Hello everyone,
This is my first post here so I'll try to keep on point. I currently have two stihl chainsaws "ms-660 and ms-441" I like the ms-660 it's a very nice saw. Held up really well. I have about 700 cords of wood to cut this summer and was thinking of getting a ms-880. The problem that I'm having with the ms-660 is that it doesn't seem to hold its weight when it comes to torque, yes its has a much higher rpm rating but when I cut large timber I wonder if the ms-880 would cut faster. I talked to the dealer and he said that the ms-660 would cut faster because of its rpm being faster, but like I said I wonder "the ms-880 obviously has much more torque" I would still use the ms-660 to limb and fell. The timber is soft wood (ponderosa pine) from 16" to 36". I am currently using 28" bars, what size bar would you guys recommend for the ms-880, providing that I buy one.
Any though or have any of you used a ms-880 be for?
Thanks for your time, Robert ???
Are you using skip tooth chain?
Stonebroke
For 36" softwood an 880 is way overkill and the weight and size of it will tire you out in no time flat. The 660 should make quick work of that size wood.
Sounds like your 660 needs a tune up, or chain needs sharpening.
My 660 pulls skip chain on a 36" bar through 30+" hardwoods with ease.
i do not think you will find much difference in the two with a 28 on them but run a 42 and the 880 will shine. have you muffler modded your 660 and tuned the carb. i dont see how a 660 in ponderoso would not just screem. i run a modded ms460 in hardwood all day with no problems. that 660 has plenty of torque. the 880 is more suited for milling than felling in my opinion.
Quote from: stonebroke on February 24, 2010, 10:13:46 PM
Are you using skip tooth chain?
Stonebroke
Not sure.. I bought a roll and the dealer said that it would work well for soft woods, sounds like I need to tune the saw up. I though about modifying he muffler!
the exhaust exit on the muffler needes to be 75% the size of the exhust exit on the cylinder. pull the limiter caps on the carb and tune the saw with a tach to 13500-14000. without a tach tune it til it four strokes or burbles.
There are a multitude of steps to take before buying an 880 to cut firewood. You must be a monster of a man because most men aren't man enough to swing an 880 around all day long.
There is still a ton of power available in the 660, especially the newer ones. There is also a ton of speed to be gained through improvement of cutting style and sharpening technique. 80%-90% of chainsaw users are not very good at sharpening chains. If you're one of the minority who are very good, then you probably wouldn't be considering an 880 for cutting 16" firewood (unless you were into hotsaw competitions). 8)
One thing about the 880; it is a rough saw to run from the very high vibration levels. Running the 880 almost rattled my teeth fillings out. The 660 is a lot smoother. The 660 is 6 pounds lighter than an 880. 880 is also a bear to start; harder than a 660. Husky 395 was a lot easier to run as well.
I would add a dual port muffler to your 660 and re-tune the carb to richen up the H jet. I added a DP muffler to my 066 and it made a huge difference. I ran my 066 with a 32 inch bar in Doug fir after the DP muffler mod. No problemo.
DP muffler cover only for the 660 Mag: Stihl part number 1122 140 0800
DP muffler base and cover for the 660 Mag: Stihl part number 1122 140 0603
DP muffler cover for the 660 & 660 W: Stihl part number 1122 145 0801
DP muffler base and cover for the 660 & 660 W: Stihl part number 1122 140 0602
Quote from: windthrown on February 24, 2010, 11:43:52 PM
One thing about the 880; it is a rough saw to run from the very high vibration levels. Running the 880 almost rattled my teeth fillings out. The 660 is a lot smoother. The 660 is 6 pounds lighter than an 880. 880 is also a bear to start; harder than a 660. Husky 395 was a lot easier to run as well.
I would add a dual port muffler to your 660 and re-tune the carb to richen up the H jet. I added a DP muffler to my 066 and it made a huge difference. I ran my 066 with a 32 inch bar in Doug fir after the DP muffler mod. No problemo.Quote
Thanks you the info, I think I will work on my 660, dual the muffler and retune, will see what that does.
Set a little on the lean side you'll have no torque on any saw , just high RPM's. Steve
I have an ms880 and I'm not very satisfied. It is not well balanced in my opinion, but consider tha 28" bar is too short for that saw. I prefer to use husqvarna 3120, more handable and well balanced even in the fat run.
As an 084 owner I can tell you it's not what you want for daily use. The "fun factor" of the big saw goes away really quick if it's used for an extended period of time.
A properly tuned 660 will do most everything you need.
Ed
I have woods ported 066 and a stock and woods ported 084. Yes the stock MS660 is a down right dog.
Like others said put a dual port muffler and adjust your carb first off (if you have a cage inside the back muffler cover open it up too, plus the original exhaust outlet).
If that dont do it look for someone that knows how to do a proper woods port for you.
I usually only break out the 084's for the big rip cutting or biggies. Bucking type cuts, work on that 660 to get it up to par.
Quote from: Cut4fun on February 25, 2010, 01:48:37 PM
I have woods ported 066 and a stock and woods ported 084. Yes the stock MS660 is a down right dog.
Like others said put a dual port muffler and adjust your carb first off (if you have a cage inside the back muffler cover open it up too, plus the original exhaust outlet).
If that dont do it look for someone that knows how to do a proper woods port for you.
I usually only break out the 084's for the big rip cutting or biggies. Bucking type cuts, work on that 660 to get it up to par.
thanks for the info.. it all helps
Check with your stihl dealer on the 660 DP muffler cover. I dont think they have went up this much in 2 years have they?
http://cgi.ebay.com/STIHL-CHAINSAW-064-066-MS660-MUFFLER-COVER_W0QQitemZ360234434531QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Chainsaws?hash=item53dfa53fe3
What do you expect on FraudBay... :)
You can get them from Baileys for $55.
http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=QS+1122+140+0800&catID=
With shipping and everything added that is only $3.94 difference between FEEbay and Baileys. Baileys being cheaper, GOOD excuse to put a bigger order together. Thats what I usually do. 8)
I remember these being $42-$45 at one time, is what I was getting at. I would take a stock cover and open it up with a $8 288 deflector. Thats what I do with the 084 ones now to make my own DP covers.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12882/1883/Copy_of_Cavemanmufflermods_001.jpg)
What do you do with 700 cords of wood a year? Do you run a full time firewood buisiness?
There was a used 066 DP cover for sale on the Canadian FleaBay that got no bids. Its a little dinged up, but it was only $20 plus shipping to NA. Maybe email the guy and buy it direct:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/STIHL-MS-660-MAGNUM-CHAINSAW-DUAL-PORT-MUFFLER-COVER_W0QQitemZ160404335735QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Chainsaws?hash=item2558d7ec77
Yah gott'a hunt around for deals these days.
Quote from: footer on February 25, 2010, 10:37:02 PM
What do you do with 700 cords of wood a year? Do you run a full time firewood buisiness?
Well that would be a full time job . You could heat the average home on just the bark that fell off of that amount . :D
Big saws like the Ms 880 etc have their place but generally speaking aren't needed in most cases . I have 4 of over 100 cc plus one that only resides in my shed it being an 084 . They don't see much use .One reason a large saw lasts forever unless they are abused .
BTW a brand new 880 with a 42" bar is pushing two thou from a dealer .For that amount you could buy a little saw,mid sized ,90 cc and have enough money left over to go out to dinner .Maybe enough to buy a case of beer too .
Quote from: Al_Smith on February 26, 2010, 05:30:51 AM
Quote from: footer on February 25, 2010, 10:37:02 PM
What do you do with 700 cords of wood a year? Do you run a full time firewood buisiness?
Well that would be a full time job . You could heat the average home on just the bark that fell off of that amount . :D
Big saws like the Ms 880 etc have their place but generally speaking aren't needed in most cases . I have 4 of over 100 cc plus one that only resides in my shed it being an 084 . They don't see much use .One reason a large saw lasts forever unless they are abused .
BTW a brand new 880 with a 42" bar is pushing two thou from a dealer .For that amount you could buy a little saw,mid sized ,90 cc and have enough money left over to go out to dinner .Maybe enough to buy a case of beer too .
Yeah, like 13 1/2 cords a week for 52 weeks a year :-O..I have an 084 and love it! But my next smaller saw is an 034.
I don't even think about using the big saws until it gets over 30 inchs .In Ohio that doesn't happen that often .
I do try to run them enough to keep the cobwebs blown out though .
When I was cutting much more than I am now I had predicted the big saws spent a grand total of less than 5 hours per year among all of them .
The 084 in my shed which belongs to a tree trimmer spent less than that .Fact is just the time I spent running it at a GTG was the only run time it had gotten in two years .
Quote from: Al_Smith on February 26, 2010, 05:30:51 AM
Quote from: footer on February 25, 2010, 10:37:02 PM
What do you do with 700 cords of wood a year? Do you run a full time firewood buisiness?
Well that would be a full time job . You could heat the average home on just the bark that fell off of that amount . :D
Big saws like the Ms 880 etc have their place but generally speaking aren't needed in most cases . I have 4 of over 100 cc plus one that only resides in my shed it being an 084 . They don't see much use .One reason a large saw lasts forever unless they are abused .
BTW a brand new 880 with a 42" bar is pushing two thou from a dealer .For that amount you could buy a little saw,mid sized ,90 cc and have enough money left over to go out to dinner .Maybe enough to buy a case of beer too .
Yes maybe, but think about it? At 700 cords I plan on buying a 880, 660 and a 460 this year, bought two last year almost wore them out. The point being, do the math? It is a small price to pay for what you get out of it, oh and no, it is not a full time job, just something I work on the side at 10 cords a day or so.... Thanks for posting.
I cut usually around 100 cords a year, some years a little more and some years less. Depends on the year. I use a 044 and a 372 for my firewood saws, they will cut anything I need. I've had that 044 since the late 90's, been rebuilt once but shows no signs of giving up yet. If there not cutting firewood, there bucking logs.
Quote from: 7845Robert on February 28, 2010, 12:26:56 AM
Quote from: Al_Smith on February 26, 2010, 05:30:51 AM
Quote from: footer on February 25, 2010, 10:37:02 PM
What do you do with 700 cords of wood a year? Do you run a full time firewood buisiness?
Well that would be a full time job . You could heat the average home on just the bark that fell off of that amount . :D
Big saws like the Ms 880 etc have their place but generally speaking aren't needed in most cases . I have 4 of over 100 cc plus one that only resides in my shed it being an 084 . They don't see much use .One reason a large saw lasts forever unless they are abused .
BTW a brand new 880 with a 42" bar is pushing two thou from a dealer .For that amount you could buy a little saw,mid sized ,90 cc and have enough money left over to go out to dinner .Maybe enough to buy a case of beer too .
Yes maybe, but think about it? At 700 cords I plan on buying a 880, 660 and a 460 this year, bought two last year almost wore them out. The point being, do the math? It is a small price to pay for what you get out of it, oh and no, it is not a full time job, just something I work on the side at 10 cords a day or so.... Thanks for posting.
Just curious.....how do you do 10 cords a day part time?
About time for a processor.
Stonebroke
Are they face cords, or full cords?
Even 700 face cords is a lot of firewood.
Stonebroke
Is it possible to cut 10 full cords a day? Thats alot of wood.
Reading the OP post, he has not mentioned 700 cords of
firewood.
Just felling 700 cords of ponderosa pine. :)
QuoteI have about 700 cords of wood to cut this summer and was thinking of getting a ms-880.
OP said he would still use the 660 to limb and fell so that would leave me to believe that he wants to buck with the 880.
Stonebroke
Quote from: stonebroke on February 28, 2010, 03:28:09 PM
OP said he would still use the 660 to limb and fell so that would leave me to believe that he wants to buck with the 880.
Stonebroke
yes i am planning to buck this wood in rounds for firewood, actually we handle a lot of this wood by hand and i was thinking of ripping large timber in half, that would be rounds larger than 25". at least we wouldn't be breaking are backs loading wood splitters. thanks
Quote from: 7845Robert on February 28, 2010, 06:55:35 PM
Quote from: stonebroke on February 28, 2010, 03:28:09 PM
OP said he would still use the 660 to limb and fell so that would leave me to believe that he wants to buck with the 880.
Stonebroke
yes i am planning to buck this wood in rounds for firewood, actually we handle a lot of this wood by hand and i was thinking of ripping large timber in half, that would be rounds larger than 25". at least we wouldn't be breaking are backs loading wood splitters. thanks
Thats what I use the 084's for RIPPING 8). Quartering up the big stuff to smaller pieces for the firewood guys.
for 700 cords you could probably justify a firewood processor. Lots less work.
Stonebroke
Quote from: stonebroke on February 28, 2010, 08:03:29 PM
for 700 cords you could probably justify a firewood processor. Lots less work.
Stonebroke
Im starting to convince myself that i can justify building one and i only use between 5 and 10 cords a year :D
Either that, or spend some of the money making my house more energy efficient ::)
Quote from: stonebroke on February 28, 2010, 08:03:29 PM
for 700 cords you could probably justify a firewood processor. Lots less work.
Stonebroke
I'm trying not to get this post off course, but by the time you drag a wood processor into the sight, skid logs bigger than 6" (with some ten thousand dollar) skidder over to a seventy thousand dallor wood processor that they claim will cut and split 7 cords an hour, I can do just as good with a saw and sharp chain. We don't skid logs, I chop them into pieces right where they fall, load then and I bet you that faster than a wood processor, "skidding logs take time and machinery, and wood processors take both", thanks everyone for posting.... Rob :P
Quote from: tlandrum on February 24, 2010, 10:49:20 PM
the exhaust exit on the muffler needes to be 75% the size of the exhaust exit on the cylinder. pull the limiter caps on the carb and tune the saw with a tach to 13500-14000. without a tach tune it til it four strokes or burbles.
Factory spec is 12,500 - 13,000 rpm. Some saws like to run faster, depending on this or that. I'd recommend using a tach in any case, unless the OP already has a well calibrated ear.
You can just open up the existing muffler hole rather than buying the dual port.
7845Robert, it would help if you would edit your profile to show your location. What I'm getting at is, what is your elevation ?
All saws lose power at altitude. The 660 is especially affected by altitude because it usually comes from the factory with a tame compression ratio and excessive exhaust duration. The result is a narrow power band that's short on mid-range grunt. I can understand why a 660 would be bogging in 36" ponderosa pine if it were at several thousand feet elevation, with the restrictive factory muffler, and perhaps a poorly tuned carb.
But I don't think an 880 is the answer, unless you are built like superman. Focus on getting the 660 running better. Try the improved muffler and tach tune first.
If that's doesn't do the job, consider having a 660 woods ported, with a pop-up piston to raise compression. It'll cost you several hundred to have the work done, but like you say, this is a business for you and time is money.
Keep us posted.
7845Robert
Sure would like to see some pics of your operation.
Quote from: mtngun on March 01, 2010, 12:29:49 AM
..................
7845Robert, it would help if you would edit your profile to show your location. ..................
Yes mtngun, it would help ;) ;) ;D
:D OK, my location has been updated. ;D
8)
Quote from: 7845Robert on February 28, 2010, 11:13:32 PM
Quote from: stonebroke on February 28, 2010, 08:03:29 PM
for 700 cords you could probably justify a firewood processor. Lots less work.
Stonebroke
I’m trying not to get this post off course, but by the time you drag a wood processor into the sight, skid logs bigger than 6” (with some ten thousand dollar) skidder over to a seventy thousand dallor wood processor that they claim will cut and split 7 cords an hour, I can do just as good with a saw and sharp chain. We don’t skid logs, I chop them into pieces right where they fall, load then and I bet you that faster than a wood processor, “skidding logs take time and machinery, and wood processors take both”, thanks everyone for posting…. Rob :P
You must still be young and energetic!!!!
Stonebroke
hi everyone, i have updated my profile, 9,000ft. to 10,500ft.
:D :D
Still kidding around, huh? ::) ::)
Quote from: beenthere on March 01, 2010, 12:54:23 AM
Quote from: mtngun on March 01, 2010, 12:29:49 AM
..................
7845Robert, it would help if you would edit your profile to show your location. ..................
Yes mtngun, it would help ;) ;) ;D
i updated my pro, i'm cutting at 10,000 feet sometimes higher and sometimes lower at about 8,500 or so.... i should have posted that in my opening, sorry... Rob
You dont need a pop piston in a 066. Mine has been doing fine in big wood and small wood cuttings for years.
Even at the GTG's it was the 066 being chased at the top. Still running a stock oem piston with no lightening of piston or extra window opening. Becareful of your builders, some charge $300 for added pop up pistons and their saws dont perform any better.
The builder has to know how to do more then just high compression with a pop up, it's all about the porting IMHO.
Buyers beware ask in PM's about builders. There is guys doing porting else where as sponsors that is just taking your $$$ for half the work. If it is all you have ever run you wouldnt know the difference, but when you show up to a GTG and see the real stuff. You soon be asking why.
Case in point guy shows up to Jan GTG with 2 saws from a very hyped up builder with pop up pistons a NE346 and 390. The 346 was one of the worst 346 i have ever ran woods ported. The 390 felt like a strong STOCK muffler modded saw IMHO. Both saws were 6 months old and SOLD after the GTG when owner seen how they compared to other woods ported saws.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21GX7mLg_gA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkvHZY_uwBg
Cutting at 10,000 feet is going to rob power for sure. Even at 6,000 feet you have 80% of the oxygen compared to sea level, and at 10,000 feet you have only 70%. Less oxygen, less power. So at your cutting altitudes, your 660 is like running a 440 at sea level (at best). Unlike humans, your saw cannot adapt to the higher altitude. A muffler mod would help greatly though. You need to get more oxygen into that thing.
Quote from: windthrown on March 01, 2010, 05:16:35 PM
Cutting at 10,000 feet is going to rob power for sure. Even at 6,000 feet you have 80% of the oxygen compared to sea level, and at 10,000 feet you have only 70%. Less oxygen, less power. So at your cutting altitudes, your 660 is like running a 440 at sea level (at best). Unlike humans, your saw cannot adapt to the higher altitude. A muffler mod would help greatly though. You need to get more oxygen into that thing.
How about a Turbo? ;D
Quote from: footer on March 02, 2010, 08:56:12 PM
Quote from: windthrown on March 01, 2010, 05:16:35 PM
Cutting at 10,000 feet is going to rob power for sure. Even at 6,000 feet you have 80% of the oxygen compared to sea level, and at 10,000 feet you have only 70%. Less oxygen, less power. So at your cutting altitudes, your 660 is like running a 440 at sea level (at best). Unlike humans, your saw cannot adapt to the higher altitude. A muffler mod would help greatly though. You need to get more oxygen into that thing.
How about a Turbo? ;D
Now you're talking, i could just imagine after about three seconds or so it would start to wind up and that would be very cool, though heavier. instead of magnum or pro it would read Turbo Chain!!! :D
According to the stihl catalog, the max recomended bar size on a ms660 is 36" but do you guys ever run bigger bars that that?
A 36" is just about the standard size used by most pro tree men in these parts .Something like a 20-24-28 they use smaller saws .
Quite frankly although most of them have 066/660's they don't get used that much .As I've said before the over 100 CC's very seldom .
I cannot knock the 066/660 because it has became over the years the standard most saws are compaired to very similar to rating auto carbs to a Stromberg model 97 .
How are the 066's compared to the 660's? I'm trying to look at a 066 for sale locally.
They are essentially the same saw. Some variations occurred during the production run. The latest 066 versions had the poly flywheel like the 660 does. Any of that series are good saws. I think a late model 066 would be the most desirable one of the bunch but it would be more likely to have more wear on it.
If you get a rebuilt one, whether it has oem or aftermarket parts can affect its value.
A short bar reduces the value a bit too. These saws sell for about $350 to $750 depending. The $500 you mentioned is probably an ok price but not a steal by any means with a 20" bar. It should have no issues for that price.
My first year 1992 Stihl 066 Mag [with factory dual outlet muffler] still had not upgraded to the poly flywheel yet and I have one of those 066's too. My poly model doesn't even come close in performance to my older 066, and the older one has a lot more hours on it and still has never had it's cylinder removed yet.
But let me take you back to 1986 when I bought my first year Stihl 064. Now this was a beautiful high performance saw with one of the best factory power to weight ratio ever produced.......... 85cc at 14.1 lbs [ lighter then todays mid 70cc class MS 460] When the 066 came out in the early '90's I was quite disappointed how it turned into a heavy bulky pig. Other then that the 066 proved to be a durable saw.
To the OP just curious, what is the average dbh and height of the ponderosas you are cutting? Must be pretty good size if you can singlehandedly cut and load in firewood rounds a log truck worth of wood a day, and still consider it "part time". That is a fair amount of wood for one guy to move, skidding or not.
By part-time, I think he meant he was doing it only in the summer, not year round. I hope he has someone helping him to make those numbers, because to think someone could do that by themself would be rather depressing to someone like me!
A good man on a Cat 518 or Clarke Ranger 666 line skidder could cut and skid 30 cord of tree length a day by himself.
Quote from: HolmenTree on June 07, 2013, 09:07:00 AM
A good man on a Cat 518 or Clarke Ranger 666 line skidder could cut and skid 30 cord of tree length a day by himself.
agreed Holmentree. In good wood, I have done that myself, pulling my own line and setting and letting off my own chokers. But he said he wasn't using any type of skidder. And he was blocking that much wood in a day! That is quite a feat for one guy!
Quote from: mad murdock on June 07, 2013, 09:42:57 AM
Quote from: HolmenTree on June 07, 2013, 09:07:00 AM
A good man on a Cat 518 or Clarke Ranger 666 line skidder could cut and skid 30 cord of tree length a day by himself.
agreed Holmentree. In good wood, I have done that myself, pulling my own line and setting and letting off my own chokers. But he said he wasn't using any type of skidder. And he was blocking that much wood in a day! That is quite a feat for one guy!
Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. :-\
Ok now I see what Op was saying .I didn't read far enough back on this thread
Pretty big figures with out any decent machinery.
When I used to grade lumber at the sawmill I had to get out into the bush on my time off and move some 18" firewood .
I'd drive my old 3 ton dump right into stands of birch and then fell, block up and pile it onto the truck.
I could load over 2 cords on that old gravel box with side extensions. Then deliver it 5 miles down into cottage country and make $200. On a full 8- 10 hr day I could make 2 trips, sure couldn't do that every day though....... :D
When I was around 30 years old I could buck,split ,move and stack around 2 cords on a good day .That was splitting with an axe .I can still get 2 cords but that is on a short haul ( 500 feet ) and with a hydraulic splitter .I certainly don't do it every day though ,rarely .
700 cords of processed length firewood is one gigantic amount .
He must be descended from Paul Bunyan!