I want to get a mill here on the farm. I have no experience running a mill of any kind. The idea is that I have a number of projects that need to be done over the next couple of years and rather than paying to have my own logs milled or flat out buying lumber I figured I can at least have the mill and finished product for the same $$. I don't see a market in our area for portable milling services, perhaps I could sell a little QS or specialty wood locally, but don't see that as a big money maker at this time, if something were to develop down the road then I could look at upgrading at that time.
Want to keep the budget tight - not going to make a payment on something that sits most of the time. $3,000 is my goal, I understand that will not get me anything fancy. On line I have looked at the DIY - kit mills, Bell Saw type mills, and some of the manual basic complete mills.
Questions I have are what are the maintenance / operating costs of circular vs band mills? What are the pros and cons of the two different styles? How much lumber can one reasonably expect to produce on a Bellsaw or manual band mill in a day - assuming occasional use so I would be on the slower side I suspect. Of the models out there what ones would you avoid or recommend at the level I am looking at? It is in the plans to build a solar kiln for the hardwoods as one of the needs is to saw a new floor for the farmhouse at some point, anything would be an improvement over what is there now.
I love the twin blade Casey is building down in Lousiana but right now I can't justify spending that kind of money. Any input is greatly appreciated.
You might want to look into Hud-Son's line of equipment, they have mills in your price range.
This is all my understanding:
Band mills save more wood, take less power, and the wood comes off more smootherer most of the time, leaving less work for finishing it.
Keeping a band cutting straight is harder than a circle mill.
You will have to either send out your bands to be sharpened. With a circle mill you can sharpen them yourself with tools you probably already have.
Circle blades cost more if you ruin the blade, but most of the ones you would be looking at would have shanks with replaceable teeth.
Time for bed!
Funny 4x should mention Hud-son...that was the one mill I was going to tell you to avoid. Friend had one, I don't think he ever cut a straight board with it.
That and Ripsaw.
On that budget the little Woodland MIlls might be the best buying.
It might be possible to find a used circle mill for that money, but it's a much steeper learning curve, it will be old, and probably needs work. They are also are harder to operate alone, and tend to have some safety issues.
The little band mill? Basically it's new out of the box, read the manual, watch some videos, put the mill together and start sawing. OK there's plenty more to learn as you go, but you will be making boards from day 1.
Not a high production mill, but as a part time hobby business, it will get you started without the risk of an expensive high production mill. What you learn with the little one will apply to a bigger mill if you upgrade later.
Quote from: Ianab on February 05, 2015, 02:08:36 AM
On that budget the little Woodland MIlls might be the best buying.
It might be possible to find a used circle mill for that money, but it's a much steeper learning curve, it will be old, and probably needs work. They are also are harder to operate alone, and tend to have some safety issues.
The little band mill? Basically it's new out of the box, read the manual, watch some videos, put the mill together and start sawing. OK there's plenty more to learn as you go, but you will be making boards from day 1.
Not a high production mill, but as a part time hobby business, it will get you started without the risk of an expensive high production mill. What you learn with the little one will apply to a bigger mill if you upgrade later.
This. I'm new to milling. Very green for sure. I did a lot of research for a cheap priced mill. My needs are to be able to cut hard wood trees. Use said lumber around my place. Must be able to cut at least 16'.
I ended buying a Woodland HM126. I only been having it for a week, but I been ripping lumber. Very happy with the mill. Once I put it together which took about 5 hours, I threw on a log and went to town. The cost of the mill with a extension track and 10 extra blades plus shipping to me cost $3800. Took less then a week to get it. I did have some questions when I got it and called them. Right off the bat I was very happy with the support. Also, Woodland is a supporter of this web site and you can read up on there forum here or do a search and there are a bunch of Woodland owners that post here.
I did look at the Harbor Freight mill that cost 1K less. But once you really look at it real close, you can see were that extra 1K is spent. Besides that, for me, I would have to build extra tracking. That and what motor that came with the mill. We all know most of the things HF sell are cheap knock offs. ;D
One thing for sure is there is a lot of info here on this web site. I been reading on this forum. Read the past 90+ pages and I been picking up a lot of good info.
There a lot of us Woodland Mill owners here. I like mine easy to run and work on
No I cant cut lumber with the big boys but I don't need to I'm cutting for my self.
For the money I don't think you can go wrong. I did look at all of the rest but after watching Josh run the mill in the video sold me on the Woodland Mill
Good luck in the hunt for a mill
If you can get down to Raleigh (a couple hours drive for you) at the state fair grounds they are having a farm show there today and tomorrow with 3 different kinds of small sawmills there. All have smaller mills in your price for sale there. I'm no fan of the Hudson but he did cut straight lumber with it and it was white oak.
I have a friend who has a Hud-Son, and I had a customer who has a Hud-Son, and they both love em. As you may have read on this site, any properly adjusted mill will cut straight. The customer who has his is a woodworker and saws mainly hardwoods with his, and my friends oscar is on a mixed diet.
I also have the Woodland Mills HM 126. Great mill, excellent customer service, and not a bad price. I can't say enough about it :)
You said farm? I suppose you have a tractor to get the logs out? I would go to as many shows and members close by to see thier mills. I looked for years before I brought mine. Took me a while because of money. It's nice to have a mill. Kinda like a bass boat. :D
Quote from: thecfarm on February 05, 2015, 09:17:08 AMIt's nice to have a mill. Kinda like a bass boat. :D
That comment is funny to me Ray because when I bought my sawmill the previous owner's cousin told me later that me buying the sawmill was kinda like buying a boat. Both the seller and the buyer were happy. :D
In my case it is like a bass boat. I know your situation is diffeant. Mine will sit for months at a time without being used. I have used it enough to pay for it with just what I have sawed myself. But I could of spent probabaly $1000 and had someone, like you, come saw what I needed and saved $6000. ;D But than I would not have a bass boat sawmill to enjoy. ;D
For my two cents, you can't go past a Lucas, the learning curve is much much smaller than any band mill, setup is much easier, keeping everything properly aligned Jas easier. I'd suspect the money spent on bands outweighs the money on blades - I haven't 'broken' a blade in 11 years commercial sawing only need new tips from time to time, around 30 sharpens using the supplied sharpener before needed new teeth and that's around 40 cubic metres of Aussie hardwood log, the stuff you guys have might get double that per blade. Nothing other than servicing needs doing during its life
Thanks for the input guys, @fishfighter (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=28788) that is an impressive machine for the money, @goose63 (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=23477) the spots in the video where the owner is making veneer was pretty danG impressive. @xlogger (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=18470) would love to go down to the show, why they have those things during the week is beyond me, two of the mills I ship to end settlements on Thursday and with this wet winter I need every good day in the woods I can get. @thecfarm (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=436) oh yea, have the iron to get the logs out, actually thinking I could use some of my non-commercial timber and turn it into lumber rather than send it off for pulp. There is absolutely no value to a 9' pine log even if it was 30" in diameter and clean, I can't even sell it as pulp as it is too short, now if I can get 370 BFT out of that same piece...
Of course now I am sitting here all night watching videos and drooling, ahh - the automatic sharpener, the portable trailer option, a little building just for the mill (can't mill in the rain you know), the list goes on and on!!!!
What about log leveling - do you worry about the taper with these manual mills or just mill with how the log lies?
Morning Southside logger, I am in the same boat(not a logger or farmer) but on a tight budget and ready to retire. I am wanting a WM LT15 and my second choice is a Woodland. Have a great day and happy hunting. :)
How did this thread drift into boats so quickly anyway?
With a boatload of members it will go to food or boats. :D
I had a limited budget and went with the Woodland. Cutting lumber for sheds, shops, and once the learning curve straightens out, a 3300sf house. Got the mill, 10 pack of lenox blades, and two extra track extensions (22ft capacity) $4200 delivered to extreme South Arkansas. Get it level and keep a tight band and it will cut well within its advertised capacity. My best day was about 350 bf but that was before I built my roll on log deck. I still debark the whole tree too before loading it. After learning a little bit, I feel like I can easily cut 600-700 feet if the logs are prestaged on the deck and I don't debark everything, and I have a predefined cut list. Not sure if that;s good or bad for a completely manual mill, but I would be happy with that output. Would highly recommend for the money. I might consider upgrading to a 15hp Kohler in the future though. Just to give it a little more umph.
Some one will bring up food too just don't bring up :-X GRITS some on here don't like em ;D
The LT15 with the 25 HP engine and the power feed is a very fine manual mill set-up. With a helper, you can cut well over 1000 bf in a day. It is a real workhorse. I am approaching sawing 100,000 bf on mine.
Before purchasing my LT40HD I had a Hudson for maybe five years. Can't say I ever had problems cutting a straight board. I liked it very much and could easily cut a 1000 board foot in a day, but of course that always depends on the logs you're cutting.
I have an old belsaw that I have maybe $1,300.00 into. It cut straight and square. As far as aesthetics I prefer circle sawed lumber for siding, you just can't beat the scratch marks imho. When I sawed 1x siding I ended up with 3 piles of roughly equal size; sawdust, trimmings, and lumber. I would not recommend you use a belsaw to cut 16' in a "portable" arrangement. Circle mills need to be level, and level under the load of a moving log. You need over double the length of your longest log and it must be flat end to end and side to side the whole way. Mine is 48' long, but I have never cut longer than 17'. My feed rate was 75' per minute. Never kept track of output, haven't used it for 14 years. The noise is incredible, cool, but loud. The saw dust pile from the belsaw always bothered me. I would give it away but it was still a pain.
I'm building a bandsaw sawmill. I will keep both mills, only because of the scratch marks.
Quote from: Southside logger on February 05, 2015, 11:58:43 PM
Thanks for the input guys, @fishfighter (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=28788) that is an impressive machine for the money, @goose63 (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=23477) the spots in the video where the owner is making veneer was pretty danG impressive. @xlogger (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=18470) would love to go down to the show, why they have those things during the week is beyond me, two of the mills I ship to end settlements on Thursday and with this wet winter I need every good day in the woods I can get. @thecfarm (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=436) oh yea, have the iron to get the logs out, actually thinking I could use some of my non-commercial timber and turn it into lumber rather than send it off for pulp. There is absolutely no value to a 9' pine log even if it was 30" in diameter and clean, I can't even sell it as pulp as it is too short, now if I can get 370 BFT out of that same piece...
Of course now I am sitting here all night watching videos and drooling, ahh - the automatic sharpener, the portable trailer option, a little building just for the mill (can't mill in the rain you know), the list goes on and on!!!!
What about log leveling - do you worry about the taper with these manual mills or just mill with how the log lies?
Building my building for my mill now with lumber I'm cutting. ;D
Log leveling, I do. I'm using a floor jack once I line up the best cuts out the log. I had learn very quick to know what I want out on the log before cutting it. First few logs, I didn't have a idea what I wanted. :laugh:
Another thing. Try to keep your work area clear. Cut offs build up real fast and before you know it, they start to pile up and come back towards the mill tracts, blocking the mill head. Don't ask me how I know this. :laugh: I have to spend time today to clear that area. >:( :laugh: Cutting red oak, I pulled some big first cuts off. Those will be used as fire wood for next winter. If I get enough of those, which I'm sure I will, a half cord sells for $120 to $150 in my neck of the woods.
Quote from: goose63 on February 06, 2015, 07:31:39 AM
Some one will bring up food too just don't bring up :-X GRITS some on here don't like em ;D
GRITS are not the same as Grits!! Not sure which one you don't like :D
@Ugly Tree (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=24007) What do you use to de-bark with?
A smooth end roofing shovel. Not so bad on SYP. Probably a bear on oak.
I see we need a GRITS-grits definition.
GRITS,Girls Raised In The South. Nothing a matter with that. ;D
Now the grits one,the so called corn food from the south.
Now back to our regular scheduled program. ;D
Quote from: thecfarm on February 05, 2015, 09:17:08 AM
It's nice to have a mill. Kinda like a bass boat. :D
You know what they say about boats. The day you bought it was the best day of your life, up until the day you sell it. Then that becomes the best day of your life because you no longer have it hanging around your neck.
I would hope that the mills do not start to feel like they own you rather than you owning them. Takes all the enjoyment out of milling. Every log has a story to tell and each one is a new canvas, some better looking than others of course.
@thecfarm (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=436) I like both the grits GRITS from down south :o
I have never once looked at my mill like I have a bass boat I had in the past. When I can't saw I think about it, and even try to find logs/trees to cut when I run out. I just really enjoy sawing. There are some lower priced mills out there and a good place to find different companies is the Sawmill and Woodlot magazine.
Quote from: goose63 on February 06, 2015, 07:31:39 AM
Some one will bring up food too just don't bring up :-X GRITS some on here don't like em ;D
by grits you mean girls raised in the south, right?? Who couldn't
like love them?
I suppose girls are better than goats!! :D
Ray,
I would hope so :D.
Quote from: 4x4American on February 06, 2015, 09:53:34 PM
Quote from: goose63 on February 06, 2015, 07:31:39 AM
Some one will bring up food too just don't bring up :-X GRITS some on here don't like em ;D
by grits you mean girls raised in the south, right?? Who couldn't like love them?
I been married to a southern girl for the last 35 years. She is even off loading for me now. ;D
Oh. I'm a grits eating sucker too!
Quote from: thecfarm on February 07, 2015, 06:06:35 AM
I suppose girls are better than goats!! :D
You can have a fun evening with Goats and Grits. ;D
I have the Hud-son HFE-21 and like it. It's billed as a hobby mill, but it does a pretty good job. There's not much to setting it up and very little maintenance. Set up right it saws boards just as straight as anything else out there if you saw at it's rate. I can go from standing timber to lumber and get 300 bf in a day by myself.
I've had mine for just over 2 years and it's paid for itself in cash better than 3 times now and I've probably only used it a couple dozen full days, plus bunches of evenings and I've sawn quite a bit for myself.
My only complaint would be the log stops and log dogs are one assembly working together and if you don't pay attention it's easy to clamp out of square. Granted, that's just me being heavy handed and not spending the time to get things perfect.
If I were to buy another mill I'd definitely look into a larger one used. Unless you have only perfectly straight logs you will use up your height and width on this one real fast with any sweep in your logs.
I would also highly recommend spending the time and fuel to see just as many mills as you possibly can. Keep in mind that most videos made are the ones that went perfect, some logs are just a PITA.
Allan
I really do appreciate all of the responses. I was going over some of these with my wife at dinner yesterday and she looked at me and asked what it would cost to get a hydraulic mill, so I am at least looking at some used ones there - LT-40H range. Her logic is that we can pay for steel or medical bills from turning and fighting logs, so she allowed the budget to come up a fair bit. She is good to me so I don't complain - could not do it without her. Still not going to get into a payment situation. The local mill I sell #3 pine / pulp to shut everybody off this week, so it gave me more incentive to find a better way to get value out of my timber.
I realize it depends on a lot of factors, but what is the general rule of thumb - if there is one - that separates what production mills pay for logs vs what they sell the lumber for. I guess what I am asking is what does pallet stock / tie stock / grade go for over what the logs were purchased for. Just trying to see if there is any market opportunity for me is all.
Thanks again
Jim
Good morning Southside Logger,
I suggest you add a little more into the budget and
look at an EZ Boardwalk Jr. lots of owners here on the board
who speak very highly of them.
I don't think you can get a circle mill for the same price that will cut right out of the box
Also, look to a used machine
check the sale board here of FF,
Best
DGDrls