The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Timber Framing/Log construction => Topic started by: ballen on May 13, 2011, 12:53:52 PM

Title: How to protect my timber pile on the lot?
Post by: ballen on May 13, 2011, 12:53:52 PM
Hi All,
I am about to take delievery of a dismantled barn frame.  However, I will not be using it for a year, maybe 2.  I am going up this weekend to clear a storage spot on the property to store the timbers and am looking for ideas for simple lean-to's or other structure I could build out of fallen trees to create a rough shelter for the timbers.  I have 24"x72" metal roofing I can use as a roof in an effort to keep the beams out of the weather as much as possible.  Does anyone have any ideas or pictures of what they have done to store their beams (longest one is 40')?
Thanks
Title: Re: How to protect my timber pile on the lot?
Post by: Tom on May 13, 2011, 01:05:20 PM
The best thing would be an inclosed building, next best might be a pole barn type structure with sides that you could hang tarps on  to keep the weather out.  A flow of air wouldn't hurt even if the lumber you salvage is already dry.  If you are going to use it soon, flat stacking might save you storage room. 

I would be most concerned about insect damage.  Using freshly downed timbers for poles, etc., may attract insects that would get into the lumber and timbers.   Eighteen inches has always been a good rule of thumb to raise wood off of the ground to keep termites at bay.  Powder post beetles will attack it regardles of how high you get it.  For that reason, it might also be a smart thing to treat it with a borax type protector, like Timbor, or make something yourself.

If you get the stacks off of the ground, you could use the stack itself for the support of the roof.  Just build the roof on top of the stack and tie it down.  Make sure that it overhangs enough to keep weather from blowing in through the sides.

Frequent inspection would be a lot of help too. 
Title: Re: How to protect my timber pile on the lot?
Post by: witterbound on May 13, 2011, 04:11:41 PM
We protected my timbers with a really really big blue tarp.  We screwed two long 2x4s to the bottom of each side, then draped it over the stack, and tied the corners down.  It still let plenty of air get in from the bottom and ends.  It was a relatively inexpensive way to do it, not as good as inside or a lean to, but it held up very well for the 9 months we needed it.  I just couldn't justify the cost of the tin for a lean to roof.
Title: Re: How to protect my timber pile on the lot?
Post by: ballen on May 16, 2011, 08:58:21 AM
Thanks for the replies.
The Borate suggestions is one I hadn't thought of and will look into. 
My main fear is porcupines who seem to nibble on just about everything.
I was able to get the spot cleared this past weekend and layered a couple fallen trees (old) as rails to stack on top of to keep the beams off the ground.
Will plastic deer fence keep most animals (like porcupines) out? If I can't build an actual structure to hold the metal roofing (due to time and available labor), I may just lay the metal roofing on top and wrap the sides with something to keep the animals out (like deer fence).
Would still appreciate any additional thoughts.
Thanks
Bill
Title: Re: How to protect my timber pile on the lot?
Post by: Raphael on May 17, 2011, 12:59:24 AM
I wouldn't just lay the roofing on top, you really want a good air space between the roof and the timbers...
Otherwise it's a good way to rot the top layer of timbers, don't ask me how I know.  ::)
Title: Re: How to protect my timber pile on the lot?
Post by: Tom on May 17, 2011, 05:09:05 AM
Putting your timbers on untreated wood (logs) that are in intimate contact with the ground is a sure path to the timbers through the logs.  You would be much better off with a foundation supported by concrete block columns, secondly by treated timbers.  Even concrete block that is used with the holes vertical and no cap on top allows termites, etc., to build their runs inside and out of sight.

Even if you think that you will process this stuff soon, prepare for a longer storage.
Title: Re: How to protect my timber pile on the lot?
Post by: ballen on May 17, 2011, 08:38:38 AM
Tom,
Thanks for the reminder about having a path for termites.  I don't have any cinder blocks available but have plenty of rocks. Alternatively, I may just lay some of the salvaged metal roofing between the logs on the ground and the first layer of timbers.  Hope that will do the trick.

Raphael,
If I don't get a structure built and need to lay the metal roofing on top of the actual timbers, would laying it on some spare 4x4 be enough air space?  I'll either screw it down to the 4x4 or drape rope tied to rocks over the whole pile. Luckily, it's a very protected spot (wind wise).
Title: Re: How to protect my timber pile on the lot?
Post by: Raphael on May 17, 2011, 05:55:40 PM
I think I'd try to get more space than the 3.5" a 4x4 would give you and try to minimize contact between the roof support material and the timbers.  Part of the problem I had was condensation being trapped between the top layer of cribbing and the timbers.

I was thinking a few lengths of 6 or 8" PVC pipe (pinned to the roofing) would do the job nicely as you could easily slide the whole assembly an inch or so along the timbers occasionally and limit the chance of striping.  Ropes running through the pipes can hold everything down as well provide a sub-structure to flare a tarp away from the timbers.
Title: Re: How to protect my timber pile on the lot?
Post by: shelbycharger400 on June 03, 2011, 08:25:00 PM
Diazinon   found in the garden section.
its in a foil like 20 lb bag at walmart ect,    it will keep most of the ground bugs away,  kills ants , beatles,  grubs ect.   but wont stop flying insects once they are in the wood.   
boracare... is 80 a gal   
their is a homebrew solution similar to boracare,  mixing boric acid with borax soap, but i have never tried it yet
as is a solution of green antifreeze and borax soap/ boric acid.
Title: Re: How to protect my timber pile on the lot?
Post by: shelbycharger400 on June 03, 2011, 08:30:14 PM
http://www.bearfortlodge.com/bearfort_lodge/2006/12/log-home-repair-restoration-replacing-chinking-and-fixing-logs-part-vi-home-brew-wood-and-log-preservative/

http://alsnetbiz.com/homeimprovement/homemade.html

check these out
Title: Re: How to protect my timber pile on the lot?
Post by: shinnlinger on June 21, 2011, 06:49:53 AM
Down the road from here is a company that dismantles old barns and resells them.  They have many frames piled on stringers as suggested(make sure they are level with each other) with a simple flat roof of metal roofing with decent overhang.   They have timbers acting as spacers, but you could put them on stickers to minimize stripes.  I like the idea of 6+" pipe but I bet that is expensive.

The last thing you want is to wrap it up under a tarp, let it breath! but we don't have a termite problem in NH yet....
Title: Re: How to protect my timber pile on the lot?
Post by: ballen on June 21, 2011, 09:03:13 AM
Thanks for all the suggestions. Turns out I was able to salvage two perfectly good canvas cabana tops from a local pool...they are each 40'x10'.  I also got some nice 6' tall chain link fence cheap on craigslist (which I need to keep the porcupines from chewing on my nice old hand hewn timbers). So, now the plan is to build 2 fenced in areas the size of the canvas roofs and stick the timbers under.

If I put old metal roofing between the first stick and the first layer of timbers, I'm hoping that will stop insects.  May also do the borate spray as suggested just to make sure.

I haven't yet designed the best way to hold up the canvas roof but figure I can design something off the fence posts that will keep it from sagging too much.
Title: Re: How to protect my timber pile on the lot?
Post by: shelbycharger400 on June 21, 2011, 04:50:30 PM
just let you know,  if its real canvas,   mold will grow on that stuff. 
Title: Re: How to protect my timber pile on the lot?
Post by: shinnlinger on June 21, 2011, 11:19:37 PM
Put enough stickers on the top of your pile to create an airspace between the canvas and the wood.  If air can circulate it will dry the wood even if it gets a little wet, but how big is your pile?  I think metal roofing will be alot easier to deal with.

Dave
Title: Re: How to protect my timber pile on the lot?
Post by: ballen on October 28, 2011, 11:46:48 AM
Update on my beam storage issue:

A friend who is a steel worker got me a ton of 4x4's to use as sticks.  They come with steel beam deliveries and usually end up in the land fill:-(
I also had a few telephone poles and some salvaged metal roofing so I came up with the following plan:

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20612/Beam_Storage.jpg)

Here it is in real life.  The tarps came from a country club that replaced their pool side shade so everything in this scheme was recycled at a five finger discount:-)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20612/Beam_Storage_pic.jpg)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20612/Beam_Storage_tarp.jpg)

The metal roofing on the ground is to keep moisture and plants away.  The roofing under each 1st layer stick is to keep the bugs away.

I should probably still spray with something as the wood will be in this position for a couple of years.  Only 1/2 the load has been delievered so far.  I have 2 full barns coming and lot's of planning to do....

Thanks for any additional comments/suggestions....
Title: Re: How to protect my timber pile on the lot?
Post by: sawguy21 on October 28, 2011, 10:38:11 PM
Off topic but it's real tough seeing that wreath with Tom's posts.
Title: Re: How to protect my timber pile on the lot?
Post by: edkemper on November 01, 2011, 07:09:46 PM
If it's really important, what about renting storage place in town? One of those u-store-it places. May not be as convenient but how much is the wood worth?
Title: Re: How to protect my timber pile on the lot?
Post by: ballen on November 01, 2011, 07:45:32 PM
A couple of reasons I wanted to store on site...1) the cost of moving everything twice and 2) the plates and perlins are 42' long, ties are 30', etc...Don't have any storage places like that near me.

I'm hoping what I have set up will keep everything safe for a couple of years. Don't know the retail value but the 1840's hand hewn local beams are priceless to me!
Title: Re: How to protect my timber pile on the lot?
Post by: beenthere on November 01, 2011, 08:28:57 PM
ballen
That rigging might help for a couple years, but I wouldn't trust it more than that. The wind and snow and rain are going to take their toll on that cover arrangement. Just plan on constant vigil to keep it in as good a shape as possible. A bit more overhang would be helpful to keep the material under the tarp dry. If me, I'd have it another foot off the ground. But that would be me. ;)
Better safe than sorry.
Title: Re: How to protect my timber pile on the lot?
Post by: Rooster on November 01, 2011, 10:36:50 PM
I know a salvage guy who gets used billboard tarps and uses them to cover is barn material. 

http://www.billboardtarps.com/collections/tarps?gclid=CMbtl_DzlqwCFacEQAodOyenPw

If you made a make-shift frame you could drap one of these tarps over the top.

Or find someone who is trying to sell a used Coverall building.

Shipping containers are not long enough?  45ft?

Will you be building any out buildings on the property?  Something that you can build now, store your barn, and then build the house when you have time and money?

Lots of Qs!  ;)

Good luck,

Rooster
Title: Re: How to protect my timber pile on the lot?
Post by: ballen on November 02, 2011, 06:01:09 AM
Hi Rooster,
I was thinking of tarps like that to extend the sides of my current setup. I will research local sources. So far, all the parts of the shelter have been someone elses junk. Not only has that been free to me but it also keeps stuff out of the land fills:-)
I have access issues so bringing in a shipping container would be near impossible.
I am planning to build the garage/apartment first but it is also a salvaged barn frame and I have the on-lot sewage system to design, etc first.
Thanks for the thoughts...I have an unusual project here...i