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General Forestry => Timber Framing/Log construction => Topic started by: tareece on February 06, 2017, 03:22:53 PM

Title: ok.. heres a quandary on a shop build
Post by: tareece on February 06, 2017, 03:22:53 PM
Hey all.
   I am coming back from a series of back injuries where i blew out 5 vertebre and had a severe injuries to both hips..

   Now getting past all the ouchs that u nice people will say.. i have a problem.
   I was getting close to finishing the floor on my shop build when this happened... but the floor and most framing wood have been un protected since May 2014.
   So, do i scrap the floor and repurchase all my lumber.. or can i use it?
   The floor( made of 3/4 untreated plywood) seems to be firm... but a couple of pieces have some upper "buckling"  or Seperation...
   Trust me... if it werent for the injuries.. this post and thread would be about a showplace success story...
    Any help is appreciated
   
   
Title: Re: ok.. heres a quandary on a shop build
Post by: Den-Den on February 06, 2017, 09:35:00 PM

Based on the information in your post, I suggest these priorities:
1.  Take care of your back
2.  Get the shop dried in
3.  Decide how many sheets of flooring need replacing
Title: Re: ok.. heres a quandary on a shop build
Post by: Brian_Weekley on February 06, 2017, 09:35:57 PM
Might help if you post some photos--not sure exactly what you mean.  Was the floor installed and exposed to traffic or weather or was the wood left outside and exposed and is waiting for installation?
Title: Re: ok.. heres a quandary on a shop build
Post by: tareece on March 23, 2017, 11:52:51 PM
Here are a couple of pics
These are some of the 2x4's I have... Look bad but were kept off of ground on lvl blocks... One was strong enough to use as lever to raise aone end of floor assembly up so I could put a block under it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43718/20170226_165820_zps7zmrgyps.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1490327161)

Here is the current floor... I've purchased another 3/4 in weathered treated 4x8 plywood..
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43718/20170226_144341_zpsvfkis3a7.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1490327183)
   At most I will lose 9 pieces of plywood... Plus 50 2x4s... Not a huge loss, but still $$$ I can use elsewhere.
Title: Re: ok.. heres a quandary on a shop build
Post by: Don P on March 24, 2017, 08:08:55 AM
Really, 2x4's aren't floor or even roof material when new unless the spans are tiny. a 2x6 blows out at 8' a 2x8 at 12' in southern pine. Call that a wall and tip it up on the new floor would be my guess.

Don't know if that is temporary but blocks have just about no strength on their sides, notice the 2x4 sag between support with no real load on the floor. Shops get very heavy very quick.
Title: Re: ok.. heres a quandary on a shop build
Post by: flyingparks on March 24, 2017, 10:26:14 AM
Agree with Don P. 2x4s are for interior walls. A good rule of thumb for spans is take have of the width of the nominal lumber and and at it to the total width and that gives you your max span in feet. Example: 2x4 - 6 feet, 2x6 - 9 feet, 2x8 - 12 feet, etc. Not an exact span but good for a quick ballpark estimate. If you are building a shop there will be quite a bit of weight on it. I would want to start with a good foundation. Chalk-up what you have as expensive fire wood or salvage the 2x4s for a wall, assuming you didn't glue the subfloor. My 2 cents.
Title: Re: ok.. heres a quandary on a shop build
Post by: tareece on March 25, 2017, 02:42:34 PM
Whoa.. sorry... The 2x4's were for interior walls.. my floor have treated 4x4's throughout...
   I took the picture after I started to lift the foundation another 6".
  I found these 4x4's at Lowe's and a couple were bowed
Title: Re: ok.. heres a quandary on a shop build
Post by: Don P on March 25, 2017, 10:11:35 PM
Old carpenter know how stuff, I'll make up an example to help think about it.
If you assume the same load per square foot, I used a residential floor load of 50 pounds per square foot, and assuming the same strength and stiffness for the wood itself. A 4x4 joist set 16" on center can span around 8'. A 2x8 can span about 12'. There is less wood in the 2x8 and yet it can span half again further. There's an old saying in construction "Deeper is cheaper". You pick up bending strength and stiffness faster going deeper rather than wider. As the loads and spans increase it can catch up to you pretty fast.
Title: Re: ok.. heres a quandary on a shop build
Post by: flyingparks on March 25, 2017, 11:45:19 PM
Framing a floor with 4x4s. Pretty much like framing it with 2x4s.
Title: Re: ok.. heres a quandary on a shop build
Post by: tareece on March 30, 2017, 09:52:34 PM
Thanks for the helpful replies..
     No better time to start over than now!
Title: Re: ok.. heres a quandary on a shop build
Post by: tareece on April 15, 2017, 03:17:58 PM
My original question remains though... How do I tell if my lumber is ok to use?
Title: Re: ok.. heres a quandary on a shop build
Post by: Roger Nair on April 15, 2017, 03:48:23 PM
To the question of "How do I tell if my lumber is ok to use?"   A carpenter could apply a number of  eyeball and tactile tests.  The degree of cupping, twisting, bowing and checking and whether mid span blocking will straighten out problems.  Is the wood sound?  Will it hold a nail?  Are there fungus blooms or evident brown rot?  Can you push a sharp awl deep into questionable spots?  It is all a mater of judgment and it's your call or if you know a good carpenter, hire some judgment from a person you trust.

Also seeming bad wood can become usable wood in shorter pieces or become cripples, blocking and backups.
Title: Re: ok.. heres a quandary on a shop build
Post by: Don P on April 15, 2017, 03:55:00 PM
Roger responded while I was slowly pecking away, mostly the same thoughts.

That's a tough question since strength suffers before we see decay but look for signs of decay. Weathering is no problem. Look for brown cubic rot, the blocky cross grain soft rot and then look for white rot, the thread white spongy stuff. A "pick test" is the classic way to check. Take something like a fine icepick and insert it across the grain under  the surface a bit and pry up to pick up a nice sized splinter. If you do tear out a nice long splinter the wood is good, if it breaks off short and brashy over the pick then it is no good.
Title: Re: ok.. heres a quandary on a shop build
Post by: tareece on April 17, 2017, 02:40:25 PM
I'm amazed that these 2x4's are mostly good... Just discolored. They've maintained strength enough to be used as levers to raise the floor by hand...
Title: Re: ok.. heres a quandary on a shop build
Post by: 711ac on May 08, 2017, 05:29:27 PM
If I"m mis-understanding your pic that you call your "current floor", sorry. But those concrete blocks need to be holes up for any strength.