It seems most of the threads I searched used 3/4" or 4/4" T&G.
I am raising the floor in my garage and am thinking of using some 2X T&G material that I can get cut locally rather than 1" T&G plywood as my decking over my sleepers. My project will require me to actually use the floor as is without any other covering for upwards of a year, so I thought the hemlock T&G might look better than plywood. It might even be clear enough to finish and leave as the finished floor?
Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to make them as squeak proof and tight as possible.
I was thinking of nailing through the groove, so the nails don't show and using adhesive, but am open for suggestions.
Welcome to the Forum...
Can you give more information about the floor in your garage? What will be under the sleepers..?? soil, rock, concrete,..??
The existing floor is concrete slab. The floor grade needs to be raised 14 inches, so I am using roughcut 2X12s on 24" centers with blocking as my sleepers. Then either 2X T&G or 1" T&G plywood with a 4/4 hemlock flooring.
Thanks
Welcome to the forum!!!
What is the purpose of raising the floor? Will it have a load on it?
I'm sorry. I guess this topic, or actually the way I described it doesn't really fit with this forum. Although I have posted only twice I have been reading this forum for over a year. It has been extremely valuable in my planning for my timber framing. I certainly appreciate everyones expertise.
I am in the process of turning a stick built garage space into a eat in/kitchen, which will be attached to a timber frame addition to my house. The planning for the space is complete. I just need to know if anyone has experience using 2X car decking( which are 2X4 or 2X6 or even 2X8 T&G) as a subfloor or finished floor, and how did they attach it to the floor joists? I see by reading the archives that face nailing with cut nails is one option, but does anyone have experience with how much squeaking you get when the boards move with the humidity changes?
Thanks for any input?
I'm thinking, it depends on what is going to happen in that 12" space between the flooring and the concrete garage floor. If it will be heated, then the flooring (decking) will dry out and may squeak. If that space is high in moisture, you may not get the squeaking but instead may get decay/mold/deterioration.
If you lay down adhesive on the stringers, and nail in the tongue, and the wood is dry when laid, and the space is heated for low humidity,...then you may not have any squeaking, or very little.
Not an easy call....as it depends on a few things.
The space below the floor... Hmmm! ???
Even though I was the builder of the original building, and poured the slap with moisture barrier underneath, I first I did the moisture check of the slab for a month. I taped 1 foot squares of plastic down to the slab to see if I got any moisture, which I did not. This was during a period of PLENTY of rain here. The next step just for my personality type, is I will put down 30lb. felt with mastic to prevent any future moisture problem.
Then the 2X12s go down with 2" rigid foam between the sleepers. I thought about using radiant heat, but for this application it doesn't make sense. The space will be heated traditionally. Then the plywood or 2X T&G
As far as the moisture content of the lumber. I plan stickering the material in the garage to dry for around 3-5 months prior to it being used.
I have done quite a few hardwood floors but nothing like you're talking about here. Beenthere has a good point. It will dry out and it may squeak. However, I can honestly say I've had very good luck and very few squeaks whenever I've faced nailed the boards. It seems to keep the board more stable and less apt to "rock" than just nailing through the tongue. However, then you have to figure out if you can deal with the looks of a face nailed floor. I like it others don't. You may be good with the glue and nailing through the tongue with a 2x4. Not sure I would try that with a 2x6 or 2x8. I think I would use glue as has already been suggested regardless of how the boards are nailed. Just my 2c.
I T&G lots of 2x6's and 2x8's for floors out of SYP and find it best to use glue and face screw the boards down. There is lots more force to pull a nail back up over 4/4 stock.
Thats a pretty common log home second floor. We've blind nailed or blind screwed if it was a finish floor. If it's a subfloor I've usually face nailed or screwed it. If you start with blind fasteners on a finish floor you can always come back with face fasteners later.
GREAT idea!!!
I think my plan will be to blind nail and glue. Then after it has been down a few months, should I decide to use it as a finish floor, I can add cut nails, and if I decide to cover it with 4/4 flooring, I'll shoot or screw it down first, then add the finish flooring.
What do you think?
Hey, what's wrong with a floor that squeaks? I always thought that added character to a home- great for discussion of ghosts and such also. Do we sometimes get too anal-retentive on what is, afterall, just a stopping point on the great journey? Right now I have problems with the house I built and have lived in for almost ten years, but too many new and exciting things to do to worry about the details, till they become a real problem. Not the best pro-active approach, but I have grandsons to play with and wood to cut and miles to go before I sleep (to plagerize Robert Frost). How do we find the right balance between almost-perfection and usability anyway?
Lj
Being of the male persuasion, if I'm dry, have a roof to keep the rain off and a fire, life is good. My opinion is of no importance though, when she's happy I'm happy.
A lighthearted way of saying it is whatever the client expects.
I married well, our floor squeeks ;D
Will there be vehicles parked in the garage? The reason I ask is that they will be bringing in snow, ice and in the summer water. What will that do to your floor? I would expect swelling of the glued and screwed flooring.
Quote from: Dana on April 25, 2008, 07:02:58 AM
Will there be vehicles parked in the garage?
It's a kitchen.......
Don, does the floor squeak becauase you married good? ;)
Lj and Don P; you boys speeka my language! :)
Clovis
My floor squeaks because I married a good cook. It keeps people from sneeking up on me as well.
I kinda resemble that remark myself Arky even if Lindy couldn't cook when we got married. She learned quick though.
Sorry to piggyback but I have a related question.
I'm putting a 2" floor into the loft of my place. Most people do t&g and thats it but I'm thinking the pinned floor I saw in a timber framed house once would be easier. They also had a splined floor using 1/2 plywood splines instead of t&g.
I only have a router to do the work and the lumber will be off my mill and 2 side planed.
My other option is 2" floor with a 1" floor at right angles above. I know this would be a squeaky floor but would match the local old fashioned construction techniques.
I've been planing and T&G routing some 4/4 ambrosia maple flooring for the wine room in the house we're working on. It's not moulder quality but it works ok.
Well I finally got my T&G flooring, from the kiln, and am ready to start installing. It is 1 1/2" thick by 5 1/2" wide. The boards are going down on 2X12 floor joists on 16" centers. I have 3" galvanized rink shanks for my nail gun, and a couple of cases of PL400 adhesive, and am planning on blind nailing through the tongue.
My question is do I need to have each board break over a joist, or will the T&G support the board in the middle. It seems obvious to me that it would be sturdier to have the seam over the joist, but on a test I did, I can't get the nail gun to shoot into the end of the board over the joist without cracking, since I am so close to the end.
It is a dilema, but if the tongue and the groove fit well, and being the joists are 16" oc, if me, I'd let the end joints fall where they may. It will look more random too, rather than having joints line up across the floor and identifying the joist locations.
Some will use biscuts on the ends to prevent movement. You will still get dust sifting thru the crack, but without any underlayment you will probably have that anyway. The other method on the ends is to glue or screw a board underneath the ends.
Over time an unsupported joint will probably weaken. I would land on a joist, drill & c'sink a pilot hole then nail or screw it down. If you angle the drill bit a little you should be able to set the hole back far enough as to not split the end. Just don't over torque the screw. A little more time consuming but worth the piece of mind.
Put adhesive on the end of the boards and do a 5 or 10 degree back cut. It will give a bit more glue area and on some not so good cuts will not show up as bad. You can sand down the edges later.
Arkansawyer:
Are you saying at each butt joint to miter a 5 degree joint and glue the ends together? I could see how that would definitely give more gluing surface and better support? I currently do not own a biscuit joiner, but also see where that could be a help. I may try tomorrow using my router and a spline on the butt joint to see if that is feasible.
I went through my 2420 lineal feet of 2X6 T&G today, and chop sawed out the waste. I ended up with 975' of usable flooring. That was a bit of disappointment, as I wasn't expecting quite so much waste, but as they say " it is what it is" :-\
I will definitely be spanning joists!
Well I racked, measured, and cut my flooring. I also conducted a test of joist spanning with some scrap. The bottom line is I ended up with enough clear, that I'll be able to complete the butt joints over a joist. Here are some pics of the 1 1/2" Alaskan Hemlock T&G that is ready to be put down. It is al clear, with the exception of the worm holes in a few pieces, that my wife really likes the look of. I am working on a siding job right now, and will save this for inclement weather days. I'll get some more pics of the progress. Thanks for everyones help, and I hope this thread can help someone else as much as has helped me.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16496/IMG_2077.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16496/IMG_2076.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16496/IMG_2078.jpg)
We got to work on the floor for the last few days. Let's see what have I learned?
The 3 1/4 Ring Shanks hold better, but need to be shot at just the right angle and position or the dry hemlock has a tendency to crack. I had tried some 2 1/2 galv rings. The were easy to shoot, but didn't hold down the crooked or warped boards to my satisfaction. Here is a close up of the worm pecked boards next to the clear. I didn't know if I would like them at first, but the wife was right ( aren't they always?)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16496/small1.jpg)
I have been able to seat and straighten every board with a block and a sledge, then snug it up tight with a long handled extra large screwdriver. It is certainly a learned skill holding the screwdriver in one hand and shooting the nail gun with the other. It definitely is better with a helper.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16496/small3.jpg)
The PL400 subfloor adhesive seems to dry in 24 hours, and snugs up the boards well.
I now know, why they call it car decking... :D When you put down 1 1/2" T&G over full 2" joists on 16" centers you could drive a car anywhere in the room... ;D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16496/small2.jpg)
We are now starting to talk about finishes. Has anyone heard or used a product called Gym Seal? Everyone around here raves about it's durability.
Gym seal is what I used 40 years ago on our oak floors. Was recommended to do two coats, but I put on 3 coats. The floors still look great (my opinion, anyway) after 40 years. There are some affects of wear but mostly things like the flat iron, door stop, dropped furniture, etc. that were accidents and small gouges/dents. But the finish, even in the hallway to the bedrooms which gets ALL the traffic, are holding up well on the finish.
I think the 3rd coat is what made the real difference. Friends who did their floors about the same time, and only used 2 coats were not as lucky with the high traffic areas.
Your floor looks great.
I just wanted to follow up on this thread. The floor has been down now coming up on a year. I've had no issues so far with cupping, loose boards, or squeaks.
I hand scraped the floor using a a scrub plane. I did this at joints that were a little uneven, and to add a little character. I was a bit timid in how many marks I left. Now we wish we had done more. They ended up giving the floor in our opinion a great look.
For finishing we ended up using a product called Waterlox. I put down 3 coats, and have been impressed so far. We just sweep, vacuum, and occasional damp mop, as you would any other floor. The gaps between the boards are noticeable, as you would expect. Basically it is a rustic floor, and is just what we were looking for.
This is not a great picture of the floor, but the only one I have that shows the finish.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16496/1991/P6280226.JPG)
Again thanks for everyone's input. I plan on using this same floor in a project I am involved with currently.
A job well done! Do you know that people pay good money for a floor like that?
Sure looks good for something that started out to be a possible sub-floor. I have a hunch we are looking at the permanent floor.
In my log house I used 2X6 T&G Fir (a lot of #1) as a sub-floor for the main floor of our day-light basement home. We then poured concrete on top of it. Oh yeah, the radiant floor tubes were in the concrete in between nailers. Then I laid a random width and length Oregon White Oak floor on top.
Since this thread went to sleep in 2009, May I wake it up with a related question?
Is using a biscuit arrangement with a plate jointer a possible substitute for tongue and groove flooring, assuming the thickness of the wood was sufficient and the subfloor adequate?
Like a lot of the folks on this forum, I have timber available from my woods & a sawmill, which tends to blind me to the opportunity cost of overusing that wood in my own projects smiley_inspector smiley_swinging_board
I think biscuits would be OK for connecting the ends of boards together, but I wouldn't rely on them to replace T&G. If you don't want T&G, how about just cutting grooves in all edges and use splines instead?
Splines? Sorry for my ignorance, tell me how that relates to the flooring. BTW, we like your cat avatar.
With tongue and groove one board has a tongue and the mating board has a groove. with a spline both boards have a groove and the spline is a floating tongue the fits the groove of both boards.