The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Forestry and Logging => Topic started by: Firewoodjoe on November 01, 2014, 09:37:30 PM

Title: "Flipping" equipment
Post by: Firewoodjoe on November 01, 2014, 09:37:30 PM
I'm burned out and sick of firewood. I want a new side gig. Do you guys think a guy could make a little buying, fixing and making a profit on old iron? All these car guys do it. Would you buy a old skidder or whatever it may be that you can't buy anymore for 30-50k if it was rebuilt?
Title: Re: "Flipping" equipment
Post by: CCC4 on November 01, 2014, 09:51:54 PM
Some people can....most cannot! My boss could sell ice cream at the North Pole! He buys sells and trades skidders, loaders, skidder tires...everything. He puts very little money into fixing...just turns them and makes good profit. The other day he bought a skidder, loaded it, drove it 20 miles, sold it and stuck $3,000 in his pocket! True story!

Could I do that??? ABSOLUTELY NOT! I couldn't sell a bag of rice in Ethiopia! LOL!
Title: Re: "Flipping" equipment
Post by: Banjo picker on November 01, 2014, 10:07:41 PM
I have flipped a couple of tractors...fortunately I was not hurt too bad either time. :D  Banjo
Title: Re: "Flipping" equipment
Post by: RunningRoot on November 01, 2014, 10:13:09 PM
There's a couple local guys around here that does it and make's big money... You have to be resourceful for sure..
My only advice is don't be the guy that does a 5 gallon overhaul and expects 50% profit returns every time..
An old timer up the road did great for over 40 years flipping equipment, had a good name and made himself a million or two over the years, he had alot of people buying from him consistently. His son got a hold of the place when he passed, started buying junk equipment, 5 gallon overhauling them and marking them big time... A lot of people unhappy with him these days and wouldn't be surprised if he shuts down within the next year...
Title: Re: "Flipping" equipment
Post by: BargeMonkey on November 01, 2014, 11:39:05 PM
 You have to look at the market in your area. If your investing 15-20k, labor and time to make 2k your not going to enjoy it for long. Most guys buying the 10-20k machines either are starting out, or have trouble with financing which makes things complicated.I was so relieved when someone decent bought my franklin, the idiots you talk to on the phone.  :D
Other question is, do you have that kinda money behind you to flip higher priced iron ? You can make some money but can you sit on 3-4 machines waiting on the right buyer ? Start out small, I make money on ATV's, chainsaws and other stuff but youve gotta buy stuff right.
Title: Re: "Flipping" equipment
Post by: Firewoodjoe on November 02, 2014, 07:39:14 AM
Everything said is understandable. I don't plan to make millions. Just try to keep or build the money I have invested since I was 13. This is all I have. No degree no sports trophys. Just my small business. I don't want to sell it then just spend the money around the house and family stuff then not be able to start something up down the road because of lack of money. If I could buy something for 3-6,000 put 3-6,000 into it and sell for 10-15000 id be tickled.
Title: Re: "Flipping" equipment
Post by: bill m on November 02, 2014, 08:00:05 AM
While your numbers are not bad what happens when you buy a $5000 machine expecting to put another 5 into it to sell for 12 and then find out it is going to take 8 or 10 to make it sellable? Also do you have the heavy equipment repair expertise to accomplish this in a timely manor. When looking at a machine to flip will you know where to find parts and will they be affordable? Not trying to steer you away from this just try to answer any questions in your own mind to make this profitable.

Title: Re: "Flipping" equipment
Post by: North River Energy on November 02, 2014, 08:31:33 AM
Quote...All these car guys do it.

Selling used cars is a good way to:
1. Make money
2. Lose friends
And it takes a particular personality type.

If you like the idea of mechanical work/reconditioning, set yourself up to be the go-to guy for when a machine breaks down.  So doing, you provide both a service and a product (the parts).  In theory, profiting twice at the bank.
Meanwhile building a reputation; which, itself, becomes another valuable tool in the rollaway.


In the 'freelance wrench' scenario, you don't own the broken machine, and have no responsibility for whether or not it ran well in the first place.  Rather, you are the guy that keeps another man's job running smoothly.

If you have any integrity at all, you will find that buying and working a used machine back up to speed for sale will cost far more than anticipated, as you won't be able to stop the work until it meets the standards that let you sleep well at night.

As read elsewhere, " A good mechanic doesn't cost you money, he makes you money".

Re: sick of firewood. What is it that you dislike, and is there anything you can do to make that operation run smooth enough to satisfy you?

Title: Re: "Flipping" equipment
Post by: jocco on November 02, 2014, 08:34:17 AM
I will hit the negative here, Its hard to buy stuff at a price that has any room to run up. Your labor and repair costs eat you up. You almost need a shop and business location as people think you are a homeowner they will beat you down or not buy. Don't forget moving costs of heavy iron  (trailer truck). Next check any state regulations, insurance and taxes. Also you need about 2 items for sale 2 in the shop ans 2 ready to go in= inventory!!!teeter_totter negative me!!!!
Title: Re: "Flipping" equipment
Post by: Ed_K on November 02, 2014, 08:42:43 AM
 You will need a machine shop of your own also, that eats up $$$ when you need someone to build a part no longer made.
Title: Re: "Flipping" equipment
Post by: Firewoodjoe on November 02, 2014, 09:02:50 AM
I work on newer woods equipment all the time. (Crew of 7) I took two years of deisel mechanic in school also. I have a shop not quite finished but has a 14' door. All the big dealers are close by for parts and a few smaller ones. My good friend has been a machinest for 30 years and will build anything I need. And I have trucks and trailers. Like I siad this is not going to to be my sole income. I log week days. And isn't loosing money sometimes part of business😀 I mean the woods itself seems to be a gamble most days! Just looking to keep busy nights and weekends and work with what I have.
Title: Re: "Flipping" equipment
Post by: kiko on November 02, 2014, 09:17:28 AM
I have tried this before and it is a losing battle.  Every once and a while I got lucky and made a little on a machine but most of the time I lost my a** because if I knew something was wrong with the machine I could not lie about! used car salesman I am not.  However, I have done quite well busting them down and selling them piece by piece.  I go ahead and dismantle the machine because sales will be missed if the part is not readily available. Things like the frames can then be sold as scrap to recoup some of the investment money. I started with one machine. I try to part machines that locals are currently logging with.  Logs loaders do not have enough parts in them and have bought really cheap to come out. Just don't move south and compete with me.
Title: Re: "Flipping" equipment
Post by: Windy_Acres on November 02, 2014, 09:57:49 AM
Ive been flipping "equipment" and parts since about 2000 (mostly ag and construction, not forestry, I live in the middle of the land of corn, as a rule, we have little in the way of trees or forestry equipment). Ive been flipping vehicles since the 80s.

Three keys Ive found. 1. Knowing exactly what you're buying and what liabilities it has while in your "inventory". 2. Cash in hand. 3. Knowing where and or who to get good deals from.

For example, a local bank used to "give" (not literally, figuratively, pennies on the dollar) me cars and trucks (repos) that they deemed where not worthy of taking to auction. Naturally they got bought out and that resource went away. Then I found a large "buy here pay here" car lot, that would sell me late model cars and trucks that where wrecked, and repo-ed, so they had clean paper, but where otherwise "totlaled". I made good money flipping those to mechanics and bodymen. That dried up when I lost my "storage" where I kept them parked until sold.

Now I go to allot of consignment ag auctions, and I will buy whatever is far from its street value and then flip on criags, ebay or take to another auction. Basically, Im buy whatever is there that has no "buyer".

Wont get rich, but from time to time, Ive lived on the income of flipping "stuff".
Title: Re: "Flipping" equipment
Post by: mad murdock on November 02, 2014, 10:06:31 AM
If you know your region well and what is in demand, you could possibly do ok providing a "cost effective" solution to some of the small wood lot guys who are looking for that small cat or Skidder to do their own work with. Possibly even do ok buying at the right price 20-40hp 4wd diesel tractors and setting them up for small time skidding and woods use.  I think that trying to flip the bigger iron could be a real limited possibility, as anyone depending on a machine day in and day out for their bread and butter is going to be a hard sell on a used piece of equipment, unless you are able to buy it right.
Title: Re: "Flipping" equipment
Post by: Dave Shepard on November 02, 2014, 10:20:02 AM
Quote from: BargeMonkey on November 01, 2014, 11:39:05 PM
You have to look at the market in your area. If your investing 15-20k, labor and time to make 2k your not going to enjoy it for long. Most guys buying the 10-20k machines either are starting out, or have trouble with financing which makes things complicated.I was so relieved when someone decent bought my franklin, the idiots you talk to on the phone.  :D
Other question is, do you have that kinda money behind you to flip higher priced iron ? You can make some money but can you sit on 3-4 machines waiting on the right buyer ? Start out small, I make money on ATV's, chainsaws and other stuff but youve gotta buy stuff right.

Exactly what I was thinking.
Title: Re: "Flipping" equipment
Post by: Autocar on November 02, 2014, 11:41:30 AM
If I was going to change careers I would lean more a logging/farm equipment repair shop make hyd. hoses ect.
Title: Re: "Flipping" equipment
Post by: CCC4 on November 02, 2014, 11:52:34 AM
Quote from: Autocar on November 02, 2014, 11:41:30 AM
If I was going to change careers I would lean more a logging/farm equipment repair shop make hyd. hoses ect.

+10!!! LOL! Can you even imagine the money that could be made from a mobile hydraulic hose vehicle? Imagine having several logging sites on say a 50 mile circle, and how many operations would rather not have to shut down to go to town and get a hose?? You could just make your rounds and even if something wasn't broke, I bet you could still sell and make hoses for spares!   
Title: Re: "Flipping" equipment
Post by: Firewoodjoe on November 02, 2014, 12:22:01 PM
Most loggers around here either have the hose in the truck or a hydrulic machine. The only ones we don't do or have are 4 braid and the button ends. But we buy two when we blow one. I don't know just throwing the idea around.
Title: Re: "Flipping" equipment
Post by: BargeMonkey on November 02, 2014, 12:32:22 PM
 My cousin is a perfect example of starting small. Got out of OH diesel tech, worked for Cat, then a few quarrys and other companys along the way. Hes been at our place every saturday for 7+ yrs turning wrenches. He has slowly built himself a client list of guys he takes care of, now hes out on his own fulltime, has a decent small shop and a F-350 tool truck. Makes a good living, and hes sharp.
What about turning wrenches, little bit of welding and fab work ? Around me a good place for hoses is always busy. You tie up 100k in well used iron, or 100k in a truck, tools and shop equipment, Im thinking you can do pretty well. And the best thing is, most guys doing wrench work do it in cash.
Title: Re: "Flipping" equipment
Post by: Hilltop366 on November 02, 2014, 02:53:55 PM
To me the difference between between a side business of (buying and selling) or (repair work) is that if you are doing repair work there is usually someone in a hurry to get their gear back where as buying and selling (which often involves repair work) can be done on your own schedule as time permits.

I have bought as sold things from time to time anything from sewer snakes to a suv to a tractor or a guitar, I haven't done much lately but always have my eyes open for a opportunity.
Title: Re: "Flipping" equipment
Post by: SPIKER on November 02, 2014, 03:26:07 PM
I guess I'm in the camp that always gets the worse end of "DEALS" I have bought and flipped some cars in the past usually only breaking even for most part I tend to buy junk, fix it and use it.   The "SELLING" part is where it gets harder.   Even if it is something you like it may not be something that can be sold when you NEED to get rid of it (at least for what you need out of it.)

Mark
Title: Re: "Flipping" equipment
Post by: longtime lurker on November 06, 2014, 10:38:59 PM
Depends on (a) how good of a mechanic you are and (b) how good of a spray painter you are and (c) how deep your pockets are to fix things up and (d) how much time you got to do this in and (e) how many people you know to buy and sell to and how good a negotiator you are.

I'm a diesel fitter by trade, I have a fair workshop and a better then average tool selection. But I lack time - this place looks like a graveyard for things with faded yellow paint at times. I do tend to trade gear, or timber for gear, and bring it home and work on it, run it awhile, then trade it for the next piece of junk, or logs, or sell it - usually with enough of a cash difference to cover what I've put into it. Never really made any money doing it but I have managed to slowly improve the quality of my equipment from some pretty rough and ready antiques to reliable gear that will get a job done.

Me, I'm a sawmiller, and I like sawmilling. If I wanted to be a mechanic I could, but I'd rather go spend a day turning logs into lumber then be in the workshop swinging spanners and arguing with siezed up bolts on some dirty old piece of sh....
Title: Re: "Flipping" equipment
Post by: longtime lurker on November 06, 2014, 10:43:19 PM
And never buy anything that is hard to source parts for. Look for eaton, allison, clark, zf, cat, detroit, perkins, or other common componentry, because when you're trying to find a bonded harmonic balance for a UE600 Leyland or something equally impossible then it can be a long and expensive road to repair. >:(