Starting to get the itch for a new piece of iron and after losing my last employee im starting to look at going CTL for 90% of it. Sick of buying stumpage, pampering help and not getting ahead. Found a few Rottne forwarders for sale, both actually within driving distance and just wondering whats the good and bad with them ? Been looking at the Timberpro's but they seem so big, maybe its just me. Ive only got a small 4 wheel 230 right now, but i see the potential for a big forwarder. Will an 8 wheeler really go where "they" claim ? Another local logger runs a 670 franklin 6 wheeler, bunching with a dozer and a Timberpro barsaw buncher and im not ashamed to admit he does a nicer, cleaner job. I told my dad when I was home I was looking at a Rolley head and an 8 wheeler, he just shook his head. Right now counting the 7 trucks, we stand at 42 pieces of equipment not counting any of the trailers or small stuff. :'( counting batteries and tires will make you cry anymore.
I have run a few Rottne forwarders, you can put a lot of wood to the road with them in a hurry. Going from a standard TJ 230 to an 8wd Rottne is like coming out of the dark ages. Hydrostatic drive forwarders will get around in a lot rougher and hilly ground than you could dream of in a standard tranny machine.
Don't know much about rottne but the timberpro's only look big because of the way the house is mounted. The machines are the same width as your timbco. A few loggers around here have them and they seem to go through the woods just fine. Put some tracks on a 8 wheeler and you will be surprised where they can go. Not only on hills but also in soft ground if the processer puts the tops in the trail making a mat for the forwarder to run on. Only thing is if you get one stuck its a little bigger project to get it out than your 450
like jamie says out of the dark ages. the dealer in pa is factory owned. so they stock a lot of parts. one thing i find kinda odd about them they dont open till 8:30am. depending on the year it could have a iveco or deere motor or if its real old a ford. with the iveco once you get the part numbers crossed over to new holland parts can be had. i have a list of most engine parts. they are a well built machine and fairly easy to work on......most of the time. i was told not to spend a money on the ac replace it with a red dot. as he said we only have 2 to3 weeks of 70 degree weather in sweden we dont need ac
Theres 2 machines for sale ive seen,
1 has pretty high hours, somewhere around 19k, 6 wheeler with good rubber and joystick. It has a 6.8 deere engine which is a plus for me, just came off a pipeline job. 50k
The other 1 is a newer 8 wheeler, a 2000 I think with 4k hours. Nice looking machine, with the iveco engine I believe. Thats 150k, which is getting up there for what im looking for.
I would probably either sell the jack outright, or see if the dealer might take it in on a rolly head, so being stuck with 2 doesnt happen. Just kicking the idea around. Anyone know the capacity on a 6-8 wheel rottne rapid ? The jack is ok but she is tippy, doesnt reach very far and has served her purpose.
I havn't run rottne but I have most others ponsse is the best machine and best support bar none. Just my opinion.
The Rottne Rapids have a max capacity of 16 tonnes ... roughly 8 cords in theory. I would go with the 8wd, lot smoother ride and better traction in wet areas.
From my experience the Rottne and John Deere forwarders will climb much steeper hills with a full load than a Ponsse. The last Ponsse Buffalo King I ran wouldn't drag 12 tonne loads up the same hill a Rottne or JD would drag 16 tonne plus loads. And that was after new drive pumps and trips by the dealer to ensure all pressures were set properly.
I still don't understand why that Ponsse wouldn't climb, Jamie. I've never had mine power out, it either digs holes or spins inside the tracks. I also don't consider 8 wheel machines smooth riding, they are superior by every other measure but they beat the snot out of the operator when you are driving. The smaller tires don't roll over stumps, they slide off and knock your guts out. It may be different with tracks under the cab as well, we just run chains and you get to feel every stump twice >:( I have no experience with Rottne machines, I've only ran Ponsse machines and only for the last 3 years.
Another thing, I can't speak for other brands but with Ponsse machines, your A/C system needs to function or you can't operate. If it is sunny, it only needs to be about 20° F and you will have it on. With all the windows for solar gain, you will cook, and the windows are all sealed. When you add the heat from the hydraulics under the cab, you find yourself using the A/C way more than you would expect. It can be a high maintainence item, but very necessary so be prepared for the associated costs.
AC is a must in all on a sunny day we have done long adverses of 60% if your diff is locked when you need it and the soil holds she'll climb. my favorite thing about ponsse is the support, great guys.
ill agree the 8w is a rough ride. For operator comfort 6 wheel is nicer, my opinion. 8 is superior in traction and flotation though.
All of the 8wd machines I have ran had half tracks on the front bogies too, with only wheel chains on the front they are a rough ride.
As for why that Ponnse wouldn't climb hills I have no idea unless the dealer mechanic really goofed. The previous owner had the same problem. The day I had the mechanic in the machine with me and it wouldn't climb a 15 degree hill with a load on I laughed at him when he said it was so steep nothing would climb it. The hill wasn't even steep enough to bother wearing the seatbelt in the harvester. It wouldn't spin or dig holes even if you tried to. I personally think that the relief was set way too low, I bet it didn't have the tractive effort of a 12 tonne machine and it was rated at 18 tonne.
Oops forgot ... without an operating a/c unit forget about running them on sunny days with a temp much over 10 Celsius ... will be like being inside a slow cooker ... push that to 20 Celsius and you will literally get heat stroke it gets so hot in the cab. You are basically sitting inside a greenhouse.
Yes I have never run with tracks on the cab end of the machine.
Early this spring before the snow went, my a/c was out on the harvester. My phone registered 132* f. Outside temp maybe 45*.
dont be scared of the iveco motor. its a very well built engine. as the rottne guy told me a lot of owners liked the iveco better than the deere. it had more torque and used less fuel than the jd. i have had a hard time getting the part numbers for engine parts. all the new iveco part # are new holland part # so its all available. they use to use air over hydraulic brakes . the hydraulics are all electric so there is no oil in the cab. with a air ride and heated seat you wont even want to start that tj again
19000 is not high hours 30000 might be
Make sure it's a US spec machine. Dealers won't support a grey market piece that was bought in and shipped from Europe.
Quote from: snowstorm on June 15, 2014, 08:48:10 PM
19000 is not high hours 30000 might be
I know my 230 is over 10k, and my jack and deere skidders have over 10k, but generally we wont even look at anything with over 5k hours. We have a mechanic 1-2 days a week and our maintenance program is 100% but im leery of buying a basket case. I saw a 640D with 32K on it, about fell over. John deere had a few loaders @ finch years ago with 40-50k on them. Our 644H has 12k now and its getting time for a K series come fall.
Will the newer parallel link loaders pick up and handle the big, long stuff comfortably ? My 230 will pick about anything, but you wanna be careful reaching over or she gets tippy.
Also.. whats a set of tracks cost ? Ive been looking and seen a few different brands but didnt know which was best, or they where even worth having ? How hard are they to take on and off ?
Quote from: Jhenderson on June 15, 2014, 08:52:38 PM
Make sure it's a US spec machine. Dealers won't support a grey market piece that was bought in and shipped from Europe.
the rottne rep told me he has imported machines. a year ago he was talking about importing some used machines from sweden. he works for the factory owned dealer
Quote from: BargeMonkey on June 15, 2014, 09:56:09 PM
Will the newer parallel link loaders pick up and handle the big, long stuff comfortably ? My 230 will pick about anything, but you wanna be careful reaching over or she gets tippy.
the parallel crane is on the harvester not the fowarder. the crane will be faster and smoother than the tj
Quote from: BargeMonkey on June 15, 2014, 10:08:20 PM
Also.. whats a set of tracks cost ? Ive been looking and seen a few different brands but didnt know which was best, or they where even worth having ? How hard are they to take on and off ?
tracks are a lot of cash. they work very well. you can put them on by yourself. i do. to get them off maybe 10 min. for bolth sides
Quote from: BargeMonkey on June 15, 2014, 09:56:09 PM
Will the newer parallel link loaders pick up and handle the big, long stuff comfortably ? My 230 will pick about anything, but you wanna be careful reaching over or she gets tippy.
Rottne designed their own loader, and they are known for being strong. As snowstorm mentioned, the forwarders do not have a parallel link loader.
The 14 Ton had the RK 60 loader, and the SMV 16 Ton has the RK 90 loader.
Earlier you mentioned that one had joysticks, they both do. If one of the rottne's has a steering wheel, that's more of a novelty than anything else. Nobody around here uses the wheel. Once you get used to the joysticks and rotating the seat, you'll see how much more productive the new forwarders are. The steering wheel still makes sense in Sweden where the machines can be driven on the road.
While looking for a Rottne forwarder, make sure to checker the midjoint bearing. They wear out, and some owners are too slow to replace them. A worn out bearing can result in a cracked frame or the bearing completely coming apart in the woods, usually while loaded. I would just plan to replace it unless the owner can show proof that it was done recently. As for cost, its best to call Rottne US to find out. Replace the bearing and the bolts.
Same for the midjoint pins and bushings, just plan to replace them.
Snowstorm said it well, try to find a machine with Red Dot A/C. Some Rottne's also came with the option of window blinds, which helps with the sun glare.
An old Rottne technician described 6wd vs 8wd to me as: the 6wd will pass over a bump once and it will be a big bump, the 8wd will pass over it twice but it will feel like smaller bumps. Depends what you want, one big bump, or 2 smaller bumps.
From running a 6 wheel harvester, I would say the big tire makes a big rolling "hump", the 2 small tires give two nasty sharp bumps. Unless the 6 wheel machine slides off of a stump. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I can't emphasize enough how rough 8 wheel machines ride. The only thing I can compare it to is when I worked on a paving crew, running steel drum rollers. You could hit a small crack in the road and blow your spleen.
I've only run 8 wheel machines, I find myself pulling a lot of stumps out with my forwarder you get tired of bouncing over them. I worked with a guy who ran a Rottne he loved it but one time it was broke down two weeks til Rickard got back from Sweden to fix it, at that time he was the only mechanic they had. I don't know about now. Also the parts seemed very high priced and I dislike metric hoses and fittings.
I will say that part of the problem with my machine is my boss insists on high air pressure in our forwarder tires, as he got sick of all the flats we were having. So our machines don't bounce, they just slam. I got to run one of our new Ponsse Buffalo's, they have a new style of frame lock- instead of the big brake disc style like mine, the new ones have two hydrualic cylinders that lock. That machine rode WAY smoother, I suspect the hydraulics cylinders have a dampening effect. Ponsse machines are all British Pipe hydraulic fittings, which is fine here because there is a Ponsse shop in town and enough Ponsse machines around that most hydraulic shops carry BSP as well. If you don't have that luxury, BSP would be a real pain. Bargemonkey, you want a machine that has good dealer support. With the complexity of these newer machines, you need someone that is experienced with their quirks and can get you parts in short order. They cost way too much to be sitting for 2 weeks. In my area, I would say Ponsse and John Deere have the best support by far, and that's really all you see for CTL machines up here. Timberjack, John Deere, and Ponsse are the only forwarders I have seen, except for Timberpro forwarders on pipeline jobs. As for processors, the same machines and a few Timbco, Timberpro, and Fabtek. Now that I say that, I've seen a few Fabtek forwarders, too. My point is that people are buying the machines that they can keep running ;)