The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Sawmills and Milling => Topic started by: DR_Buck on February 11, 2008, 05:57:13 PM

Title: Value of Cherry Log
Post by: DR_Buck on February 11, 2008, 05:57:13 PM
So, what's a cherry log worth these days?    I have an acquaintance that has a tree he wants to part with.  It's already down.   It came from a somewhat remote location where they are going to build a house so the possibility of metal is low.  There are three straight 8 ft sections  13-14 " diameter with very little taper.   They scale at about 55 bf each using the international scale.   

I'd like to be fair, but not overly generous  ;D with an offer.
Title: Re: Value of Cherry Log
Post by: SAW MILLER on February 11, 2008, 06:24:27 PM
I sawed a pile of logs just like you describe last spring for a logging family.They told me that they could get .80 to 1.00 for the logs at the local mill.I think a truckload would bring that but one or two logs are harder to market so I would pay no more than 75 dollars for them.
  Then as always, I would have to actually see them before deciding on a price.The little butt log itself could be worth more than that if veneer quality and you had a buyer.
Title: Re: Value of Cherry Log
Post by: SwampDonkey on February 11, 2008, 06:34:59 PM
Yeah, $0.70-$0.90/bf was what I'm thinking. Regular hard maple and yellow birch goes for $0.25-$0.50 / bf here depending on size and grade, excluding veneer.
Title: Re: Value of Cherry Log
Post by: submarinesailor on February 11, 2008, 06:58:40 PM
Dave,

Just down the road from you at the intersection of 229 and 211, South Riding.  A buddy of mine paid a $1,000 for a cherry log.  But it was a little large.  About 40 feet of it was over 40+ inches.  That was 4 years ago and we still have a price that about 8' by 36" that we haven't gotten to yet.  Good thing that cherry rots real slow.  When you come by the house from the Mid Atlantic get together, I'll show you some of the slabs he has drying.

Bruce
Title: Re: Value of Cherry Log
Post by: SwampDonkey on February 11, 2008, 07:29:36 PM
40" at 40 feet?  :P

Around 3000 feet, 6 cords? That's $0.34 a bf isn't it?

I'd like to see that log. ;D
Title: Re: Value of Cherry Log
Post by: submarinesailor on February 11, 2008, 07:41:21 PM
 I'll see if I can find some pictures - don't hold your breath.

Bruce
Title: Re: Value of Cherry Log
Post by: Ironwood on February 11, 2008, 07:49:14 PM
Yeah, I wouldn't get too crazy on it either. There are some pics in my gallery of some straight clear cherry from a job. You never know what you've got until you open them up.

I did just buy a MONSTER cherry from a sawmill for, ...........well lets just say GOOD money . It is 30"+ and 20' long, a little sweep and a long crotch at the top (these are ALL good attributes for me).

       Ironwood (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11262/OIMG_0540.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11262/OIMG_0544.jpg)
Title: Re: Value of Cherry Log
Post by: SwampDonkey on February 11, 2008, 07:50:39 PM
Sure it's not circumference chum?  ;)
Title: Re: Value of Cherry Log
Post by: J_T on February 11, 2008, 08:56:22 PM
Cherry price seams to be headed toward the bottom :'( ??? Sawlogs here is a no seller unless you want tie price ???
Title: Re: Value of Cherry Log
Post by: submarinesailor on February 12, 2008, 06:33:08 AM
I found one. 8) 8) 8)

Now you guys can call BS if you want. BUT this very bad picture is a branch from the log he purchased from the land owner.  The state was widening an intersection and the tree had to come down.  Originally the owner wanted $8,000 for it.  No one would give it to him.  So my buddy, John-(in the picture), offered him a $1,000 and he took it.  You could tell he wasn't happy as we were loading it.

Bruce

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11249/JohnsCherryLogBranch.jpg)
Title: Re: Value of Cherry Log
Post by: SwampDonkey on February 12, 2008, 09:43:53 AM
That's a good sized limb there Sub, whether is come from 40' up or 5' up, is the mystery. But, as a matter a record, the largest recorded was 90" at breast height , total height 114'. I got that from the 1980 edition of the Dendro Text. So that may have been broken since. Anyone got a taper equation to apply to that 90"? I would think at 40' up it would be down around 25", but possibly 32". Hardwood tends to taper faster than big softwood, a white pine will hold it's diameter a lot better for instance. It's a lot lighter than cherry. Gravity is  harsh thing to deal with when your huge. ;)
Title: Re: Value of Cherry Log
Post by: submarinesailor on February 12, 2008, 09:51:43 AM
SD,

Don't know how far up it was.  When we went to pick it up, it was on the ground and was very dark and raining like a big dog.

Bruce
Title: Re: Value of Cherry Log
Post by: SwampDonkey on February 12, 2008, 11:28:09 AM
 Taper Equations For Appalachian Hardwoods  (http://www.fs.fed.us/ne/newtown_square/publications/research_papers/pdfs/scanned/OCR/ne_rp490.pdf)

"Each model can be used to estimate diameter at any point on the bole, height to any preselected diameter, and cubic-foot volume between any two points on the bole."


I tried two taper equations for a 90 foot tree. With an 80" DBH cherry, it could be 40" at 40 feet.

Kozak (1969)

Dupper= (-1.8830(40 feet/90 feet -1) + 0.6637(402 feet2/902 feet2 -1))*80 inches DBH

Dupper= 41 inches



Ormerod (1973)

Dupper= ((90 feet - 40 feet)/(90 feet-4.5 feet))(2x0.6303)
Dupper= 40 inches

So you have to have a huge tree.

These equations for cherry only. The coefficients are different for each species.
Title: Re: Value of Cherry Log
Post by: Ron Wenrich on February 12, 2008, 05:54:04 PM
You might want to check to see if there is any sap streaks in the cherry.  That will detract from the value.  They'll look like black dots on the end of the log.  A lot of our local cherry has it.  I'm also assuming its black cherry and not sweet cherry.  Sweet cherry doesn't cut out very well.
Title: Re: Value of Cherry Log
Post by: SwampDonkey on February 12, 2008, 06:09:14 PM
Depends on who you buy the lumber from. I bought some imported cherry from the only outfit around here you can get it. It was full of small gum pockets and didn't affect the price. I built 2 tables with it, and I am well pleased with it. But, I know what your talking about Ron. A lot of people are looking for that perfect piece of lumber and over looking some good wood. ;D
Title: Re: Value of Cherry Log
Post by: Dave Shepard on February 12, 2008, 06:12:46 PM
My grandfather told me some stories about people bidding on cherry sales in PA that would sneak into the woods and cut down a few sample trees to see if there was a lot of gum in them. Didn't go over too well the timber owners. ;)


Dave
Title: Re: Value of Cherry Log
Post by: submarinesailor on February 12, 2008, 07:07:19 PM
Ron,

I don't know the difference between the two types.  Do both of them grow in the mountains/piedmont of Virginia?

Bruce
Title: Re: Value of Cherry Log
Post by: Ron Wenrich on February 12, 2008, 07:50:30 PM
Sweet cherry has bark that looks more like birch.  To me, the grain and the wood has more of a muddy look to it.  I think it is just some orchard cherry that has gotten into the woods.

Black cherry has the typical broken type of bark.  It prunes up quicker than the sweet cherry, so the lumber is nicer.

I know both species grow here in south central PA, so I'm betting you got it down there in Virginia.
Title: Re: Value of Cherry Log
Post by: zopi on February 12, 2008, 08:58:57 PM
As I understand it, Ron, you are correct...there is s'posed to be a mix here...but almost all of our cherry here is black cherry..got about 20 of them in the yard...but sadly, none of them are straight enough for lumber... :-\

Prolific little buggers though...
Title: Re: Value of Cherry Log
Post by: Greenskeeper on February 12, 2008, 10:53:11 PM
I just got some quotes back for #1 common cherry S2S 6-7%MC 5-7"RW$2.23MBF prices were from a mid Michigan mill.
Title: Re: Value of Cherry Log
Post by: Furby on February 12, 2008, 11:04:09 PM
Quote from: Ron Wenrich on February 12, 2008, 05:54:04 PM
You might want to check to see if there is any sap streaks in the cherry.  That will detract from the value.  They'll look like black dots on the end of the log.  A lot of our local cherry has it. 

Is this what you call sap streaks Ron?

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10577/Cherry_scrap.jpg)
Title: Re: Value of Cherry Log
Post by: Ron Wenrich on February 13, 2008, 05:45:55 AM
It sure looks like it. Its caused by the pear borer, I think.  They are attracted by slash that's left during harvesting in early summer.  They lay their eggs, then the next brood attacks the cherry.  I had one veneer buyer tell me he could tell when a stand was harvested by where the gum streak occurred.

Sometimes when you plane through one of those streaks, it turns out to be dried sap with the wood missing. 
Title: Re: Value of Cherry Log
Post by: SwampDonkey on February 13, 2008, 06:48:22 AM
The ones I see in mine are like inclusions and no sign of galleries, but that isn't a proper diagnoses. When you have sawn lumber, galleries go for a ways then disappear because your slicing off wood, just the nature of it.  I rarely have seen it in our cherry up here and I believe by the size of the pockets here they were black knot infections healed over. The wood I used this winter in my tables came from Pennsylvania. Now if the worm just hit around the cambium, maybe they sealed up, but it would have to be multiple attacks for years because it goes all through the wood. There are 'lysigenous gum canals' in black cherry and I think what that means is it forms as a result of some trauma to the tree. It's my understanding this gum moves along the rays, since that is how live cells are fed. Where the ray intercepts the offending intruder the gum gets deposited. Kinda works like an antibody I suppose.
Title: Re: Value of Cherry Log
Post by: SwampDonkey on February 13, 2008, 11:44:02 AM
Quote from: Furby on February 12, 2008, 11:04:09 PM

Is this what you call sap streaks Ron?

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10577/Cherry_scrap.jpg)

Furby, that looks to me like what I have and could be a bug involved. I looked at mine a bit closer today and the gum is actually oozing from the early wood pores and follows along the transition into late wood. I'll see a spot that looks like a round hole filled with gum once in awhile and the streak travels along the early wood in both directions. Early wood pores are larger than late wood pores, but you can't see them with the naked eye. You know it's in the early wood because it's a darker thin band.
Title: Re: Value of Cherry Log
Post by: SAW MILLER on February 13, 2008, 04:02:08 PM
Greenskeeper,
  I'll by all I can get for 2.23 per mbf.....You meen 2.23 per bd/ft..?
Title: Re: Value of Cherry Log
Post by: SwampDonkey on February 13, 2008, 04:30:19 PM
Here it's $6/bf for 4/4 and $7/bf for 8/4 stock, select and better, random width, kilned 12 % MC. But that is trucked in a long ways. Used to be able to get cherry logs at the veneer plant for $0.90/bf. That's what I was told, but I think the guy forgot to factor in the trucking. Sometimes it was mixed in the oak they were buying. Odd that someone wouldn't know a cherry from an oak. ::)
Title: Re: Value of Cherry Log
Post by: Dave Shepard on February 13, 2008, 06:21:09 PM
Quote from: SwampDonkey on February 13, 2008, 04:30:19 PM
Odd that someone wouldn't know a cherry from an oak. ::)

A friend of mine works for a tree service. He said he pick out any tree, there's your evergreens, and then there is your deesidjewous trees. ::) :D


Dave