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General Forestry => Sawmills and Milling => Topic started by: spencerhenry on December 03, 2007, 06:57:21 PM

Title: machine to hog out beams
Post by: spencerhenry on December 03, 2007, 06:57:21 PM
has anyone ever made a tool to make a beam into a 'U' shape. pretty often i have people request that i make a 8 or 10" deep 6" wide notch in a beam. it is so that the beam can then be put in place covering a stuctural piece of steel, or glue lam etc... right now i just use a chainsaw by hand, which is slow and not that precise.
Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: Dave Shepard on December 03, 2007, 08:04:33 PM
The solution that I usually see to that problem is to take three boards and 45° the edges so they can be nailed together into a beam shape. If done accurately, it comes out fairly nice. I would think to hollow out a beam into a U shape would take one heck of a tool to do it in one pass. Perhaps you could use a large circular saw and make a bunch of passes, and then knock out whats left with a mallet and smooth  the bottom with an adze?


Dave
Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: Left Coast Chris on December 03, 2007, 08:18:53 PM
This last summer we visited the Blue Ox mill in Eureka, Ca. 

They made redwood gutter out of solid redwood using a very large molding machine. 

Here is the address:   www.blueoxmill.com
Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: Dave Shepard on December 03, 2007, 08:22:37 PM
That's cool! I betcha that moulder takes some horsepower to run.


Dave
Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: metalspinner on December 03, 2007, 08:56:39 PM
A swing mill can handle that task just fine.  A built up beam as mentioned is certainly more practicle.
Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: Don_Papenburg on December 03, 2007, 09:01:58 PM
Practical yes, but if the client is picky and has money dripping out of his pockets we will do the impractical.
Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: spencerhenry on December 03, 2007, 09:11:34 PM
i slab plenty of beams to make "beam wraps". but that is not the question here. a swing mill can handle that easily, ... exactly how is it easy. i have never used a swing mill, but my guess is you are talking about many many passes which would take lots of time. also how deep can the cuts be? the spec on the beams today was a 9" deep trough.
Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: Brad_S. on December 03, 2007, 09:19:36 PM
I've hollowed out several logs to wrap around structural members in "rustic" decors. I always did it with a chainsaw as well and I too figure there must be a better way. I've wondered whether a log wizard would work. I had one once for stripping bark and thought it was worthless so I got rid of it. Sure would like it back to try hollowing with though.
Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: Dale Hatfield on December 03, 2007, 09:35:04 PM
the log wizzard people make just the thing . I have never used it.
http://www.logwizard.com/logmaster.php3
Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: Dave Shepard on December 03, 2007, 10:02:55 PM
That is interesting Dale. I was sitting here trying to think how a Log Wizard could be used to do that, but they were one step ahead. :D I betcha there is still a lot of time involved to use that, there is a lot of material to be removed in lots of thin shavings.


Dave
Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: Dan_Shade on December 03, 2007, 10:11:14 PM
what about a hand held planer?  those things can hog wood pretty quickly.  put up a fence and have at it, or a chalk line or something....  easier than one on a chainsaw...
Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: StorminN on December 03, 2007, 10:29:07 PM
You just need a 6" wide dato for a swingmill!  :o :D

Seriously, though... you could do it with an 8" or 10" swingmill, depends on how deep it needs to be... make a bunch of verticle cuts and then hog it out with an adze... for that matter, you could rent one of those Makita beam circular saws, use a fence, and do the same sort of thing, albeit slower...

-Norm.
Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: Firebass on December 03, 2007, 11:09:35 PM
Quote from: StorminN on December 03, 2007, 10:29:07 PM
You just need a 6" wide dato for a swingmill!  :o :D

-Norm.

Yea then mount it on the axle of your Dodge Cummings Diesel Truck and do a Burn out down the log.  It'd be a great event at the county fair.  :)

Firebass

Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: solodan on December 03, 2007, 11:13:23 PM
I do these alot on my Lucas. 8 1/2" is the max depth, but it is fairly easy to hog out more with a chainsaw, especially after you already have a straight edge to follow.  I have also hogged out the back of a full log to wrap over an existing beam or door ways.   8)
Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: karl on December 04, 2007, 04:55:02 PM
I've taken the main saw off of my MD and plowed channels with the edgers.....
Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: Ironwood on December 04, 2007, 08:57:13 PM
I contemplated patenting a process like this but it wasn't worth the investment given the market (demand). I invested many thousands and have a workable prototype and will have it online for use in a few years (not the priority it once was). Slab and miter, much easier!!

                        Ironwood
Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: getoverit on December 04, 2007, 10:58:46 PM
There was a thread on here a couple of years ago about a log lathe.  HERE  (http://www.jober.qc.ca/accueil_frame_en.htm) is a link to something similar.
(click on the log beaver if the link doesnt open to the right frame)

I dont see why you couldnt mount a router bit or some sort of milling head onto the engine shaft and achieve what you are trying to do using something similar to this. Just set the height and push away!
Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: ljmathias on December 05, 2007, 07:40:41 PM
Checked on that "Log Beaver" mentioned above and found this: "Jober Blc is proud to show you his new product : the Beaver. This de-barker can turn logs down to any desired diameter. It can handle a log of up to 14 feet in diameter and 13 feet long."  WOW!  14' in diameter!  I'd love to see that hummer in operation- that's a log wider than it is long but can you imagine the bowls you could turn?  Actually, they'd be bathtubs!

Lj
Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: Brad_S. on December 05, 2007, 08:21:18 PM
That's a typo, it should read 14 INCHES in diameter. I feel pretty confident that the carraige of that machine wouldn't hold a 14 foot diameter log! :D
Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: ljmathias on December 05, 2007, 08:29:51 PM
Yeah, you're probably right but it sure fires up the imagination- only think is, finding 14' diameter logs here in the deep South ain't happening in this day and age, so it's a pretty useless fire and all...

Lj
Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: eamassey on December 05, 2007, 10:14:44 PM
If there is any serious demand for a "beam hog out" machine, I will build one and guarantee it to work.  Give me some specifications: Max and Min beam size, max length beam, max depth of groove, max width of groove, required production rate.  Obviously, if you want a machine that can do everything -in this area- imaginable, and at very quick times, it would require a large and expensive machine.  A relatively slow machine capable of doing a quality cut- might be affordable to somebody out there.

Alternately, I would build a machine to do this function and do it myself---IF, there was the combination of volume and profitability.  (I doubt that the demand volume is adequate.)

I think I would go for clamped log/ moving powerhead- using an end mill type cutter rather than a saw or dado type cutter.  Or, one could build a very unusual cutter head using carbide inserts to cut a one inch kerf- then multi-pass to get any width cut- bigger than the single pass kerf. 
Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: solodan on December 05, 2007, 11:26:03 PM
I have been asked to do this several times, and like I said before I do it on a swinger. :) If I need it to be super clean, than I just take a kerfs width each pass. Sure, I may need to take 24 passes to get a 6 " wide cut, but so what, the customer has just paid me the equivalent of 2 extra hours for something that takes me an extra 15 minutes. :)
Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: getoverit on December 06, 2007, 11:12:38 AM
The idea of the log beaver wasnt to turn a log, but rather the engine moving along a rail with a router bit attached to it. The log would remain stationary and the engine/router bit/ shaper head would run up and down the log taking out a channel. This should be something fairly easy to build.

There was another similar machine to this one that was set up to cut out tongue and groove joints on logs for use in log cabins. Same approach, but when the outside of the log was turned true and round, then the log stopped moving and the channels or tongues were cut using the same bit.

I dont see why this wouldnt work for what you are wanting to do. By the way, they just built a new sporting goods store here in jax called "Gander Mountain". In the store, all of the steel support beams have been covered over with hollowed out logs that were sawn in half length wise, then a channel routed out, then wrapped around the steel post and screwed back together. Makes a pretty nice looking decoration and makes you feel like you are in a massive log cabin.
Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: Dale Hatfield on December 07, 2007, 07:17:30 AM
It seams to me that on the swing mills. That you could make angled cuts to remove larger  chunks of wood .The 2 cuts would work you down to the shell faster than many vertical cuts to be knocked out . Start in the center wit a vertical cut the go to the outside with angled cut to remove a section. Just stay inside of the shell section with the angled cuts.
I have been pondering this same thing. but to make outside/inside corners for cabins. But as the log dried the angle may change which wouldnt make for a tight corner. I guess air/kiln dried logs would make the diff.
Has anyone seen what happens with the shell  log cover after it has dried?
Dale
Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: Don_Papenburg on December 07, 2007, 09:00:44 PM
A shell log should be fine as the crack inducing center has been removed If it is installed so it can move with the humidity changes.   It would be sort of like when you drill out the center of a pillar  it lets the outer wood move. Without the wood in the center the pillar can shrink and swell with out cracking .
Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: doublecut on December 09, 2007, 12:20:31 PM
We have a attachement that work with any swing mill that will take lumber out of the notch instead of hogging it into sawdust.
I have pics but my limited  computer skills may hamper getting  them up on the forum. BUt i will try.
doublecut
Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: Don P on December 09, 2007, 12:54:55 PM
When you cut a log in half and then dry it, the same shrinkage forces are at work that would have caused it to check. The flat faces of two flat slabs tend to become convex. Notched vertical log corners tend to become obtuse as they dry.

An end mill type of cutter would be a pretty neat machine, it would need to be a pretty healthy diameter to hold up at much depth.

I've wondered about something similar. If a stylus was following one log''s natural contours and the end mill directly above it was removing the corresponding wood from another log, you'd have a perfect scribe.
Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: LOGDOG on December 09, 2007, 02:13:52 PM
How about this? Photos courtesy of DOUBLECUT.  :) (Hope this works- been a while since I posted photos.) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13926/1.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13926/2.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13926/3.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13926/4.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13926/6.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13926/5.jpg)

I think that may have actually worked.  :)

LOGDOG
Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: Mr Mom on December 09, 2007, 03:25:40 PM
What about the logosol planer/molder that you can use on there mill??
Could you have them make a knife that would do that??
Thanks Alot Mr Mom
Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: Dangerous_Dan on December 09, 2007, 04:45:56 PM
How about mounting a router, saw or cutter head to this contraption.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12002/StainlessJunk03.jpg)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12002/StainlessJunk02.jpg)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12002/StainlessJunk01.jpg)
It's got 2 heavy duty tubes with tight fitting linear bearings and a ball screw to move it back and forth. From what I have been told it is some kind of lift for use in a pharmaceutical  co lifting material into a reactor.
The frame is made of stainless and my buddie was going to scrap it.
Title: Re: machine to hog out beams
Post by: spencerhenry on December 11, 2007, 12:20:27 AM
that looks like what i need to do. how deep can you go with that?
great pictures