutting stumps and fence rows where there are alot of rocks that would mess up my newer chains. :)
Quote from: Woodcutter_Mo on March 18, 2017, 11:51:52 AM
Hard to get good close-ups with the smartphone but these turned out ok. This is just sharpened freehand with the saw bar leaned up on a tree. It's tricky keeping the angle of the cutter strait when doing this. And I'll admit when sharpening this way, I do sometimes get the cutters just slightly different from left to right but not enough to make a difference in the cut, although it does annoy the slight ocd I have :D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35112/IMG_20170318_102054.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489851713)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35112/IMG_20170318_103719.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489851789)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35112/IMG_20170318_104504~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489851941)
Hey man thanks for posting, looks good....I bet those chains cut fast!!!!
Do you cut more hard or soft wood????
Quote from: sablatnic on March 18, 2017, 05:16:59 PM
Free hand filing.
The best I can do picture wise. Need to touch up the chain again, I know! And I am not using chisel chain, wood is too filled with sand for it to work - I live close to the coast, with lots of flying sand and dust.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/aDSCN3705.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489871245)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/aDSCN3697.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489871243)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/aDSCN3704.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489871239)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/aDSCN3700.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489871234)
Hey very nice, don't it feel good to get your money's worth LOL!!!
A chainsaw grinder is a machine and a machine will beat a man every time. However, I never use anything but a file for two reasons; for one dry grinding hardens the tooth edge so it files hard and 2 I can't carry a grinder in my file pocket. I spend a lot of time making saw logs out of tree service stuff and have to file constantly. It depends on the kind of cutting you do.
Quote from: khntr85 on March 18, 2017, 09:04:58 PM
Quote from: Woodcutter_Mo on March 18, 2017, 11:51:52 AM
Hard to get good close-ups with the smartphone but these turned out ok. This is just sharpened freehand with the saw bar leaned up on a tree. It's tricky keeping the angle of the cutter strait when doing this. And I'll admit when sharpening this way, I do sometimes get the cutters just slightly different from left to right but not enough to make a difference in the cut, although it does annoy the slight ocd I have :D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35112/IMG_20170318_102054.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489851713)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35112/IMG_20170318_103719.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489851789)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35112/IMG_20170318_104504~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489851941)
Hey man thanks for posting, looks good....I bet those chains cut fast!!!!
Do you cut more hard or soft wood????
No problem, yea as long as you keep the drags/depth gauges in spec they cut plenty fast. I cut mostly hard wood.
Quote from: khntr85 on March 18, 2017, 09:06:35 PM
Quote from: sablatnic on March 18, 2017, 05:16:59 PM
Free hand filing.
The best I can do picture wise. Need to touch up the chain again, I know! And I am not using chisel chain, wood is too filled with sand for it to work - I live close to the coast, with lots of flying sand and dust.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/aDSCN3705.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489871245)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/aDSCN3697.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489871243)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/aDSCN3704.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489871239)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/aDSCN3700.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489871234)
Hey very nice, don't it feel good to get your money's worth LOL!!!
You just don't discard usable parts, and it cuts fine! :D
Quote from: moodnacreek on March 18, 2017, 11:55:39 PM
A chainsaw grinder is a machine and a machine will beat a man every time. However, I never use anything but a file for two reasons; for one dry grinding hardens the tooth edge so it files hard and 2 I can't carry a grinder in my file pocket. I spend a lot of time making saw logs out of tree service stuff and have to file constantly. It depends on the kind of cutting you do.
Hello sir...., yes the grinders do keep the angles correct....I also take more than one chain with me when I cut....I am always strapped for time, so I just swap chains....you are correct that a grinder "CAN" harden a tooth.....however, if the oprerater uses the correct technique, you will never burn a cutter....
Quote from: sablatnic on March 18, 2017, 05:16:59 PM
Free hand filing.
The best I can do picture wise. Need to touch up the chain again, I know! And I am not using chisel chain, wood is too filled with sand for it to work - I live close to the coast, with lots of flying sand and dust.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/aDSCN3705.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489871245)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/aDSCN3697.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489871243)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/aDSCN3704.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489871239)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/aDSCN3700.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489871234)
Do you use a grinder or hand file???
Here is a Stihl RS chaini ground.....this is about as aggressive as I go for my chains....since I cut hardwood if I get any more of a point it wouldn't last to long....as long as I keep the proper raker height, it cuts great and no chatter!!!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43305/IMG_2149.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1489765003)
Here is the types of chains customers bring me....
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43305/IMG_2143.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1490195246)
Here is a few Stihl RM chain I ground....
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43305/IMG_2023.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1490195243)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43305/IMG_2024.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1490195243)
Quote from: khntr85 on March 22, 2017, 10:59:49 AM
Quote from: sablatnic on March 18, 2017, 05:16:59 PM
Free hand filing.
The best I can do picture wise. Need to touch up the chain again, I know! And I am not using chisel chain, wood is too filled with sand for it to work - I live close to the coast, with lots of flying sand and dust.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/aDSCN3705.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489871245)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/aDSCN3697.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489871243)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/aDSCN3704.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489871239)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/aDSCN3700.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489871234)
Do you use a grinder or hand file???
Hand file. Faster, sharper and cheaper. And I can do it whenever needed.
I'll race you with my dremel ...
Quote from: khntr85 on March 22, 2017, 11:09:07 AM
Here is the types of chains customers bring me....
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43305/IMG_2143.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1490195246)
Right there is where a grinder comes in really handy. We get some in that are that bad, they even take a while on the grinder. There was a guy was bringing in 5 almost that bad every few days and finally I asked him what in the world he's being trying to cut. He said he had a group of people working clearing brush for horse riding trails, I guess they were cutting down to the dirt alot. Around here you can't do that, too many rocks. If you pick 1 rock in Missouri, 3 more will sprout up :D
Quote from: sablatnic on March 22, 2017, 07:24:28 PM
Quote from: khntr85 on March 22, 2017, 10:59:49 AM
Quote from: sablatnic on March 18, 2017, 05:16:59 PM
Free hand filing.
The best I can do picture wise. Need to touch up the chain again, I know! And I am not using chisel chain, wood is too filled with sand for it to work - I live close to the coast, with lots of flying sand and dust.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/aDSCN3705.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489871245)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/aDSCN3697.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489871243)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/aDSCN3704.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489871239)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/aDSCN3700.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489871234)
Do you use a grinder or hand file???
Hand file. Faster, sharper and cheaper. And I can do it whenever needed.
I used to think hand filing was sharper too....have you used a grinder....
I have found I can grind any full chisel or semi chisel chain as good or better than hand filing....and I used to swear a grinder would only burn chain LOL!!
Could you post some of your hand filed chains by chance?????
Does the Simington square chisel grinder work good? If so, can it also found grind?
Well the BT 6870 went back to work today . By the time I got set up I got about 2 cord ran through . Cutting small Ash up to 10 inch . I wish I would have left my chain alone Rakers at .025 with a new stone on the grinder no hold down but you better have one hand on the cut off when you hit it with the 044 or it will throw it out of the feed deck . On harder or larger wood no problem .
Quote from: Puffergas on March 22, 2017, 08:08:58 PM
Does the Simington square chisel grinder work good? If so, can it also found grind?
Yes those square grinders are great....they will only do a square chain though, I do believe...a lot of guys like square ground for hardwood....I have personally never seen ran any square chain....
Have you had the grinder for awhile???
Is there any way you can get a picture and model number, I can get you more info on it...there are guys that would buy that grinder in a heartbeat, considering it's in decent shape and price if fair!!!!
Quote from: khntr85 on March 23, 2017, 04:31:17 AM
Quote from: Puffergas on March 22, 2017, 08:08:58 PM
Does the Simington square chisel grinder work good? If so, can it also found grind?
Yes those square grinders are great....they will only do a square chain though, I do believe...a lot of guys like square ground for hardwood....I have personally never seen ran any square chain....
Have you had the grinder for awhile???
Is there any way you can get a picture and model number, I can get you more info on it...there are guys that would buy that grinder in a heartbeat, considering it's in decent shape and price if fair!!!!
Dang spell check, I wanted to say round grind not found grind.
I do not have the Simington I was just dreaming about switching to square chisel and that grinder is almost affordable if it really works and square is noticeably better. We cut hard and soft wood. Would be used for felling, bucking and milling.
Quote from: Puffergas on March 23, 2017, 08:57:22 PM
Quote from: khntr85 on March 23, 2017, 04:31:17 AM
Quote from: Puffergas on March 22, 2017, 08:08:58 PM
Does the Simington square chisel grinder work good? If so, can it also found grind?
Yes those square grinders are great....they will only do a square chain though, I do believe...a lot of guys like square ground for hardwood....I have personally never seen ran any square chain....
Have you had the grinder for awhile???
Is there any way you can get a picture and model number, I can get you more info on it...there are guys that would buy that grinder in a heartbeat, considering it's in decent shape and price if fair!!!!
Dang spell check, I wanted to say round grind not found grind.
I do not have the Simington I was just dreaming about switching to square chisel and that grinder is almost affordable if it really works and square is noticeably better. We cut hard and soft wood. Would be used for felling, bucking and milling.
Lol, I knew what you meant....
Donyou have a grinder right now...I cut 90% hardwood, and I occasionally cut pith elm or silver maple(I call softwood).....every time I cut maple it amazes me how easy it is to cut...it's no wonder why guys cutting line and other soft wood can run the log bars....you can't get away with that buried in hedge, locust, oaks....
OK you guys who both file and grind, would you care to let me in on both how and what you grind with so you can file afterwards if you want?? :( I file my chains when ever possible and I dare say I am decent at it. I bought a Oregon clone grinder several years ago to keep my processor chains in shape. I have used it on other chains but rarely now because cant seem to get it done without hardening some of the cutters glass hard. Changed wheels to Oregon brand, changed techniques to no avail. I am not turning my cutters blue, just touching them with quick touches and I still get some glass hard cutters, from a couple to half the chain. They cant be touched with a file afterwards. Once ground, have to grind afterwards. It is especially a problem with my favored RS and RSK Stihl chains, less so with the Carton chain. I am getting a very good chain with the grinder just dont like being locked into grinding after it is preformed once.
use a borazon wheel from Comstock. much more betterer ;)
Or if you want to do a quick touch up after grinding you can
use a dremel with diamond Burrs. $30.00 for 4 on Amazon.
I have a chain saw with this kind of chain on it.
What might it be called ?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Vintage_5.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1490357796)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/vintage_2~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1490357821)
I dont know what the technical name is but I know it as scratcher chain, commonly found on the old 2 man saws.
Quote from: ButchC on March 24, 2017, 06:24:58 AM
OK you guys who both file and grind, would you care to let me in on both how and what you grind with so you can file afterwards if you want?? :( I file my chains when ever possible and I dare say I am decent at it. I bought a Oregon clone grinder several years ago to keep my processor chains in shape. I have used it on other chains but rarely now because cant seem to get it done without hardening some of the cutters glass hard. Changed wheels to Oregon brand, changed techniques to no avail. I am not turning my cutters blue, just touching them with quick touches and I still get some glass hard cutters, from a couple to half the chain. They cant be touched with a file afterwards. Once ground, have to grind afterwards. It is especially a problem with my favored RS and RSK Stihl chains, less so with the Carton chain. I am getting a very good chain with the grinder just dont like being locked into grinding after it is preformed once.
Hello sir.... well I have to ask a few questions, please don't be offended....are you dressing your wheel with a dressing block atleast every chain to expose new material on the wheel....could you take a picture of your wheel and post it here.....if your wheel has the "black ring of death" you will burn a cutter almost instantly....
Also are you using the "tap-gap-tap-tap" method to grind???
Also it is better to remove a tiny bit of cutter material and just make more passes until the chain is back in shape....
Quote from: Kbeitz on March 24, 2017, 08:17:15 AM
I have a chain saw with this kind of chain on it.
What might it be called ?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Vintage_5.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1490357796)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/vintage_2~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1490357821)
Nice old chain. Looks like Disston Henry straddle scratcher chain in 9/16" pitch.
Introduced in the late 1940's.
Hey thanks...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39553/Disston_Henry_straddle_scratcher_chain_2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1490394327)
khntr85, I mainly file sharpen free hand but we do have the common Oregon look a like clone grinder and have tried dremal like mini grinders. Get by but could stand to do better. They all have their advantages and disadvantages.
Last year I wanted to buy some cool whip but couldn't find it anymore. Maybe it was called something else.
I just looked up the price of the upper end Oregon and it's about half the price of the Simington grinder so my clone might be lacking a bit.
Here's how it's done...
https://youtu.be/aVPyV336Fnc
Yep angle grinders come in handy like my battery one. Just lightly touch the disc, then go to the round file to finish up. ;D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20140327_110549.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1395937625)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20140327_110718.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1395937713)
Quote from: khntr85 on March 24, 2017, 09:42:18 AM
Hello sir.... well I have to ask a few questions, please don't be offended....are you dressing your wheel with a dressing block atleast every chain to expose new material on the wheel....could you take a picture of your wheel and post it here.....if your wheel has the "black ring of death" you will burn a cutter almost instantly....
Also are you using the "tap-gap-tap-tap" method to grind???
Also it is better to remove a tiny bit of cutter material and just make more passes until the chain is back in shape....
No offense what so ever, Yes I am giving the chains a couple quick taps and the cut is so light that I can make the wheel touch or miss by leaning slightly on the handle either way. The picture was taken after touching up a 84 driver chain. I clean the wheel with the dressing stick every chain and reshape when necessary.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/45133/20170325_075540.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1490614968)
Quote from: Puffergas on March 24, 2017, 07:02:46 PM
khntr85, I mainly file sharpen free hand but we do have the common Oregon look a like clone grinder and have tried dremal like mini grinders. Get by but could stand to do better. They all have their advantages and disadvantages.
Last year I wanted to buy some cool whip but couldn't find it anymore. Maybe it was called something else.
I just looked up the price of the upper end Oregon and it's about half the price of the Simington grinder so my clone might be lacking a bit.
Here's how it's done...
https://youtu.be/aVPyV336Fnc
Hilarious!!
Quote from: ButchC on March 27, 2017, 07:44:04 AM
Quote from: khntr85 on March 24, 2017, 09:42:18 AM
Hello sir.... well I have to ask a few questions, please don't be offended....are you dressing your wheel with a dressing block atleast every chain to expose new material on the wheel....could you take a picture of your wheel and post it here.....if your wheel has the "black ring of death" you will burn a cutter almost instantly....
Also are you using the "tap-gap-tap-tap" method to grind???
Also it is better to remove a tiny bit of cutter material and just make more passes until the chain is back in shape....
No offense what so ever, Yes I am giving the chains a couple quick taps and the cut is so light that I can make the wheel touch or miss by leaning slightly on the handle either way. The picture was taken after touching up a 84 driver chain. I clean the wheel with the dressing stick every chain and reshape when necessary.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/45133/20170325_075540.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1490614968)
Well your wheel looks great!!!!
Can you get a pic of a cutter you have ground???
khntr85- Im sure I probably missed it somewhere, but what wheel are you using if you don't mind me asking? We use CBN wheels but the last one we had re-coated didn't last as long as we think it should have. Wouldn't mind trying a different type as long as it grinds plenty fast, doesn't wear down too quick, makes a nice finish and doesn't constantly gum up and try to burn the cutters. Looks like what you are using is working well.
Quote from: Woodcutter_Mo on April 03, 2017, 04:23:06 PM
khntr85- Im sure I probably missed it somewhere, but what wheel are you using if you don't mind me asking? We use CBN wheels but the last one we had re-coated didn't last as long as we think it should have. Wouldn't mind trying a different type as long as it grinds plenty fast, doesn't wear down too quick, makes a nice finish and doesn't constantly gum up and try to burn the cutters. Looks like what you are using is working well.
Hello no problem my friend....I currently use CBN wheels mostly, but I also still use my stone wheels.....I know this will sound strange, but it really just depends on my mood....I used to use the stone wheels on really bad chains to save some life in my CBN wheel...but since I have already paid for the wheels by grinding some local guys chains, I have been using the CBN wheel for about everything lately.....I have 2-wheels, one for .325 and one for 3/8....
I got my CBN wheels form diamond wheel company......where do you get your CBN wheels, and how long did they last before you got the recoated.....did you ever dress your wheels with the white stones, it is supposed to clean the wheel.....I got one included with each whee when I bought them.....you can still burn cutters with CBN wheels, just have to use the tap method....
Quote from: khntr85 on April 04, 2017, 08:54:08 AM
Quote from: Woodcutter_Mo on April 03, 2017, 04:23:06 PM
khntr85- Im sure I probably missed it somewhere, but what wheel are you using if you don't mind me asking? We use CBN wheels but the last one we had re-coated didn't last as long as we think it should have. Wouldn't mind trying a different type as long as it grinds plenty fast, doesn't wear down too quick, makes a nice finish and doesn't constantly gum up and try to burn the cutters. Looks like what you are using is working well.
Hello no problem my friend....I currently use CBN wheels mostly, but I also still use my stone wheels.....I know this will sound strange, but it really just depends on my mood....I used to use the stone wheels on really bad chains to save some life in my CBN wheel...but since I have already paid for the wheels by grinding some local guys chains, I have been using the CBN wheel for about everything lately.....I have 2-wheels, one for .325 and one for 3/8....
I got my CBN wheels form diamond wheel company......where do you get your CBN wheels, and how long did they last before you got the recoated.....did you ever dress your wheels with the white stones, it is supposed to clean the wheel.....I got one included with each whee when I bought them.....you can still burn cutters with CBN wheels, just have to use the tap method....
Ok, this wheel is a Radiac and I may have been mistaken as this may have been a new wheel and not re-coated. I may have gotten that mixed up with one of our other cbn's. We do clean the grit with a white oxide dressing stick. We haven't had any problem burning cutters but you can feel it's grinding slower and also see and feel the grit is starting to smooth out. It's still got some life left but I can tell it'll need replaced before too long. I'd say we've had this wheel for a year or so, not sure how many chains we've ground with it seems like this wheel just didn't last as long as it should have. I may look into a CBN from diamond wheel company once this one quits and see how it does. Thanks for the info.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35112/IMG_20170404_092110365_HDR~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1491315929)
are those CBN wheels the same as a borazon wheel?? that's what I use and got it from Comstock. seems to work better than the stone wheels
Quote from: OH logger on April 04, 2017, 05:59:27 PM
are those CBN wheels the same as a borazon wheel?? that's what I use and got it from Comstock. seems to work better than the stone wheels
Borazon is a brand of CBN :)
k thanks for clearing that up ;)
Quote from: Woodcutter_Mo on April 04, 2017, 10:30:34 AM
Quote from: khntr85 on April 04, 2017, 08:54:08 AM
Quote from: Woodcutter_Mo on April 03, 2017, 04:23:06 PM
khntr85- Im sure I probably missed it somewhere, but what wheel are you using if you don't mind me asking? We use CBN wheels but the last one we had re-coated didn't last as long as we think it should have. Wouldn't mind trying a different type as long as it grinds plenty fast, doesn't wear down too quick, makes a nice finish and doesn't constantly gum up and try to burn the cutters. Looks like what you are using is working well.
Hello no problem my friend....I currently use CBN wheels mostly, but I also still use my stone wheels.....I know this will sound strange, but it really just depends on my mood....I used to use the stone wheels on really bad chains to save some life in my CBN wheel...but since I have already paid for the wheels by grinding some local guys chains, I have been using the CBN wheel for about everything lately.....I have 2-wheels, one for .325 and one for 3/8....
I got my CBN wheels form diamond wheel company......where do you get your CBN wheels, and how long did they last before you got the recoated.....did you ever dress your wheels with the white stones, it is supposed to clean the wheel.....I got one included with each whee when I bought them.....you can still burn cutters with CBN wheels, just have to use the tap method....
Ok, this wheel is a Radiac and I may have been mistaken as this may have been a new wheel and not re-coated. I may have gotten that mixed up with one of our other cbn's. We do clean the grit with a white oxide dressing stick. We haven't had any problem burning cutters but you can feel it's grinding slower and also see and feel the grit is starting to smooth out. It's still got some life left but I can tell it'll need replaced before too long. I'd say we've had this wheel for a year or so, not sure how many chains we've ground with it seems like this wheel just didn't last as long as it should have. I may look into a CBN from diamond wheel company once this one quits and see how it does. Thanks for the info.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35112/IMG_20170404_092110365_HDR~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1491315929)
Now I don't know what kind of whee you have excactly, but I do know on the instruction sheet with my CBN whee it said to never do carbide gains with my wheel....I wonder if it's possible that ou have a wheel for doing the carbide wheels mixed in....it would definitely cause cutting issues....
Also what kind of grinders do you guys use/have.....
khntr85- This wheel is a Radiac brand CBN wheel, I believe to be an 80 grit as it says "B80" on the side. It has done a good job of sharpening chains but my only concern with it is it seems to have started to wear out sooner than normal, maybe just didn't have enough grit. I'll probably just try a different brand such as the brand you or OH logger mentioned next time to compare. Our chain grinder is a Foley.
Thanks for the info :)
Quote from: Woodcutter_Mo on April 05, 2017, 10:40:26 AM
khntr85- This wheel is a Radiac brand CBN wheel, I believe to be an 80 grit as it says "B80" on the side. It has done a good job of sharpening chains but my only concern with it is it seems to have started to wear out sooner than normal, maybe just didn't have enough grit. I'll probably just try a different brand such as the brand you or OH logger mentioned next time to compare. Our chain grinder is a Foley.
Thanks for the info :)
Oh I see....if you don't mind me asking, where did you get it and how long have you had it....I can see the wear on it...
Quote from: khntr85 on April 05, 2017, 12:27:49 PM
Quote from: Woodcutter_Mo on April 05, 2017, 10:40:26 AM
khntr85- This wheel is a Radiac brand CBN wheel, I believe to be an 80 grit as it says "B80" on the side. It has done a good job of sharpening chains but my only concern with it is it seems to have started to wear out sooner than normal, maybe just didn't have enough grit. I'll probably just try a different brand such as the brand you or OH logger mentioned next time to compare. Our chain grinder is a Foley.
Thanks for the info :)
Oh I see....if you don't mind me asking, where did you get it and how long have you had it....I can see the wear on it...
I believe we got it from Radiac. We've had it for right at a year and I doubt we've sharpened more than 50 chains with that wheel, although some were prety badly rock chipped chains.
Quote from: Woodcutter_Mo on April 05, 2017, 01:45:40 PM
Quote from: khntr85 on April 05, 2017, 12:27:49 PM
Quote from: Woodcutter_Mo on April 05, 2017, 10:40:26 AM
khntr85- This wheel is a Radiac brand CBN wheel, I believe to be an 80 grit as it says "B80" on the side. It has done a good job of sharpening chains but my only concern with it is it seems to have started to wear out sooner than normal, maybe just didn't have enough grit. I'll probably just try a different brand such as the brand you or OH logger mentioned next time to compare. Our chain grinder is a Foley.
Thanks for the info :)
Oh I see....if you don't mind me asking, where did you get it and how long have you had it....I can see the wear on it...
I believe we got it from Radiac. We've had it for right at a year and I doubt we've sharpened more than 50 chains with that wheel, although some were prety badly rock chipped chains.
I see....I have only ever used the CBN whee I have from diamond brand, so I don't have anything to compare to....I just seen that a lot of guys that grind a lot of chains in volume seem to use the kind I got....I am sure there are better ones made somewere l, you know how that goes....
Ok here is a .325 Stihl RM I did last night with the CBN wheel....I have not done the rakers yet...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43305/IMG_2335~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1491469091)
So I cut down a few silver maples in the back yard that are blocking sun to my raspberry/blackberry patch.....wow it always amazes me how easy these soft woods are to cut....I always cut hardwoods so this was easy cutting....I used my 026 with a 18" bar....the chain is Oregon full-chisel....I sharpened the chain at 25-55-10....I didn't get a pic of the chain but I did get a pic of the wood chips....
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43305/IMG_2329~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1491469094)
So any one got any more pics of chains the have hand sharpened or ground....
I may grind one of my spare chains later this week, if so I'll get a pic of a ground chain.
Cool, good deal...
What all grinders do you guys have....I only have the Oregon 520.....
Have you ever played with square grinding....I haven't ever tried it...
Quote from: khntr85 on April 12, 2017, 08:26:56 AM
Cool, good deal...
What all grinders do you guys have....I only have the Oregon 520.....
Have you ever played with square grinding....I haven't ever tried it...
Our grinder is a Foley, I'll have to check the model. It's an older model. No havnt done any square grinding on chains that I can remember. In fact, most of them we have done so far have been smaller home owner chains.
Edit: The chain grinder we use is a Foley 308
I didn't get around to grinding any chains this week, got backed up on a bunch of other stuff..
But here's a couple pics of our chain grinder.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35112/IMG_20170414_081643937_HDR.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1492176412)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35112/IMG_20170414_081732873~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1492176571)
Quote from: Woodcutter_Mo on April 14, 2017, 09:30:11 AM
I didn't get around to grinding any chains this week, got backed up on a bunch of other stuff..
But here's a couple pics of our chain grinder.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35112/IMG_20170414_081643937_HDR.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1492176412)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35112/IMG_20170414_081732873~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1492176571)
That thing is built like a tank....do you guys have a saw shop???
Quote from: khntr85 on April 15, 2017, 12:07:45 PM
Quote from: Woodcutter_Mo on April 14, 2017, 09:30:11 AM
I didn't get around to grinding any chains this week, got backed up on a bunch of other stuff..
But here's a couple pics of our chain grinder.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35112/IMG_20170414_081643937_HDR.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1492176412)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35112/IMG_20170414_081732873~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1492176571)
That thing is built like a tank....do you guys have a saw shop???
Yea it probably lacks some of the bells and whistles of newer grinders but it's definatly built well and there's hardly any plastic on it :o. I'd think as it sits, it may be more limited to what chains you can grind but normal common every day chains it seems to do a good job.
We have a sharpening service, we do mostly carbide tipped circular saws and chipper knives ect but had alot of people asking about chains so we brought that grinder in.
Very cool!!!
Nothing wrong with that grinder, will probably outlast any new style grinders
Ok guys common now, I know all you guys file or grind your chains....let's see some pictures guys!!!
Ok khntr85, here's a few pics. Not filing the cutters but filing the drive links :D
The most neglected part of a sawchain is the drive links. After normal wear the hook in the leading part of the drive links wears down and the transfer of oil for lubrication and the clearing of wood chips in the bar groove is diminished greatly.
End result is rapid wear of bar and chain, extra heat, binding in the cut and lost cutting efficiency. Look at the last picture and see the comparison between the drive link I filed and the others from normal wear.
Oh and notice my hand filed angles on the cutters with just a touch off the depth gauges :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20170504_092900.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1493909845)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20170504_092213.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1493909923)
Wouldn't be a complete comparison without a pic of new drive links
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20170504_110145.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1493914963)
:D File or grind,the 64 thousand dollar question with more opinions than the oil wars . I file myself,always have .Some people can't and grind .Simple as that .Methods don't matter, results do .
BTW I do have Dremel and stones .Sure is faster than trying to file a rocked out chain . Wood yes,rocks and metal no .
Still haven't had time to get one of my chains on the grinder but this is my most recent free-hand filing on the 372xp.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35112/IMG_20170505_191811344_HDR~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1494030787)
Quote from: HolmenTree on May 04, 2017, 10:59:37 AM
Ok khntr85, here's a few pics. Not filing the cutters but filing the drive links :D
The most neglected part of a sawchain is the drive links. After normal wear the hook in the leading part of the drive links wears down and the transfer of oil for lubrication and the clearing of wood chips in the bar groove is diminished greatly.
End result is rapid wear of bar and chain, extra heat, binding in the cut and lost cutting efficiency. Look at the last picture and see the comparison between the drive link I filed and the others from normal wear.
Oh and notice my hand filed angles on the cutters with just a touch off the depth gauges :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20170504_092900.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1493909845)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20170504_092213.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1493909923)
You sir are a wealth of information!!!
Everything you posted looks great...how often do you check and re-dress the bottom drive links's???
Thanks a lot for posting....this is a informative thread, and you post great stuff!!!
Quote from: Al_Smith on May 04, 2017, 04:46:02 PM
:D File or grind,the 64 thousand dollar question with more opinions than the oil wars . I file myself,always have .Some people can't and grind .Simple as that .Methods don't matter, results do .
BTW I do have Dremel and stones .Sure is faster than trying to file a rocked out chain . Wood yes,rocks and metal no .
Wrong thread sir, this isn't a debate in which is better....it has been LONG established a fella can get great results either way...
Guys this is a great place to post pics if you need help getting your chains cutting right...take advantage of these guys that are willing to help...some of these guys have been in the business 30-40 years!!!
If you get a chance get some pics of your chains next time you sharpen!!!
Quote from: Woodcutter_Mo on May 05, 2017, 08:35:21 PM
Still haven't had time to get one of my chains on the grinder but this is my most recent free-hand filing on the 372xp.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35112/IMG_20170505_191811344_HDR~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1494030787)
Looks like that will be a good cutting chain!!
Quote from: HolmenTree on May 04, 2017, 12:24:00 PM
Wouldn't be a complete comparison without a pic of new drive links
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20170504_110145.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1493914963)
Wow look at the cutter face and profile of the cutter....you can see that it isn't that steep....also notice that there isn't a big "C" shape, like alot of us strive to get.....
It is easy for us guys that grind/hand file our own chains to try and get more of a "hook"....we have to remember that the more hook or the "sharper" it is, the weaker the cutting edge becomes...there is a fine line of a sharp chain and a durable chain!!
As a guy told me one time, think of the cutter teeth as a wood chisel!!!
Quote from: khntr85 on May 06, 2017, 08:32:56 AM
Quote from: HolmenTree on May 04, 2017, 10:59:37 AM
Ok khntr85, here's a few pics. Not filing the cutters but filing the drive links :D
The most neglected part of a sawchain is the drive links. After normal wear the hook in the leading part of the drive links wears down and the transfer of oil for lubrication and the clearing of wood chips in the bar groove is diminished greatly.
End result is rapid wear of bar and chain, extra heat, binding in the cut and lost cutting efficiency. Look at the last picture and see the comparison between the drive link I filed and the others from normal wear.
Oh and notice my hand filed angles on the cutters with just a touch off the depth gauges :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20170504_092900.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1493909845)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20170504_092213.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1493909923)
You sir are a wealth of information!!!
Everything you posted looks great...how often do you check and re-dress the bottom drive links's???
Thanks a lot for posting....this is a informative thread, and you post great stuff!!!
Thanks and your welcome khntr85 ,
I try to at least re dress the links hooks when the chain gets filed back half ways or more.
But as I'm a small business owner operator most times I don't have the time and the loop gets hung up on a nail on the wall. :D
Quote from: khntr85 on May 06, 2017, 08:35:46 AM
Quote from: Al_Smith on May 04, 2017, 04:46:02 PM
:D File or grind,the 64 thousand dollar question with more opinions than the oil wars . I file myself,always have .Some people can't and grind .Simple as that .Methods don't matter, results do .
BTW I do have Dremel and stones .Sure is faster than trying to file a rocked out chain . Wood yes,rocks and metal no .
Wrong thread sir, this isn't a debate in which is better....it has been LONG established a fella can get great results either way...
Guys this is a great place to post pics if you need help getting your chains cutting right...take advantage of these guys that are willing to help...some of these guys have been in the business 30-40 years!!!
If you get a chance get some pics of your chains next time you sharpen!!!
Excuse me .I thought the thread was about filing or grinding.Read my reply again I never implied one was better than the other .Fact did I not say in essence whatever works ? For me filing works ,simple as that .For your information I'm nearly 70 years old myself and have done this stuff for a good long while .
Quote from: Al_Smith on May 06, 2017, 04:16:03 PM
Quote from: khntr85 on May 06, 2017, 08:35:46 AM
Quote from: Al_Smith on May 04, 2017, 04:46:02 PM
:D File or grind,the 64 thousand dollar question with more opinions than the oil wars . I file myself,always have .Some people can't and grind .Simple as that .Methods don't matter, results do .
BTW I do have Dremel and stones .Sure is faster than trying to file a rocked out chain . Wood yes,rocks and metal no .
Wrong thread sir, this isn't a debate in which is better....it has been LONG established a fella can get great results either way...
Guys this is a great place to post pics if you need help getting your chains cutting right...take advantage of these guys that are willing to help...some of these guys have been in the business 30-40 years!!!
If you get a chance get some pics of your chains next time you sharpen!!!
Excuse me .I thought the thread was about filing or grinding.Read my reply again I never implied one was better than the other .Fact did I not say in essence whatever works ? For me filing works ,simple as that .For your information I'm nearly 70 years old myself and have done this stuff for a good long while .
10-4, I look forward to all the tips and tricks you have learned over 70 years, thank you sir!!!
:D I didn't say I came out of the womb nearly 70 years ago running a chainsaw .Although my dad said I had a wrench in one hand and a set of micrometers in the other, my mother disagrees .
There isn't a trick to it on a work chain .Just file at whatever degree it supposed to be ,usually 30 .10 up on Oregon and Stihl,straight on Carlton .Use a guide some times which sets the hook so it isn't "beaked " .Use a second pass ,every so often with no guide and take the gullet clear down to the tie strap so it carries a bigger chip load before it rocks out of the cut .
Now a race chain is a horse of a different color .My method takes a long while with 4 different types of files and isn't what this thread is about .So that ends that discussion .
Ok got some beat up chains yesterday....I did some of this guys chains last week, and he really liked the way they cut....you can see in the second picture I sharpened one cutter, then took a pic...I had to grind al bus chains a little deep as the gullets were all in horrendous shape....every chain this guys brings looks like this, he cuts fence rows with a farmer, so they just swap out chains LOL!!!
It's easy to see why so many people burn up saws....then they blame the mix, brand, anything but their own ignorance!!!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43305/IMG_2464.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1494404661)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43305/IMG_2467.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1494404661)
Hummm.... That looks like some of my chains...
Quote from: Kbeitz on May 11, 2017, 08:04:34 PM
Hummm.... That looks like some of my chains...
I will say it's shocking how long guys run dull chains...these are the guys that Burn threw wood, and when their saw burns up they blame the 50:1 mix, idiots!!
This is just a touch up on one of my old previously hand filed 024 chains done on the grinder
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35112/IMG_20170516_133930708.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1494960019)
I found this old chain I filed up in 1988 for a competition I entered on Vancouver Island in B.C.
Cutting 16" round wet cottonwood with my stock appearing Stihl 064AV. Competiting against guys like Ron Hartill, Brian Herlihy, Ed Braun, Carl Bischoff.
Chain has been banging around the shop for the last 29 years, cutting edge is dinged up but still shows my angles with the "beak" on the working corner. No stoning, no Lo pro chassis or dog boning. Very fast for 3 cuts in the wet cottonwood.
7 time world lumberjack champion Ron Hartill took first with his 100cc 655 Poulan Pro
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20170515_204255.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1494965434)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20170515_204514.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1494965375)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20170515_195421.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1494965338)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20170515_195706.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1494965297)
i sure wish I knew how to chisel file. the people that know how say that's the only way to go!!
Quote from: Woodcutter_Mo on May 16, 2017, 02:41:16 PM
This is just a touch up on one of my old previously hand filed 024 chains done on the grinder
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35112/IMG_20170516_133930708.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1494960019)
Looks good man....what grinder are you using agian!!!
Quote from: HolmenTree on May 16, 2017, 04:16:22 PM
I found this old chain I filed up in 1988 for a competition I entered on Vancouver Island in B.C.
Cutting 16" round wet cottonwood with my stock appearing Stihl 064AV. Competiting against guys like Ron Hartill, Brian Herlihy, Ed Braun, Carl Bischoff.
Chain has been banging around the shop for the last 29 years, cutting edge is dinged up but still shows my angles with the "beak" on the working corner. No stoning, no Lo pro chassis or dog boning. Very fast for 3 cuts in the wet cottonwood.
7 time world lumberjack champion Ron Hartill took first with his 100cc 655 Poulan Pro
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20170515_204255.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1494965434)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20170515_204514.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1494965375)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20170515_195421.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1494965338)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20170515_195706.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1494965297)
Wow you sir are a wealth of info....how sweet a 30-year old chain!!!
This is great info, I love it!!!!
Quote from: OH logger on May 16, 2017, 08:16:13 PM
i sure wish I knew how to chisel file. the people that know how say that's the only way to go!!
Oh and I am looking forward to a detailed report on that ms261cm LOL!!!
Quote from: khntr85 on May 18, 2017, 03:39:00 PM
Quote from: Woodcutter_Mo on May 16, 2017, 02:41:16 PM
This is just a touch up on one of my old previously hand filed 024 chains done on the grinder
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35112/IMG_20170516_133930708.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1494960019)
Looks good man....what grinder are you using agian!!!
Thanks. That was done on the old Foley grinder. Chain is cutting real good.
Quote from: khntr85 on May 18, 2017, 03:47:36 PM
Quote from: OH logger on May 16, 2017, 08:16:13 PM
i sure wish I knew how to chisel file. the people that know how say that's the only way to go!!
Oh and I am looking forward to a detailed report on that ms261cm LOL!!!
khntr85, the MS261CM report will have to wait. Two days ago my dealer sales lady lied and said it will be in over might to seal the deal.
Just found out I won't see it from the Alberta distributer for at least 1 to 2 weeks. My lot clearing contract starts in 2 days. So tomorrow I'm going to have to buy one of her shiny new 550XPs at her cost price......
Will have a report on the MS261CM in a few weeks hopefully.... >:(
Quote from: HolmenTree on May 18, 2017, 08:35:51 PM
Quote from: khntr85 on May 18, 2017, 03:47:36 PM
Quote from: OH logger on May 16, 2017, 08:16:13 PM
i sure wish I knew how to chisel file. the people that know how say that's the only way to go!!
Oh and I am looking forward to a detailed report on that ms261cm LOL!!!
khntr85, the MS261CM report will have to wait. Two days ago my dealer sales lady lied and said it will be in over might to seal the deal.
Just found out I won't see it from the Alberta distributer for at least 1 to 2 weeks. My lot clearing contract starts in 2 days. So tomorrow I'm going to have to buy one of her shiny new 550XPs at her cost price......
Will have a report on the MS261CM in a few weeks hopefully.... >:(
Hey sorry to hear that!!!
Oh well atleast you are getting a good saw at a good price...do you like the 550 a lot!!!!
On that square filed,it is faster but those who live in north Ohio remember it's nearly all hard woods.It will dull faster .
In my case most I cut are standing dead,fact of late most are dead ash trees which are really hard .As it is usually it's round filed chisel and it takes a trip around with the file about every tank of fuel .It takes about 5 minutes with a file on a 20" loop .Were it chisel just a touch up for me would be half an hour .
Couple years ago at one of our GTG's a guy who went by "Bush Weasel" attended .He was a feller from Idaho .He had a stand mounted Silvery grinder he ran from a static invertor from his pick up truck .They don't file square,they grind .It didn't take him very long with that grinder .
Quote from: Al_Smith on May 19, 2017, 06:59:45 AM
On that square filed,it is faster but those who live in north Ohio remember it's nearly all hard woods.It will dull faster .
In my case most I cut are standing dead,fact of late most are dead ash trees which are really hard .As it is usually it's round filed chisel and it takes a trip around with the file about every tank of fuel .It takes about 5 minutes with a file on a 20" loop .Were it chisel just a touch up for me would be half an hour .
Couple years ago at one of our GTG's a guy who went by "Bush Weasel" attended .He was a feller from Idaho .He had a stand mounted Silvery grinder he ran from a static invertor from his pick up truck .They don't file square,they grind .It didn't take him very long with that grinder .
Wow that is pretty wild about the grinder, saves them a lot of time I bet!!!
I will try square filing eventually, I just don't have the time to mess with it right now....like you stated AL, since here in Indiana I am in the hardwood like you are in Ohio....
I have heard some argue that the square chisel holds up about like the round filed/ground chisel....it just seems hard to believe the square would hold up in hickory, locust, and Osage....
What is our preferred file to use when you file the square chains????
Quote from: khntr85 on May 19, 2017, 08:56:50 AM
Quote from: Al_Smith on May 19, 2017, 06:59:45 AM
On that square filed,it is faster but those who live in north Ohio remember it's nearly all hard woods.It will dull faster .
In my case most I cut are standing dead,fact of late most are dead ash trees which are really hard .As it is usually it's round filed chisel and it takes a trip around with the file about every tank of fuel .It takes about 5 minutes with a file on a 20" loop .Were it chisel just a touch up for me would be half an hour .
Couple years ago at one of our GTG's a guy who went by "Bush Weasel" attended .He was a feller from Idaho .He had a stand mounted Silvery grinder he ran from a static invertor from his pick up truck .They don't file square,they grind .It didn't take him very long with that grinder .
Wow that is pretty wild about the grinder, saves them a lot of time I bet!!!
I will try square filing eventually, I just don't have the time to mess with it right now....like you stated AL, since here in Indiana I am in the hardwood like you are in Ohio....
I have heard some argue that the square chisel holds up about like the round filed/ground chisel....it just seems hard to believe the square would hold up in hickory, locust, and Osage....
What is our preferred file to use when you file the square chains????
Chisel bit chain has no roots in the hardwood industry. Development basically revolved around the huge old growth softwood industry of the PNW.
When the cutter design was introduced in the 1950s a file was about all you had to sharpen them with.
Grinders got popular in the mid 1960s as alot of timber fallers would touch them up with the file 3-4 times per day then have the camp saw filer grind the proper profile back.
In my opinion hand filed square chisel bit is as durable or better then the round filed chain. But a chisel bit is not if ground with a grinder.
Reason is a grinding wheel is curved and the chisel surface is not perfectly flat. A file is flat, but practice and experience with a smooth straight stroke with the hand is paramount. If your grinder wheel was 20 inch in diameter then a flat chisel bit would be more flat.
Same as a carpenters chisel needs to be sharpened on a flat stone .
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20170515_195706.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1494965297)
To add to my above post.
As the pic of my race chain I modified in 1988 shows. I built it for a PNW speed bucking competition involving making 3 cuts through a machine turned very fresh wet cottonwood log of 16 inches in diameter.
I tunnelled (thinned the underside of the top and side plate, removed some of the back of the cutter. Removed the safety ramp alongside the depth gauge. Filed down the top of the drive links and tapered off the edges for more clearance and better chip flow. Filed the inside of the depth gauge ahead for a larger gullet to collect chips.
You'll notice no dog boning out the chassis and the cutters cutting edge is further ahead of the rear rivet then normally done for larger diameter drier wood. The log I cut was 16" spongy wet cottonwood so I left the depth gauges new and high at about .010 because when cutting the depth gauge would sink in about .015-.020 into the softwood. I was running a 7 tooth rim sprocket on my 064AV. No AV though as I replaced the rubber mounts with homemade solid aluminum ones.
Now you may ask why I didn't flatten the rivets and leave such a long cutter. Well I feel you need enough cutter and rivets to help clear the wood chips out of the log kerf. A cutter left wilth little structure will only jam up with chips especially big wet ones . Like a fan blade on a chipper wheel , blows the chips out the spout for the knives to properly cut.
I sharpened this chain with Windsor triangle chisel bit files mounted in a 1970's Granberg bar mount filing jig especially designed to hold these triangle files.
The chain was held by the drive links between 2 thin stainless steel plates clamped in a thin jaw carpenters crosscut saw sharpening vise. The jig was mounted like on a bar and the thin vise jaws allowed clearance for the steep file angles. Plus the chain was held solidly. The slide bushings on that jig weren't sloppy at all . Good quality back in the 1970's.
Here's the pic of my last dozen of my favorite chisel bit files, no longer available for decades. Quality second to none, you can eye ball down the length of the file's tooth corners ....all perfectly straight.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20170519_084615.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1495205107)
Yes indeed square is a PNW thing .I have maybe 3 loops of factory square and several of self filed race chain which quit frankly would not work well on the hard as a rock stuff I usually cut .I use a multi bevel file on the rare occasion any of them need a touch up which is seldom simply because I don't use them much .I'm not real fond of filing square although it does okay it just takes me forever .It's just a regional thing I guess.
Quote from: HolmenTree on May 19, 2017, 10:46:29 AM
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20170515_195706.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1494965297)
To add to my above post.
As the pic of my race chain I modified in 1988 shows. I built it for a PNW speed bucking competition involving making 3 cuts through a machine turned very fresh wet cottonwood log of 16 inches in diameter.
I tunnelled (thinned the underside of the top and side plate, removed some of the back of the cutter. Removed the safety ramp alongside the depth gauge. Filed down the top of the drive links and tapered off the edges for more clearance and better chip flow. Filed the inside of the depth gauge ahead for a larger gullet to collect chips.
You'll notice no dog boning out the chassis and the cutters cutting edge is further ahead of the rear rivet then normally done for larger diameter drier wood. The log I cut was 16" spongy wet cottonwood so I left the depth gauges new and high at about .010 because when cutting the depth gauge would sink in about .015-.020 into the softwood. I was running a 7 tooth rim sprocket on my 064AV. No AV though as I replaced the rubber mounts with homemade solid aluminum ones.
Now you may ask why I didn't flatten the rivets and leave such a long cutter. Well I feel you need enough cutter and rivets to help clear the wood chips out of the log kerf. A cutter left wilth little structure will only jam up with chips especially big wet ones . Like a fan blade on a chipper wheel , blows the chips out the spout for the knives to properly cut.
I sharpened this chain with Windsor triangle chisel bit files mounted in a 1970's Granberg bar mount filing jig especially designed to hold these triangle files.
The chain was held by the drive links between 2 thin stainless steel plates clamped in a thin jaw carpenters crosscut saw sharpening vise. The jig was mounted like on a bar and the thin vise jaws allowed clearance for the steep file angles. Plus the chain was held solidly. The slide bushings on that jig weren't sloppy at all . Good quality back in the 1970's.
Here's the pic of my last dozen of my favorite chisel bit files, no longer available for decades. Quality second to none, you can eye ball down the length of the tooth corners ....all perfectly straight.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/20170519_084615.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1495205107)
Wow flat out GREAT stuff!!!
Love hearing these stories and seeing the pics...we have zero chainsaw races around my area, wish we did!!
Quote from: HolmenTree on May 18, 2017, 08:35:51 PM
Quote from: khntr85 on May 18, 2017, 03:47:36 PM
Quote from: OH logger on May 16, 2017, 08:16:13 PM
i sure wish I knew how to chisel file. the people that know how say that's the only way to go!!
Oh and I am looking forward to a detailed report on that ms261cm LOL!!!
khntr85, the MS261CM report will have to wait. Two days ago my dealer sales lady lied and said it will be in over might to seal the deal.
Just found out I won't see it from the Alberta distributer for at least 1 to 2 weeks. My lot clearing contract starts in 2 days. So tomorrow I'm going to have to buy one of her shiny new 550XPs at her cost price......
Will have a report on the MS261CM in a few weeks hopefully.... >:(
First thing this morning (Fri May 19) I bought a new 550XP and the sales lady Christine who ordered the MS261CM just switched invoices on the 2 saws as they are both the same price. So this afternoon as I was doing some running around and finally got on the road.
I was about 2 hours into the drive to my job, I decided to stop when I got within cell service and I called my office phone voice mail.
I have a message from the saleslady Christine. She says "Willard it's 11:35am, guess whats sitting on my desk".
I phoned her back immediately and apologized profusely. I told her if the 261 is not sold when I get back in 4 days I'll pay any price for that saw you want :D
She laughed then answered "I told you I could get that saw in for you in under 2 days!
Hey that sure is great!!!
I really do look forward to your review/opinions on the saw....I by no means know you, but it's obvious to me you are the type of guy to give something an honest review, plus you are out there actually using the saw daily, now waxing it in the garage LOL!!!!
Edit
Quote from: Al_Smith on May 19, 2017, 07:13:00 PM
Yes indeed square is a PNW thing .I have maybe 3 loops of factory square and several of self filed race chain which quit frankly would not work well on the hard as a rock stuff I usually cut .I use a multi bevel file on the rare occasion any of them need a touch up which is seldom simply because I don't use them much .I'm not real fond of filing square although it does okay it just takes me forever .It's just a regional thing I guess.
Hey al, I see you are in Ohio, have you heard of any kind of saw GTG in Indiana...I have never been to a saw race or any saw related event....
I only have 3-acres were I live, but I have thought about have some saw guys over....the thing is most guys around here just look at saws for work, only way to get them over would be offer free food or beer LMAO!!!
I have no idea where a GTG in Indiana might be held .That kind of activity comes and goes depending on the interest and usually is early fall .
As far as actual racing events two I know of in the tri states are Chardon Ohio which is in April and the Paul Bunyan show in I think Cambridge Ohio in the fall .Both of these are top level events with real good operators from all over the place .I've ran at both,didn't do so good but enjoyed it just the same .
Quote from: Al_Smith on May 20, 2017, 04:58:47 AM
I have no idea where a GTG in Indiana might be held .That kind of activity comes and goes depending on the interest and usually is early fall .
As far as actual racing events two I know of in the tri states are Chardon Ohio which is in April and the Paul Bunyan show in I think Cambridge Ohio in the fall .Both of these are top level events with real good operators from all over the place .I've ran at both,didn't do so good but enjoyed it just the same .
Good deal, I was just wondering if you ever heard of any Indiana events, thanks for mentioning the Ohio ones....
I would like to go to one of the "big" events, I would love to eat a glimpse of those guys chains!!!
Nipped a rock with the 24" 372xp chain today :-X, I'll get a pic of it hand filed tomorrow. I'm using the Husq roller guide since I'll be removing so much metal from all the cutters.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35112/IMG_20170521_150755147.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1495420785)
Takes me about 3-4 filings to get it back to where it was before the rock. I don't try to get it all at one time.
Here's my finished file job on my 372xp chain done with the roller guide, I went ahead and got all the rock chips out. When I hand file I generally like to cut them just a little deeper but this'll give me a good starting point for the next sharpening.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35112/IMG_20170522_130427466_TOP.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1495476429)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35112/IMG_20170522_130435497.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1495476549)
Holmen, What are the benefits of square filing vs round? I am falling primarily dead Doug Fir and Western Tamarack. Being in the PNW I would hate not be up to speed!
Just read back a page and realized you already covered the topic. Thanks!
Quote from: JRWoodchuck on May 26, 2017, 03:52:49 PM
Holmen, What are the benefits of square filing vs round? I am falling primarily dead Doug Fir and Western Tamarack. Being in the PNW I would hate not be up to speed!
Quote from: JRWoodchuck on May 26, 2017, 03:57:50 PM
Just read back a page and realized you already covered the topic. Thanks!
I can add a bit more benifits.
Ideally square chisel bit chain is highly recommended for felling green oversized softwood.
Dead Dug fir and tamarack (larch) I'd recommend using a round file because you'll need it to touch up
your chain frequently throughout the work day.
My experiences with square chisel bit is for competition race chain and chainsaw milling clean logs, mostly spruce.
Ok guys I am going to post 2-pictures....first pic is A...second pic is B....
One of thes pics I hand filed, and one pic I used the grinder....see if you can tell which one is which...I will tell the answer after everyone had a chance to guess!
Pic A
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43305/IMG_2604.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1497148120)
Pic B
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43305/IMG_2605.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1497148122)
Filed cutter is B.
For a second I was wondering what you did to pic A's depth gauge, hiding it behind the safety ramp. :D
Quote from: HolmenTree on June 11, 2017, 04:04:31 AM
Filed cutter is B.
That would be my guess as well.
Maybe it's just the angle at which the picture was taken (the two photos are slightly different), but A looks like it has a bit more beak than I like on my chains (not that that is necessarily an indicator of hand-filed vs ground). I do cut with a guy who intentionally puts more of a beak or hook on his chains, and that would likely be more up his alley.
Grinder A, hand file B is my guess as well. Just judging by the slight flatness towards the top of the hook on pic A, whereas the cutter in pic B has a bit more uniform roundness to the hook.
All you guys are right!!!
The top is ground bottom is hand filed...the top pic is an optical illusion with the safteyty chain...
Recently took up the black magic task of square filing just for fun. I'm getting there I think, freehand is a little more difficult when square filing.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/40531/IMG_0775.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1498469425)
Ok guys I bought a used Stihl usg a few weeks ago....these are great grinders built like a tank...
Here is RM safety chain I sharpened on the USG...I dont throw out safety chains like some guys do...they are perfect for stumping or using when wood may have metal in it!!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43305/IMG_2736.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1498651471)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43305/IMG_2738.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1498651472)
Ok guysbhere is a prime example of why I keep safety chains and use them in wood that may contain foreign materials....I was noodling some huge em pieces and hit something hard....
Here are pics of the damage...the last pic is after I fixed the chains...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43305/IMG_2694.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1498651469)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43305/IMG_2693.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1498651469)
Ok here is the chain after I ground we back into shape...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43305/IMG_2695.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1498651471)
Speaking of square filed chain I tried my hand at converting a round filed chain to a square file...I have 2-loops of Oregon square chain now so it will be a lot easier to follow the factory grind...I still haven't ran any of the square chain, but I am anxious to try them...
Anyway here is my first ever attempt at turning a round filed chain into a square filed chain...and yes this is an Oregon vanguard chain, and no i didn't gut the rakers....I was just seeing what it's like to square file!!!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43305/IMG_2664.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1498652639)
At long last I remembered taking a few pics before I started sawing wood and sand. (Tuff job being a sawchain less than a mile from the coast!)
And yes, I am running semi chisel. Full chisel would last only a few minutes.
Hand filed - a file takes less space in my pocket than a grinder, and I cut a mix of soft and hardwood, whatever people want removed. And hedges! :-(
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/DSCN4203.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1499548387)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/DSCN4202.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1499548387)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/DSCN4200.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1499548428)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/DSCN4204.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1499548401)
Quote from: sablatnic on July 08, 2017, 05:23:59 PM
At long last I remembered taking a few pics before I started sawing wood and sand. (Tuff job being a sawchain less than a mile from the coast!)
And yes, I am running semi chisel. Full chisel would last only a few minutes.
Hand filed - a file takes less space in my pocket than a grinder, and I cut a mix of soft and hardwood, whatever people want removed. And hedges! :-(
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/DSCN4203.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1499548387)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/DSCN4202.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1499548387)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/DSCN4200.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1499548428)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/DSCN4204.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1499548401)
Hey nice job man...
I got the snap a few pics of the semi-chisel chain I do on my usg grinder...the outside profile looks just like the first pic of the right hand cutter....
There is a fine line of to much gullet or to much beak...
hi there, anyone had those problems ,after I grind my chain, there is a burr on top of the cutter that does not go away while sawing, also after its been ground a file just slide on the tooth like it was glass; the tooth is not burn blue;I use CBN wheel and clean it with the white stone;my grinder is a Super Joly Speed SharpAuto, what could I be doing wrong! thanks
Try cutting some harder wood? Can we see what your talking about?
Quote from: clairmont on October 27, 2017, 10:13:58 PM
hi there, anyone had those problems ,after I grind my chain, there is a burr on top of the cutter that does not go away while sawing, also after its been ground a file just slide on the tooth like it was glass; the tooth is not burn blue;I use CBN wheel and clean it with the white stone;my grinder is a Super Joly Speed SharpAuto, what could I be doing wrong! thanks
I had a few chains in my past that had the odd link as hard as glass right from the factory (Woodland Pro/Carlton or Total). If it happens only after you've ground it, the hand file sliding like glass is because you overheated your tooth when grinding. Even if you can't see a color change, you have overheated it. The alloy that most chains are made of is one that will "air-harden": that is, if it's heated up to a high enough point, it will quench in air (rather than requiring a dip in water or oil to quench it). It will be especially noticeable on smaller parts and thin, sharp corners - like the cutting edge of your chain.
Often it's just a very thin shell on the tip of the cutting edge. You won't see the whole tooth glowing, because it's just being overheated at that thin micro-edge (in fact, the body of the chain might be acting like a quench medium and drawing heat out from the cutting edge so fast that it helps to harden the edge.)
Someone who does more grinder sharpening than I can describe this better, but you need to use a very light, intermittent touch on the grinder. Think zzt-pause-zzt-pause barely touching the tooth, rather than a longer bzzzzzzzzzzt. If the wheel is clean, as you say, it's possible a longer cut and/or to high a pressure on the tooth when grinding is causing this (again, I'll defer to the guys who do a whole lot more grinding than I do.)
One addition to the comment I made above:
Once you have hardened a tooth by overheating, you can ruin a whole lot of hand files trying to file through that hardened spot. IMO, the best way to get past this is to put it back on the grinder and re-sharpen using the proper technique.
Quote from: John Mc on October 28, 2017, 07:41:17 AM
Quote from: clairmont on October 27, 2017, 10:13:58 PM
hi there, anyone had those problems ,after I grind my chain, there is a burr on top of the cutter that does not go away while sawing, also after its been ground a file just slide on the tooth like it was glass; the tooth is not burn blue;I use CBN wheel and clean it with the white stone;my grinder is a Super Joly Speed SharpAuto, what could I be doing wrong! thanks
I had a few chains in my past that had the odd link as hard as glass right from the factory (Woodland Pro/Carlton or Total). If it happens only after you've ground it, the hand file sliding like glass is because you overheated your tooth when grinding. Even if you can't see a color change, you have overheated it. The alloy that most chains are made of is one that will "air-harden": that is, if it's heated up to a high enough point, it will quench in air (rather than requiring a dip in water or oil to quench it). It will be especially noticeable on smaller parts and thin, sharp corners - like the cutting edge of your chain.
Often it's just a very thin shell on the tip of the cutting edge. You won't see the whole tooth glowing, because it's just being overheated at that thin micro-edge (in fact, the body of the chain might be acting like a quench medium and drawing heat out from the cutting edge so fast that it helps to harden the edge.)
Someone who does more grinder sharpening than I can describe this better, but you need to use a very light, intermittent touch on the grinder. Think zzt-pause-zzt-pause barely touching the tooth, rather than a longer bzzzzzzzzzzt. If the wheel is clean, as you say, it's possible a longer cut and/or to high a pressure on the tooth when grinding is causing this (again, I'll defer to the guys who do a whole lot more grinding than I do.)
I use a file and a grinder both a lot....it's easy for me to file a chain I have previously ground...
Like you said some of these guys use the grinder like a chop saw,!idiots!!!!
The machine is only as good as the operator and a lot just don't care....
These guys at some shops don't even use chainsaws, so how in the world do people think they will/can do a good job??
Quote from: sablatnic on July 08, 2017, 05:23:59 PM
At long last I remembered taking a few pics before I started sawing wood and sand. (Tuff job being a sawchain less than a mile from the coast!)
And yes, I am running semi chisel. Full chisel would last only a few minutes.
Hand filed - a file takes less space in my pocket than a grinder, and I cut a mix of soft and hardwood, whatever people want removed. And hedges! :-(
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/DSCN4203.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1499548387)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/DSCN4202.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1499548387)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/DSCN4200.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1499548428)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/DSCN4204.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1499548401)
A grinder in the pocket, how many times have you seen guys do this???
For sawlogs where the cuts need to be square or a few inches can cost me a downgrade, i use new chain and take care to handfile very conservatively and even. Once it starts going crooked it gets hung on my firewood chain nail. Im constantly bucking hollow mulch filled oaks, sometimes with rocks or iron, and cant keep up with a hand file on a 24" bar. I sharpen with a milwaukee 18v grinder and a 7" wheel. Its fast and works great. No matter how much i bugger a cutter tip, its a one second blip of the wheel and onto the next. Uses chain somewhat fast but my time costs more when i gotta hurry up and get home to grab kid off the bus or else.
Quote from: khntr85 on June 28, 2017, 08:27:24 AM
Speaking of square filed chain I tried my hand at converting a round filed chain to a square file...I have 2-loops of Oregon square chain now so it will be a lot easier to follow the factory grind...I still haven't ran any of the square chain, but I am anxious to try them...
Anyway here is my first ever attempt at turning a round filed chain into a square filed chain...and yes this is an Oregon vanguard chain, and no i didn't gut the rakers....I was just seeing what it's like to square file!!!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43305/IMG_2664.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1498652639)
If you look at your corner every square filed chain here has a beak or a low corner which is a weak corner they'll bend over in a few cuts. I run the stuff in both hard and softwoods out here in the PNW it's very common for a faller to run it exclusively where we can go up a bar length or up a cutter combo on a smaller lighter saw.
Not the best picture but you can see the corner.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47446/IMG_20170510_191615.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1517406627)(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47446/IMG_20170510_191636.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1517406617)(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47446/IMG_20170510_191752.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1517406540)(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47446/IMG_20170510_191700.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1517406557)