Need your recommendation on a new forest axe while cutting timber. I have to walk in pretty rough country so it needs to be small enough not to slow me down but have enough weight to drive wedges and keep me out of trouble. Thinking of buying one of those aluminum axe carriers that rides in the small of your back, so handle needs to be long enough to grab.
Thanks, Redbark
Welcome to the Forestry Forum Redbark! Which patch of woods is home for you? Fiskars makes several sized axes with lightweight composite handles, that have a lifetime warannty on them. I think an x15 would be about the size you would want. They come with a nice cover/sheath, don't know if the smaller ones have beltloops in them. If you want to go traditional, checck out Husqvarna, their line of hand forged axes are made by Wetterlings, and are very good quality. Bailey's (forum sponsor) sells them, as well as the Fiskars, I believe. If you want the cadillac, Autine Tools by John Neeman, are had crafted top of the line tools! I think there are some links to vids of how they are made. You can use the forum search tool and look for "birth of a tool".
I agree with Mad Murdock. There are countless decent axe manufacturers out there. Generally, you get what you pay for. Snow and Neally from Maine makes some fine quality tools, although their older stuff is better in my mind.
A quick point of clarification- I believe "John Neeman Tools" exists separately from "Autine Tools by John Neeman". One of their blacksmiths left John Neeman Tools to start Autine and took the Neeman name with him, significantly confusing things. So there are now two companies. John Neeman Tools is the original company (and the maker of the amazing tool videos), but I believe Autine has donated to the Forum. It looks like they both make inspiringly well made tools.
Personally, I prefer finding old axe heads and handling them.
Jed
Quote from: Offthebeatenpath on February 05, 2014, 06:31:44 PM
I agree with Mad Murdock. There are countless decent axe manufacturers out there. Generally, you get what you pay for. Snow and Neally from Maine makes some fine quality tools, although their older stuff is better in my mind.
A quick point of clarification- I believe "John Neeman Tools" exists separately from "Autine Tools by John Neeman". One of their blacksmiths left John Neeman Tools to start Autine and took the Neeman name with him, significantly confusing things. So there are now two companies. John Neeman Tools is the original company (and the maker of the amazing tool videos), but I believe Autine has donated to the Forum. It looks like they both make inspiringly well made tools.
Personally, I prefer finding old axe heads and handling them.
Jed
Thanks for the clarification OTBP, It is rather confusing. I like the craftsmanship that goes into the swedish hand forged tools, but I too have old axheads that I have cleaned, and rehung, which are working well for me. The videos put out by USFS "An Axe to grinde", is a very good primer on axe rehabilitation, and use. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz3rs-eaN3E
Video on Autine is pretty neat....
http://vimeo.com/64534154
One question.... I am surprised that his axes incorporate a forge welding of a strip tool steel in the face of the
ax head to form the cutting edge. Anyone know if Gransfors Bruks or Wetterlings are similarly constructed?
Do all the higher end, forged axes use this build technique, or do some of them use monolithic, one piece, forged
steel heads?
I'd be a bit surprise if the material cost difference between the tool steel insert and the steel used for the rest of the
ax head, justifies the increase in labor and processing to achieve the forge weld.
You should not use a high quality axe to drive wedges. It swells the eye and distorts the head.So says Gransfors Bruks. I prefer a 5LB Collins, straight handle, or it's equivalent. Either Madsens ( my preference) or Bailey's carries them.
I wish I knew more, but I've been told that almost all axes are made with two or more types of steel. Of course, I forget why...
The Autine videos are cool and perhaps more informative but the videos put out by John Neeman Tools are captivating and amazingly beautiful. The founder of John Neeman Tools was a videographer before switching gears and working with traditional tools. The first video they put out is this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paCyA9ypEOE
The other videos found at http://www.youtube.com/user/neemantools are just as inspiring.
jhenderson
Welcome to the Forestry Forum.
I'm thinking the felling wedges are plastic or maybe aluminum, and not the steel wedges like used to split wood. Doubt the plastic would harm the axe. I usually just drive felling wedges in with a short stick/club that I fashion quickly out of limb wood found in the woods when felling trees. I keep an axe along, or close by, if the saw gets in a bind and then chop it out.
I use what is/has been called a cruisers axe. But that name has been attributed to so many different styles that I don't think it means much any more.
Gransfors brux, are one piece forgings, all tool steel differentialy hardened.
Instead of spending hundreds on a handforged axe your likely to loose just get a Collins rafting axe with a 28" handle. 3.5-5 pounder local saw shop has em for like $50. baileys has em a bit cheaper.
personally I have 2 I use regularly my trusty ole Craftsman 3.5# and a newer 5# Collins, which one I grab depends on how big the wood I'll be tackling is. However the 5#er is not so bad to drag around all day, and it will smear a lower quality wedge pretty quick like. The craftfsman has a slightly smaller handle so it fits in the belt loop a little better and doesn't fall out like the Collins, although with one of them aluminium carriers it wouldn't be an issue.
What do you all prefer for carrying an axe? I personally have issues with leaving the cutting edge exposed on the small of my back or waist, especially if I'm climbing and need something to drive a wedge while I'm blocking down a tree. I've always been worried about falling on it or having it nick a rope.
Ok history lesson...
The reason old axes had the harder piece on the blade side is purely because high carbon steel is a pain to make by hand, unless you have a bessemer forge laying around and 15-20 people to keep it fed for a month...
So smiths of old would make small batches of high carbon steel, usually by case hardening small pieces and then folding them together (lots of work...) they would then take the standard wrought iron and forge weld a piece of the high carbon where the blade would go. While it worked, many times the high carbon would pop out during hard use, or if the weld is iffy before the *DanG thing was even finished.
Flash forward the the 1800's the bessemer forge was invented and high carbon steel became easy to mass produce, now anybody can afford high carbon steel and have it shipped to your front door overnight. So the only reason to make anything be it axes, knives, scissors... whatever out of 2 types of steel is purely for traditional reasons.
That being said pattern welded viking swords are still wicked cool, and cable demascus knives are just fun to make (but not worth the $1000's people are charging for them)
Quote from: thenorthman on February 05, 2014, 09:52:56 PM
Ok history lesson...
So the only reason to make anything be it axes, knives, scissors... whatever out of 2 types of steel is purely for traditional reasons.
)
Thanks for the explanation.. I thought it a bit odd.
Clearly a case where traditional construction is more likely to be less robust than a one piece head.
Wow, Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Redbark, Jhenderson, and moojpg. How 'bout that for three new members on the same thread. :)
No way will my axe that was built especially for me by John Neeman immediately after he recovered from his burns ever see the backside of a wedge. :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN0017S.JPG)
That would be akin to using a crescent wrench for a hammer. :o :o
Personally I use a caveman club to drive wedges. If I was going to carry an ax...which I am leaning towards doing...it would be one of these jewels
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/111266159316?lpid=82
Thanks for the welcome. I normally frequent arboristsite but the site has been all wonky lately so I figured I would migrate lol I own a small tree and rope access company in western MA. We work on high rise buildings, install ropes courses, teach rock climbing/caving, as well as tree work. We do mostly climbing arborist work and the occasional tricky removal. I have done some contract timber cutting to clear roads for a proposed wind power project. Most of my experience is on large red oak, maple, and white pine. I am kind of a chainsaw addict and we have way too much capital in saws ranging from the MS200t's all the way up to a couple ms660's, an ms880, and a mint condition Stihl 090 (all of which are rare around here for sure the 372xp is considered a big saw by most in this region) and most of the desirable husky's. Figure I can learn a few tricks from those of you in the logging industry as ya'll spend a lot more time felling trees than I ever will. I always pride myself in being proficient with a saw and being able to fell a tree accurately in a residential setting, when I have the room, saves us hours of work over the pop up tree hacks running around in bucket trucks piecing down trees that could just be felled and bucked. Also allows me to save some of the logs for milling. Nobody saves the nicer large diameter logs for milling around here either, all of it either sits to rot because they don't have the saw to cut it, or it gets hacked up for firewood which just frustrates the hell out of me.
To get back on topic, I've always just carried a small sledge hammer for driving wedges and kept an axe with my gas can. I've always been too afraid of tripping and falling on the axe head if it were on my belt, for whatever reason. I second the Fiskars axe for real world use, the composite handle is bullet proof, they stay sharp, and they aren't $100+ if u lose it or trash it. That Neeman axe is gorgeous but I don't see the point of using one of those for work every day.
I frequent alot of caves in my area...good stuff! Welcome to the forum!
Welcome moojpg and jhenderson. moojpg, sounds like some interesting and fun work you do!!
Welcome to the forum guys! Moojpg- where in Western Mass are you?
Jed
Being still fairly new to the forum I did not know the connection between John Neeman and this great forum. I also did not know the connection between John Neeman Tools and Autine other than sharing the John Neeman name. Knowing that you long time members helped get John Neeman back going again after his accident speaks volumes towards the integrity of everyone here!
Now knowing the story and the connection, the price tag on them does not mean anything to me. I want 2 of any of their tools one to hang on the wall as art and one to use in the woods (I know what I am saving for when x-mas comes around). This forum never stops amazing me!
wfcjr, I really enjoyed that video. Thanks for putting it up there.
I doubt if the ancient Craftsman Campers Axe that I keep in the tractor was made that way. It's a pain to carry so I try to find/make a club first.
Am i still considered new
Welcome to the Logging thread BigTlittleD 8) 8)
fiskars makes a realy nice axe comes with a lifetime warranty and you can get them rate at your local wallmart I got one and I realy like it
I have lost her a couple of times but she always comes back. Axe withdrawl can really get you where it hurts.
David l
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/29166/013%7E0.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/29166/012%7E1.JPG)
Paint it hot pink,you won't lose it and nobody will steal it ;D .Mines logrite blue.
Ed K , an oldtimer buddy says blue is the best color for working in the snow as you see it the best he claims. Is that true.
David l
It is easy to see,alot better than the hot pink ;D .Just don't let it go flying in deep soft snow,I kicked snow for 15 mins :D
Quote from: Big timber little dozer on February 06, 2014, 04:09:59 PM
Am i still considered new
:D OK, Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Big timber little dozer. :)
BTLD, Welcome, got carried away with all the good axe stuff.
David l
welcome to the three new guys. The real trick in using an axe in the woods is still having it at the end of the day. It has taken me over 30 years to finally find a method of carrying a axe so I could sit on the skidder, walk through brush and not loose my axe. What I use is cheap and I have found nothing that has worked any better to grab my axe yet still let me draw it out so I can pound wedges and still holster it back up again without looking.
What I did was take some electric fencing wire and make about 8 loops around the axe handle through two holes in my belt. I have a re-enforced section of my belt that consists of another old belt that has eyelets in it. The wire forms to the shape of the axe handle, is flexible enough so the axe will ride up when you sit in the seat of the loader or skidder.
I am sure over the years I have lost more than 15 axes. I go for the $14.99 axe that Central Tractor sells and cut about 8 inches off the handle. it is a 2 1/2 pound boys axe. This leaves me a straight tool that I use to dig under logs with go get my chains under them. I always have it with me it and I digs great compared to looking for a stick. The next thing I do is grind down the axe on the cutting surface. It comes to thick to really chop well when your getting your saw out of that limb you guess wrong with and pinched it. It is heavy enough to drive wedges. I used to use Fiskar but they are two light for really driving wedges
I have to say, thanks to you guys, I've learned more about how to use, make and repair an axe than I thought possible.
I cut wood on my farm in the Finger Lakes area of NY. I cut access trails through my woods on foot to keep damage to a minimum so I need my axe with me at all times. I think maybe the Fiskers 15 may be a good choice. I love the handmade axes but after all, the reason I asked you guys for ideas on a new axe is because my old one is buried beneath the snow somewhere. Redbark
I would say get a champion but we would all lose it so.... ::)
David L- I paint most of my woods tools blue, as I find it is the easiest color to pick out amongst the leaves, brush, snow, and dirt. I've been told the blue it is color least often naturally produced in nature which is why our eye picks it up so well.
That said, my wedge pounding axes are usually painted red on the handle. Maybe that's why I lost one this week...
I use a Stihl PA 20 splitting hatchet, which has about a 20" handle and a 2.75# head. This is not the outcome of any lengthy research, it's just what I could easily find when I lost my previous Axe.
I had switched to a stubby little hammer with a 4 pound head. I figured the weight would help when driving wedges. As it turned out, it was just too short, so it took a lot more arm power to drive the wedge. I didn't want to go to a full length axe, since I wanted something easy to carry and to fit in my felling job box. The PA 20 fit the bill. Long enough to be able to get a decent swing with it, but short enough to be easy to carry, and the back side of the head seems to have enough meat on it to handle wedge pounding without distorting the eye.
I tied about 18" of yellow surveyor's tape to the handle to avoid misplacing it. I still lose it enough that I end up using a club cut from a limb a good bit of the time.
Fluorescent orange if I cant see that its gone for good
All of my "woods" tools have a turn of 3M fluorescent orange tape. They reflect like the truck's tail light.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0558.JPG)
That makes them easily found with a flashlight after it gets late.
I'm a little bit color blind, pink looks brown, but bright blue just looks weird in the brush so it sticks out good. And blaze orange is getting to be so common place that it doesn't really stick out anymore, not that it ever really did to me. Hence the reason my tin hats are always blue.
I should do something about my axes... spend an awful lot of time looking for them.
I need one of those things on my axe like what makes your car "chirp" when you hit the remote door lock.
I don't know why it's just axes. I don't lose wedges, gloves, stump vises or any other tools.
Magicman
Good tip, I like that.
Quote from: John Mc on February 11, 2014, 09:32:09 AM
I need one of those things on my axe like what makes your car "chirp" when you hit the remote door lock.
I don't know why it's just axes. I don't lose wedges, gloves, stump vises or any other tools.
Axes cost more than the other tools you mentioned
I use a 2.5 pound boys axe most of the time.My 3.5 pound axe is better for limbing.I have a double bit axe my dad used.I dont like the narrow polled custom made axes or their high prices.My axe heads get a coat of orange paint.Same for chains, put in a coil and spray with orange paint.There are some very high priced axes with fancy paint jobs being sold.You dont want paint on a wooden handle.My Uncle Bud gave me his axe when I moved to Maine 45 years ago.Find an old axe that hasnt been abused, put a new handle on it.
I like your reflective tape idea, MagicMan. I'll have to add some of that
My idea with the 18" of surveyor's tape tied on was that if the axe sank into the snow, the end of the tape might still show (not a problem I'd guess you have too often in MS). The problem is, I probably need something a bit more durable.
I worked with a guy once who painted his axe with pink and blue stripes. Neither color is common in the woods and he found that having more than one color really made it stand out.
Right now I use a Fiskars X15 and like it. If we aren't cutting very big wood I just carry a Stihl felling lever. Not ideal for pounding wedges but works ok if your not wedging many over in a day.
I've always been partial to the estwing hatchets, and hammers. They drive wedges better than any traditional hatchets you can find around here. Typically don't even have to hit hard they just drive good. I know estwing makes larger ones also if you can find it. Always wanted to try the fiskars one. I have a small one from a big game cleaning kit it comes in handy for kiddlin And emergency needs.
I carried a 5 lb. Collins when I was falling timber. I had that axe for almost 20 years, until I let one of my cutters use it when he lost his. He got a DWI that weekend and lost his truck, my axe, a pair of my chaps, my log tape, and a good tin hard had. The cops were pretty narrow minded, I never got any of my stuff back. :(
I usually carry a 3 lb. axe now, since I'm not cutting many big trees.
The trick to not loosing axes is to carry them on your person, and not leave them laying around in the woods.
I don't use an axe in the woods per say. I log in the winter and cut most (if not all ) my limbs with the saw.
My logging belt contains. My logging tape , a hammer sling that holds my pulp hook , and a pouch with my chainsaw tools and thats it.
Would like to carry a axe but seems a bit of a bother no more than I would use it.
I do have an axe on my snowmobile at all times and would not leave home without it.
Quebecnewf
The times I actually use the bit end of my axe are few and far between. I generally only use it for driving wedges. Some elbow problems got me away from always using a club cut from a limb (though I still do it at times)
I've tried the club thing on wedges a couple of times. It felt like I was getting beat about as bad as the wedges. I don't understand how directional falling can be done without wedges (and in my case an axe).
i agree i think a Collins axe would be your best bet, just since a hand forged axe will cost hundreds and it would be a shame if it hit a rock or something when using it... the problem with that nice of tools is you barely want to use them and harm there perfection ... that's how I feel anyways
I pack a boys axe, 21/2 lb, think it is a Collins, not sure I have had it for years lol. Like Redprospector said if you pack it on you you won't loose it. I have a loop on the back of my belt. ED
Quote from: John Mc on February 10, 2014, 05:13:37 PM
I use a Stihl PA 20 splitting hatchet, which has about a 20" handle and a 2.75# head. This is not the outcome of any lengthy research, it's just what I could easily find when I lost my previous Axe.
I had switched to a stubby little hammer with a 4 pound head. I figured the weight would help when driving wedges. As it turned out, it was just too short, so it took a lot more arm power to drive the wedge. I didn't want to go to a full length axe, since I wanted something easy to carry and to fit in my felling job box. The PA 20 fit the bill. Long enough to be able to get a decent swing with it, but short enough to be easy to carry, and the back side of the head seems to have enough meat on it to handle wedge pounding without distorting the eye.
I tied about 18" of yellow surveyor's tape to the handle to avoid misplacing it. I still lose it enough that I end up using a club cut from a limb a good bit of the time.
Thank you John Mc. I've been looking for an axe exactly like that. Sounds perfect size for carrying in a Grizzly back scabdard when felling. I've been looking every where for an axe and never thought to look at the Stihl offerings. Forestry Forum is still the best!
I am pretty sure you know that it is a 5 year old thread you've responded to, But I am tagging @John Mc (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=6836) just so he might see it.
That ax looks and awful lot like the rafting (type) ax I just built up for myself 2 weeks ago. Good luck with it, I like mine.
Since you're tagging John, I'll go ahead and give him my suggestion of drilling a hole in the handle, and putting some bright paracord through it. Might make it easier to find.
Quote from: chester_tree _farmah on October 25, 2019, 06:12:28 PM
Quote from: John Mc on February 10, 2014, 05:13:37 PM
I use a Stihl PA 20 splitting hatchet, which has about a 20" handle and a 2.75# head. This is not the outcome of any lengthy research, it's just what I could easily find when I lost my previous Axe.
I had switched to a stubby little hammer with a 4 pound head. I figured the weight would help when driving wedges. As it turned out, it was just too short, so it took a lot more arm power to drive the wedge. I didn't want to go to a full length axe, since I wanted something easy to carry and to fit in my felling job box. The PA 20 fit the bill. Long enough to be able to get a decent swing with it, but short enough to be easy to carry, and the back side of the head seems to have enough meat on it to handle wedge pounding without distorting the eye.
I tied about 18" of yellow surveyor's tape to the handle to avoid misplacing it. I still lose it enough that I end up using a club cut from a limb a good bit of the time.
Thank you John Mc. I've been looking for an axe exactly like that. Sounds perfect size for carrying in a Grizzly back scabdard when felling. I've been looking every where for an axe and never thought to look at the Stihl offerings. Forestry Forum is still the best!
Grizzly Peak actually makes a scabbard specifically for this Stihl hatchet. I bought one and wear it on the back of my tool belt when felling. It has completely solved my lost axe problem.
I don't think I saw that one on their site, but good to know. I just got a new one the beginning of the week fr the new ax. Love their stuff, simple and it works just perfect. I would like to quiet it down a little, but it doesn't bother me enough to make it up to the 'to-do' list.
Grizzly Peak scabbard for Stihl Splitting Hatchet (https://grizzlypeakenterprises.com/products/stihl-splitting-hatchet-scabbard)
If you go to their "Shop" menu and click on Axe Scabbards, you'll see about a dozen different sizes they make.
Yeah, I went and checked after I posted. Should have looked first. ;D
Anyway, I like their stuff. Have one for my smaller ax, but it wouldn't go with the bigger one. I also ordered a belt from them this time, should have done that a year ago too.
Quote from: Old Greenhorn on October 25, 2019, 07:36:51 PM
I am pretty sure you know that it is a 5 year old thread you've responded to, But I am tagging @John Mc (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=6836) just so he might see it.
That ax looks and awful lot like the rafting (type) ax I just built up for myself 2 weeks ago. Good luck with it, I like mine.
Nice. Thank you for tagging John. ;D