The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Alternative methods and solutions => Topic started by: ellmoe on April 28, 2005, 08:18:40 pm

Title: Wood burning truck!
Post by: ellmoe on April 28, 2005, 08:18:40 pm
    During the day I listen to talk radio. My ear protectors have an AM/FM radio and listening helps keep my mine occupied! This afternoon the local station (Orlando) was discussing gas prices and they  had a gentleman from Ala. on. He was talking about his truck that he had modified to run on wood. Turns out that he has a home made sawmill and he burns his scrap wood in a burner that is in his truck bed. He said that the oven heats to about 2000 degrees and the smoke is consumed/ converted in the process so that no smoke is exhausted. When the show host asked him if anyone could do this the fella said, "Nope!". He elaberated that you have to "be the kind of person that never goes to an auto mechanic, has experience with wood stoves,..., and it helps if you know something about making corn whiskey! ";D I wish that I could remember his name, he'd be a natural for the forum. How 'bout you Bama boys, anyone know him?
 
   By the way, he says he can run 80 miles an hour and gets 3,000miles/cord! :)

Mark
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on April 28, 2005, 08:40:19 pm

  That technology has been around for decades.  ;D :D :D :D :D

  I have a brother that doesn't talk to me, that was playing with wood-gassification. Too much work.  Hydrogen is mucho mucho easier.  ;) :) :)

  I heard some over educated guy 2 days ago, say that Hydrogen fuel for vehicles, is years away. 

  Funny, it's been used in the UK for years. Hitler nearly won the war with Hydrogen.

  I got a magazine from the 80's that tells of an old farmer in Iowa that was gettin 50 miles to a gallon of water. He was trying for 100 MPG.  ;) ;)  Very simple process. That was my goal in life, then gas prices went down.  ::) ::)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Dan_Shade on April 28, 2005, 09:23:12 pm
they're back up now!

i take all of that info with a grain of salt....  sorta like Tesla's car that ran on a box with two posts out of it.  Legend has it he made a box that got its energy from natural electric fields.  The press said he made a pact with the devil to get the car to run, so he got mad, boxed up his invention and died with the secret.  I think it's all a bunch of bunk (though legand also holds that the US Gov't confiscated 43 trunks of his study documents and classified them after he died).... good for the conspiricy thinkers.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Buzz-sawyer on April 28, 2005, 09:29:52 pm
Conspirary or not I am not the first guy to use wood to run internal combustion engines........during WW2 thats all that power common european cars...many Aussies run em down under.............whats so hard to believe ???
(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10677/old%20woodgas.jpg)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Dan_Shade on April 28, 2005, 09:37:22 pm
how fast would they go?  were they steam powered, or those externally fueled engines (sterling, I think???)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Jason_WI on April 28, 2005, 09:45:17 pm
Most people think it is Edison that brought electricity to the masses. If that were true then we would have DC powered appliences and a DC generator plant every 10 or so square miles. Tesla worked for Edison for a while until Edison bunked on his promises to Tesla and on his ideas about AC power. Good thing Wenstinghouse believed in Tesla and AC power and provided him with a lab to crank out his inventions.

Jason
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Don P on April 28, 2005, 10:24:37 pm
Have you ever read any of Tesla's writings? Now there was a man that was mighty impressed with himself  :D
The wood gassification is just capturing the byproducts of heating wood in an enclosed container and running those gasses thru a filter to a carb, mostly you're burning carbon monoxide, along with some stuff that isn't too good for the engine. If I remember right some of the gassifiers got hot enough that water injected into the unit was broken down into hydrogen and oxygen and was burned. Another way to bust a molecule. Mother Earth News built a Chevy 1/2 ton version and also ran a generator on wood gas in the '70's

If you pass that cellulose through a ruminant and then ferment it in an enclosed container you get another gas that will run engines, methane...natural gas. While some folks in WWII were making wood gas others were strapping huge bladders full of methane to the roof and going to town.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on April 28, 2005, 11:53:19 pm

  Nothing against Dan_Shade. Ya just gotta change yer brand of reading books.  ;) ;D ;D ;D

  Ford has been marketing Hydrogen powered cars in the UK for over 25 years.

  Most of this kind of information is de-bunked by the govt. and big business.

  I had some neighbors in Arkansas, that were retired oil field workers. They told me many times of the amounts of Natural Gas and Crude that was down the capped wells that they had drilled. 

  There is NO shortage of Crude OR natural Gas. Just a shortage of folks with common sense.

  I don`t HAVE to make believers out of anyone. I know how to do this stuff.  Me and ole Buzz got it covered.  ;) ;) ;D ;D 8) 8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Rockn H on April 29, 2005, 12:43:01 am
Hydrogen, now that's easy.  Just run a current through dirty water ie. not distilled.  It needs something to conduct the current.  The minerals in tap water will do.  Drop a positive and a negative electode in a tank of water and you get hydrogen gas and oxygen.
Tesla had some good experiments he was working on for distributing electricity without the wires, something like an electric ray.  It was really interesting.
I got a kick a while back when I heard on the radio that Gov. Arnold (I'm not looking up how to spell last name) was sending his Hummer back to GM to have them convert it over to their experimental hydrogen engine.  It would make it more PC.
You used to be able to find hydrogen fuel cells or generators on the net for powering propane gensets. 
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: GF on April 29, 2005, 08:58:21 am
Here were some links I found that were interesting.

http://www.gengas.nu/byggbes/contents.shtml
http://jlnlabs.imars.com/bingofuel/html/bfr10.htm
http://jlnlabs.imars.com/bingofuel/html/bfr5hpgen.htm

The technology has been there for awhile, there are patents for carburators that got 200MPG back in the early 1900's.  My opinion is this, car manufacturers support the oil companies, you can pretty much tell which ones do this by looking at how many MPG they get on a gallon of fuel.  The more fuel we burn the more we have to purchase, in turn means for tax revenue for the US (what a concept) ::).  Imagine all of sudden do to better fuel milage the US now only cosumes half of it current daily amount, what would this do to the economy, and the taxes the fed and states are collecting.

There definitly is other better and more cost effective alternatives, problem is they have not figured how to tax it yet, one option being discussed is to tax you by your milage.  My guess is that once they start taxing us this way all kinds of new alternative will be hitting the market.  It all comes down to the tax dollar.  Just my opinion.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: slowzuki on April 29, 2005, 09:20:28 am
There may be patents for 200 mpg carbs but your idea doesn't have to work to get a patent.  Some of the inventions break thermodynamic laws in making claims.  I don't know of anyone yet who can actually break the laws of physics.


If I recall right gas engines are about 15% efficient at converting fuel to motion.  So the most possible would be roughly a 6.66 times increase in fuel mileage.  But that is impossible at this time as we have no invention to turn chemical energy directly to motion without friction.

Fuel cells are about the best chance we have of that, they operate while wasting only the minimal amount of heat to generate electricity which can spin a relatively efficient electric motor.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Dan_Shade on April 29, 2005, 10:07:26 am
are you guys talking fuel cell stuff with hydrogen, or internal combustion.

I quit reading those books a long time ago, Fla._Deadheader :)

I'm just sorta skeptical about magical devices to get such huge increases in fuel economy and such.  I certainly don't trust the gov't and such,  :D, but i don't buy into the mass conspiracies to make us use more oil.  Especially since a president that doubled or trippled fuel ecomony would be a really popular guy.

what are the byproducts of burning the wood gases, a lot of the nasties from IC are NOX emissions and such.

I think a lot of the most feasable "renewable" fuel sources are alcohols.

the problem with hydrogen stuff is it takes a lot of energy to get the hydrogen, either by electricity through the water (where does the electricity come from), or by dumping acids on metals to release the hydrogen. 

cool stuff to talk and think about none the less. 
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on April 29, 2005, 10:29:27 am

  Buzz and I have exchanged info several times. He fully understands where the electricity comes from. Simple source.  ;D ;D   I am still wanting to develop the idea, maybe in Costa Rica.

  The Ticos are very enterprising people.  ;) ;)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: OneWithWood on April 29, 2005, 10:34:24 am
So what is the scoop with bio-diesel?  Do we get a net energy gain?  It sounds like an alternative that would help the economy and preserve the gov's tax base.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on April 29, 2005, 02:16:42 pm

  OWW, I believe Buzz makes Bio-Diesel fuel. Not big technology, just use renewable resources. There are those that collect the cooking oil from fast food chains and burn it in their vehicles. Smells like Chicken and fries.  ::) :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Doc on April 29, 2005, 02:57:44 pm

  OWW, I believe Buzz makes Bio-Diesel fuel. Not big technology, just use renewable resources. There are those that collect the cooking oil from fast food chains and burn it in their vehicles. Smells like Chicken and fries.  ::) :D

I have used waste oil to fire my foundry furnace, adn it works really well if you filter out all the crumbs first so they don't clog the line. I understand in some places waste oil is being used for a heat source for commercial businesses the same way (furnace burner). I don't see why a car could not be designed to use it. You are simply atomizing a flammable fuel source that will make the BTUs that gasoline will (or very close).

Bio deisel is a very viable fuel, and is being used by many already.

I had considered using slabs (in the future) to run a generator to power my homestead the same way that truck is running. The fumes off the cooking wood are mostly alchohol, and tar with some other chemicals I know not the name of mixed in, but rather toxic. I understand they don't make it out hte tail pipe for the most part.

Doc
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron Wenrich on April 29, 2005, 05:35:08 pm
Here's the Mother Earth News article from 1981: 

MEN Link (http://www.motherearthnews.com/library/1981_March_April/Homemade_Motor_Fuel___From_Firewood)

I remember my dad telling me about the Germans using wood to run trucks during WWII.  Pendu was working on a wood cooker back in the 80s.  The company fell on hard times and was sold and no further methane development came from the new owners.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: sawdust on April 29, 2005, 06:18:14 pm



The Biomass Energy Foundation Press is a not for profit group that is keeping books aobut Biomass and Gassification in print.

1810 Smith Rd Golden Colorado 80401

They have excellent books about converting internal combustion engines to burn wood gas.
www.woodgas.com

sawdust
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Buzz-sawyer on April 29, 2005, 06:54:23 pm
it is not even necissary to refine used vegitable oil to the point it becomes bio diesel.......it is very easy to filter down to 2 microns and use the oil directly in diesel engines of certain types .after all that is what Rudolph Diesel designed his engines to run on ;)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: wiam on April 29, 2005, 07:05:47 pm
These guys sell kits to run on veg oil.  I keep thinking about it on a tractor.

http://www.greasel.com/index.html 


Will
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Buzz-sawyer on April 29, 2005, 07:21:43 pm
Wiam
you can get into some problems using svo (straight vegitable oil) with certain engines that cause premature failure..........some of the kit sellers dont pass on this info ;)
Also the kits can be easily constructed out of common household and off the shelf parts for 1/4 the cost.

The problems encountered with the DI type engine using SVO/WVO are that polimerisation of lubricating oil and unburned fuel. This is caused mainly because the fuel is thicker, leading to poorer atomisation especially when cold, and so there is a greater chance of unburned SVO accumulating in the piston bowl, (combustion chamber), and contaminating the ring-land area of the piston where it may harden and cause the ring to siese in its groove with a loss of compression. Also, affected would be the valves, etc.
Indirect injection engines such as mercedes older style excel with svo ;) :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: wiam on April 29, 2005, 08:30:19 pm
Buzz  I guess that will not work on my new tractor, it is direct injection.  Thanks for the info.  Could you explain a little more on difference between direct/indirect injection.  I had figured cheaper ways than kit. ;)

Will
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Buzz-sawyer on April 29, 2005, 08:47:35 pm
Well with DI it is critical to heat fuel to 175 f. Some manufacturers are better than others at tolerating SVO.
What can I tell more specifically ??? :)


Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Gary_C on April 30, 2005, 02:34:42 am
I remember hearing about these super carb patents back in the 50's. Back then I actually believed the stories were true, but now I know better. One of the problems with patents is they are a public disclosure of your invention, so anybody can read about your idea and even make one to use, but not to sell.  There are certainly some patents that have been granted with some extraordinary claims, but they cannot be duplicated. Back then gas sold for twenty some cents per gallon and most cars got less than 10 mpg. You could even buy stock cars with two fours or even six two barrel carbs.  Some people say the miracle carbs that were kept under wraps were actually fuel injection systems that are now reality.

Hydrogen has long been promoted as the fuel of the future and maybe some day that will be true, but it still does not seem to be making much progress. The first problem with hydrogen is that currently it takes too much energy to produce. The second problem is a huge one of logistics. If I remember the number right, Exxon has ten per cent of the gasoline market in the US today and they sell one BILLION gallons every three days. I can't imagine what it would take to produce, transport, and sell hydrogen that has to be contained under high pressures and replace even ten percent of the energy consumption in this country.

Bio Diesel can be burned in any newer diesel engines that has the viton seals in the injection pumps or fuel lines.  The only problem is that it cannot be used in the colder temperatures unless you preheat the fuel in the tank.  There are people running straight soy diesel in the summer, but they have problems even with blends when the temperature gets down close to freezing. The story I saw with the guy that burns french fry oil has a heat coil from the cooling system in his fuel tank and actually has a separate tank of diesel fuel for starting and warm up .

Indirect injection was the system in the older engines (7.3 Ford before powerstroke) where the fuel nozzle and glow plug were in a separate "prechamber" connected to the cylinder. In this systen the fuel could be injected under lower pressures and the injection pumps cost less.  With the development of the new high pressure pumps, the engine makers can now direct inject into the cylinder. Direct injection results in a 15 % increase in efficiency and lower emissions.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron Wenrich on April 30, 2005, 06:24:20 am
I remember when gas was 25 cents a gallon.  Of course, $2/hr was a really good job.  Everything is relative. 

As for the hydrogen, I saw a program on PBS about the new types of cars.  They showed hydrogen technology in the US and in Europe. 

In the US, they were talking about problems of transportation and storage.  The arguements you just made.  They sounded like we were pretty far from the technology.

In Iceland, they had stand alone hydrogen plants.  The geothermals in Iceland make it possible.  But, you could just pull up to the station and fill up like a traditional car.  It made it look like we are pretty far behind in technology. 

Some of the largest investors in hydrogen production are the oil companies.  BP Shell and Exxon-Mobil are the biggest.  I wonder if they know something we don't.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: OneWithWood on May 02, 2005, 11:04:08 am
Like maybe we are burning through the known reserves of oil at an alarming rate?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Rockn H on September 03, 2005, 12:25:27 am
I've been looking around the net and have found alot of plans and I think enough information to get a wood gassifier going.  My question is, does any one have any practical experience to know ,since the size of the gassifier is built to the hp rating of the engine, how long on a 5 hp engine could you get one to burn between refueling as it seems to smolder.  Lets say I was burning hard wood.   


  Buzz and I have exchanged info several times. He fully understands where the electricity comes from. Simple source.  ;D ;D   I am still wanting to develop the idea, maybe in Costa Rica.

  The Ticos are very enterprising people.  ;) ;)
I think I know what y'all are using but I can't find any reference on the web.  How about a hint. ;D  I'm in need of educat'n
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Egon on September 03, 2005, 06:59:00 am
Iceland has a Hydrogen gas filling station. It's made possible as they use natural thermal energy to produce electricity to produce hydrogen.

Egon
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on September 03, 2005, 07:29:17 am

 The easiest engine to experiment with, is an old "one lunger", like Jeff B and Harold are collecting. They can be used straight out of the field.

  I once had an old "Edison" Genset and the original Nickel-Iron Batteries. I played around with it, whenever I was charging the batteries, to use for lighting in our house. I took a 100# Propane tank, with regulator, and ran a plastic line directly into the opening of the carb.

  I had a petcock in the line, so I could adjust the flow. Too much would slow the engine and produce a little black smoke. Too little would bog the engine.

  Today, everyone wants a "right off the shelf" get the best mileage possible, RIGHT NOW.  What ever happened to EXPERIMENTING, people ??????

  I have the info for producing Hydrogen, but, I am not sharing at this time.

  If some enterprising engineering type would like to offer a LITTLE time, to help me develop the key part, I would be more open with the info.  ;D :)

  Today, I will start my first batch of Bio-Diesel. Even though I have to move, and have NO spare time, I WILL do this. Can't just sit around and complain.  :) :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on September 03, 2005, 03:07:26 pm

 UPdate  ;D ;D  Got 3 test batches of Biodiesel sittin on the kitchen counter.  8) 8)

 

  Where da heck is Buzz ????   I  got some note comparin to do  ??? ??? ???

  Right now, using excessive amounts for titration, I can see $1.40/ gallon. SHOULD be able to ½ that, at least  8) 8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: floyd on September 03, 2005, 04:40:40 pm
If 1 uses svo some modifications should be done to the powerplant. fuel does better if heated. powerplant lasts longer if started on dead dinosauers then allowed to burn off all svo by introducing dino back inso it will start on dino next time around

Also overlooked is the distillation process leaves some BAD by products. AKA hazardous waste.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on September 03, 2005, 04:50:00 pm

 Using WVO, Floyd.  ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on January 22, 2007, 07:08:10 pm
I bought the plans for a woodgas generator from the Mother Earth News article RonW mentioned.I have been slowly gathering parts such as old hotwater tanks as well as researching all the information I can on the subject.Right now I'm having a difficult time finding the wider diameter bare tanks at 22".The most common tanks used around here seem to be 18" dia.
There has been a few updates on the plans from the original article on the gas cooler/cleaner and the nozzles(tuyeres) The plans include 3, 24"x34"diagrams with decent photos,measurements,charts and graphs to help choose the proper sized generator and nozzles as well as a complete materials list.

I plan on building the generator as a hobby much like I did when I built a Model A a few years back.
It was enjoyable to me and I learned a lot and met some interesting people along the way.

Here are a few more links to Woodgas

Pics,old and new (http://www.gengas.nu/bilder/index.shtml)

Great technical link from FOA (http://www.fao.org/docrep/t0512e/t0512e00.htm)

Fires that fit (http://journeytoforever.org/at_woodfire.html)

For some really great pictures of cars,trucks,buses and even motorcycles powered by woodgas, run a google image search on either holzgas which is German ,or gengas which is Swedish.



(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/holzgas-dia.jpg)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: farmerdoug on January 25, 2007, 11:31:30 am
Paul,  To bad we are so far away from each other.  I have a couple of those tanks laying around.  I have always been interested in this also so keep us updated on your project.  I think it would be a great fit for a saw mill.  Heat and electricity that would be great.

I am collecting the makings of a biodiesel project myself.  I will have to talk to Buzz and OWW on that soon also.

Farmerdoug
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on January 25, 2007, 04:56:36 pm
Farmerdoug,

I've been gathering up more materials and have decided to start on the 18" feed tank and the cast iron hearth while waiting to hear word on the 22"tanks.I have the local plumbers and the recycle centers(garbage collectors) keeping an eye out for the larger tanks.I've put up a $20 finders fee too. ::)

The past few days I've poured over the plans and have some measurements recorded in my binder to make things a little easier.The hearth is two cast iron frying pans welded back to back with a hole about 3" cut out.One pan is 8' and the smaller is 6" and I'll keep it warm on the old BBQ while I tack it.
We still have to figure what vehicle we'll power with this but I'm thinking either a late 70's GM PU or a Ford ranger sized truck.Have to decide before I cut out the hearth.

How far along are you on collecting the fixings for a Biodiesel plant? There is a guy just down the road from me that has most of the major items but hasn't kicked himself in the butt yet.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on January 25, 2007, 06:40:21 pm

 Paul, is it possible that you only need 55 gallon drums. ??? They measure 22" across
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on January 25, 2007, 06:56:52 pm
Harold,
I was hoping to use a HW tank because I like the looks of the domed top for shedding water and also the lid design that comes with the plan but I'll have a good look at the 55 gal drums too,thanks.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: farmerdoug on January 25, 2007, 07:04:07 pm
Paul, I have about half of the items on my list.  The project is in the garage which has no heat and an air door so it is on hold at the moment.

  Check with the well guys too.  I think a water tank would work great.

FD,  I would not use a drum as the thin metal will burn out quickly.  The metal of a water tank is much heavier and will last alot longer.

Farmerdoug
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on January 25, 2007, 07:31:06 pm

 I've seen Barrel stoves last for several years. Just use hi-temp paint ???

  Might be that cold water tanks are a different size ??? They have domed tops  ???
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on January 25, 2007, 08:14:03 pm
 Let's make Hydrogen with soda cans  (http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2004/01/19/hydrogen040119.html) ;D :D

I know the guy in the article, right up your alley Fla_Deadheader. ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: farmerdoug on January 25, 2007, 08:30:56 pm
Interesting idea but it looks like it did not take off.  One problem I have with it is that it talks like aluminum is hard to recycle.  It is one of the easiest to recycle and conserves the most energy doing it too.

Farmerdoug
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on January 25, 2007, 08:44:10 pm
Yeah, it's the original process of separation from the boxite that ain't so efficient. Call me Mr Magnate. ;D I've been in the Alcan Smelter in Kitimat and the pens and paper clips gravitate to the ceiling.  :D

I don't know that it mentioned it being difficult to recycle. I think maybe they are looking at alternative methods.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on January 25, 2007, 08:49:32 pm

 Sounds good to me  8) 8)

  What if ya don't drink Sody Pop ???
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: farmerdoug on January 25, 2007, 09:05:27 pm
Buy pies. :D :D :D :D :D :D

Farmerdoug
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on January 25, 2007, 09:15:24 pm
 :D :D Oh boy, another 'barrel of monkeys' ;D :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Polly on January 25, 2007, 09:45:16 pm
 8) 8)  griffin industries  northern ky picks up used grease and such from restuarnts  sells it to lykens oil northern ky where it is refined and then used in diesel oil i think i heard about five pc i found out a while back when my fuel filters started stopping up on my trucks :o :o
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on January 25, 2007, 10:19:26 pm
In our town there is a garbage transfer station where metals,cardboard,plastic etc is separated when people bring stuff into the yard.There is a guy that works there and I spoke to him several months ago about setting aside some tanks and I would pay a finders fee of $20 cash for each tank and also pay the dumping fee when I brought the metal skin and insulation back after stripping the tank.He wrote it down in his book with my name and phone number and the dia tanks needed.
I've gone back a few times and he draws a blank and then after I reintroduce myself,he takes down my name and phone number and dia of tanks needed.
Yesterday I went by and told him what I was looking for and he told me there was a tank in "just the other day" that fit that discription.He told me he was starting to keep a book for these types of things,so he took my name and phone number as well as the tank dia needed.See the pattern here? Ever see Bill Murray in Groundhog Day?This guy is my age for Petes sake. smiley_dizzy

He checks each load brought in anyway,all he has to do to make an extra $20 is to lay a tape measure across the top of the HW tank.If it is to specs,flop it on the ground and pick up the phone and I would be by with cash in hand and the tank would be out of his way.

Must be patient,must be patient. smiley_fused_bomb
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on January 26, 2007, 07:25:43 am
Know any Plumbers, Paul. That's the direct hotline to tank failures.  ;) :) :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on January 26, 2007, 10:36:00 am
I had one plumber keeping an eye out the past few months but this past week I've contacted a few more.What they are telling me is that the newer tanks are a standard diameter so the larger capacity tanks are taller instead of wider.They tell me the 22" tanks are still out there,just not as many.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on January 26, 2007, 11:53:43 am
 Guess I just gotta know, WHY does it HAVE to be 22" ???  Won't the wood smoke in a slimmer tank ???  ::) ::) ::)

  If the plans call for that, remember, those plans are 20 years old or more  ??? ::) ::)

  On another note, a 60 gallon tank will only hold around 48 gallons ???  Sounds like the same Engineers that designed the 2 X 4 ???   They ain't 2 X 4 either ???
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on January 26, 2007, 12:38:09 pm
There is supposed to be around a 2" gap between the inside and outside tank so the overall difference needs to be 4" in dia.I have lots of 100lbs, 16" propane tanks at my disposal but there doesn't seem to be any 20-22" tanks handy. 16" inside 18" would be a tight squeeze.

Besides all that,I'm really stubborn. ;)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on January 26, 2007, 01:46:40 pm
 ::) ::) :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on January 26, 2007, 03:04:49 pm
Not only that, he's probably not suffering yet for wheels either.  ;D :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on January 26, 2007, 03:06:18 pm
Got my first 22" tank 8)

I phoned the main office of the recycling company and asked if he minded if I drove up to the Whistler transfer depot and spoke with the lead hand  in person and they told me that would be just fine.I drew up a little diagram with the dimension and included my name and number and drove the 35 minutes up there to drop it off and meet them.
Both guys up there are on the ball and they promised to set some aside for me.It turned out they had the right sized tank(22") in a bin and the lead hand went with me an helped toss it in the back of my truck.

They had heard nothing from the main office  ::)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on January 26, 2007, 05:51:22 pm

 Hot DanG. Smoke gets in yer eyes.  8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on January 26, 2007, 06:12:28 pm
Hey I forgot. There is a feller up the road, and unless I'm totally a corn ball here, who has a tank hooked up to some kind of tractor that he made himself ? Some day, when I get up the courage, I'm gonna stop in and get the story. For all I know that old hot water tank might be holding petrol gas. ;D  :D

And yes, if ever there was a bunch that fit the phrase "just rolled in on a turnip wagon, that be them". ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on January 31, 2007, 10:50:02 pm
It turns out the tank was only 20" but I can make it work,it'll just be tight to fit the 16, 3/8" pipes between the feed tank and the outside wall.The OD of the pipe is 5/8" and it has to fit in the 13/16" space between tanks.Drilling 11/16" holes on a steep concave slope will be a challenge too.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/hearth.jpg)

I cut an 18 inch tank at 33" to build the feed tank and hearth

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/cut-feedtank.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/cut-feedtank-a.jpg)

After the tank was cut the bottom was measured to fit the hearth and 16 holes marked out to fit the 3/8" air pipe supply pipes to the nozzles.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20hearth%20008-opt.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20hearth%20010-opt.jpg)

The enamel on the bottom of the tank was really flying when heat was applied
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on January 31, 2007, 10:53:46 pm
The hearth of cast iron is needed to prevent the air from cutting the red hot metal in the hearth zone.The temperatures at the hearth restrictions will be between 1700-2000F
The engine that will be powered with the woodgas is a 302 cu in and according to the plans,the hearth opening  5" dia.I bought a 8" and a 10" cast iron frying pans and cooked the oils out of them in the woodstove and then drilled a cirle pattern and knocked out the center.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20hearth%20001-opt.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20hearth%20003-opt.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20hearth%20004-opt.jpg)

The two cast iron pans were place back to back as shown in the diagram above,and placed on an old junker propane BBQ to preheat and keep hot while welding together with Nickel rod.After the welding was finished,the hearth was wrapped in pink insulation and placed in a bin of sand and then covered over in more sand andsawdust to cool slowly.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20hearth%20005-opt.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20hearth%20011-opt.jpg)

I'm still in the process of fitting the hearth in the tank but the pic shows the general idea.The hearth will have a screen of 1/8" Stainless steel wire.Tomorrow I'll take the die grinder to the hearth opening and pretty things up a bit.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Furby on January 31, 2007, 11:07:26 pm
Working by headlight?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on January 31, 2007, 11:21:56 pm
No,just the running lights on the car belonging to Tom's friend.It was a clear blue day but the camera made the pics look dark :)

This will be the truck for this project.It's a 79 F100 2wd standard trans.We'll go to town and pick it up friday and bring it home.It won't be ready to fit for who knows when but I want it handy.
(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-truck.jpg)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on February 01, 2007, 07:39:40 am
Yeah that Dang sun this time of year is in your face all day. So, the camera is either over exposed or dark.  ::) It's been sunny here non stop for 2 weeks now. There's been a nasty storm off the coast, but never touched us. Might see something tomorrow.

Be interesting to see that old Ford running on alternative fuel. ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Moonlight on February 03, 2007, 01:14:31 am
Nice ride. You are gonna have to come out and see me in it  ;)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on February 03, 2007, 12:08:51 pm
Welcome to the forum Moonlight.


"Moonlight" is my eldest daughter,Randi. :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on February 03, 2007, 12:30:52 pm
HI, moonlight. I figured you was Paul's daughter already from your location and message. He said he was out visiting ya around Christmas. I guess he's trying to find a cheaper way out now, eh? Oh well, just a day's drive. ;)  ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: beenthere on February 03, 2007, 02:11:28 pm
Welcome Moonlight.
Now let's here some good stories about this guy Paul_H.   :)

And some about yourself, and how the name Moonlight comes to be..........we're all ears  ;D

Without some explanation, we tend to make things up on our own.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: farmerdoug on February 03, 2007, 09:08:03 pm
Welcome , Moonlight. :)

You better watch these guys 'cause they can really make up some tall tales. ::)

Farmerdoug
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Furby on February 04, 2007, 12:02:10 am
Donk, if I understand things right.........
You burn wood to create gasses to run the truck engine on, right?
So how much wood would it take to make that day's drive and how much effort do ya figure he's gonna have involved? ;D

Welcome Moonlight! 8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Norm on February 04, 2007, 08:02:40 am
Welcome to the forum moonlight. :)

Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on February 04, 2007, 09:41:37 am
Furb, I think he needs a good sized trailer in tow. ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Jeff on February 04, 2007, 09:45:20 am
All he needs is a saw...

Welcome Moonlight!
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on February 04, 2007, 06:44:41 pm
How can I "J" bend the 3/8 pipe at home without using a proper bender with dies? Can I fill the pipe with sand to keep it from collapsing and then knock out the sand when it's done? Will it work?

I have to do this 16 times. ::)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Furby on February 04, 2007, 06:49:48 pm
Gonna be a lot of work, but yes you can.
Probly need to cap the ends.

Is it copper?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on February 04, 2007, 07:18:02 pm
It's black iron.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: beenthere on February 04, 2007, 07:43:01 pm
Have any pulley's (wheels, rims,) with the radius that you wanna bend to?  I've got a tubing bender that I could take a picture of, that I think with a couple wheels the right radius and a lever, you could make a bender. Gonna bend to a 90°, 180° ??

Might be able to turn a wood roller on a lathe that would have a groove that would fit the pipe and the right radius for bending around.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Furby on February 04, 2007, 07:49:56 pm
What Beenthere said mounted to a heavy plank will work.
You'll need a pin in place to hold the end of the pipe and may need to leave the pipe long and cut off the end, depending on how you end up building the jig.
Also, if you can leave the pipe as long as possible for leverage, and then cut off the bent part as you go will help.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on February 04, 2007, 07:52:49 pm
 That's gonna be tough with sand. Don't know anybody that could hep ya ??? No fabrication shops that have a machine ???

 That's a LOT of stretch. Hope the seam doesn't open up ???

  Holding the bending end will be a trick ???  ::) ::)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on February 04, 2007, 08:04:34 pm
Beenthere,

if you would post a pic of the bender I'd be thankfull. I see that a clothesline pulley has the right sized groove for the pipe but it's made of pot metal so it may not hold up.The bend will be 180°
 
Harold,
There are two machine shops locally I could use and I still may but I wanted to see what options I had for doing it at home.I'll give the local rental shop a call tomorrow and see what they have.

Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on February 04, 2007, 08:34:36 pm

 Ed and I have bent hundreds of curved handles for the sand scoops. It was 1" EMT thinwall, and was all we could do with the right sized Hickey Bender and a 3' X 1" iron pipe handle.

  Keeping your balance is the biggest problem.  Before we proceeded very far into marketing the product, I made a "Wheel" Bender from 3 pieces of ¾" plywood sandwiched, on my wood lathe. Still had the problem of balance and power.

  Rental might have something ???  Gonna be interesting. What's the radius ???
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Chet on February 04, 2007, 08:41:49 pm
Last time I had ta bend some pipe like that I took it to da local custom muffler shop. Cost me a whole 6 pack of barley pops.   ;)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Minnesota_boy on February 04, 2007, 08:49:24 pm
I think I'd be heating that black iron pipe until it weren't black no more before I'd try bending it.  Gotta stretch the outside pretty far to come around. :o
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on February 04, 2007, 09:06:12 pm
I think you're right about the heat :)
The radius will be 3-4" if we can get away with it.I may see if John is around the machine shop but he likes to sneak off for warmer climates this time of year. ;)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: beenthere on February 04, 2007, 09:10:14 pm
I have a pic (more if wanted) of the tubing bender (thinking black iron pipe would not work too well without heating, and then probably not flow right) that I threw together for 3/8" tube. Pic shows a 3/8" wood dowel inserted. The lower handle is moved toward the upper handle, turning the 'wheel' that is grooved for the 3/8" tube (other sizes of 1/2, 5/8, 3/4 shown separate) with a latch holding the tube to the wheel.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/Bender_ff.jpg)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on February 04, 2007, 09:16:03 pm

 BT, ya writ "tube", If that's whatcher bendin, that's great. PIPE is a LOT tougher, especially that small of a radius.

  I like the tool, though.  8) 8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on February 04, 2007, 09:23:32 pm
Thanks for posting the pic Beenthere.What did you use them for,mostly?
The od of the pipe is 5/8 so I wonder if a hyd press with dies is what is needed?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: beenthere on February 04, 2007, 09:27:34 pm
Yup, FDH is right. It's a tube bender, not pipe bender.

Paul
Guessing el's and threaded pipe makin the bend won't work?  Needs to be bent to work?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: beenthere on February 04, 2007, 09:33:23 pm
Paul
I found 180° black pipe elbows, but only go down to ½" pipe, not 3/8". In McMaster-Carr online.

Nothing bent to turn back 180°

Pic of the 180 elbow

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/Elbow.jpg)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on February 05, 2007, 08:35:24 am

 I was thinkin I seen sumat one time, in 1" size ???  Good post BT.  ;)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on February 06, 2007, 04:19:55 pm
I talked to John at the machine shop yesterday and he told me to bring the pipes by this morning.John has a small farm and runs a great machine shop,very tidy on the outside and it blends in well in the rural neighbourhood.A good cottage industry.
John took the measurements I come up with and started to make up a grooved hub on the lathe @ 4"  for the bend.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/bend-pipe.jpg)

I took this picture and then I went home to work on the hearth.John called just before lunch and asked me to head back to the shop and have a look at the first pipe that he bent.
He used heat on the first pipe but then we put a cheater bar on the end of the lever and bent the next one cold and it turned out well!


(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/bend-pipe-a.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/bend-pipe-b.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/bend-pipe-c.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/bend-pipe-d.jpg)


 
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on February 06, 2007, 04:45:13 pm

  That's a right smart of a heavy duty bender.  8) 8) 8)

 
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on February 06, 2007, 04:57:29 pm
I'll say.  :) Pretty cool stuff. Probably home made to. ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: JimBuis on February 06, 2007, 04:58:58 pm
Very nice work.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on February 06, 2007, 06:05:11 pm
John just threw it together this morning.

I just got called back to work on the road crew a few minutes ago.I start tomorrow morning on a bridge so it looks like this project might become hit and miss because it'll be dark out when i get home.  :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on February 06, 2007, 06:51:03 pm

 Why, Shoot, Paul. Just make a Faar  8) 8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Furby on February 06, 2007, 07:44:29 pm
Where are those headlights when ya need them ??? ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on February 07, 2007, 07:45:10 am
.....or toasty warm shop for that matter. ;)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Furby on February 07, 2007, 09:05:58 pm
I think he forgot to move the shop when he was moving the rest of the buildings. ;)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on February 07, 2007, 09:28:52 pm
You mean after all the excitement of moving that camp that sea sawed when going down the driveway and just clearing the wires, resulted in no shop? hmm  ::)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on February 07, 2007, 10:02:42 pm
I have a little tiny shop with a bench but the building is so old and dry that I'm afraid to do any grinding in there.It's only about 25' from our house  :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: farmerdoug on February 07, 2007, 11:54:22 pm
Paul,  You better be careful with this project.  If they find out you burn wood to drive they will be sending you all over to work on jobs.  ::) If you complain about the cost of fuel they will just give you a box of trimming and tell you to be there tomorrow. ;) :D :D :D :D

Farmerdoug
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Furby on February 08, 2007, 12:27:56 am
Thinking he's gonna need one cool looking topper on the truck to help hide as much of this as he can.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on February 09, 2007, 11:52:29 pm
farmerdoug,
where I'm working right now,the road is so rough from the frost coming out of the road that it takes 1 hour and 45 min one way,which is 55 kilometres from the shop yard ???
I got home early today and jumped right back on the project.


This is the bottom of the top tank and the opening will receive the 18" feed tank with nozzles and hearth.The 16 holes shown in the pic will hold the air tubes.The chalk lines were put along the tank as a guide for the coresponding holes on the top of the tank.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20009-opt.jpg)

Once the holes were drilled I cut the 14" hole which will be where the wood is fed from.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20011-opt.jpg)


The two tanks were joined temporily to check the fit and make sure that the tubes will slide into place.The J bends go up through into the hearth zone and will have the nozzles threaded in once I calculate the jet sizes.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20012-opti.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20013-opti.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20014-opt.jpg)


It doesn't look like I'll get to it this weekend but I'm looking forward to welding it all together and then start work on the lid and air manifold.



Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on February 10, 2007, 06:21:39 am

 Looking good, Senor  8) 8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: pineywoods on February 10, 2007, 09:12:37 am
Please keep the pics coming. Looks great. I'v often wondered how one of these would work if you loaded a small round hay bale insteaad of wood chips. I had the guy who bales my hay to leave me some small ones that would fit, but I've never got around to welding up the burner. Got a 76 ford pickup to use as a test bed.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: TW on February 10, 2007, 02:43:39 pm
Good luck with the project Paul_H and keep us informed. It will be really interresting to see how it works.

The wood gas was called "gengas" in Swedish
There is a retired lorry driver living less than a kilometre from here. He started driving lorries during the war. He has told me a bit about the gengas powered cars.
One time he was almost killed when the gengas pipe sprung a leak and intoxicated the air in the car. Luckily he fell towards the door and the door opened. The engines had much less power on that fuel so they had problems going uphill. Sometimes they run out of fuel on the road and had to steal some firewood. The gengas was hard on the engine oil so the oil should have been shifted often, but no new engine oil was available.
Only the army used petrol in some of it's vehicles. Everything else run on gengas or did not run at all.

The village museum has an old gengas gasifyer that was used to power a boat engine during the war. I wish I had a digital camera so I could post a picture of it.



Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on February 11, 2007, 12:51:05 am
Thanks for the encouragement,on the way home from work today(Saturday) I was wondering if my posts were making sense or was it a just bunch of pictures of rusty used water tanks and frying pans ::)

pineywoods,

the plans I have,show how to modify a two barrel carb for a Ford if you ever decide to build a woodgas generator.I don't know whether or not they have run these on hay but if I run across any info,I'll pass it on to you.

TW,

I have a couple questions for you.

Is "puukaasu",the Finnish word for "gengas"?

Finland still has an active group building and running woodgas powered cars from what I've read.
Is this a Finnish website? It has some good pictures.

 Link (http://www.koiramaentalo.fi/galleria_c.htm)

Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: beenthere on February 11, 2007, 02:29:41 am
Ya, I been seein dem rusty tanks and fryin pans, ya der.  You betcha!

But dat is excitin, jus by herself. :)  ya
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: TW on February 11, 2007, 04:48:45 am
Puukaasu means woodgas, actually puu is wood and kaasu is gas. Puukaasutin means wood gasifyer.

The webpage is "The peasant farmer museum Yli-Kirra". The only woodgas related I found on the page were those pictures of a woodgas powered tractor (Fordson N?)ploughing. Actually I think Bolinder-Munktell made a series of tractors special built for woodgas. I am not sure about that.

There is a good site in Swedish www.gengas.nu

I am not fully fluent in Finnish but I understand it quite well. If you need any shorter text in Finnish or Swedish or Norwegian translated or explained, just tell and I will try to help.

I wish I had time and skill to try that kind of project myself.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Norm on February 11, 2007, 10:20:34 am
Thanks for the encouragement,on the way home from work today(Saturday) I was wondering if my posts were making sense or was it a just bunch of pictures of rusty used water tanks and frying pans  ::)

Well I was a bit horrified to see you cut holes in perfectly good cast iron frying pans but felt that if I said anything it just might tip you over the edge. Then I realized spring is really not that far away and soon enough you'll be able to get back to normal again. ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Jeff on February 11, 2007, 10:27:05 am
 :D  :D  :D

Norm, yer a "gas"  :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on February 11, 2007, 12:48:49 pm
 :D Norm,

I wish I had a rebuttal but I got nuthin  ;)

TW,

I appreciate the help with the translation and I'll probably have some more questions for you. I'm going to try a webpage translator on the link you posted.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on February 11, 2007, 01:42:30 pm
Well the webpage translation didn't work too good

Quote
Tillägnad alla oss idealistiska kufar som tycker om att bli sotiga, hugga ved och åka bil långsammare än nödvändigt.
Den är också tillägnad samma kufar som inte vill släppa ut mer koldioxid än nödvändigt i atmosfären, de idealister som genomför projektet och de drömmare som önskar att de hade gjort det.


became this....    ??? :D

Quote
Dedicate all of us idealistic kufar as fancy if that become sotiga, chop firewood and travel auto slowest than necessarily.
The is also dedicate same kufar as nots shall dismiss more carbon dioxide than necessarily in ambience, they ideals as carried out plan and they visionaries as am desiring that they had done in.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: OneWithWood on February 12, 2007, 10:03:48 am
Paul, I admire your drive - and your ambition :)

It is nice to see folks who start a project, stick to it and actually finish it.  I have a gaziilion projects started and very few near completion.  Seems I spend a bunch of time just thinkin' about which project to work on  :D

Keep it up.  We can't wait to see the video of your truck in action.  splitwood_smiley candle_smiley fire_smiley
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on February 12, 2007, 08:32:36 pm
OWW,

Thanks but I have lots of unfinished projects too  :)
I'm trying to keep the momentum going for this project because I've been working at it over a year now just gathering info and scrounging parts.I just need a few solid days of welding and fitting to finish the generator and then move on to the cooler/filter.

Here is a link with good videos of a woodgas powered Jeep.The guy did a fantastic job,I just wish I could understand him :D

Link (http://www.woodgas.fi/)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: TW on February 13, 2007, 02:06:08 am
Well the webpage translation didn't work too good

Quote
Tillägnad alla oss idealistiska kufar som tycker om att bli sotiga, hugga ved och åka bil långsammare än nödvändigt.
Den är också tillägnad samma kufar som inte vill släppa ut mer koldioxid än nödvändigt i atmosfären, de idealister som genomför projektet och de drömmare som önskar att de hade gjort det.


became this....    ??? :D

Quote
Dedicate all of us idealistic kufar as fancy if that become sotiga, chop firewood and travel auto slowest than necessarily.
The is also dedicate same kufar as nots shall dismiss more carbon dioxide than necessarily in ambience, they ideals as carried out plan and they visionaries as am desiring that they had done in.

Should be this
Dedicated to all us idealistic odd fellows who like to get sooty,chop firewood and drive car slower than necsessary.....And so on

Paul H
I will try to put together a translated list of content of the site so you can find what you are looking for. There is a big technical section too.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: OneWithWood on February 13, 2007, 07:05:33 am
Paul, I watched the video and I think I understand what he is saying.  Here is my rough translation:

First ve season da vood - ya use da goot hickory or sometimes da apple
Den ve light da fir
Den ve drive a bit
Den ve add da ham and sausages
Den ve drive a bit
Den ve add da beans - ya dat is crucial, da beans, dat makes the gas!
Den ve drive a bit
Ya almost all figgered out, jest need to figgure the cornbread, ya den ve have big feast!

I like the separate trailer rig but I bet parallel parking is a bit difficult!
Are you going to drive yours to the piggy roast?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: TW on February 13, 2007, 09:19:59 am
One with wood
Wrong translation. This text concerns the new improved model that runs on pea soup and sauerkraut instead of beans. ;D

About www.gengas.nu

In the box to the left reads:
Hitta rätt=find your way
Vanliga frågor=common questions
Bakgrund=background
Bilder=pictures
Om gengas= about woodgas
Varför=Why
Litteratut=litterature
Kuriosa=odd facts
Byggbeskrivningar=building instructions
     leads to      Gasgenerator av SMP = gasgenerator by Statens Maskinprovning
                       Kubbmaskin= a kind of wood processing machine
                       Gasgenerator= gasgenerator
                       Glasfiberdukrenare=Fiberglass cloth gas cleaner
                       Cyklonrenare=Cyklon gas cleaner
Bestämmelser=government rules
Reseskildringar=travel narratives
Länkar=links

This might make it easier


Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on February 13, 2007, 09:41:28 pm
OWW,

Don't forget da Kumpa :)

I like the trailer setup too,it seems that with a quik coupling it would be fairly simple to use on different vehicles with similar sized engines.

TW,

Thanks for the help with the translation!Was the fellow with the Jeep a Finn? He seemed to speak with a Swede/Norsk singsong.


I just got in from work but if I have time after supper I'll post a drawing that I need help with in regards to nozzle sizes.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on February 13, 2007, 11:24:42 pm
I am trying to find the proper nozzle sizes for the generator.The chart shows that my 302 would fall right on the line at 300 cu in and 8 nozzles would be at .38 and the other 8 would be .27 My understanding of this is I would drill the orifices at .27=1/4" and .38 =3/8" roughly.
The nozzle area(Am ) on the chart shows 1.5 square inches at 2800 RPM

My problem here is that the number of nozzles are doubled in the newer design so we have 32 nozzles.Fast guesstamation is each nozzle would be 5/32 but it is stressed that nozzle size is extremly important so I want to get it right.
If anybody is willing to help me with the calculations,I can e-mail more information.I would like to be able to figure this out and make it available to others that may want to build a generator and have a good basis for making the calculations on any sized engine.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20003-nozzle-specs.jpg)

The ash has an angle of repose of around 50° and forms the outside of the cone,the bottom of the cone in this case is 14"(nozzle ring ) and the top is 5"(hearth restriction) The vertical distance from the Hearth restriction to the nozzle ring is 4 1/2" shown in the next two diagrams

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20002-nozzle-specs.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/nozzle%20area.jpg)





Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: beenthere on February 13, 2007, 11:34:54 pm
Do you know that the diameter between the nozzles is 14" so need the area of the 14" diam circle, or 154 in sq. ?

I suspect I'm missing something here.  ::)

Interested in what it is.   :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on February 13, 2007, 11:40:01 pm
From what I can gather,it is the volume of the cone with the 14" base that is needed.My crayon drawing shows the upside down cone in Red.

I'll admit I'm out of my element but I'm enjoying the trip  ;)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: beenthere on February 13, 2007, 11:48:19 pm
So if we find the area of the truncated cone at 2.25" (or diameter would be 9½" halfway up). The area ½ way up would be 70.88 in sq, and that times the height of 4.5" would be 319 in cu.

I'll check the math, but it's how I would do it.

Yep, this volume is similar to getting the volume of a log, by measuring the end diameters, average them to get the diameter halfway along the log, and use that diameter to calculate the log as if it were a cylinder, rather than a truncated cone.

You might need more than that volume, dat right?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on February 14, 2007, 06:06:28 am
Why not just Vcone = 1/3x(Area of Base)x(height), of course you'de have to estimate the length of the cone missing to come to the apex of the cone if it existed and deduct that area.

Area base= pi x D2/4
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: farmerdoug on February 14, 2007, 06:45:18 pm
SD has the right idea.

Here is the formula for the area of a truncated cone.

V=1/3*pi*h(radiusone squared+(radiusone*radiustwo)+radiustwo squared)

V=1/3*3.142*4.5(2.5squared+(2.5*7)+7squared)

V=342.87 cubic inches

Checking my math is a good idea as it is a little rusty.  Now how do you get super and subscript again?

Beenthere, your idea works in two dimensions but the third kills it.

Farmerdoug
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: farmerdoug on February 14, 2007, 07:14:31 pm
Paul,

If you make all of the nozzles the same size them I come up with nozzle diameter of .244 inches, so lets just call it a 1/4 inch.  You have to remember that changing the diameter of a circle changes the area exponentially.

Total=32(pi*r squared)

1.5=32(3.142*r squared)

.04687=3.142*r squared

.014919= r squared

.12214=r

Diameter=r*2=.24428 inches


Now my math is rusty so it needs to be checked.


Farmerdoug
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on February 14, 2007, 07:36:11 pm
Even simpler, easier to measure diameter. ;)

Vtruncated cone=1/12 x π x h (d12 + d1d2 + d22)

π=3.14
h = height
d1=diameter top
d2=diameter bottom

Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: farmerdoug on February 14, 2007, 08:02:43 pm
SD,

How did you get the super and subscripts?

Farmerdoug
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on February 14, 2007, 08:09:18 pm
You'll see them above the smilies in the posting editor.


Just hilight the text before clicking the sup or sub icons.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Jeff on February 14, 2007, 08:11:20 pm
Donk ya made me dizzy.  :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: farmerdoug on February 14, 2007, 08:16:16 pm
SD, thanks for pointing that out.  I never even saw that. :D

Farmerdoug
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on February 14, 2007, 08:43:13 pm
Farmerdoug and SD,
I sent you both IM's with more info.I cut and pasted from a woodgas site.

I'm still trying to figure out how the plans came up with the 1 1/2 square inch nozzle area in the Am chart and what is the corelation between that and the 8, .38 nozzles + the 8, .27 nozzles.

It has to do with the volume of air needed by a 302 cu in engine running at 2800 rpm.
My limited understanding of the nozzle sizing has been explained as holding your thumb over a garden hose.The volume coming out is the same but there is more force.The air in the hearth zone is supposed to cut,or penetrate if you will (?)

The term used is "superficial velocity"


(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20003-nozzle-specs.jpg)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: farmerdoug on February 14, 2007, 09:07:34 pm
Paul,  It looks like someone did calculations or trail and error to get the ranges shown on your graph. 

I can understand the 1.5 squared inch air inlet area.  It is sized to provide the optimum inlet for the air to fuel ratio in the burner to provide adequate gas production for your size engine.

Now as to the two sizes of nozzles.  I see that in your picture one is pointed horizontal and one is pointed vertical.  They maybe sized different to keep the burning in the chamber area for concentration of heat.  I cannot tell which size is which but I would bet the vertical maybe the smaller one.  We will need to make the same correlation for your 32 jets too.

In the email you sent me Max was calculating the top of the cone and height also based on fuel flow volumes to the engine.  I am assuming that you have already decided on the height and diameter from your earlier post?

Farmerdoug
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on February 14, 2007, 09:45:51 pm
Yes the height and diameters are correct for the engine size and RPMs.

Here are a couple of quotes from Mother Earth News from whom I bought the plans.Then the modified them again and drilled an extra hole on top of each of the 16 nozzles giving 16 horizontal and 16 vertical.


Quote
Then, to solve the bridging problem, we oriented the
outlet tips of the manifold pipes so that the "odd" eight point
straight upward ...and the remaining "even" nozzles aim inward,
toward the center of the hearth opening (see the illustration). The
benefits of this arrangement are twofold: The horizontal jets provide
combustion air for oxidation at the entrance level ...while the
vertical outlets reduce the size of the chunks of wood about to enter
the hearth by cutting away at them like miniature torches, thus
eliminating the possibility of having a "logjam" block the flow of
fresh fuel.




Quote
the 250-cubic-inch powerplant used in our Chevrolet truck
(which turns at about 2,800 revolutions per minute at 55 MPH, the
speed at which most of its mileage is logged) requires an overall
nozzle area of 1.237" (horizontals 0.36", and verticals 0.26" in
diameter) ...a nozzle-to-hearth separation of 5-1/2" ...and a hearth
restriction width of about 5-1/4". (Generally, the total nozzle area
should be 5 to 10% of the overall hearth area.) To size the openings
in the nozzles, we simply drilled holes of the proper diameter
through 16 pipe caps, and threaded them over the feed-tube outlets.
Likewise, the orifice at the base of the hearth (that platform, by
the way, is fashioned from a No. 5 cast-iron frying pan) was made by
boring a series of adjacent holes in a circular pattern and then
knocking out the resulting "plug". In any case, the dimensions given
are merely guidelines, and-should you wish to construct a unit of
your own-you can likely extrapolate from these figures according to
your engine's displacement and working speed, and still come out in
the ballpark.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: farmerdoug on February 14, 2007, 10:21:46 pm
Paul,

I will assume that you have sized the hearth where you want it.

I back figured the nozzles and found a 2-1 ratio in area.  So I recalculated your nozzles and have the two sizes for the 32 nozzles as;
D=.206 inches
D=.282 inches  I guess the arrangment of the sizes are up to you as I have not seen anything that states otherwise.

Farmerdoug
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on February 15, 2007, 12:09:01 am
I should have posted this earlier.It explains superficial velocity.

Woodgas Link (http://www.woodgas.com/Superficial%20Velocity.pdf)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on February 17, 2007, 11:20:44 pm
Farmerdoug has been helping me a lot through IM's and a phone call to make sure the proper calculations have been done for the hearth size and nozzles.He has a very good understanding of how the generator works and I hope he will jump in and explain it as he did for me in laymens terms.Through this we realized that I had omitted info that is crucial so here are a a couple more charts.

I also realised today while preparing to weld up the air pipes that I mis-measured the nozzle ring diameter.It is 12" diameter not 14" as posted the other night so I may have to make changes.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20hearthdia.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20017-hearth-nozzle.jpg)




Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: farmerdoug on February 18, 2007, 12:15:33 am
Paul,

I will expand on what we talked about when I have a little more sleep.

To answer your last question I will take a stab at it right now.

According to the graphs you have posted you need a 5 inch nozzle high and a 5.33 inch hearth.  I am assuming that you have to calculate the top diameter based on a 60 degree angle.

Now I will calculate it based on a 5 inch height and a 5 inch hearth that you all ready have.

Tan°= opposite/adjacent

Tan30°=opp/5

.5773=opp/5
2.8865=opposite side for a 60° angle

so top diameter is
hearth+(2*opp)
5+(2*2.8865)=10.773 top diameter

since your hearth is a little smaller than needed you will probably be okay with the 12 inch top diameter.

If you had a 5.33 inch hearth then the top diameter would have to be 11.103 inches so you are close at 12 inches.

If this does not click I will try again tomorrow.

Farmerdoug
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on February 24, 2007, 11:40:17 pm
Got the weekend off so I had a chance to fit the air tubes and weld things together.The nozzle ring is 12" diameter and the nozzle-hearth separation is 5".
It was a fiddly job  to measure and fit the 16 pipes and weld them at 4 points each but I'm 3/4 done.


I welded the pipes and cut of the excess.This picture shows 8 welded and cut off and the other half ready to weld

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodga-gen-a.jpg)

This next one is looking inside from the top.The 16 pipes sticking up from the bottom will have a 90° elbow pointing toward the center with a hole sized for a nozzle.The cast iron frying pan in the center is the hearth(sorry Norm  ::) )

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-gen-hearthview.jpg)


A view from the bottom.The hearth will have a grid of 1/8" Stainless steel rod as a grate(1 rod already in place) The woodgas will come down through the hearth and the air tubes will help cool the gas and the combustion air coming in through the tubes will be preheated in the process.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/wood-rh.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-gen.jpg)

I hope to get some more welding done tomorrow afternoon.Aint it a cool looking contraption? :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Jeff on February 24, 2007, 11:54:11 pm
If I had to guess what it was cold, id say it was out of a Jet engine. :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ianab on February 25, 2007, 12:20:08 am
When do you install the Flux Capacitor  ???  :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Moonlight on February 25, 2007, 12:31:33 am
That looks pretty neat Paul   smiley_greg_walking_stilts
I'm proud of you for building it. It looks complex. smiley_tom_dizzyguy03
I really like the smileys on here. smiley_dunce
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: OneWithWood on February 26, 2007, 04:28:26 pm
When do you install the Flux Capacitor  ???  :D


 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D 8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on April 09, 2007, 08:23:43 pm
It's been awhile but I've been working on the generator whenever I can.
Welding up the air tubes was slow and painfull because there wasn't room to run the bead 360° around the tubes where the two tanks join,so I had to weld a few inches along the tubes.If I had been able to find a 22" tank,it would have been easier.
I had to fill the monorator with water and mark any drips or weeping and weld some more and then test it again.
Finally,no leaks!

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20029-opt.jpg)

The pic below is the monorator and it's purpose is to catch the condensation from the feed tank as the wood heats up and it contacts the cool outer wall of the tank.From there the water that collects will go down to a small tank.(Note the water laying in the monorator)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20031-opt.jpg)

Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on April 09, 2007, 10:34:33 pm
Next on the list was the air manifold that serves to feed the air tubes and is also the seat that the lid to the feedtank will close and seal on.

It was constructed with the top of another 20" tank and a 1 1/2 inch strip cut from another tank to fill the gap between tops.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20032.jpg-opt.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20034-opt.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20035-opt.jpg)

The strip cut from the tank had the ceramic bonding that lines the hotwater tanks still holding fast and it didn't want to come off with a grinder so I had to be patient while welding and it produced a really tough slag to chip off.It seemed to be easy to burn a hole in the metal that wasn't bare metal.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20036-opt.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20037-opt.jpg)


The tops of some of the tanks have bumps,or crowns so a bit of marking and grinding was required.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20038-opt.jpg)

Then a 1 1/2" coupler was added for the air inlet,which will have a one way check valve added later.(anyone know where to source one?)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20039-opt.jpg)

And finally,everything welded up.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20042-opt.jpg)


I guess the next step is the lid assembly and then on to the tank bottom.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: TexasTimbers on April 10, 2007, 09:57:58 am
Paul I admire your sticktoitivness. If this thing works you are going to have to get a secretary because everyone is going to be calling you and saying things like "I read the thread over and over but I just have one small question about . . . yad yada yada  . . . .. . 30 minutes later "Oh and I almost forgot to ask . . . . . .yada yada yada " :D

I take my hat off to you. Very impressive.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: pineywoods on April 10, 2007, 11:55:17 am
check valve source......your local plumbers supply..most places require one between your house plumbing and the city water main to keep possible contaminated water from backfeeding into the supply. They are usually made of brass, don't think the pvc type would work too well on a gas generator ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on April 10, 2007, 12:27:08 pm
Well, what I wanna know is.....where do I put the griddle for making my pancake breakfast? ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Jeff on April 10, 2007, 12:30:17 pm
Well, what I wanna know is.....where do I put the griddle for making my pancake breakfast? ;D

Ooowee. Good thing Paul is a gentleman cause thats a question that could be answered with a painful solution.  ;):D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on April 10, 2007, 12:48:21 pm
I've come to expect just about anything.  ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: slowzuki on April 10, 2007, 02:11:07 pm
It sure looks to me that Paul's fixin to build a still not a truck, all this talk about condensing this and catching that :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: TexasTimbers on April 10, 2007, 02:42:25 pm
they're back up now!

i take all of that info with a grain of salt.... sorta like Tesla's car that ran on a box with two posts out of it. Legend has it he made a box that got its energy from natural electric fields. The press said he made a pact with the devil to get the car to run, so he got mad, boxed up his invention and died with the secret. I think it's all a bunch of bunk (though legand also holds that the US Gov't confiscated 43 trunks of his study documents and classified them after he died).... good for the conspiricy thinkers.

Don't know about the trunk although I read his autobio, but I am glad to see that he is starting to recieve his due for all his scientific achievements. Maybe one day it will be common knowledge that it was in fact Nikola Tesla that invented radio and not Marconi as is the commonly distributed myth/lie whatever you ewant to call it. Even though the U.S. Supreme Court has recognized him as such in 1943, amazingly, school books and history books still do not give the correct information about this! Of course they have only had a whole century to get it right.  ::)

I am also glad that he won his competition with Edison (Thomas Edison was actually quite a dishonest and devious man) as to his version of electricity (AC) versus Edisons version (DC) or else the second Industrial Revolution as we refer to it today would have never happened. We would not be using computers for sure.
He was so far ahead of his time that he invented and used wireless communication in the early 1890s. He also invented poly phase (2 and 3 phase),  the AC motor and hundreds and hundreds of other patents and inventions.

Certainly, even though he was truly eccentric or bizarre or wierd or fantastical or whatever you want to call him, he was the greatest electrical mind the world has ever seen IMHO. I would suggest everyone to read A Man Out of Time by MArgaret Chaney (?). If you do make sure you put the "Closed" sign up on the sawmill because once you start it you can't put it down.

I have harnessed the cosmic rays and caused them to operate a motive device. Nikola Tesla
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: OneWithWood on April 10, 2007, 06:52:23 pm
Good post Kevjay.  I would only add that there are some industrious individuals on this forum that might give ole Tesla a run for his money.  ;)

Paul,
Keep at it.  We are all waiting for you to drive the beast to the first piggy roast in the UP.  Might even help propel Kevin to new heights  :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on April 10, 2007, 10:53:50 pm
Thanks for the encouragement ;) :)

I've got a couple more days off right now and I'm caught between working on the gasifier or doing what needs doing in the yard and around the house now that spring is here. ::)

Pineywoods,
thanks for the tip on the check valve source,I'll check with the supplier tomorrow.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: sawguy21 on April 10, 2007, 11:39:23 pm
Right on kevjay, it is all a commie right wing leftist goobermint conspiracy funded by the Arab oil producers. ;)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Buzz-sawyer on April 24, 2007, 04:30:19 pm
It sure looks to me that Paul's fixin to build a still not a truck, all this talk about condensing this and catching that :D
As you probably know zuki.....he really is building a type of still , he is doing violent distilation....inthis case the the catalsyis combustion :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on May 08, 2007, 02:04:30 am
I was able to get a little more done today.Lots of vise,drill and hacksaw work to build and install the tuyeres(nozzles).Note the tuyere has a small hole on the top.It was drilled out to 13/64th and the horizontal hole was drilled to 9/32.
These orifice sizes were chosen thanks to Farmerdoug's help in the calculations to find the correct size for the superficial velocity.
Thank you Doug.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20044-opt.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20045-opt.jpg)

Installed and looking up from the bottom at the tuyere ring,16 each with two orifices for a total of 32 "jets"
 
(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20053-opt.jpg)

The screen for the hearth was woven with stainless steel rod inserted through about 32 holes drilled around the hearth.This screen will suspend the coals but allow air and ash to flow through.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20054-opt.jpg)

Here the 20 gauge stainless steel liner is being pushed in from the top and it will sit on the outside of the tuyere ring and protect the wall of the tank.It'll be held out from the wall a half inch or so with fibreglass insulation but the ash itself,once accumulated should both insulate and protect the tank wall.

Putting the liner through the top was like trying to shove a Cat into a bag.I got bit and scratched and it tried to jump back out a couple times  ;)

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20056-opt.jpg)

And finally,the liner is in place between the tank and the tuyere ring.The hearth and screen is also in place.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20058-opt.jpg)


Tomorrow,I will try to fit the bottom of the unit on including the gas outlet.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on May 08, 2007, 07:52:03 am
 I been lookin North, tryin to spot a column of smoke movin about  8)

  Yer gonna have this thing workin before I get the Bio-Cruiser converted  ??? 8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: beenthere on May 08, 2007, 09:40:24 am
Paul
You are makin good progress, and great pics.  :) :) :)

Anxious here to be seein da smoke, like FDH
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: OneWithWood on May 08, 2007, 10:05:06 am
It's coming together nicely, Paul.  It won't be long now  ;)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: TexasTimbers on May 08, 2007, 10:34:54 am
Keep on chooglin Paul; you're on the doorstep! 8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on May 15, 2007, 12:59:00 am
Still chooglin ;)

I've got two days off and the weather in my shop is sunny and warm so things have been moving along nicely.

When I was driving past a dumpsite in the bush this Spring,I noticed a driveshaft about 3.5" dia so I stopped and grabbed it to use as a gas outlet for the gasifier.I traced the templates to fit the 22" dia and marked it with soapstone and then cut it out with the torch and cleaned it up with the grinder.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20059-opt.jpg)

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20060-opt.jpg)

Pure Obtainium!
 
(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20061-opt.jpg)

Next on the list was to cut another bottom out of a 22" tank to weld onto the inside bottom of the gasifier tank as a heat shield. 1" spacers were tacked on and then rock wool was added before dropping it all into the bottom of the tank and welding it up.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20062-opt.jpg)

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20063-opt.jpg)

It was a real bearcat to weld inside the tank because of the glass lining in the old tanks.It will not grind off with the grinder.I've had limited success with heating the glass to melting point and then scraping it off with the chisel but it aint very productive.The glass forms a hard slag and I have to be really carefull not to burn holes when the glass bonding is present.
I was wondering if any of you would have any ideas? I was wondering about Muriatic acid ?  ???

Here is looking in at the tank bottom through the 4" cleanout port.The bottom "J" of an airtube is just visible in the top of the pic and the superheated gas will pass over the air tubes from the bottom and rise up to the gas outlet tube.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20068-opt.jpg)

Here are the two halves ready to be joined together.(Note the oval cutout for the gas outlet)

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20069-opt.jpg)

And finally,after some blood blisters and cuts,they are joined,tacked and ready to weld up in the morning! 8)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20067-opt.jpg)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Sid on May 15, 2007, 10:20:19 pm
Don't know much about stoves,but know a little about Corn Whisky ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on May 21, 2007, 11:51:22 pm
I've pretty much completed the gasifier part of the project now except for the lid gasket and some wire wheeling and paint.I did some work on the condensate tank today and have it fitted and also have the lid handle and latch done.

The condensate tank collects the condensation from the wood as it heats up in the feedtank.The water is cooled by the air inlet pipes and collects in the "monorator" before heading out the pipe and down to the condensate tank.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/condensate-tank.jpg)

The tank was an air tank scavenged from a old Madill logging yarder and the pipes,all 1" black iron were cut at home and taken to the machine shop for threading.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20071-opt.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20072-opt.jpg)

The bottom valve will be used to drain of the collected water,it is connected to a pipe that extends 1/3 into the tank so when the water is drained,there is always some left over to create a vacuum seal.The valve above drains the entire tank for cleaning.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20073-opt.jpg)

This next pic is of the lid hinge which is a 3/8 pipe nipple between two female elbows welded to a automobile leaf spring to which the lid itself is bolted.It makes a nice tight hinge.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20075-hinge.jpg)

and finally the handle and latch

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20076-opt.jpg)

I've got some Black and Silver high heat paint.I was thinking either all Black with Silver lid and Blue condensate tank or Black bottom and Silver top. :) ::)

Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on May 22, 2007, 12:56:07 am
The next move is to decide which type of cooler and filter system to go with.The first pic shows the updated(1981) MEN filter that they used to go cross country in their truck.
The gas must pass through water with an anti foaming agent(dishwasher detergent) then up the side of tank #1 and hen back down through the water in tank #2 then it passes through a bubbler in tank #3 and exits out the pipe to the engine.

It's like a giant Hookah pipe :)

The problem with this system is it relies on water and that could cause some real problems here from October through March.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-filter.jpg)

This next pic isn't too clear but it is a 5' high,6 inch diameter pipe with 12,  1/2" tubing forming cooler in the same fashion as a vertical boiler only here the gas travels through the tubes which are surrounded with circulating engine coolant.

From there the cooled gas passes through a second column with with a fibreglass filter medium

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-filter-b.jpg)

I'm sure open to suggestions :)

Here is a link to a woodgas project on You Tube.I believe they are Swedes(I notice it takes three Swedes to do the work of one Norwegian)  :D

You Tube link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi7Yf8-sAxM)




Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Chet on May 22, 2007, 01:01:56 am
It's like a giant Hookah pipe :)

 :o   
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on May 22, 2007, 01:07:42 am
What does that mean in Yooper? ::)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: pineywoods on May 22, 2007, 08:54:25 am
The gengas site shows how to use a 30 gallon garbage can filled with wood chips for a filter. Just a garbage can with an air tight lid, an inlet pipe for the gas at the bottom and an outlet pipe near the top. the whole thing filled with the same chips the burner uses for fuel. For a cooler, think truck radiator or the intercooler off a dodge cummins.
I'm following this project with great  interest. I'm wondering if the burner would tolerate sawdust instead of wood chips?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on May 22, 2007, 11:41:00 am
pineywoods,

I think there could be packing and bridging problems with sawdust unless there was a way to keep it suspended.I don't know if the nozzles would work in this design.

Quote
For a cooler, think truck radiator or the intercooler off a dodge cummins

I've been talking to a fella in WI that runs an old Studebaker on woodgas and he has been messing with radiators.He said it was causing way too much resistance on the rad he was using.It was a large car rad that he adapted 3" inlets but I suppose a larger rad from a industrial diesel would be better.I have this rad from a Detroit Diesel out back.I'd have to change the inlets to 3"

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20077-rad.jpg)

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20078-rad.jpg)
 

Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on May 22, 2007, 11:17:51 pm
    During the day I listen to talk radio. My ear protectors have an AM/FM radio and listening helps keep my mine occupied! This afternoon the local station (Orlando) was discussing gas prices and they  had a gentleman from Ala. on. He was talking about his truck that he had modified to run on wood. Turns out that he has a home made sawmill and he burns his scrap wood in a burner that is in his truck bed. He said that the oven heats to about 2000 degrees and the smoke is consumed/ converted in the process so that no smoke is exhausted. When the show host asked him if anyone could do this the fella said, "Nope!". He elaberated that you have to "be the kind of person that never goes to an auto mechanic, has experience with wood stoves,..., and it helps if you know something about making corn whiskey! ";D I wish that I could remember his name, he'd be a natural for the forum. How 'bout you Bama boys, anyone know him?
 
   By the way, he says he can run 80 miles an hour and gets 3,000miles/cord! :)

Mark

The man is Wayne Keith from Springville Alabama and he would indeed be a natural for the forum.I was introduced to him through Mike LaRosa from WI who is another woodgas driver.
After pineywoods mentioned the garbage can for a filter housing,I remembered the pics I'd seen of Wayne's truck so I e-mailed him and asked permission to post his pics here on the forum.
As well as getting permission,he sent a whole whack of pics of his two woodgas trucks and some of his homestead and sawmill.

Here are a few to start

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-wayne-j.jpg)

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-wayne.jpg)

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-wayne-b.jpg)

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-wayne-e.jpg) 

and,my favourite.......sorting out the junkmail  :D

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-wayne-a.jpg)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: TexasTimbers on May 23, 2007, 10:03:49 am
:D :D :D 8) 8) 8)

I need a junkmails sorter that doubles as a motive system for my truck like Wayne has and you are building. ;)

Paul I am still amazed at your tenacity, perseverance, and resourcefulness. Can't wait to see a video of it running! 8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on May 23, 2007, 10:41:53 pm
Thanks Kevin,the hard part of this project is knowing when to put the welder and torches away and do things around the house that need doing like the lawn,and other Honeydoos If I could,I'd be out there every day working on it.  ;)

Here are some other pics of Waynes newer woodgas truck.He's made the unit a lot more subtle.The side racks are the gas cooling system.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-wayne-g.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-wayne-f.jpg)

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-wayne-h.jpg)

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-wayne-k.jpg)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on May 23, 2007, 10:46:28 pm
Oh yeah,here is a link to a website in Sweden.They seem to be having a lot of fun,wish I was there.

Vedbil Link (http://www.vedbil.se/indexe.shtml)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Dave Shepard on June 01, 2007, 03:26:22 pm
This has been a great thread! Thanks to everyone who has contributed to it, especially Pual H. ;) I don't think I'd want to make a woodgas truck, but the thought of making a generator to run the barn on would work pretty slick I would think. The light bill chews up the better part of a $1000 every month.

Tesla: smiley_thumbsup
Edison: smiley_thumbsdown

Tesla may have been eccentric, but he was the real deal when it comes to brilliance. Thomas A.(adequate) Edison wasn't as impressive as he would have liked everyone to think he was. "I have not failed, I have merely found 10,000 wrong ways to do something." -Edison. I think this sums him up nicely.
Tesla did many things that scientists can't replicate today, including running electric motors with no apparent mechanical connection, to anything! I am not surprised that the Wardenclyff Tower didn't take off, after all, who is going to make money off of free electricity for everyone?


Dave
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Tom on June 04, 2007, 02:21:56 pm
I'm wondering if the tubing on the livestock trailer is a contraption to catch the fuel from the methane generator that he has inside of it. :D

And....  can you store woodgas or do you have to burn a load of wood to go to the store?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: ellmoe on June 04, 2007, 06:00:14 pm
Paul,

   I havn't looked in at this thread in a long time :-[, thanks for tracing Wayne down, the photos are "way cool"! I'm looking forward to seeing a picture of you tooling down the road in your "wood burning truck".
Mark
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on June 04, 2007, 11:35:05 pm
Paul,

   I havn't looked in at this thread in a long time

But see what you started with a few seeds?  ;)

Tom,
I have read talk about storage tanks but I have never seen documentation.My understanding is, it is a "producer gas" that is produced on demand from the engine or blower.
I think they have bladder tanks for methane though.

Here is a link to those three Swedes but this time they did it in English for their International fans.I think that is pretty DanG decent of them.

Link til vedbil (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG8iR5DRLpw&NR=1)

I painted up the gasifier last week with heat paint but it's pretty well done so it's time to work on the cooler

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20079-opt.jpg)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: OneWithWood on June 06, 2007, 10:00:31 am
so it's time to work on the cooler

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20079-opt.jpg)

I usually start 'working on the cooler' around noon  :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on June 06, 2007, 11:05:57 am
and producing gas in no time at all,eh? ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: OneWithWood on June 06, 2007, 12:01:15 pm
 :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: olyman on June 07, 2007, 02:51:51 pm
I'm wondering if the tubing on the livestock trailer is a contraption to catch the fuel from the methane generator that he has inside of it. :D

And....  can you store woodgas or do you have to burn a load of wood to go to the store?
  methane gas is storable in a large rubber bladder--but dont know the characteristics of wood gas---as some gases are a bit corrosive--to diff things-------------even in vapor form--and then dont know if the woodgas stays gas---or goes liquid???? if so--truck wouldnt run well on liquid----
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on June 08, 2007, 12:04:31 pm
Fascinating Paul, and progress is outstanding..  8)

I bought the mother earth plans some time ago, and can't wait to get started on a unit. The only vehicle I have now that would be suitable is a 1971 International Scount 4WD with the little 314 V8. No room for a gasser, but maybe one could be built on a trailer to tow?

Move from rig to rig, or sawmill to generator? That would be nice.....  :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on June 18, 2007, 11:32:12 pm
I had been scratching my head trying to come up with a gas cooler.The cooler shown in the pic below uses water but that would cause freezing issues.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-filter.jpg)

So I adapted another Mother Earth News design....

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-filter-b.jpg)

and came up with this,made from a 100# Propane tank

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20081-opt.jpg)

I filled the tank with water to get rid of any residual Propane and then cut the top off with the torch

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20082-opt.jpg)

Next move,because the weather turned cold and rainy was to move into the kitchen and draw up a template for the end plates.Once done,I clamped two 24" square 1/4" plate together and laid the template over and center punched the 23 holes and then drilled them out to 1" on the drill press

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20083-opt.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20084-opt.jpg)

The tubes are 3/4" EMT cut into 24" lengths.The ends were dipped in muriatic acid to disolve the Galvanizing(is that right?  ??? ) where the welds will be.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20085-opt.jpg)

These next two pics were taken through one of the holes in the endplates,Digital cameras are cool :)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20086-opt.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20087-opt.jpg)

I screwed up when I welded some of the tubes.The EMT is thinwalled and I had the setting on the Mig too high,It should have been cooler with a slower feed speed but it wasn't so I ended up with weeping when I filled the tank with water.
I ended up brazing the the leaks.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20088-opt.jpg)

Last one here for now shows the top welded on.The opening is 10" and will have a lid in the same fashion as the Gasifier and it will allow access for rodding out any build up in the tubes.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas%20089-opt.jpg)

Still have another day or two on the cooler to finish and hook it to the gasifier with a proper companion flange and condensate trap built into the 3 1/2" tube.



Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on June 19, 2007, 01:06:50 am
That looks good Paul.  I'm soakin' up your idea here whilst eatin' my Kentucky Fried Chicken dinner..  ;D

The digital shots are cool looking up the tank..  8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on June 19, 2007, 08:30:50 am

   8) Lookin Good. I can almost smell the smoke.  8) ;D ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on June 19, 2007, 10:03:38 am

 I can almost smell the smoke. 

Harold,
That's something like my dad used to say when I told him I'd been thinkin  :D

JP

I get a craving for KFC twice a year but now a seed has been planted so I predict some take out in the near future  :)

Quote
I bought the mother earth plans some time ago, and can't wait to get started on a unit. The only vehicle I have now that would be suitable is a 1971 International Scount 4WD with the little 314 V8. No room for a gasser, but maybe one could be built on a trailer to tow?


The trailer is a good way if you want to switch between vehicles but the engines must be similar in size.
For instance,my gasser is built for a 302 so it should be adequate for your engine,a 314 but too small for a 350.

I saw a photo of a trailer setup where they used 2" clear suction hose from a fire pump from the back of the car to the engine.I would think a camlock coupler would seal well enough too (?)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on June 19, 2007, 10:30:08 am
Paul I blame it on TV,.

I haven't watched it for 8 years, and now I'm down in Sacramento doing a remolding job, watching TV and the commercials corrupt me..  ;D

But I gotts to say that KFC was screamin' off the plate it was so good.  No more trans hydrogenated fat oils too..  8) ;D ;D :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on June 30, 2007, 10:54:50 pm
I've had a few days off so it's been a good opportunity to get some work done on the cooler.The weather has been wet and soggy and the mosquitoes have been having a field day on anything warm blooded and breathing but a little bug dope on the face,ears and arms keeps me somewhat sane. :)

We loaded the cooler and gasifier into the box and set them where they'll stay.I was pleased to see that there was still a full 5 1/2 feet of box to spare in the back of the truck.I'll try to mount the filter housing between the gasifier and the cooler to leave the rearview mirror unobstructed.

I added a companion flange on the 3 1/2" pipe  between the cooler and gasifier to make service or replacement on the two units simpler and easier.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-cooler%20001-opt.jpg)

The 2" pipe coupler in the bottom left is the gas outlet and the 1 1/2" nipple in the middle,bottom is the outlet for the condensate,which will be piped to a refitted 20# propane tank as a holding tank with a drain valve.

The 4" cap on the right is the cleanout port and the two 1 1/2" nipples on the left(welding ground in bottom nipple) are the coolant ports.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-cooler%20003-opt.jpg)

The lid allows access to the 23 heat exchanger tubes for rodding when things get too sooty.The lid const is the same as on the gasifier.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-cooler%20004-opt.jpg)

The vertical  3 1/2" pipe will be fitted with a blower which will mimic the suction of the engine to start the gasifier up without drawing the really dirty gas that comes with a cold start,through the cooler,filter and engine.

The blower is 120 VAC and the motor is separate from the gas.I'd love to have a DC blower but haven't been able to find such an animal.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-cooler.jpg)

After the pics were taken,Tom helped me disconnect the cooler and set it on the ground so I could finish welding the pipes.

Clean up and paint for the cooler is next and then the filter system will probably be next.



Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on July 01, 2007, 05:19:37 am
Can't wait to see her blow some smoke.  ;D 8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on July 02, 2007, 09:09:49 pm
THis is truly exciting.  Are we sic or what?..  :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on July 02, 2007, 10:53:57 pm
I know that I'm hooked  ;D

Nothing got done yesterday because July 1st is Canada day and our youngest girls rode their bikes in the parade then we went to the rec grounds and had a good visit with friends and nieghbours.Came home,napped,ate and then went back to hear some local bands and visit some more.Fireworks at 10 pm and then home by 11:30.

Today was finicky work cutting,grinding and drilling out a bunch of brackets to secure the gasifier and the cooler.Not much to show but it's necessary and now it's at least done.Tom or Jodi will sand and prep the cooler for paint while I'm at work and hopefully I can paint tomorrow night.



Here is a cool video of an old truck and gasifier from the 1940's

http://www.youtube.com/v/hSgL0Ie4zrI

Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: OneWithWood on July 03, 2007, 08:24:34 am
Too cool vid  8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on July 03, 2007, 10:01:53 am
Oh my lord.  I want to fly over there right now and talk him into selling me that truck..  ;D

Is that a cooling/holding tank for the woodgas on the front bumper?

I have got to build one of those someday soon.  Maybe a GM 4x4 since I/m a GM guy..  8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on September 05, 2007, 12:40:28 am
It's been a long Summer and I haven't had a chance to doo too much more on the truck until yesterday because I had been slacking on my responsibilities around the house,like firewood,lawn etc but now we're good to go!

I had been dreading and looking forward to doing the dual carb setup for the truck.Dreading because my knowledge of any auto carb other than the single bbl Rochesters on my old trucks is nil but after pouring over the MEN plans and scrounging at the wrecker I was ready.

The carb on the 302 is a 2 bbl Motorcraft and I was hoping to be able to modify it but the carb was too small to accept a 1 1/2" pipe so I decided on the 4bbl Quadrajet from a GMC pickup at the wrecker.It would require an adaptor and I was happy to see all I needed was in the steel scap pile out back.


(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/dualcarb.jpg)



I cut a 1.5" band from the 6" pipe and sandwiched it between the plates traced and cut from the 2bbl and the 4bbl,using the gaskets as templates and then welded it all up.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/dualcarb-adapter.jpg)

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/dualcarb-adaptor-a.jpg)


The carb will be a dual fuel carb,the primary side will run as normal on gasoline when needed for starting,or a boost under heavy load and the secondary side will deliver the woodgas to the engine.
The woodgas and gasoline throttle linkages will be independent and the choke flap on the woodgas side will become an air/fuel meter.


The parts that get removed are, the entire secondary linkage unit (and choke rod) . . . both secondary main discharge nozzles, main well air bleed tubes, and accelerator tubes (center: top and bottom) . . . the secondary metering rods, their two-part lever, and a mounting screw and hinge pin (middle center) . . . the secondary bore baffle . . . and a 1-1/2""-diameter section of the main body's rear wall. [14] With the air horn inverted, remove the brass air bleed and accelerator tubes from both sides of the secondary circuit.

The 6 holes from the nozzles and tubes were filled and sealed with a pliable epoxy(gas tank repair)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/dualcarb-d.jpg)


 and then the main body was set in the drill press vise and using a 1-1/2"" hole saw with a 1/4"" pilot bit, carefully drilled into the rear wall of the carburetor's main body until the saw penetrated the divider between the two rear barrels to a depth of one inch.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/dualcarb-a.jpg)

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/dualcarb-b.jpg)

Then the 1.5" brass pipe was fit,marked and cut some more with tin snips and finally riveted and epoxyed befor reassembing the whole shebang

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/dualcarb-c.jpg)

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/dualcarb-e.jpg)

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/dualcarb-f.jpg)


After I took the last pic here,I noticed some parts behind the cardboard.It was the float assembly ::)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on September 05, 2007, 12:45:35 am
WOo Hoo Paul..  8)

Looks real good.   Even a cleaner job then MEN plans.  I can't wait to see that baby purr..  ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Mike_Barcaskey on September 05, 2007, 08:16:31 am
amazing work there, thanks for sharing

"After I took the last pic here,I noticed some parts behind the cardboard.It was the float assembly"
what did Aldo Leopold say? Something to the effect of "The most important part of intelligent tinkering is saving all the pieces"
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on September 06, 2007, 02:37:41 pm
Thanks,and now I'll share an amazing amount of stupidity :-X :-\ ::)

Yesterday I mounted the carb on the engine and hooked everything up including the throttle linkage and wiring and then started the engine.It ran for a few seconds and quit so I kept turning it over but it wouldn't go.I looked under the hood and saw gasoline pouring out the top of the carb and realised the float wasn't working properly.

I took the carb apart on the bench and saw that the needle was off to the side of the seat even though I had set it in place so I set it all back up  but by then it was too dark to work outside.
This morning I set the carb on top of the manifold but didn't bolt it down,then I hooked the gas line up.I debated on whether to disconnect the coil wire but decided it was okay to leave it connected.I turned the engine over and the gas poured out of the carb again and enough drained out to start the engine long enough for it to backfire out the manifold.

Poof! It was flame on under the hood and I took my shirt of and tried to smother the flames but there was too much as well as the shirt made a great wick for the gasoline.I ran to my truck and grabbed another work shirt and threw it on top of the flames to but it wasn't enough so I ran to the Motorhome and grabbed a fire extinguisher.It was discharged and useless and the flames were thoroughly enjoying the two cotton shirts I fed them so I ran across the yard and turned on the garden hose(praying outloud the whole time)

Thankfully I had layed out the 100' of garden hose to the truck yesterday to fill the cooler so it was right there.I sprayed down the top of the engine and soaked the shirts and the flames died down and finally quit.........for a few seconds and then....POOF :o ::)
That happened twice more because the shirt was still smouldering down by the exhaust manifold but finally all was quiet.

I had visions of losing the truck,gasifier and who knows what else.I had the heavy shirts even though the weather is warm because of the bloody mosquitoes this year.


Once everything cooled down,I unhooked the carb and got the numbers off of it to order a rebuild kit and I'm taking it to a good mechanic I know that lives up the valley and he'll go over it with me while I rebuild it.

While I wait for parts,there are some little things that I can do to get the gasifier ready to hook up.The 2" suction hose that will deliver the woodgas from the gasifier to the carb should be here by Saturday and I'm hoping that inside of two weeks I'll have the engine running on woodgas.

Boy oh boy am I thankfull! Still stupid mind you but thankfull just the same ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on September 06, 2007, 03:26:03 pm

 Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

  Nothing like a little excitement to keep the blood flowing. EH ???  :D
 :D :D :D 
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on September 06, 2007, 04:05:43 pm
Yessir the blood was pumping pretty good for sure and the sinuses opened up quite nicely too.I had always pictures that the fire would burn inside the gasifier not under the hood ::)

I need to do some more coagitatin :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: farmerdoug on September 06, 2007, 04:25:19 pm
Paul,

Looks great, except the fire. ::)

I am wondering if you could change out the 120V blower for a vehicle heater blower motor.  They are 12V.

Farmerdoug
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on September 06, 2007, 04:27:24 pm
I remember when I was 10 years old and poured gas into a running push lawn mower. It was hard to start when shut off as I recall. Well now I had a flaming lawn mower.  ;D fire_smiley
Grabbed the fire extinguisher out of the shed and had her out. Yup the extinguisher was charged. ;)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on September 06, 2007, 10:17:57 pm
I've done that with a Rochester..  :D  I was able to smother it with the first shirt though.  ;D

Probably a good idea to have an experienced guy work over the tricky Q-jet.  The butterfly (throttle plate) shaft bushings always leak and wear (suck air at the side entrance to the case) so have him check that whilst he's at it.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on September 07, 2007, 06:23:29 am
Looks like he had to seek a coadjutor, while he's cogitating.  ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: GF on September 07, 2007, 04:57:20 pm
Years ago I worked putting on propane systems on pickups, the company I worked created a propane dominator carburator and had it patented.  The process was that is had an aluminum plate about 2" think that went under the carburator, it was machined out to match the holes in four barrel carburators.  A brass pipe with holes went from front to back we called it a spray bar.  There was a valve on the back and one on the front for the propane to enter, these valves then had adjustable linkages that connected to the ping outside the carburator where the primary and secondarys were. 

This allowed the existing throttle linkage that power the carb with gas to also power when on propane, it was very simple and worked great.  When you put your foot down and opened up the secondarys the back valve opened and dumped more propane in.  I think this same item could be used for wood gas real easy, thought about it many of times.  For some reason the company quit doing these systems and went on to other things, I know they still have alot of these parts around since they were mass machined.

Gary
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on September 08, 2007, 01:36:01 am
Gary,

I went googling for the dominator carb and found some info but none related to the linkage.It sounds interesting and I would be interested in any info you can find.
Mother Earth news built a dual linkage for woodgas and gasoline too but it was complicated(but apparently worked well) so they set up a motorcycle type on the steering column.
Others have rigged up a second pedal on the left hand side.I haven't decided which way to go yet.

farmerdoug,


I think the 12vdc heater motor may be under powered and this blower has a cooling fan for the motor too which may be a good thing because it'll get pretty hot for 5 minutes or so when the gasifier heats up.I read where some guys were running 110 vac with a inverter but the type needed to run this blower are expensive.(?)

While the carb was getting rebuilt today,I worked on getting the blower mounted and wired.I wasn't sure how to hook the blower itself to the pipe but it turned out that with a bit of messing around,I could thread a 2" pipe nipple iinto the fan housing and then tack weld and silicone it.
To start the gasifier,the gate valve is opened and the blower plugged in  for a few minutes and then the gate valve is closed and the engine is ready to start.I had read that having the blower before the cooler and filter saves them from clogging with dirty gas.

The tank between the gasifier and gas cooler is the filter canister,built from a 18" HW tank with the same lid const as the others.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-blower.jpg)

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-blower-a.jpg)

The gas comes in the bottom pipe and passes up through black fibreglass filter cloth,up through a 1/3 of a bale of loose straw and finally through another layer of filter cloth and then piped out from the tank to the carb.
There is a condensate drain in the bottom of the tank.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-filter-truck.jpg)

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-filter-straw.jpg)

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-filter-truck-a.jpg)

I got the carb back this afternoon and hooked it all back up and ran the engine on gasoline,just have to work on the idle a bit.
Tomorrow,I'm hoping the 2" hose arrives on the bus and I can finish hooking the unit up completely.If not,I have to make some charcol and finish sealing the lids.


Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on September 08, 2007, 09:05:26 am
How many watts is that blower motor Paul?  Shouldn't need to big of an inverter.
All depends on the start up surge too which can be as much as 50 percent. Square wave
inverters are pretty darn cheap nowadays.

DanG I wish I had time to build one of these gassers right now. That unit looks outstanding..  8)

Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on September 09, 2007, 12:15:48 am
Today was a little frustrating because I was expecting to have the 2"suction hose arrive on the bus by today but a call to the depot made me a little suspicious so I called the Princess Auto store in Langley and they told me they would try to ship it out today sometime  ???
I had that issue with their shipping dept before and the store manager told me to let him know if it ever happened again so when I asked for him,people started hopping.I had ordered the hose on Tuesday morning and was assured they had it in stock and would be sent out by Wednesday at the latest.I really like Princess Auto,I think it is great for tinkerers and farmer/fabricator types like us and I hate complaining but the upshot is that I have no suction hose  :-\

Because I couldn't source any charcoal locally,I decided to cook some up as I worked on the truck today.I cut up some chunks of Birch endcuts left over from a floor I did for a customer in the spring and put them in a 25 gallon barrel that had a lid and lock ring.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-birch-charcoal-a.jpg)

I had cut a hole in the lid and screwed in a 3/4" nipple to let the smoke and water vapour out and once the smoke built up some pressure and turned white,I got a chunk of heater hose and set it against the nipple and routed the gas down to the flames.
It lit on fire and came out as a blow torch but then the hose filled with brown condensate and it slowed the flow.When I tipped the hose to let the condensate out,I was surprised at how much formed in the short time .

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-birch-charcoal-b.jpg)

After several hours,when the smoke from the barrel slowed way down, I removed the barrel and let it cool and finally opened it up for a look.
Most all of it is charcoal with the exception of a few pieces but all in all I'm pleased with the results.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-birch-charcoal.jpg)

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-birch-charcoal-c.jpg)

The charcoal will be the first added to the gasifier,followed by a 6" layer of domino sized chips and finally dry chunks around 1x3x4

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-birch-dominoes.jpg)

I was hoping to maybe get the gasifier lit this weekend but it's looking like I'll have to wait a few more days till the hose comes but it'll be a good thing to do some tweaking and tuning in the mean time.

jpgreen,

I forgot to look at the specs on the blower,I'll check tomorrow,it would be good to know if an inverter would work.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on September 09, 2007, 01:28:06 am
That's a neat way to make charcoal. It is really amazing the flame off of the smoke like that, which is after all what the whole concept is about.

That wood looks like pine?

Get me the wattage or amps on that unit Paul and I'll track down an inverter.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on September 09, 2007, 08:25:06 pm
Nice looking batch of charcoal. Someday I gotta tinker about and make some. Now if I only had an old fuel barrel or 2.  Should be easy enough for a non tinkering feller like myself to figure out. There have been enough threads on making it. ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: GF on September 09, 2007, 10:01:58 pm
I did a rough drawing on the carburator, not good at using paint to draw with but I hope it helps out.  Using something like this would require to put a fuel solenoid in right before the gasoline carb.  This way you can flip a switch inside and you run on gasoline flip another and your running on woodgas, mush like using propane.  The picture of the inside valve body is what the valve looked like when machined out to allow the flow of the woodgas.  The linkages will connect to the existing carburator throttle body.  This way the woodgas valves are opened and closed using the existing throttle body of the gas carburator.  This system would require no major mods to the gas carb itself.  I am going to see if I can ahold of one.  One thing on the drawin that is not correct that I just remembered is where the linkage attaches to the carburator, it needs a lever also just like the one on the valve itself the linkage connects to lever on the valve and the lever on the carburator.  The adjustable linkage is used to set the woodgas fuel input for idling.  The linkage on secondary valve is used to adjust the woodgas fuel input when the secondary's are used.  Sorry for the poor drawing hopefully this helps picture what I'm trying to describe.

Gary

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11029/carb1.jpg)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on September 10, 2007, 10:45:09 pm
When Tom came home from work today,I enlisted him to give me a hand.I don't have throttle or choke/air-fuel cables so I had to operate the carb while Tom started the engine.We ran it on gasoline for awhile but it wouldn't run on woodgas only and I was getting a little discouraged and thought maybe the spark advance was too far out.
Then I looked down the carb and saw that the linkage wasn't letting the woodgas butterflys open at all so I did some bending with a screw driver and we tried it again.

What you see here is Tom operating the carb while I record with the video camera.It was running 100% woodgas.

 
8) 8) 8)

I still need to hook the carb up to the control cables and have the spark advance a little more so it runs smoother.

The exhaust smells like wood :)



http://www.youtube.com/v/gSifqTsde40
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: sawguy21 on September 10, 2007, 10:55:05 pm
 8) 8) Congratulations, betcha can't get the grin off your face.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on September 10, 2007, 10:58:18 pm
I'm a little punchy  :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: beenthere on September 10, 2007, 11:00:29 pm
That be fantastic. Great to hear it running....Good on ya,  eh eh

Real nice to have that captured on video, and for all of us to hear it run.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: TexasTimbers on September 10, 2007, 11:17:15 pm
Yes is sounds great. No one appreciates a Don Garlitz rumble anymore than me but those are the prettiest welds I have ever laid eyes on and I am not kidding because they are harnessing that rumble!  8) 8) 8)

Hey if you stuff honey locust in her will the fumes smell like honey ???
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on September 10, 2007, 11:55:05 pm
WoooHoooo....  8)

Congratulations are in order..  :)  How are you going to filter your oil?  I planned to run 2- Frantz toilet paper element filters in line via bypass.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on September 11, 2007, 12:00:33 am

 How are you going to filter your oil?  I planned to run 2- Frantz toilet paper element filters in line via bypass.


JP,

what oil did you mean,or were you refering to filtering the gas?
As far as I know,the motor oil should be okay with the standard filter.


Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on September 11, 2007, 05:50:17 am
Chitty Chitty Bang Bang  8)
[/size]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0K3wQMWqZKI


 ;D Sweet
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Norm on September 11, 2007, 07:44:35 am
Cool!

Wish I could of been there to give you a big pat on the back. :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on September 11, 2007, 08:17:47 am


   8) 8) 8)  Wooooo  Hoooooo,  EH ???  :D :D :D :D :D

  Another Frankenmonster is alive  8) 8) 8)

  Knew DanG well you would get it perfected.

  How many miles to the cord ya gonna get  ??? ::) ::) :D :D :D

  Congratulations Paul.  8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on September 11, 2007, 11:14:13 am
Paul the way I understand it from reading in on the experts from time to time is the wood gas system is very hard on engine oil.  So much so that it will take out an engine much, much faster than running on gas with tars and other impurities.  So one solution is to run the Frantz bypass filtration system via toilet paper element.

You can find out more about this on    gasification@listserv.repp.org and the Fluidine website:
http://www.fluidynenz.250x.com/


 How are you going to filter your oil?  I planned to run 2- Frantz toilet paper element filters in line via bypass.


JP,

what oil did you mean,or were you refering to filtering the gas?
As far as I know,the motor oil should be okay with the standard filter.



Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: OneWithWood on September 11, 2007, 11:22:48 am
Way to go, Paul  8) 8) 8) 8)

Can't wait to see the video of you toolin' down the road in it  :) move_it
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Stump Jumper on September 11, 2007, 01:41:02 pm
sweet  8) almost ready to take your wife out on the town in that fine ford  ;)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: sprucebunny on September 11, 2007, 03:27:59 pm
Congratulations, Paul !

 8) 8) 8)

I'm very impressed !
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: GF on September 11, 2007, 09:41:07 pm
Cool video, and cool wood gas truck, make sure you stop by here on your tour with it, I want to get a close look at it.  Nothing is more gratifying than when something you build comes together.  Congrats are in order. 

Gary
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on September 11, 2007, 11:09:53 pm
Thank you all for the encouragement,advice and prodding,it helped along the way and it held me accountable when I wanted to slack off. :)
I still have a ways to go before driving it but work is slow right now so I'll make the best of it.The woodgas throttle is hooked to the gas pedal right now and the air/fuel flap is connected properly to a control cable in the cab so I will try to fire it back up tomorrow morning and let it run an hour or so.

Maybe even move it across the yard. :)


Here is another video from the Swedes driving an old Forson on woodgas


http://www.youtube.com/v/xF_zFimqTXw


Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Archive retrieving test bunny on October 18, 2007, 02:44:51 pm
The Forestry Forum CRASH OF 2007 ARCHIVES
General Forestry => Alternative Methods and Solutions => Topic started by: Jeff on September 16, 2007, 05:10:50 PM


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Title: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: Jeff on September 16, 2007, 05:10:50 PM
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This is a thread I want to see here. One of the first things of hundreds I have thought of that we dont have at the moment. Also the Bio-Mizer thread. and on and on.  The photo thing will be another thing to tackle.

Paul, tell me the truck is still in yer yard eh?


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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: Paul_H on September 16, 2007, 05:19:44 PM
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Yep,I had it running again Thurday for over an hour on 100% woodgas,I even moved it a few feet.I am in the process of connecting control cableschoke on the primary gasoline side and air/fuel flap and idle cable on the woodgas side so everything can be contolled from the cab.

I was crawling around the engine Friday but when I tried to start the engine on gasoline yesterday,it wouldn't quite go.The plugs are clean but the spark is really weak.When I had the engine fire last week,the wires to the coil got burned a little.
There is lots of gasoline at the carb and compression seems to be okay(according to my thumb test)  ::)


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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: sawdust on September 16, 2007, 07:51:59 PM
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Evening Paul, I did not really follow this thread last trip around   "BC" Before Crash!

I have an old R130 International Harvester Truck that only makes 5 mpg with a 212 cid motor.
might be perfect for converting. So, did you start out with a particular book on converting?

I remember hearing my Grandmother talking about the guy nextdoor during the war, his taxi ran on smoke. They were Danish, I gather smoke was big there.

sawdust



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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: farmerdoug on September 16, 2007, 08:52:58 PM
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Paul,  I wonder what they would think of your truck at the US/Canadian border?  When you leave Michigan you would have throw out your extra fuel. :D

Farmerdoug


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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: Paul_H on September 16, 2007, 08:58:04 PM
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farmerdoug,

is that on account of the EAB or do they need the firewood? It reminds me of the guy pulled over by the police and asked if he has any booze.

He tells the cop to stop mooching and buy his own :)


Sawdust,

I started out with a design that was known to work.Mothewr Earth news designed and built a gasifier and drove it coast to coast with no major problems.The plans were $15 and they included 3 poster sized pages of drawings,diagrams,photos and instructions as well as an updated booklet with plans for building dual fuel carbs.
I haven't seen any other set of plans for a gasifier that is even close to being as comprehensive and put in laymens for the backyard tinkerer as these are.What I didn't understand,I asked about here on the forum and received excellent help.

There is a 30% power loss with woodgas so a larger engine for the cornbinder might be a good move.Jeff Davis built a system to drive a IH truck back in the early 1980's

Here are a couple links to the story of the MEN gasifier

Mother Earth News (http://www.motherearthnews.com/Homesteading-and-Self-Reliance/1981-05-01/Mothers-Woodburning-Truck.aspx)

and a link to order the plans

MEN plans (http://www.motherearthshopping.com/detail.aspx?ItemNumber=762)

here are some photos of the construction of my MEN gasifier on Yahoo.You may have to sign up.

Photos (http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/WoodGas/photos/browse/b4e7)


Here is a You Tube of the truck finally up and running on 100% woodgas.



http://www.youtube.com/v/gSifqTsde40






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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: jpgreen on September 18, 2007, 12:20:05 AM
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I've got a 1970 binder scout that I think will be my first gasser.  It's got the little V8 314 I believe industrail engine- posi all around, and 4 on the floor..  8)

I've got the engine out, heads rebuilt, and gonna put a ring and bearing kit. Probably install a receiver hitch and make a platform off of that for the woodgas.


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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: MikeH on September 18, 2007, 10:05:09 PM
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 O.K.   so what is woodgas?


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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: sawdust on September 18, 2007, 11:04:38 PM
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My nontechnical knowledge of this. Heating (in this case) wood to a temperature that causes the wood to decompose into gas. This gas then can be drawn into an engine cylinder with sufficient oxygen and ignited. The gas is mostly carbon monoxide a bit of methane. If you search wood gasification there are some excellent resources.

I have some really technical books that I don't understand all that well!

sawdust


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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: Jeff on September 25, 2007, 06:35:49 PM
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Paul, I'll see what I can do about coding back in a way for YOUTube videos to work within the forum. Not sure how to do it yet as this software code is quite different then the old.


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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: Jeff on September 25, 2007, 07:49:44 PM
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You Tube Video of Pauls Truck Test
http://www.youtube.com/v/gSifqTsde40


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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: jokers on September 30, 2007, 08:04:45 AM
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Quote from: farmerdoug on September 16, 2007, 08:52:58 PM
Paul,  I wonder what they would think of your truck at the US/Canadian border?  When you leave Michigan you would have throw out your extra fuel. :D

Farmerdoug

Only if his extra fuel had any bark on it.


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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: Roxie on September 30, 2007, 08:40:37 AM
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That is awesome!   Wow!   :o


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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: Noble on September 30, 2007, 10:56:38 AM
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That Paul is really something 8) 8) 8)  For some of the newer members that are just getting acquainted with Paul,  his posts on remodling his house and dressing up for work are worth reading ;D ;D  I'm gonna look them up again when they are available.

Paul,  your neighbors and I are really curious as to what your next project will be.  They may be a little nervous too :D :D :D


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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: SwampDonkey on September 30, 2007, 11:15:08 AM
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We'll have her all back in time. We've got good men working on it.  ;D

Paul's just like an artist surrounding himself, or isolating himself, however you view it, with all that wide open space and scenery. Gives him inspiration to dream and get down to it, to make things happen as he envisions it, or at least give it a try. All the while making a living in the woods, and such, like a good many others.

I don't hardly know Paul, but that's my take on him.  ;D

Most of that stuff he's posted and tried to explain, I ain't even got a clue.  :D :D


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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: sawdust on September 30, 2007, 11:17:03 AM
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Noble, You will have to add some pause and inflection to these words....

Mornin Paul,,,, whatcha building?,,, oh ,,,why?

 :D :D :D

sawdust

 
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Archive retrieving test bunny on October 18, 2007, 02:48:22 pm
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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: Norm on September 30, 2007, 12:19:44 PM
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Quote from: Noble on September 30, 2007, 10:56:38 AM
Paul,  your neighbors and I are really curious as to what your next project will be.  They may be a little nervous too :D :D :D


Especially if they've got some cast iron frying pans. ;D


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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: Furby on September 30, 2007, 12:37:47 PM
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Here ya go Noble! :)



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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: Paul_H on October 12, 2007, 09:34:37 PM
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I insured the truck for 3 days and took it for a spin out on the road.My truck is high geared so I have to take a little run at the incline to the road.I was a little nervouse because there are narrow shoulders and deep ditches for the most part around here so there isn't a lot of room to pull over if there is a failure. roll_eyes





http://www.youtube.com/v/6hcThg51bng




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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: Mooseherder on October 12, 2007, 09:40:23 PM
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Too DanG Cool! ;)



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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: Paul_H on October 12, 2007, 09:41:52 PM
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Here's another on that Carla filmed in the Industrial park near us.It's a good spot to test because the traffic is light and anything goes  8)

Yes,she realises her windshield needs cleaning ;D

http://www.youtube.com/v/ZNMQ62qbT7g


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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: TexasTimbers on October 12, 2007, 09:48:38 PM
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I love it!  8) 8) 8)

In the second video she hardly keep up with you!  And on that last turn I heard her make a little sound of exasperation . . . "Uh!" when she though you were going to keep going I think.  :D

Too cool. Man that truck is just way to cool!!!


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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: Furby on October 12, 2007, 09:49:29 PM
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 :D :D :D :D :D
 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

Way to go! 8)


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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: Paul_H on October 12, 2007, 09:58:01 PM
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Quote from: TexasTimbers on October 12, 2007, 09:48:38 PM
And on that last turn I heard her make a little sound of exasperation . . . "Uh!" when she though you were going to keep going I think.  :D



That's exactly what happened  :D 8)




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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on October 12, 2007, 10:44:47 PM
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 Can't view the video's, but, LOOKS GOOD. Congrats, Paul  8) 8)


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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: SwampDonkey on October 13, 2007, 04:50:19 AM
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Looks like some good fun. I couldn't view the video, but I can just imagine.  ;D


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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: Norm on October 13, 2007, 09:02:03 AM
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Cool!

Way to go Paul. :)


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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: TRanger on October 13, 2007, 09:36:49 AM
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Makes a whole new meaning to "go out and warm up the truck".


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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: Don P on October 13, 2007, 01:08:26 PM
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Waaay Cool !!  8) 8)

It was worth the wait for the video just so I could play it back for the wife  :D. Is there any way to save those? I saw there were several others that looked interesting.

When are you starting production  ???.


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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: beenthere on October 13, 2007, 01:24:28 PM
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Don P
I just add them to my favorites (Ms IE).  They save that way.

I'd like to bug Paul H to take the camera with him on a drive, and then we could hear the truck run, and his commentary goin down the road...accelerating, and getting excited.   :D :D

(I'm sure by now he has taken care of the windshield for his wife.. :) ;D )


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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: Paul_H on October 13, 2007, 11:44:57 PM
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I wish you guys lived a little closer 8)

I cut up a bunch of dry 1x2 Birch stickers into 3" lengths today for the gasifier.The stickers have been stacked under cover of the mill shed from a floor we milled a year and a half ago.

I put on 20 kilometres(12 miles) on the highway North of me and it climbed the hills pretty well.There is a 30% power loss with woodgas and it is noticable but the 302 has power enough for putting around here.My top speed was 45 mph,not because of powering out with the engine but on account of a haywire frontend on the truck.
I described the symptoms to Marcel at the Pig roast and he figures the tie rod ends have had the biscuit.When cornering,it wants to break free and it's a bit of work to bring it back into line.Almost takes the fun out of it. ???

It'll go into the shop this week while I'm at work and get sorted out because I want to drive it a few more times before snowfall.

Beenthere,

I'll plan on getting somebody to ride along with the camera as soon as possible.We had no babysitter today or else Carla would have been game :)

The gasifier runs much better on Birch that it does on Douglas Fir.

Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Archive retrieving test bunny on October 18, 2007, 02:50:35 pm


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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: stonebroke on October 14, 2007, 02:58:16 AM
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Has anybody ever built a woodgas electrical generator or is it not practical?

Stonebroke


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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: TexasTimbers on October 14, 2007, 01:16:35 PM
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i don't know but notable accomplishments like Pauls often start with a question like you have proffered. I imagine him seeing one for the first time and saying "Hmm. Why can't I build one of those?"

Well you have taken the first step stonebroke. Keep us posted on your progress.  :)
Quote from: Paul_H on October 13, 2007, 11:44:57 PM
I wish you guys lived a little closer 8)

We ain't gonna move north of the Red River but a visit might be in ordr after we move into the house. I am beginning to plot a getaway to the NW with some heavy cargo. That way you would get a log worth putting on that MD. If I shipp it, it's gotta be small.

I have to break it to the boss at the right time. She loves to travel but it's a 4 day drive I think. She might balk unless I planned out some nice stops alomg the way. I bet I can sell it to her. I am liking the idea pretty good.
I bet you didn't think your passing comment would have such an effect on anyone eh?   :)

But two conditions. We get a ride in the truck and you can't use the osage for fuel!  :D


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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: Roy M on October 14, 2007, 01:37:01 PM
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 8) 8) That is way too much fun. Looking really good Paul.Did you get brave enough to try the hill out of Mt Currie? ;)


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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: Paul_H on October 14, 2007, 01:48:21 PM
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stonebroke,

Mother Earth News built a woodgas system for electrical power generation in the early 1980's.The problem with stationary units is the fuel can bridge and gas production suffers so the rub is designing a shaker to keep the fuel moving.
Greg Manning from Manitoba,Canada is working on a CHP(combined heat and power) for his farm using woodgas.The engine will run the generator and the coolant from the engine will heat his home.Greg is pretty innovative and I don't doubt he'll succeed at it.

He designs and builds his own systems and knows the numbers.

Link (http://www.inetlink.ca/a31ford/cgcmb/)


Kevin,

come on up,there is a place here for the both of you while you stay and there is a resident Texan with a 57 Chevy 4 door with 4wd just down the road if you get homesick . ;)

Roy,

it was the hill towards Anderson Lake not the Joffre switchbacks towards Lillooet although that is my ultimate goal.The little Ford is high geared,even for gasoline so I'd like to change out the gears in the rear end.
The truck has a manual 3 spd with OD with no granny gear like 1st.

Anybody got some ideas?





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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: Roy M on October 14, 2007, 01:59:38 PM
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Is there a tag on the diff indicating the current ratio? With the o.d. it might be 3.23 or 3.36:1. A lot of newer trucks with over drive automatics run 3.55:1 so a recycling yard replacement should be readily available.


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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: Paul_H on October 14, 2007, 02:02:33 PM
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I looked and the tag reads like this,

DM   CJ   8MA

75    9    3 56A


Is that a high geared ratio?I'm not too familiar with diff ratios.


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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: SwampDonkey on October 14, 2007, 02:55:32 PM
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Quote from: Paul_H on October 13, 2007, 11:44:57 PM
I wish you guys lived a little closer 8)



Quote from: TexasTimbers on October 14, 2007, 01:16:35 PM

We ain't gonna move north of the Red River but a visit might be in ordr after we move into the house.



You can go a little ways north then, as it flows into Lake Winnipeg in Manitoba way to the north.


[Tidbit] Interestingly enough the 49th parallel was the dividing line of the red river basin and the border. ;) ;D

Just having some fun.  :)



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Title: Re: Paul's wood burning truck
Post by: olyman on October 14, 2007, 06:10:58 PM
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paul---3.56 gears arent real tall--but a set of 3.73---or 3.92's would do better for you--had a truck i was going to put a posi in--but it was 31--not 28 spline--and lower gears also--and he had a trans just like you--didint take off real quick!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on October 30, 2007, 12:07:49 am
Here is a little recap video I did on Sunday because it was too wet and miserable outside to work on the truck.It was fun putting it together,turn up your volume  :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBL3BMpA6ek



Edit : I changed the video music because of a copyright issue with Johnny Cash's Ring of Fire
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: sawguy21 on October 30, 2007, 09:50:30 am
Something is lost in the translation, all I get is a white square.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Jeff on October 30, 2007, 10:03:45 am
I like it!
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: sawguy21 on October 30, 2007, 10:10:01 am
Now it works, that was good.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: TexasTimbers on October 30, 2007, 10:52:09 am
 8)

I bet Mr. Cash had no idea he wrote that song just for your video. Perfect fit.  :)

Can't wait for part two. Got the music picked out yet?

P.S. I can't believe you were out there in sub-arctic conditions building that thing. You are one tough hombre.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: OneWithWood on October 30, 2007, 12:43:16 pm
Nice work, Paul.

I enjoyed the video very much and the music too  8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: sawguy21 on October 30, 2007, 11:33:44 pm
Kev, if Paul hibernated during the snow season he would not get nearly as much done. :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: farmerdoug on December 08, 2007, 10:18:55 pm
Paul H,

How the truck coming?  Do you have it driving around yet or is it too cold for wood gas up your way this time of year?

Farmerdoug
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on December 09, 2007, 02:52:48 pm
Too cool- Paul and Johnny..  8)

Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: sprucebunny on December 09, 2007, 07:29:42 pm
Great  video, Paul  8)

Thanks !!
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: solidwoods on December 13, 2007, 12:50:09 pm
http://www.gengas.nu/byggbes/index.shtml

int. combustion engine runs a generator = your off the grid with elec. and hot water.
jim
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: twobears on December 15, 2007, 09:57:30 pm

 DEL PATS PAUL ON THE BACK and says "way to gitter done.PAUL:thats one very cool project and you did a great job of building it.

 delbert
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: isawlogs on December 28, 2007, 06:05:07 pm

  Paul , you know I got one of the fastessss  internet connections   Oh , just woke up ..  ::)  I dont go see too many video's cause of the snail connection that I have here , Acftualy a snail is quite fast if compared to my connection ...  :-\
 But for you mon ami , I have made an exeption , I went and took a look at your  you tub adventures ...  8) 8) 8)

   Took over three hours to look at those four video's , but man where they worth it   O0 O0

  I have two more to have a looks see .. gonna wait till tomorow , supose to snow some ,
I got the making of , the test ride in da yard , the sawing of da log , and the on da road test with Carla . Uh !!!!   smiley_wavy smiley_wavy

  Hats off to you , ya did a great job there Paul ..... smiley_clapping smiley_clapping smiley_clapping
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on December 28, 2007, 07:23:04 pm
I to saw the videos a while back when I was over at the marketing board looking up some maps. I took a detour and had a watch. ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: twobears on December 29, 2007, 08:10:10 pm

 my dad has gotten mother earth news for years.over the last few weeks i,ve been looking up there storys on woodgas..so,far i,ve found three diffrent uses.of course they made a woodgas truck.they also powered there sawmill with woodgas and they made a genset.from what i,ve read and seen all three woodgas genarators where made diffrent.
 the issue numbers are 69 for the truck and 78 for the sawmill and 70 for the genset.that would put them in 1981 and 1982.
 i,am thinking a woodgas powered genset would be handy to have around a sawmill.  ;D

 delbert
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on December 30, 2007, 11:20:21 pm
Thanks again for the encouragement and enthusiasum for my woodgas project.

Marcel,I appreciate your patience in downloading the videos.It might be faster next time to fly from Kwebec and come see it in person :D

I've been puttering with the truck the past couple of months when I can but the daylight is short so I couldn't do anything on the truck after work but now we are shutdown for a few weeks,I have got a couple of things done.

The pics below show the 1½" hose delivering the gas to the woodgas side of the carb.I'm going to re-plumb things a bit and add a paper filter inline and also hook up another blower up front so I can start the engine without the need to use gasoline to aid in drawing the initial woodgas(am I clear  ??? )

The following pic shows the gasoline cut off switch that I use after the engine is running on woodgas so that I know it is only woodgas that is fuelling the engine.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas_107-opt.jpg)

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas_107-opt2.jpg)


I added this idle solenoid recently and what it has done is to allow the primary side(gasoline) butterfly to shut off completly at the flick of a switch inside the cab so I won't really need the gasoline shut off valve and I'll have gasoline ready if the gasifier bridges and the engine stalls.It is stock Ford adapted to the Quadrajet.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas_118-opt2.jpg)

A wider view of the carb and throttle hook ups. The woodgas throttle lever in the middle right hand side of the pic allows for a regular pedal linkage as well as another linkage to set the idle with a lever in the cab.I plan on having a aux lever for the gasoline throttle and the normal foot pedal will be for woodgas only(exept in an emergency,then the cable changeover from woodgas to gasoline is a 30 second swap)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas_118-opt.jpg)

Black is the woodgas idle lever,Red is gasoline throttle.There is another dual lever panel that controls woodgas air/gas mixture and the choke for the gasoline side.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgasthrottle.jpg)


I had mentioned before that the Mother earth plans called for a monorator to help remove moisture from the fuel.It works as the wood is warmed and the condensation collects on the cool wall of the feed tank and runs down to a holding tank.This next pic shows the condensate collected from a small load of wood,around 25 lbs after a 12 mile drive.The 25 mile trip I took filled the container shown here to 3/4 full.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/condensate.jpg)


A couple of weeks ago I got a replacement crown and pinion and swapped the gearing from 3 56 to 4 11's and the difference is noticable and I think it'll be way better for the hills around here,so I thank you all again for the help on this because I wasn't familiar with the diff ratios.The swap over went pretty good and all U joints were changed as well.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/rear-diff.jpg)

While waiting on parts,I got the bug to run the truck so wood was cubed and thrown in the gasifier and I ran the truck for 20 minutes or so.The pic below was taken as the gasifier cooked and the engine ran.It felt great to see the snow melt and the steam rise off of the hot gasifier. :)

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/rear-diff-a.jpg)

The steering is haywire on the truck too and when I mentioned this to Marcel at the pig roast last summer,he told me it sounded like it was worn out tie rod ends and I'll be DanGed if he wasn't right. ;)
So I'll change the tie rod out in the next week and hopefully drive it again in the new year







Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Radar67 on March 02, 2008, 01:28:18 am
Paul, how is your truck coming? Have you done any extended time or mileage tests yet?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on March 02, 2008, 11:56:51 am
I gotts repost here, cause I didn't get an email notifcation.  This is my favorite thread..  :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on March 02, 2008, 12:17:05 pm
Radar,

I've tinkered with it some in the Winter when I was off work and changed the rear diffs and the tie rod and drag link.I put a 3 day permit on the truck and drove around town and dropped in on a couple of people that helped out with things.One was Tom, a mechanic that solved my float bowl problem and all he wanted for payment was for me to bring the truck by when it was running on woodgas.He was surprised how "normal" it ran and noticed that the exhaust didn't smell.

Then I drove it up the road a 1/4 mile from there to John the machinist's place.John was the fellow that bent the 16 tubes for the gasifier last year.He came out and had a look and then ran off to the house and came back with a camera and started shooting :)

I also drove up the steepest paved road we have here again and it went much better with the lower geared diffs.There were two problems I had on the drive,

#1 the speedo was off now that the ratio was changed and the odometer was too ,of course.

#2  the truck still steered haywire and I didn't want to drive it very fast.

Can anybody give me a easy math conversion to calculate the speed? The ratio was 3.59 to 1 and now is 4.11 to 1 revoloution(that's my understanding)
So the fastest I drove that day according to the speedo was 70 mph but I figure I was really only doing just over 50-55 mph.

Problem #2 was solved when a young mechanic at work asked if my kingpins were siezing up.The right hand side wouldn't take grease and when I took the caps off,they were packed with hard grease.I cleaned them,Rust Reapered them and applied heat and finally forced grease to the top and bottom!!

Yesterday I hooked up the hoses from the valve covers that were slobbering oil all over the engine and adapted the air cleaner to fit again and today I plan to hook up the tachometer so I can keep as close to 2500 rpm as possible which is what the gasifier was designed for.

Another job out of the way was installing the hardware cloth/screen between the feedtank and the monorator to keep the sawdust and chunks out of the catch basin for the condensate.Now I should be able to easily dump 3, 40 lb sacks of fuel into the feed tank which should last(rough guess)75-85 miles.

The chunks in the bottom are about ¾ of a sack of fuel.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/monorator-screen.jpg)


I cleaned the ash out of the bottom of the gasifier and with a Pink handled mirror borrowed from my daughter,I took a picture of the hearth in through the 4" port.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/hearth-ash.jpg)

This was the mirror pic looking at the hearth grate(frying pans)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/hearth%7E0.jpg)

If all goes well,I'll put some more miles on this week.I appreciate any help with the speedometer conversion :)

Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Jeff on March 02, 2008, 12:36:28 pm
I think the easiest conversion Paul is another vehicle leading you and you both have cell phones.  :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Corley5 on March 02, 2008, 12:41:54 pm
You should be able to get the correct speedometer gear for the new ratio at an auto parts store.  That's quite a system you've built  :) :) :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on March 02, 2008, 12:47:07 pm
I subtracted 3.59 from 4.11 and ended up with .79 and then multiplied my speed (70 mph) by .79 and got somewhere around 55 mph but I think that was not the correct way to convert.

My math class had windows and I was easily distracted  ;)

Greg,

the tranny in the truck is a light one.Reverse is towards the driver and up,like a gravel truck and then there are 3 speeds and a OD,someone suggested that it was a car transmission and I might have trouble finding a speedo gear for the 4 11.

When I get back this afternoon I'll crawl under and take a pic where the cable meets the transmission.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on March 02, 2008, 01:09:27 pm
My math class had windows and I was easily distracted  ;)

Greg,


Oh lordy so did mine and even had girls in thar too..  ;D

The new automobile world conversations are goining to go like...

"So, how many miles per cord are you gettin'?"  .  . ..... :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Timburr on March 02, 2008, 01:55:54 pm
Paul, here's your ratio conversion formula:-

Current ratio  x 100%  = 1/4.11  x 100 % =          0.2433  x 100% =  86.62%         
Original ratio              1/3.56                        0.2809

So your final mph is 70 x 86.62% = 60.63mph.

Have you installed the lower diff. ratio because of the extra weight of the gasifier or the lower BMEP (less power) of woodgas, or both?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on March 02, 2008, 02:15:53 pm
Gear Design Equations and Formulas Calculator (http://www.ajdesigner.com/phpgear/gear_equation_tire_diameter.php)


Timburr got to it before me.  Just a simple x  =  1
                                                       3.59  4.11
                                                        x    = 0.8735 works. ;D

or

3.59-4.11 + 1  = 0.8735
    4.11
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on March 02, 2008, 04:13:58 pm


Thank you for the conversions,Gentlemen 8)




Have you installed the lower diff. ratio because of the extra weight of the gasifier or the lower BMEP (less power) of woodgas, or both?


Timburr,

The truck was too high geared for the hills here even with gasoline but yes,it was the lower power of woodgas that caused me to change gearing.
When I chose the truck to convert,I was still in the dark regarding woodgas.It would be great to have another gear between 2nd and 3rd on this truck but we'll make do.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: twobears on March 03, 2008, 01:04:52 pm

 PAUL:over the winter i have done alot of websufing on woodgas.one thing i found was that adding steam to the woodgas gives it more power.some woodgas gen,s are setup with a steam generator.it was just a tank that had hot coolant lines ran thur it or it was hooked to the side of the woodgas generator then,a line was ran into the woodgas gen just like the airlines.i also found one woodgas generator that used the monorator water to make steam.the water boiled away and left just the solids.the tank had a cleanout on it to get the solids out.if you use that water to make steam you have alot less waste to get rid of.
 just thought i,de pass that on.

 delbert
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on March 03, 2008, 01:26:36 pm
Hi Delbert,

I've heard if the steam injection too but my understanding of it was that it applied more to coal or charcoal systems although Wayne Keith from Alabama(mentioned in this thread) injects water in his stratified downdraft system.

From what I've read,there is already more than enough moisture in the wood,even at a low MC of 10% to produce Hydrogen and the rest is condensate.If the wood MC is to high,it lowers the temp in the gasifier and the result is tar production whereas Charcoal needs the addition of water.
It might be worth messing with sometime though,I could rig up a nozzle through the lighting port.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Corley5 on March 03, 2008, 07:28:40 pm
the tranny in the truck is a light one.Reverse is towards the driver and up,like a gravel truck and then there are 3 speeds and a OD,someone suggested that it was a car transmission and I might have trouble finding a speedo gear for the 4 11.

When I get back this afternoon I'll crawl under and take a pic where the cable meets the transmission.

It'd be worth a visit to your local auto parts store or an IM to Burlkraft  ;)  I bet Eggiman's could set you up with the right gear  8) 8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: pineywoods on March 03, 2008, 07:57:08 pm
Paul, got a couple questions

From the sound of the truck on the video, I assume it's a  V8.. which one, 302???
Reason I ask, I have in storage a 1976 ford with the 300 big six that I would love to convert to wood gas, should work out pretty close to yours. Even has 3.59 gears.
Carb would obviously be different.
What was your reasoning for picking the up-draft system as opposed to the down draft ?
Downdraft looks simpler to build, but I know looks can be deceiving.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on March 03, 2008, 08:48:46 pm
pineywoods,

yes,the engine in my truck is a 302 and my gasifier is sized to run your 300 too.In my plans there is a few pages on converting a 2 bbl Ford/Autolite Motorcraft 5200 which might be small for your engine or you could go with a Quadrajet and make a adapter plate.

My gasifier is a Downdraft Imbert style which has a closed lid and the air is delivered with nozzles  It is the style that was used in Europe during the war.

Imbert (http://www.fao.org/docrep/t0512e/T0512e0c.htm)



The Statified Downdraft that you see in FEMA was built for emergencies out of materials that are readily available using simple tools but they tend to produce a lot of tar and the fire isn't always easy to control.

Stratified downdraft (http://www.gengas.nu/byggbes/ix.shtml)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on March 03, 2008, 09:43:08 pm
An inline 6 would be a great conversion because you would have the inherent torque of the inline configuration..  :P
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: dundee on March 06, 2008, 05:48:08 pm
With kyoto/carbon tax/ carbon foot prints, and all of the other lingo about global warming in our faces, this link of a wood fueld truck would be of interest to Paul H., ( and others I am guessing

Richard

www.sfws.auburn.edu/south/woodtruck.pdf
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on March 06, 2008, 07:29:15 pm
 Richard,

Wayne Keith,featured in that article lives in Springville Alabama and drives mostly with woodgas.He's a down to earth man but he's not afraid to speak at seminars around the country.The pic below was taken in Wisconsin last year when he drove from the Gulf of Mexico to Wisconsin and back on woodgas only and spoke at a conference (in WI).

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/wayne-keith.jpg)

The man I bought my old Ford from,was a New Zealander and he told me that after the War,NZ had real petrol shortages until the late 1950's and it was common to see woodgas and charcoal generators on the automobiles there(he is in his early 80's now)
Have you ever seen gasifiers from that era in your country?

Today I was out driving with a friend of mine and we had the truck up to around 85 mph(the gauge goes to 80 mph) which converts to 73 mph using Timburr's formula to convert the gear ratio change.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: ohsoloco on March 06, 2008, 07:41:12 pm
So what about all of us not gifted with major mechanical abilities  ???  The only way I'd ever have a wood burning truck would be to buy one  :-\
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on March 06, 2008, 07:49:52 pm
There is this,by Jim Mason in San Francisco and there are are a couple others out there that are working on user freindly systems.Chips and augers,infared and computers will help the process along eventually.

Here is the link to Jim Mason's creation GEK (http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/masongek)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: dundee on March 06, 2008, 07:53:51 pm
Paul, No I have not seen any gasifiers where I am, but the interest is definatley here, if I see or here I will post on the Forum

Richard
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: pineywoods on March 08, 2008, 10:34:38 am
Paul I went back and re-read this entire thread plus all the links you posted. Quite an education.  thanks. Based on what I learned, I'd probably go the same way you did, even though it is much more difficult to fabricate.  For starters, I'd like to build a smaller one tailored to run a welder/genset with a 25 hp onan. The ford truck is still a possibility. But first, I gotta finish up all the mods I have in the works for the woodmizer ;D
Thanks again for a very informative thread.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on March 08, 2008, 12:21:58 pm
You're welcome pineywoods,

It's been enjoyable researching,building and learning as we go along and I've tried to post as many links and photos as I can to make it easier for someone else to build one and also as notes that I can refer to for my next one.
My memory is flawed I found out here just the other day.I had posted the gear ratio in my truck as 3.56 and somehow in my mind it became 3.59,so I'm glad for this thread and go back through it once in awhile as an easy way to check data.

For an engine like the 25 hp Onan,a better way to go might be a charcoal gasifier.They seem to be a good way to go for smaller engines.The only problem might be getting access to good charcoal.If you want to go that way,I could probably find more info from a guy on my gasification list that has built and ran some if you're interested.


Here is a pic of a charcoal(or coal?) gasifier on a Motorcycle.I have more info on it somewhere,I'll look when I get home tonight.


(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/charcoal-bike.jpg)

Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on March 09, 2008, 09:09:59 pm
Today was the first time out with the truck on "official business"  ;).
My daughter had a birthday party to attend and we opted for the woodgas mode of transportation.She was enthusiastic about it all.

When we arrived at the party and I dropped her off,I gave a ride to another child's mother who has been following my project since the beginning.She is a high school teacher and asked me to speak to her grade 10 class sometime in April and let them look the system over.

The pics below are getting ready to head out.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-birthdaytrip-a.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-birthdaytrip.jpg)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on March 09, 2008, 09:13:23 pm

 2nd photo is PRICELESS.  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

  Good on ya, Paul. Love it when the kids think yer smart, after all, EH 
:D :D :D  8) 8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on March 09, 2008, 09:22:36 pm
Harold,


Yeah,she's a sweetie.As we drove she was craning her neck to look in the back :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on March 09, 2008, 10:12:26 pm

 Perzacktically, how does the truck handle idling ??  Is there excessive build up and choking down of the engine, at first take off, from a signal light ??

  I know it's a smoky gas, but, doesn't it create tars when the heat is down, at idling ??
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on March 09, 2008, 10:56:03 pm
Harold,

I doesn't like to idle too long and I notice if it's too long,maybe 10 minutes,it'll be sluggish when taking off from park to highway speed.I have to get used to reving the engine a little before taking off to let the gas "catch up" if you will.

The gasifier I built was designed to run at around 23- 2500 rpm so I would suppose idling below that could cause some tar.I set the idle with this Black lever and try to keep it up around 1500.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgasthrottle.jpg)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on March 16, 2008, 10:59:43 pm
Sunday is getting to be the day to drive the woodgas truck and visit.

Last Sunday when I picked up my daughter from the birthday party,the grandfather of the birthday boy came out with a camera and asked if I was driving the biofuelled truck and did I mind if he took some pictures.I told him to go right ahead.
I collected my daughter and we walked back out to the truck and talked to Blaine,who was taking pictures.He was asking some really indepth questions and I realised he had a background in biofuels and was familiar with the process.

We looked the system over and then I took him for a ride in the truck up the valley a few miles and then returned back to his family's home.He was surprised how it travelled along at a good clip.
When I dropped him off,he gave me his card and I saw that he was from Sustainable Development Technology Canada and deals with renewable energy and industrial utilization.
SDTC link (http://www.sdtc.ca)

Today,Carla and I took the truck and went out for a visit 25 miles North of here to Bruce and Celine's farm.We met them a couple of years ago when Bruce called to ask if I was interested in milling some Birch logs from their farm and making them a T&G floor for their log cabin.Carla and I liked them right away,they are hardworking people and are fixing up the homestead that originally belonged to Bruce's Grandfather.
They began to drop of 5 or 6 logs at a time whenever they came to town and a pile of logs began to grow out at the mill.I milled them up with the mobile dimension saw into cant's and then ran them through the resaw.Bruce gave me a hand to resaw and load the kiln.The whole process took a year and a half before I got around to straightline ripping and planing because I was working full time logging and was trying to build a gasifier in my spare time   :D

Celine has been the one who has layed the floor down at the house and has taken her time to sort through the boards and make a pattern with the white and chocolate coloured wood.They have a total of 1300 sq ft of flooring to lay down


 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/birch-floor-c.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/birch-floor-a.jpg)

Bruce built this Birch grate in the corner to let the warm air come up into the kitchen from the woodstove below.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/birch-floor-grate.jpg)

After wandering around the property we had some fresh muffins and hot coffee and a good visit.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/birch-floor-d.jpg)

When it was time to go,Celine brought me a big box of Birch cutoffs from the floor to throw in the gasifier to help us get home :)

Bruce by the truck and Carla and Celine in the background.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/birch-floor.jpg)

The gasifier,still warm, fired up easily and we headed for home.The cool thing is,the wood we drove up there on was cut from the slabwood and cutoffs produced from milling and trimming their flooring before they got it.

A total of 50+ miles on the old truck today 8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on March 16, 2008, 11:14:15 pm
I'm in awe of you Paul..   ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on March 16, 2008, 11:19:57 pm
Don't be Pat,nobody around here is :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on March 17, 2008, 06:39:20 am
Pretty Dang cool stuff. That birch sure is versatile.  ;D

I like working with birch, I think it is very stable wood when put into flooring or other projects.  8) My experience is with yellow birch, but the grain looks the same as other native birch.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Norm on March 17, 2008, 07:13:16 am
Don't be Pat,nobody around here is :D

I don't believe that for one second. :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: thecfarm on March 17, 2008, 07:49:24 am
Very interesting thread.Keep the stories coming and the pictures.I don't have enough smarts to do it,but glad you do.A very good job you have done.   8)   8)    8)    Need a slap on the back smiley.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on March 17, 2008, 08:57:11 am

 I second Norm's comment.  8) ;D ;D
Title: Wood gas to run generator?
Post by: jmsiowa on March 18, 2008, 05:13:55 pm
Has anyone thought of using wood gas to power a medium sized generator.  From what I've read, each system likes to run at a  constant speed such as a gen would want to do. ???

Just trying to think outside the box ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on March 18, 2008, 07:21:44 pm
Don't be Pat,nobody around here is :D

I was just kidding around and thinking about all the things that I haven't done around the house and yard while this thing was being built and the late night and early morning grinding and hammering my good neighbours have endured ;)

jmsiowa,

good question and welcome to the forum.A stationary gasifier running a generator is like the holy grail of woodgas.There are problems with the stationary units because of fuel bridging,where a vehicle doesn't have those issues because of the bumps,jars and turns that come with driving down the highways.
There have been attempts at grate shakers but success seems to be hit and miss.

I know that Greg manning in Manitoba has had some encouraging results with his system,It runs on woodchips and it is a combined heat and power (CHP) unit.The gasifier runs the internal combustion engine which drives a generator to produce electricity and the coolant from the engine is circulated through a heat exchanger to heat his home and shop.
I posted a link a few pages back but I'll fetch it again.


Greg's site (http://www.inetlink.ca/a31ford/cgcmb/)

Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: arojay on April 04, 2008, 11:35:53 pm
About 20 years ago when I was in the drilling business, I was hanging around the docks in Prince Rupert, waiting for a barge load of equipment to arrive from a job, when I ran into a guy who was building a wood gasifier power plant.  I believe this fellow was chief mechanic for Trans Provincial Airways.  He had a shop rented on the docks and was building the unit right there.  He gave me a tour and showed me scads of information that he had on gasifiers going back to WW II in Finland, when gasifiers were used to power cars, trucks and other applications(like the motorcycle).  Well, I have to say that I found it interesting, but I was a little sceptical.  If you remember, that was around the time of the cold fusion hoax and alternative energy was pretty controversial.  Anyway, years later I saw other references to gasifiers and got interested again.  Your project is great, and may be an example of one of the renewable energy devices that could power us through the future, if environmentalists will let us log to save the planet!  Burn wood... save a caribou.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on April 14, 2008, 12:05:38 am
Arojay,

I remember the cold fusion hoax but it's hard to believe that it is already 20 years ago :-\

I got a call the other day from Werner in Sweden.He builds and drives woodgas vehicles,his Chevy van is woodgas only.He's quite knowledgeable and encouraging to others that are tinkering.He was excited when he called because a couple of people in Vernon BC had contacted him and offered him a job,flight and accomodations included,to build a couple of woodgas vehicles for them in Vernon.
One of the fellows is originally from Sweden too so Werner will be at home.It's about a 5 hour trip from here so I'll plan on heading over to visit and see what he's up too and hopefully they will let him come over to my place for a few days.

I have been driving quite a bit on woodgas but started to notice the condensation was moving up the system and was showing up more in the filter housing and towards the engine instead of at the cooler and finally the engine was struggling for power.It turns out that because I don't have a cyclone between the gasifier and the cooler,and because I neglected to clean out the ash and char every once in awhile,the "pea" sized char starter to build up in the cooler tubes until the 23 tubes were pretty well plugged solid.The engine was struggling to draw gas and the cooler wasn't cooling ???
I rodded out the tubes with a brass rod and cleaned the ash and char out and cleaned the rockwool filter out in the top of the cooler and will make a habit out of cleaning every 100 miles or so(a 10 minute job)

I also added a secondary filter inline,just before the engine to keep the gas even cleaner.I got a GM air cleaner housing from the wrecker and did a little redneck modifying to make sure it didn't suck air.I'm still getting a bit too much moisture for the paper element so I use a fibreglass filter in there now.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/redneck-filter.jpg)

 
(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/redneck-filter-a.jpg)


(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/redneck-filter-b.jpg)



Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on April 14, 2008, 10:11:06 am
Paul- we need an FF logo on that air cleaner..  :D

Far as gasifier powered stationary engines for generators and bridging, I think it would be easy to solve
that problem as skid mounting the units could be done in such a way to give you the right
amount of vibration to keep the bridging from happening I would imagine.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on April 14, 2008, 07:47:34 pm
Pat,

I don't see why that wouldn't work,or even a shaker arm to give it a whack every once in awhile.I know that if I let the truck idle for awhile then jump on the bumper to shake things up,it changes the gas quality and will run a little faster.

Here is a pic I took a month ago of a gas flare directly off of the blower and it's unfiltered and isn't cooled.The Pinkish Purpleish gas and the hint of Blue is a good thing but the Orange is tars and other impurities.The flame would be invisible in daylight.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/flare-opt.jpg)


I've been having a little fun gathering fuel too.We have been doing the Spring pruning on the fruit trees and usually would have a big fire and burn everything but this year I saved the bigger pieces to chop up for the truck.
 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/DSC00578-opt.jpg)


The wood shown here on the chopping block and in the garbage can is a bit of Pear(white wood),a bit of Apple,and a lot of Cherry and Plum.I'm going to call it my "fruit medly blend" ::)
It's all still pretty wet and when I weighed a sack of Plum last week,it was 75 lbs :o
Normally a sack that size of Birch or Douglas Fir would weigh between 40-50 lbs.
 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/DSC00573-opt.jpg)

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/DSC00574-opt.jpg)

I've got a good line on some really dry fir slabs over at the pole yard that have been piled up since last Summer.They are the small edgings but have no bark and are all around 2x2 size which should work out great if I can run them through the chopsaw a few at a time.

Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on April 19, 2008, 12:47:38 am
Here is the link I was looking for to the Mother Earth News article from 1981 where they built a power generation(combined heat & power) plant with woodgasgenerators.
It is four short pages in length and has a image gallery as well.

Link (http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1981-07-01/Mothers-Backyard-Homestead-Utility.aspx)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on April 21, 2008, 11:00:38 pm
Last night Carla cooked up a 14 lb Turkey dinner and invited friends over and we had a good visit.The leftovers were shared and will make sandwiches for a few days.She also boiled up the carcass for soup and saved me the bones, gristle and fat from the roasting pan and I fed it to the woodgas truck this evening.
Me and my son Tom were going for a ride up the meadows road through the farms and we thought it would be good to "put a little Turkey in the tank"


 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/turkeyintank-opt.jpg)

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/turkeyintank-fat.jpg)

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/turkeyintank-b-opt.jpg)

We put on a little over 60 kilometres(40 miles) there and back with no problems and you couldn't smell the Turkey or anything but it was a good way to get rid of the carcass.I was told by other woodgassers that they have poured used motor oil on the wood in the gasifier and it runs good and clean so the fat and bones is not a real stretch.
The Turkey seems to effect the truck somewhat like it does humans because I noticed that after we got home and shut it down,the truck had a quick after dinner smoke and has just sat there and hasn't moved since.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on April 21, 2008, 11:19:36 pm
Rough'n it in the back 40. :D :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Chet on April 21, 2008, 11:45:32 pm
Some day I gotta find enough spare time and build me one of dem.  ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on April 22, 2008, 11:35:57 am
The Turkey seems to effect the truck somewhat like it does humans because I noticed that after we got home and shut it down,the truck had a quick after dinner smoke and has just sat there and hasn't moved since.


...  :D

Paul, I just noticed you have a little Kubota just like mine.  I call mine "Sea Biscuit" or "The Biscuit" for short..  ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Norm on April 22, 2008, 11:50:26 am
I'll bet the neighbors dogs and cats are just a little nervous after seeing that. :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on April 22, 2008, 11:55:16 am
We bought that for the tree nursery to move through the rows because it's only 33" wide.Now it's just a little yard horse that we drag the trailer with and it has a small roto tiller too.The kids pick up prunings and other debris and then they get a ride over to the fire to dump it off and every few trips we take the loooong way around.

We got it cheap because the engine was worn out so I split the tractor in the shop and went to town on rebuilding the little engine.
What do you use yours for?

Norm,

my neighbours already were nervous before that!My dog is oblivious.he overheard me talking to the vet yesterday and thinks I'm taking him in Thursday to be tutored ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on April 22, 2008, 01:20:33 pm
I have a kubota backhoe attachment that came with it and even though it's small, it beats a shovel. It's used pretty much the same as yours now, a yard cleanup vehicle. I've got my ASV track loader to take over all the heavy work.

I wish I had a loader for the Kubota though. I bought it at an estate auction for $1600 bucks. It had been sitting for years, and people thought it was junk.  Brought it home, fueled it up and blead the system and it fired right up.  Been using it  ever since...  ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on April 22, 2008, 01:31:14 pm
(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13183/3biscuit.JPG)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on April 22, 2008, 01:41:14 pm
Cool!
do you have any pics of the backhoe attachment?
I rented this little machine for $15 an hour a couple years ago and dug my utilities trench over to the cabin and did a few other jobs.I thought it worked well.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/paul-concrete-mini-ex.jpg)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on April 25, 2008, 12:05:03 am
I was asked awhile back by a friend of ours to come to the high school and show the truck to her Geography class and give a little talk on the history of woodgas vehicles etc.Nicole is enthusiastic about alternate energy so it would be hard to ever say no.

I started to put together a bit of text to give a little background information on woodgas and an explaination on how it's produced in the gasifier.I wanted some good diagrams too so I talked to Jeff and he was up to the challenge.
I sent him some drawings and pics and quicker than a Cat,he had the first drafts right back at me.I'm wanting these diagrams to keep with me in the truck too because it's so hard to explain to people what is happening inside those tanks in the back and when the gasifier is working,there is no safe way to look down the lid.

Here is the finished diagram of the gasifier that Jeff drew up using real photos of the wood chunks and Charcoal inside the gasifier.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/burner_sm.jpg)

Here is condensor/cooler.


 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/condensor_sm.jpg)

 Any comments on what should be added or changed?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: ronwood on April 25, 2008, 08:28:50 am
Paul,

Could you use your system to power a gas motor on a generator?

I thing the drawings look great.

Ron
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on April 25, 2008, 10:23:09 am
I think so Ron but it would need to have a method of shaking the grate to keep the fuel from bridging.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on April 25, 2008, 10:42:49 am
Paul, I'll have to take a pic of the backhoe sometime.

How well does your truck work on mountain inclines? I'm going to have to build one soon.
Just going to town is a 35 mile round trip, over a mountain pass.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on April 25, 2008, 10:50:52 am


How well does your truck work on mountain inclines?

Think Volkswagen van full of people :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on April 25, 2008, 12:24:43 pm
That's a scary thought Paul...  :D :o :o :o :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Radar67 on April 29, 2008, 03:18:03 pm
Paul, what does the maintenance of your gas gen consist of? How often do you have to clean it out?

I've been reading up on this some and wondering if you have any advice on keeping a good air seal? from the "throat" to the carb? is that correct?

Also, what is your method for getting your wood down to small enough sizes to keep it from bridging?

I keep eyeballing my old S10 with the 305 in it................................
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on April 30, 2008, 09:22:12 pm

I've been reading up on this some and wondering if you have any advice on keeping a good air seal? from the "throat" to the carb? is that correct?



When you say throat,do you mean from the "hearth" inside the gasifier? In my gasifier,the hearth is made up of the frying pans.
If that is what you mean,the only way is to really check your welds and make sure they don't leak.I filled the parts with water to check for weeping and then rewelded.The tough welding was the tanks that had the glass lining bonded to it.The grinder wouldn't touch it and it wouldn't come off with heat but if I could strike an arc,it would weld but there was some tough chipping because the glass made a strong slag.
The piping and hoses are pretty straight forward using clamps and in some cases,silicone.

On the cleaning out,I've giving the woodgasifier two good dungings in around 300 miles.I wouldn't have to do it that often if I had a cyclone which would seperate the larger pieces of charcoal and dust out of the gas stream.I plan on building one soon but am looking for some info or a set of plans.(I have a webpage bookmarked)

The straw wasn't overly dirty when I cleaned the filter so I would think it would go  quite awhile before the straw needs replacing.

According to the plans I got for the gasifier,the chunks should be no bigger than 2x3x4,I try to keep mine 2x2x2 or 1x2x2. I know of two guys that use wood chips.

I think a S10 with a 305 would be a great match of power and weight and would be even better if the engine was high compression.My 302 is worn pretty good and I'd love to fix up the engine but the truck is a rust bucket. :-\

Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Radar67 on April 30, 2008, 09:32:07 pm
Yes, the hearth is what I was thinking.

The 305 in my S10 was bored 30 over when I put it in. It still has pretty good compression considering it has close to 250,000 miles on it. It still has good power, just sucks the gas down. (4 miles to gallon) It has been parked for a while.

I may try to gather some parts and think of it as a winter project this fall.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: pineywoods on April 30, 2008, 10:10:59 pm
Radar67, start collecting discarded water heaters. I already have 3 in my parts pile ;D. All I need to push me past the thinkin stage is somebody close enough to visit with that's building a gasifier.  Got a 76 ford pickup with 300 six in the barn.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Radar67 on April 30, 2008, 10:21:00 pm
I've got one if it isn't too far gone. Found it in my step dad's brush pile.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on April 30, 2008, 10:47:47 pm
Paul, when you talk about the crowded volkzwagon power  ;D, and mountains is it due more to your worn engine, or the gasifier fuel system capability?

I've got my eyes on my 1971 international scout with a newly rebuilt engine.  314 V8 power and a low geared 4x4 light weight rig.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on April 30, 2008, 11:01:49 pm
Jeez Pat,you want your cake and eat it too,eh?  ;)

There is definately a power loss with the woodgas but it's tolerable.I think a high compression engine would make a big difference.

pineywoods and Radar67,

Do you live fairly close together? I'd love to see a couple more woodgassers building some gasifiers 8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Radar67 on May 01, 2008, 12:09:56 am
Paul, we live close enough to help each other....about 220 miles.

One of my concerns is my welding skills...I can melt two pieces of metal together, but it sure ain't perrty. :)

How tough is the carb conversion Paul? My truck currently has a 2 barrel on it, I figure I'll have to change the intake and carb to a 4? Your pictures made it look easy, anything hiding we might need to know about?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on May 01, 2008, 01:10:02 am
Jeez Pat,you want your cake and eat it too,eh?  ;)


Yes. I'm not getting any younger Paul, and you are definitely catching up to me in age..  :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on May 01, 2008, 10:19:06 am
Yes,but don't forget they are metric years where yours are standard.  :P

Radar67,

there are some pro welders on the FF that can give you some tips and then the rest is patience and practice.If you look at some of my welds in the pics,you'll see they aint pretty either.TexasTimbers was kind enough to point that out after watching my first You Tube video  :D

The carb was really pretty easy,the hardest part was to secure the carb in the vise and carefully drill the 1½" hole in the back of it.If you have enough room for a 1½" hole in the secondary half of your 2 BBL carb,you might be able to use it.
I fretted over most all of the building stages of the gasifier but once I was in the middle of it,things generally went well.

The MEN style that I built doesn't need all those tubes.There are other styles that are way easier to make that work just fine but I didn't really discover that until after I was finished and driving awhile.
I'll post this and then go find the link where Johan built a Imbert gasifier designed by Werner from Sweden.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on May 01, 2008, 10:34:38 am
Here is the Web page where Johan build the gasifier over a weekend.I think the outer tank he uses is a propane tank(?) He has some great photos to give you an idea of what is involved.
Johan is one of the three young men that travelled 5200 kms around Sweden last Summer in a woodgas converted Volvo,and then he was asked by National Geographic to go to London and build a gasifier and woodgas system to run a small pickup.
The photos are thumbnails,click on them and they go full size. 

Werner Gasifier (http://www.vedbil.se/dagbok/mera/5e.shtml)

This second link is the main page and it has a lot of great nuggets of knowledge.One of the things you'll find is the conversion of his Diesel tractor to woodgas,after he converted the diesel to a spark ignition.

More wood in the tank (http://www.vedbil.se/dagbok/mera/indexe.shtml)



Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: pineywoods on May 01, 2008, 10:56:06 am
Radar keep in mind that the unit Paul has built would be considered the cadillac of gasifiers. I'm more interested in a model T version ;D Simpler to build but doesn't work quite as well.
 Got a couple more dumb questions. I see 2 items that might cause some problems long-term from the heat. Filler door on the top needs to be reasonably airtight. What did you use for a gasket? The startup fan-finding one that will tolerate the heat might be tough. Would it be feasible to pressurize the air intake instead?
On the carb--I would be inclined to try to use the single barrel on my old ford. The throttle body is a separate piece bolted on the bottom of the carb. An adapter between the two to take the wood gas looks feasible. Lots of these old trucks were converted to propane, that's the way it was usually done.
I found another interesting reference. On www.ahoogah.com (dedicated to model A fords) there's a thread posted by 2 guys from aus. Very vague on details of the gassifier, mounted in the bed of a model A truck, but the carb setup was about as simple as it gets. A 2 inch pipe T with the center connected to the gasifier. One side had a short stub pipe with a butterfly valve in it, serves as choke/mixture control. The other side connected directly to the air intake on a stock ford carb. the model A lends itself well to such a setup, there is a gasoline cut-off valve in the cab, and the main carb jet is also adjustable from the cab.
They claim to have driven all the way across aussie land on scrap wood picked up enroute.

I just happen to have a model A truck ::)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: GF on May 01, 2008, 11:01:46 am
Paul,
     What would you different on the gassifier you built if you had to do another?  I got so many irons in the fire, I need to allocate some time toget me one built.

Gary
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on May 01, 2008, 11:20:40 am
pineywoods,

I've got to head out to the mill in a few minutes so I'll be brief for now but will try to give more details later.

The gasket on the lids of the gasifier and also on the top of the filter housing is the same rope gasket used on woodstove doors.I bought mine at the local hardware.On the filter lid,I smeared high temp silicone into the rope to give a good flexible seal.

On the pressure vs suction,I thinks so but have no experience with it.The fan I used seems to hold up well so far and never has gotten so hot that I can't hold my hand on it.It's only used long enough that the gas will light and then it is shut off.I'll add a link to this post later,showing the fan specs.

On the carb configuration,I think that anything that allowed air/fuel mixing and metering would work fine.I've seen some drawings where they were made out of pipe nipples and homemade butterflys.The type I used is really easy to switch between woodgas and gasoline but it's by no means the only one out there.

As far as mine being the Cadillac,it really isn't and doesn't make any better gas than the one that Johan built although the monorator is good to have and the air preheat is good also but if you look at Johan's flare,it's good gas.It's been cooled and filtered before lighting but it's clean.

GF,

I would have used a larger outside dia tank(22") and only used 7 larger air tubes instead of the 16 smaller ones and I would have taken the time to build a flange so I could split the gasifier for easier access to the hearth and tuyeres.I can still do that but I wish it was already done.
I'm also looking at changing the hearth and adding a small fire tube instead of just the two pans.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: JimMartin9999 on May 26, 2008, 10:33:15 pm
Google :external combustion engines, steam engines, Sterling engines, cyclone engines.
See where that leads you.  You will be amazed.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: firemanpaul on June 02, 2008, 12:21:50 am
Hey Paul, folks,
New to this site, joined as part of my research into building a woodgas vehicle.  A couple questions.  Are you able to maintain 65 mph?  I live in California and to drive slower would be suicide.  Have you ever considered turbocharging?  Since this system requires suction through the gasifier, i would imagine that you would have to pass the woodgas through the compressor side of the turbocharger which raises lots o red flags to me.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Don P on June 02, 2008, 06:49:42 am
One of the reasons for power loss is that with woodgas you are taking a double dose of atmospheric nitrogen, one in "making" the fuel and another with the combustion air, where with gasoline you are only taking nitrogen in with the combustion air. I've read in an older Lindsay publication that supercharging was done in some of the WWII vehicles.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on June 02, 2008, 11:24:03 pm
Welcome to the forum firemanpaul,

My woodgas experience is pretty much limited to my old truck so I might not be much help.My old truck wouldn't be able to maintain 65 mph in hilly country or fighting a strong wind.It does fine around here but our speed limit is 50 and the roads are two lane.
To perform well on woodgas a high compression engine is needed and mine is worn out,I bought the whole DanG truck for $800(tires and battery included)  ;)
I was talking to somebody the other day that was considering building a woodgas system and I said if I did it again with the same size truck,I would want a 351 or a 400 for the extra power.
My generator is heavy too with all the tubes.I think I would go a different route than the cooler/heat exchange I have but I never sat down and figured out the weight differences between the one I have and a simple system of aircooled tubes.

Have you visited the yahoo woodgas site or any others? I've seen turbos dicusses but don't know anybody offhand that is using them.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: firemanpaul on June 03, 2008, 08:02:27 pm
I have not seen the yahoo woodgas site but will look at it pronto, can't be hard to find.  I would appreciate any other links you may have, be it by email, PM on this site or post here. 

I have been thinking about this more.  Another option would be supercharging.  Some superchargers are designed to have the flammable mixtures running through them.  Still considering running the woodgas through the compressor of the turbocharger. 

My normal trip is 50 miles with one hill in the middle, the rest of the trip is basically sea level (I live near Santa Barbara CA).  I have no good route options but by 65 mph speed limit highway.  May build to just get around local and then experiment to get speed up.

If an engine was turbocharged, would you think the gas producer would have to be oversized compared to un un-turbocharged engine?  I'm currently looking at a 350 size motor.

My email is perland@verizon.net
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on June 14, 2008, 08:29:31 pm
A fellow I know named John came by today with a exhaust analyzer and we ran some tests on the woodgas truck.There was no setting for woodgas although we are going to try and get the specs for the analyzer,so we tried these 4 different settings.
I'm thinking town gas is the closest to woodgas but I don't know for sure.

Can anybody here shed some more light on the results?




COKE ]@2500 rpm                        TOWN GAS@2500 rpm

3%   -  O2                                               2.9%   -  O2                     
20% CO2                                     11.1%  -  CO2
5500 ppm CO                                         28-3200 ppm  - CO
86% efficiency                                         72% efficiency


PROPANE@2500 rpm                   COAL@2500 rpm

3%  - O2                                                3.3%  -  O2
11.9% -CO2                         15.4% -CO2
1375-1500 ppm CO                               1600 ppm CO
84% effiency                                           89% effiency
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: TexasTimbers on June 22, 2008, 07:48:11 pm
I  finally got caught up on this thread again. Insipiring is all I can say. :)

But an FYI, when you post numbers like you did here 8 days ago and ask for someone to shed light on them, don't go wondering why there has been no response. We are all still scratching our heads.  smiley_headscratch :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on June 22, 2008, 09:44:57 pm
We are all still scratching our heads.  smiley_headscratch

Then I'm not alone :)

We had a visitor at our place a week or so back from Sweden.Werner came out from Sweden to the Okanagan to build a woodgas system to run a small electrical generation plant for a small farm.He was there working on it for 3 weeks or so and then they drove him down to my place so we could visit with Werner a few days before he flew out for home.

This is a drawing of the system and below it is the partially assembled system.Because it is a stationary system,it is prone to bridging problems and I undrstand that the owners of the new sytem have taken steps to resolve the bridging but won't know for awhile whether it was successfull.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/wernergengas.jpg)

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/wernergengas-a.jpg)

Werner has a website in Swedish and English that has a lot of solid info if studied.He admits his written english is poor but he speaks well and is very focused on things relating to woodgas.

Werner's site (http://www.gengas.se/welcome_to_www_gengas_se.htm)

We went for a drive in the woodgas truck on the day before he left and a good 7 hours after we shut the truck off,Werner told me to see what happens when the woodgas generator's lid is lifted.There was no smoke of any kind and the generator was clear but then he took his lighter and poof,a blue flame popped up and then appeared to fire down quite loudly and then the lid of the cooler beside my feet let a pretty good flame out too.It caught me off guard but it was a good lesson that CO can hang around in the system for a long time and is invisible but deadly in an enclosed space.
The first pic was taken right after he lit the gas and then he began poking a iron rod down through the wood chunks to knock down any bridging.There is a little smoke visable by the lid hinge.


 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/DSC00597-opt.jpg)

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/DSC00600-opt-ff.jpg)

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/DSC00594-opt-ff.jpg)

Werner took video on our drive to town.I couldn't tell when or whether he was filming and it made me uneasy :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV5oiOiuIgA
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: TexasTimbers on June 23, 2008, 11:54:43 am
I don't know why, but when I was reading yesterday (picked up at page 12 I bleieve) I had this image of Werner as an aged old man with white frizzy hair almost like Albert Einstein. He's pretty young really.

I'm glad you got to spend some time with him. Did he offer any mods or potential improvements on your design?

I echo the comment he made toward the end . . . "Runz reely goot!" :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: OneWithWood on June 23, 2008, 12:04:54 pm
Too cool  8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Wilfor on July 16, 2008, 06:48:20 pm
Hi Guys

What a Great Forum . Found it while looking into another way to run  my chevy in the yard . I have a propane system for it that i can put on but this looks way more fun . I started reading this and couldnt stop  and after reading all 17 pages i'm more than a little excited .   Paul your truck looks great  I'd  love to see it in person  once ive read  a whole bunch more and have a whole lot more understanding  of how it all works .  Thanx for all the great links along the way i'm sure it'll take some time to get through them all . 

Now that youve built your system Paul what style would you build next  and what books helped you the most  .

Cant wait to start building a scrap pile in my back yard , my wife is gonna love me


Chris
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on July 16, 2008, 10:16:02 pm
Welcome to the forum Chris.
How are things up at willy's puddle?I havn't been through there for a few years but I like the area.My dad once owned a bit of land at Soda Creek and we would hang out there once in awhile.

Quote
Now that youve built your system Paul what style would you build next  and what books helped you the most 

I'm still undecided which type will be my next.It'll probably be another Imbert but it'll have less air tubes and nozzles(7,maybe) and the unit itself will be a shorter by 12-18" I still plan on adding a cyclone to this unit.

You're welcome to stop by when you're down this way and you can look it over and we'll go for a ride. :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Wilfor on July 18, 2008, 11:17:17 pm
Paul the Puddle is doing good  in the 20 s a little rain here and there just right . Now if i could only catch up at work and enjoy it a little .. . I cant stop reading about this stuff very interesting .. I read all 17 pages here and all the great links are a treat .  Im trying to get a bit of an understanding before i start throwing some steel around . Ive started a list of questions and am tring to see how many i can answer myself as i read along .  I must asy i like this forum all the post are positive and  i'm not used to seeing that .  I have some interesting compressed wood blocks at work that id like to try in one of these .    Well i cant stare at this screen anymore so now that ive got another 20 pages printed   its off to bed ...


Chris
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on August 08, 2008, 12:56:57 pm
I've known for awhile that the system needed a cyclone to separate the char and ash from the gas but was dreading building a cyclone and didn't know how to go about fitting it all together and really didn't want to start hacking away with a torch and cutting wheel  so I lived with things the way they were  ;)
The MEN systen doesn't have a cyclone and I don't even think it was mentioned.I looked around online trying to locate a ready made cyclone to purchase  with no success.When Werner was in Canada,he told me how he builds them out of pipe with no need of a fancy roller.

This link here is to Bill Pentz's website showing the proper way to build a cyclone.

Bill Pentz cyclone plans (http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/CyclonePlan.cfm#AlternativeCyclone)

Because I didn't have a roller but have Attention Deficit disorder,I skimmed Bill's pages and combined his and Werner's together and hoped it would be okay. ::)

First up was drawing a template but because I was cutting it out of a 6" pipe,I made a half template(below) and used it to cut two pieces. The pattern is 6" to 2½" in a 14" cone with the cyclone being 22" in total length(minus dustbin and outlet pipe)

 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/cyclone_temp.jpg)

Forming the cone involved a lot of cold hammering on a little anvil and on the soft ground.Lots of hammering,fitting and tacking,etc.
 


(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/cyclone-cut.jpg)


From Bill Pentz's design,I used his idea to bring the 3½" inlet pipe in at a slight downward angle.Once it was welded together,I was anxious to test it before proceeding so I used some black tape to seal a jar to the bottom as a dustbin and connected up the shopvac hose to the other end with more black tape.

I gathered some typical soot,ash and charcoal that finds it's way to my cooler and tested the cyclone by turning on the shopvac and sucking up the whole mess.The shopvac ran for about 10 seconds while I threw gobs of char into the inlet of the cyclone and I watched the soot,ash and charcoal fall into the jar the same way as sand in a hourglass!! There was no visible soot or charcoal in the shopvac when I opened it up again and I was really encouraged.



 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/cyclone-test.jpg)

 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/cyclone-test-collection.jpg)

The next move was fitting the cyclone between the gasifier and cooler.This shows the pipe with companion flange waiting to fit and tack the cyclone.

 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/cyclone-fitting.jpg)

 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/cyclone-fitting-a.jpg)

And a view from the top looking down to the cone.

 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/cyclone-top.jpg)



Well I was a bit horrified to see you cut holes in perfectly good cast iron frying pans but felt that if I said anything it just might tip you over the edge.  ;D

I was thinking about poor ol' Norm when it came time to build the dustbin.I didn't know what else to use and ended up with a 1 gallon stainless steel Dutch Oven(cheap) with 3 toolbox style latches added to seal and suspend the dustbin.
I tried using a 2½" holesaw to cut the hole in the lid but that didn't work well at all so the hole was drilled with a bunch of small holes around the circle and trimmed with a set of snips.


 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/cyclone-dustbin.jpg)

The lid was fitted to the bottom of the cyclone using a 2" close nipple with nuts on either side, fashioned out of both ends of a 2" pipe coupler.

 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/cyclone-dustbin-lid.jpg)

 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/cyclone-dustbin-lid-a.jpg)

Everything set in place and ready to go.I'll let the high temp silicone set awhile before firing up the truck.

 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/cyclone-dustbin-fit.jpg)

 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/cyclone-finished.jpg)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Radar67 on August 08, 2008, 01:31:41 pm
Paul, did I see a couple of header/exhaust flanges welded in there?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on August 08, 2008, 02:46:03 pm
They are some companion flanges that I cut out of 3/8   plate.I made a little cardboard template last year along with some others and kept them filed away for times like these.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Norm on August 08, 2008, 03:18:30 pm
I was thinking about poor ol' Norm

All I can tell you Paul is that if you come visit I'm checking your bags before you leave.  :D

On a serious note I'm sure impressed with your ingenuity.  :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on August 08, 2008, 03:23:55 pm
Thanks Norm,and it's true that I've been admiring the pot and frying pan in your avatar pic   ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Reddog on August 08, 2008, 06:48:39 pm
I keep waiting to see the wood burner show up at the pig roast.  ;D
You weren't up for a cross country trip?  :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on August 08, 2008, 07:05:38 pm
Wally,

first I'll need you to come out here for a visit and cache some 40 lb sacks of wood chunks every 100 miles or so :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Reddog on August 08, 2008, 07:21:08 pm
 :D :D :D
I can get you covered all the way through MI and WI.
But there isn't much to burn though western MN, ND and eastern MT.  :-\
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: marc_b on September 05, 2008, 10:00:58 pm
hi paul you make a very good job felicitation
I interested about wood gas from a while ...
I build a smaller kit for my mf 65 and I run the tractor about 4h but I have a  lot off work to make a tar filter the tar like glue my engine valve
you have this kind of trouble
merci
marc_b
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on September 05, 2008, 11:13:16 pm
Welcome to the forum marc,

I haven't had any real problems with tar yet although I have seen evidence of it.I read that there is no good way to filter out tar.Are your valves stuck? What type of gasifier did you build? Is it the FEMA style or is it a similar style to what I built with the nozzles?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: marc_b on September 06, 2008, 06:00:45 am
ok paul

my old continental g 176 in my old mf 65 (1958)
have a good rocker and push rod
I glue a 4 valve in 3 time but it is not very hard
to open a replace a push rod and unglue a
valve whit a wd40 and hammer...

my gasifier is a donw draft like a gengas like servtqh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayLoOnTCS8I
i build a smal burner and biger cyclone, tubing cooler
like this but i make some filter and the tar and water
pass trough in shorter time.

I make a compact kit for easy and fast intal and removal.
if you want see my kit i take some picture.

excuse my bad english i am a french quebecois...

merci

marc


Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Reddog on September 06, 2008, 08:38:16 am
Welcome to the Forestry Forum Marc.

Thanks for posting the video.

As for your english, It is much better than my French.

Woodgas burning is and intersting idea for me and I enjoy the diffrent designs.

Wally
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on September 06, 2008, 10:55:15 am
Marc,

You have better fabrication skills than me by a long ways,nice job!The problem I see is that it appears to be a FEMA style "stratified downdraft" and they have a reputation as tar makers.They were designed for emergency situations as in short term use.

Wayne Keith,from Alabama uses a modified FEMA style gasifier but I don't know how to fix the tar problem in those units.Would you consider replacing the gasifier with a Imbert style?
Radar67(Stew) is designing one right now too so we may be able to help with measurements if you go that route.

Here is a link to Johan Linnell's website where he constructs this Imbert gasifier in a weekend.He is using the gasifier on a David Brown tractor and is farming using only woodgas

Link (http://www.vedbil.se/dagbok/mera/5e.shtml)

Paul
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: marc_b on September 06, 2008, 09:59:55 pm
hi gang

this is my small gasifier unit kit
it is build to mount on the left of my old mf 65 tractor
betwen the wheel and close to left of the engine


 I have a eccess of tar in my final gas .

it is work about 4 hour with a one bag of a wood stove perlet.

 is under construction project.

 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/17940/DSCF3170-opt%7E0.jpg)

this is a over view of my gasifier

 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/17940/DSCF3170-lid-opt%7E0.jpg)

this is a open to and easy loding
 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/17940/DSCF3168-opt%7E0.jpg)
this is a cyclone and shaking handle 
 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/17940/DSCF3167-opt%7E0.jpg)
this is my radiator



it is my first prototype


but I have a tar probleme in this system.
the tar pass trought the filter and go to  the engine
it is not good for the engine :)

merci




marc







Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: marc_b on September 06, 2008, 10:05:27 pm
ok merci paul for the vedbil.se link
I read this a lot of time it is very interesting and very
good project builder.

you see my gasifier and my cyclone radiator but the last picture is a
box for make a saw dust filter but it is not instaled in her final place.

the filter is not fontional the tar pass throught ..

merci

marc
 
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: thecfarm on September 07, 2008, 07:23:15 am
marc_b,just so others will know too.Make a "link" to your pictures by clicking on to your profile.Click on to Forum Profile Information.This will make a link so people can look at your gallery.When you post more than one picture in a post hit the enter key a couple times.This will leave some white space between your pictures.Good job on the picture postings.Welcome to the forum too.Glad you can build something like this.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: marc_b on September 12, 2008, 08:51:40 pm
I am in a case study about my wood gas burner

I am think it is posible to modify my down draft burner

to a down draft burner throated tar cracking

and new air inlet whitout a major midification of my condensed

desing and after this modification a use the same wood

and the same condition  for see

the difference between the two system.

i return to you paul whit my result

marc_b






Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on December 23, 2008, 10:29:40 pm
It's been awhile since an update and there have been a few minor changes made to the truck.This update was brought on because of a few emails and a phone call from a man named Ron in Indiana,who is also building a MEN style gasifier.It's great to hear from people like Ron because it encourages me to get back to work on the truck.
His questions about hearth and nozzle sizes caused me to have to think again and do a little math and when I got stumped,I sent a IM to Farmerdoug and he checked my calculations to make sure I wasn't too far out to lunch.

One of the changes made to the woodgas truck back in the Summer was the addition of a secondary fan under the hood.I went with the second fan because I wanted a more powerfull fan to draw the gas through the cooler and filter,right up to the carburator so I could eliminate the need for gasoline to start the engine.

This fan was a combustion air blower from a furnace that had a squirrell cage in it and I mounted it to the fender well and plumbed it to the final woodgas filter housing with a length of 2" ribbed suction hose with camlock couplers and a shut off valve.

 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-starterfan.jpg)

 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-starterfan-a.jpg)

 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-staterfan.jpg)

From the fan,the gas is piped out in front of the radiator and out at the driver's side of the front bumper.I get a little guarded with the gas that comes out of the pipe here because it's cooled and filtered and hard to see but it's deadly carbon monoxide and I'm told it can sneak up on a person.

 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-starterfan-e.jpg)

 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-starterfan-f.jpg)

The fan is powered by this cheap little $40 cdn inverter hooked up to the battery.I took the time to properly mount the inverter and wires to prevent arcs and sparks.It doesn't show in the pic here but there are proper terminals :)

 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-starterfan-g.jpg)

The switches in the cab run the front and rear blower.

 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-starterfan-switch.jpg)


Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on December 23, 2008, 10:59:32 pm
Starting the engine using only woodgas was difficult with the squirrel cage fan because it wouldn't draw enough to make much gas.The engine would start right away but it would "run out of gas" before the engine could draw enough to keep it moving.
That is the way it is with woodgas,if you idle for a long period of time(5-10 minutes) the gasifier "produces" less gas so if I tried to put the truck into gear and take off in a hurry,the truck would be sluggish to start off with but would steadily catch up and the gas would be available for better acceleration.

I looked around for a better fan but couldn't source one online or in any supply catalogues here so the next time we were in the city,I stopped in a vacuum repair store and found a impeller that was the right size.
The fan is backward to the rotation of the fan motor(CW) but it was better.The squirrel cage was removed and the impeller was pressed on.

 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-starterfan-d.jpg)

 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-starterfan-b.jpg)

Although the impeller improved things,it was still took awhile to start the engine so the impeller was removed and I cut some extensions for the fins out of a clear plastic recipe book holder that I didn't think Carla really needed ;D

It was finicky cutting and attaching the fins with epoxy but it was finally done so it was put back together and tested.There was a little noise because a couple fins were sitting proud so I grabbed a bastard file and attempted to remove some material,lathe fashion while the fan spun.
There were bits of busted plastic flying everywhere and 3 fins were ripped off and spat out the blower :D
Had to make and glue up some more fins and try again.

 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-starterfan-c.jpg)


It works much better but there is still a lot of room for improvement.A blower the style of a shopvac or leaf blower would probably work well but the little 400w inverter won't cooperate.
What the stronger fan would do is produce good gas in larger quantities in a shorter time.Right now it takes around 15-20 minutes from lighting the gasifier to starting the engine and driving.The Swedes with their WWII 6 or 12 VDC blowers are able to light and start in 5 minutes.

Anybody have suggestions for a good 12 volt blower? Automobile heater blowers with the squirrel cage fans don't draw enough.


Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: sawdust on December 23, 2008, 11:18:25 pm
this is a WAG. How much air does one of those emission control air pumps move?
Might work?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on December 23, 2008, 11:50:24 pm
Maybe somebody here will know.It's worth looking into maybe?


Lighting the gasifier.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TQnombaS6s
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron57 on December 31, 2008, 09:00:14 am
Hi Everyone  I have started building a wood gas generator the same style as Pauls, thanks for the help. There are a few differences I would like to post a few pics as soon as I figure out how. Still in the 20th century, But not to old to learn a little more I hope. Ha Ha! I need to ask my 9 year old how to do it  ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on December 31, 2008, 02:48:17 pm
Hi Ron,

welcome to the FF,glad you made it here. :)

Have you done anymore work on the woodgas generator since we spoke a week or so back?
Here is a link to posting here on the FF.

Link (http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,23851.0.html)


Paul
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on December 31, 2008, 04:41:00 pm
This here has always been a great thread. Too bad I'm on dial-up.  But, I'm sure we have room for one more wood gas generator. ;D Sure beats all the water vapor in the "weather" thread. :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron57 on January 01, 2009, 05:37:31 pm
Hi The wood gas generator is coming along pretty good,we ran into some problems though. My next one will go twice as fast. The unit ended up over five foot tall thats a foot taller than I was hoping it to end up,but not to bad being the first thing I ever built.We put flanges connecting the upper and lower tanks thats a good idea, but didnt know how towork in the ignition port probbably just weld it into make an air tight seal between the tanks. We also poured 1 1/2 inches of refractory lining in side the fuel tank about 1 1/2 foot up from thje bottom. Next Ineed to build the condensate tank and lid. Have a good day!!
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on January 02, 2009, 09:10:57 pm
Ron,

I used an existing threaded 1" hole that was in the tank for my ignition port and it happened to be at the level of the nozzles,so all that was needed was a corresponding hole in the outer tank to fit the 1" nipple through.
I'm really interested in seeing the refractory lining,I think it will work better than the stainless liner in mine.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron57 on January 04, 2009, 11:43:03 am
 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18539/castable_lining_and_reduction_area.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18539/primary_fuel_tank_bottom.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18539/tapered_edge_on_lining.jpg)
Paul,
Here are some pics of inside steps of my generator so far. Including the refractory lining. I used galvanized sheet metal for the mold, as you can see it moved a little, but it should still do the job. It also added 50# to the weight. Hopefully it pays back with clean gas.
Ron
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on January 04, 2009, 12:40:25 pm

  Just read an article, where, some guys are looking into burning LARGE wood Pellets in their gasifiers ???  Might be a new marketing possibility.  8) ;D ;D ??? ???
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron57 on January 04, 2009, 02:16:15 pm
We have a couple of large pellet mills start up in our area in the last couple years ,along with alot of grade sawmills closing up. Making a shortage of wood fibre for bedding, so the price of sawdust and chips is worth the handling. Here we use most of our fine sawdust for fuel to fire a kiln to heat treat pallets it works pretty good. not as fast and easy as propane but a lot cheeeeper.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: TexasTimbers on January 05, 2009, 05:54:32 pm
Paul,

Might be a dumb question because i do not understand how much heat, and how sustained it needs to be to start the gasifier, but couldn't you install a 12v igniter on your tank so you don't have to cram paper in it? Those things are cheap. Another possibility would be a push button igniter like you can buy at a welding shop. Those onlygive a brief spark so it might not work in your application. But the 12v igniter would glow red hot as long as you needed. It could be manual or you could install a timed one. ???
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron57 on January 07, 2009, 12:04:10 pm
  Got the flaring fan in yesterday ,thinking about test running the unit without the filter just to see what happens 8). What is the best size fuel to run from your experience and moisture content? Since I dont have any charred wood to start with can I use charcoal briquettsin the grate to get things started? Almost ready to go!!
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on January 07, 2009, 12:59:53 pm
Ron,

you can't use charcoal briquettes but you can buy a bag of the real charcoal and that will work fine.Beginning with a layer of charcoal up past the nozzles is very important,otherwise you will make a huge blob of tar that will ruin your engine :-X

On top of the charcoal you should put a few inches of domino sized wood chunks followed by the normal sized chunks which are 2x2x3" or smaller.I try to keep my chunks at 1.5 x2x 2 if I can but it's all by eye anyway.
The book that came with your plans should tell you the proper way but don't scrimp on the charcoal or it'll ruin your day.

This link has some good procedures for lighting the first time.

Link (http://web.telia.com/~u36403194/arkiv/gengas/gengas.htm#handh)

After lighting your gasifier,keep the fan going and let it smoke unit you can smell a distinct creosote smell and then hold a flame up to it and you should see the smoke disappear and notice heat waves.Allow it time to get up to temperature to make clean gas before running your engine.

Are you doing all this outside?

Kevin,

I'll get back to you regarding the electric igniter.I have no experience with them but Vesa Mikkonen's book shows them,I just need to dig it out.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on January 07, 2009, 06:27:52 pm
Kevin,

I found Vesa's book this afternoon and read up about the igniters he has used.
One is simply a wire loop(he says acid proof,I think he means SS ) as a electric element at the nozzle level and the fuel delivery is a squeeze bulb from a outboard motor that sprays a mixture of white gas and turpentine over the heated coil.The turpentine is used to make the white gas a little less volitile.

The other is a pipe near the nozzles that delivers propane.He also metions a deisel cylinder glow plug as a suitable igniter.

Harold,

there are a few people trying regular woodpellets in gasifiers and it sounds like they make gas well enough but there has been problems with moisture in the gasifier after shutdown which turns the pellets to mush and causes problems in relighting.
There are some woodgas guys that share their info openly and there are others that share a bit but omit key info,sort of like the spitefull mother inlaw that gives the recipe for her son's favourite meal to her new daughter inlaw but leaves out a crucial ingredient so it never quite works right for the new wife.
And then there are a couple with extra large egos that lob shots at each other and can't seem to realise some cooperation and glory sharing might help themselves and others.

All in all,the goal seems to be a fuel in pellet or chip form that will make auto feeding viable.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on January 07, 2009, 06:53:31 pm

 Paul, are you saying the gasifier sweats as it cools, and that wets down the pellets ???  I thought the wood, pretty much burns up and turns to ash, after the gasifier is shut down similar to how a modern wood stove smolders. ???
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on January 07, 2009, 07:08:21 pm
Probably a certain amount of water no matter what you burn, whether it comes from free water or bound. As far as the pellets, it's bound water. Oven dry is only in a controlled environment, EMC would be more accurate. I'll be first to admit I don't know anything about the set up of a gasifier and how it deals with water that is burned off the fuel.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on January 07, 2009, 07:55:41 pm
Harold,

The imbert style,like mine is closed and pretty well airtight with the lid closed and the moisture in the feed tank(bunker) runs down the wall and collects in the little holding tank.
When the gasifier cools down and the lid is opened,there is a lot of condensation on the lid and on the walls.The wood chunks are quite dry at this point and even have that "clink" sound when you move them around.
I just went out with the moisture meter and checked the Birch chunks left in there since November and they read 12% MC.The chunks are quite charred even though they are a couple feet above the nozzles.

I guess that is good for woodchunks but not so good for pellets?  :)
I'll hunt through some archives and see if I can find where I heard of the problems with pellets.

Quote
I thought the wood, pretty much burns up and turns to ash, after the gasifier is shut down similar to how a modern wood stove smolders

We have to take care not to completely run out of wood or the charcoal is lost.When the gasifier is shut down,the fire is extinguished and the charred wood and charcoal remains for the next light.
Sort of like keeping a sourdough sponge,I guess. ;)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: TexasTimbers on January 07, 2009, 08:05:16 pm
Ah yes a glo plug would be the cats jammas.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on January 07, 2009, 08:20:29 pm
The Bees knees,too 8)


I went looking for the talk on pellets and found this over on the yahoo woodgas site,

Quote
I learned recently ( FRIENDS DONT LET FRIENDS RUN WOOD PELLETS IN
THEIR wood fueled GASIFIER HAHAHAH)
 what probably happened was after you shut down,the
water
vapor that accumulates in the hopper got to the wood pellets in the
entire fuel load and turned them into a soft guey giant sloppy messy
mess,,,(( been there )),,,and when you fired back up ,,,you were
partially plugged somewhere,,,,,,,that would make a totally unbalanced
reaction area in that thing unti
l it all burned off

Looking in Vesa's book,it was more or less the same issue as well as problems presented by the pellets small size but Harold,mentioned large pellets which might work.I'm sure the pellet problems will eventually be worked out.
Some of the Finns run their cars on peat!
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: TexasTimbers on January 07, 2009, 08:28:37 pm
The Bees knees,too 8)

Man I haven't heard them in a long time.

"I started a joke, which started the whole world crying....."

:)

Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on January 08, 2009, 08:36:03 am

  What's the thinking behind the glow plug ???  I think I have an idea about it, but, not sure ???
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: TexasTimbers on January 08, 2009, 10:30:21 am
The glo plug would be the ignition source, in lieu of cramming the lit page torn out of the Montgomery Ward catalog. ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on January 08, 2009, 10:47:52 am
I don't "cram" the paper,it's placed scientifically  smiley_smug01

There is a little propane torch that is usually used to light the gasifier and some use a wick on the end of a wire that is kept in a kerosene filled tube near the lighting port.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on January 08, 2009, 11:17:03 am

 AHhhhhhhhh. I was thinking to heat the cooler chamber, and help keep the pellets from absorbing the moisture.  ::) ::) ;D ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron57 on January 08, 2009, 03:17:13 pm
  LOL hey thats pretty good!! " Scientifically placing the paper"
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on January 08, 2009, 03:27:52 pm
How is the gasifier coming along? :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron57 on January 08, 2009, 05:20:01 pm
  Hi Paul; the gasifier is almost finished,I was looking for a leaf spring for the lid hold down couldnt find any thing junk so we went to NAPA they wanted $65 for a set of helper springs and I couldnt talk them into splitting the set up.  A neighbor called last night said they had a whole trailer axle I could have its almost to nice to part out electric brakes, hubs, axle and springs all assembled. I put a couple boxes of cant ends in the kiln for three days the MC going in was about 30% ,coming out was 10.% I am wondering if that is to dry to get best gas production any way I cut them into pcs like you discribed.
   I am building the unit in a shop but to run it I  will move it outdoors ,because of the CO dont want to take any risks.Its easy to move just pick it up with the forklift by the flanges but the refractory lining added quite a bit of weight ,almost to heavy to handle by hand. All I got from MEN was building instuctions didnt see any start up directions so I saved that gengas web page link and can still refer to your startup video. I need to put on the lid buy or produce some charcoal, hook up the flaring fan just to test run the gasifier A neighbor is working on the cyclone, I want to build a dry  filter and cooler ,less mess
                                                                                                           Ron
   
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: rowerwet on January 13, 2009, 12:52:52 am
did anyone mention the trabant, there were some powered by a coal fire in the back that produced the gas for the engine in the front. they were east germanys answer to the volkswagon.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: shtickhead on February 28, 2009, 01:48:46 am
[One of the changes made to the woodgas truck back in the Summer was the addition of a secondary fan under the hood.I went with the second fan because I wanted a more powerfull fan to draw the gas through the cooler and filter,right up to the carburator so I could eliminate the need for gasoline to start the engine.



Anybody have suggestions for a good 12 volt blower? Automobile heater blowers with the squirrel cage fans don't draw enough.



[/quote]

 Just a 'shot in the dark'  could a starter motor drive a turbo, say from a diesel motor for this purpose? Maybe to much draw on the battery and starters not good for length of time needed?

Anyone who has built one of these has my respect. I'm good at scrounging materials,finishing projects....
So far I've only read the first 10 and last two pages of the tread so my questions may have been answered already but; given all materials and tools on hand,roughly how many hours would you guess it would take someone with basic metal working skills to cobble/fabricate a unit like this? Also what is the expected life of the unit/burner?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on February 28, 2009, 02:12:03 am
It's hard to call someone shtickhead  :D

shtickhead,

I never kept track of the hours but I have no shop to speak of,just a shed with a work bench by the house and a welder some 800 feet away out at the mill and the truck in the driveway and I seem to spend a lot of time wandering back and forth and between looking for misplaced tools or tools left at the shop when needed at the welder,etc.I couldn't even hazard a guess but I can tell you that a lot of hours after work and on weekends were put into the whole truck but the gasifier was started in January and I think it was done by May and then the cooler was done by June-ish and the summer was hit and miss.Lots of time was spent scrounging parts and in between times was family obligations and social life.

I'm not sure what the burners life span will be althought the unit as a whole should last but metal near the hearth may need to be replaced at some point.

I had read somewhere recently that a turbo isn't so good at drawing air for something like a woodgas system.Jim Mason,who builds and sells the GEK gasifiers has built and sells blowers as a complete set or will sell the fan itself and I remember correctly is a 5 blade radial fan and the blower motor is the type which drives the cooling fans on a automobile radiator.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: bandmiller2 on February 28, 2009, 07:43:17 am
Quickie question,how do you guys with the mobile gas generators get an inspection sticker on your truck,if they have to sniff the exhaust.I can see an inspection station operator getting awfull nervous.Frank C.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on February 28, 2009, 08:06:24 am
I don't think they have mandatory inspections in BC. ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: shtickhead on March 02, 2009, 12:24:30 am
It's hard to call someone shtickhead  :D



 That's just 'cause you don't know me!

Seems like I'd better get the 'you promised me you were going to...' list pared down quite abit before I started on something like this.
 
I was thinking about the bridging problem and wondering if a window sash weight in a piece of bike inner tube ( to muffle the sound) could be rigged up as a pendulum like a grand father clock. You would hand wind the spring so when the motor was idling the weight would bang the side of the burner. 


Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: woodmite pj on March 08, 2009, 11:41:32 pm
Hi  people for gassification go to KnowledgePublications.com with Steve Harris got some of his books there great .
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on March 20, 2009, 04:37:21 pm
There is so much woodgas knowledge out there for free if you look.Of course lot's of the experts that share their info will guard some secrets but the good guys share more than enough to get a gasifier built.

I've posted links all through this thread to some pretty decent guys and here is another person generous with sharing knowledge,Jim Mason from Bereley California.I think I mentioned him to JPGreen awhile back but Jim's been busy so it's time for a update

Here is a truck him and his friends built a couple years ago a little before I finished mine.

 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodtruck.jpg)

and a link to more of the original projects they had done.There are a lot of pics and links if you look through the site.
Woodgas Truck (http://www.whatiamupto.com/gasification/woodgastruck.html)

They've got a place in an industrial park that is built from shipping containers and he's been fortunate to have a good crew around him and they've come up with a lot of interesting changes and concepts like the Escape from Bereley Challenge last Fall.

No fossil fuels were permitted and they had to scavenge or barter their fuel along the way in the 3 day trip from Bereley Ca to Las Vegas NV.

Wayne Keith from Alabama,who was the man that Ellmoe had originally started this thread about,found a sponsor and entered his truck.Wayne drove from Alabama to the east coast,then drove cross country toward Berkeley,entered the race,came in 2nd place and then drove back to Alabama all on wood fuel,only.
The guy that won the race is a writer for Mother Earth News.He had a veggie oil car and he simply bartered t shirts for veggie oil outside of grocery stores.Like a kid outside the liquor store waiting for a boot.Wayne had to scrounge and process wood scraps along the way and was a fairly close 2nd just the same

 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/waynestruck.jpg)

 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/waynestruck-a.jpg)

This was Wayne's first truck.




(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas-wayne-a.jpg)

Jim organised the event and it will be happening again in a few months.

Here is a link to the race last year with some more pics

The Great Race (http://www.escapefromberkeley.com/)


Lately they've been working on a project called the Gasifier Experimenters Kit(GEK)

It's a well designed gasifier in kit form that allows easy adjustments and access to the gasifier to make changes and experiment pretty well as the name implies.

Quote
The Gasifier Experimenters Kit (GEK) offers beginners through experts an easy way build, compare and customize a wide variety of gasifier reactor types and configurations. Whether you're a DIY enthusiast or a university researcher, the GEK will get you over the starting hurdles of biomass gasification, and on to the more rewarding work of refining specific architectures, testing fuels, and making power.




GEK Link (http://www.allpowerlabs.org/gasification/gek/)

I've been impressed with Jim's openess with his knowledge, ideas and experiences and he's made gasification a lot more accessible to schools and researchers that want to study gasification without having to build a gasifier.

Quote
We're also getting a lot of participation from
researchers, with GEKs now in at least five universities around the
world, including: Lambton College, Ontario; University of Alaska;
Aston University, Birmingham, England; University of California,
Merced; Maharashtra Institute of Technology, India.

 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/gek.jpg)


 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/gek-a.jpg)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on March 20, 2009, 04:55:31 pm
That's great stuff Paul.  8)  smiley_clapping
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on March 20, 2009, 06:13:16 pm

 Who'ad a thunk it ???  Burning wood gas in Kalifornicatia  ???

  I used to subscribe to the woodgas yahoo group, but, recently dropped it, because of too many e-mails in the inbox.  ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on March 21, 2009, 10:58:30 am
Thanks for the update Paul .. :)

I'm setting up a machine shop here at the homestead and learning machining to add to my bag of tricks. Woodgas is next on the list.  I've been wanting to give Jim a visit in Berkely.  Drove through twice in the past few months, but didn't have time to stop.

Kalifornication has good wood I'll have you know ... ;D 8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on March 21, 2009, 11:41:23 am
Hi Pat,

good to see you posting,you've been fairly quiet but I knew you were busy.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron57 on April 01, 2009, 01:06:38 am
   I finally got the gasifier on the truck and got some pics posted in my photo gallery. I hope they turned out ok. The gasifier is not hooked to the carb yet that is my next project as soon as it is running my childrens school wants me to bring it up and give a demonstration of wood gas power its going to be interesting.
                                                                            Ron L.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on April 01, 2009, 02:21:30 am
Fantastic! What a great looking woodgas truck  8)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18539/Ford.jpg)

Is your cooler,liquid cooled?

Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on April 01, 2009, 06:37:50 am
That's great Ron. What ya get for mileage? ;D  8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on April 01, 2009, 12:24:09 pm
A PTO wood chunker built by Wayne Keith.It's a short video of some 9 seconds that dial up users may be able to easily watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djaSTzDKb3k&feature=channel_page
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron57 on April 01, 2009, 03:07:13 pm
         Thanks ; Paul have you tried to run chips of any kind they had a discussion on yahoo about the void between fuel pieces being 15 to20% I measured what I was using and it was almost 35% Interesting.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on April 01, 2009, 03:23:25 pm
Ron,

I haven't used chips at all,the blocks are working well but there is some sawdust a.d smaller pieces that mix in with the chucks.My monorator plugged up this year on the side closest to the cab and what I found was when I dump a bag of chunks in the top,the sawdust would screen out into the monorator and block off the condensate from running out so the plan is to begin to screen out the sawdust from the chunks.

How about placing some pics in your post and giving us a description of your system.I really like the styling with the coolers running down the sides of the box.It reminds me of a fire truck.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: beenthere on April 01, 2009, 03:54:12 pm
That wood chunker looks pretty smooth.
Been trying to figure out how he holds onto the pieces when they get a bit shorter... ::) ::)

Maybe a chute would work, that would gravity self-feed the pieces.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on April 01, 2009, 03:56:26 pm
I was wondering that too. :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: isawlogs on April 01, 2009, 06:14:40 pm
Maybe he stops at 30 something inches and cuts it in two for the wood stove in da house.  ;)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on April 02, 2009, 11:26:50 am
Woo hoo on that one Paul .. 8)

Nothing like farm engineering. Now that is a concept that can easily be expanded on without much expense. You could rig up a deck, that used gravity to drop the small diameter stick wood at a good length of your choosing into a shute. Then use a simple hydraulic system to continually push the sticks into that cutter.

Then the cat's meow would be to have a conveyor under to catch the dropped chunks, and send them off to a pile, or truck bed, etc.

I just bought a small conveyor, long enough to load a pickup with firewood for $100 from a surplus dealer.  Things like new with an electric motor on a right angle gear dive.

I'm really excited about that cutter there, as it's the best concept I've seen short of a $20,000 Laimet.  ... 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: ellmoe on May 25, 2009, 07:25:40 am
  Re: Post number 1 on this thread. On the eoad again, the newly rechristened "Termite".
From Fox News.

'Termite' Truck on Cross-Country Journey Burning Wood Chips for Fuel
Saturday, May 23, 2009 


PrintShareThisLEWISTON, Maine  —  A pickup truck that was modified in Alabama to burn wood chips for fuel is headed to Maine with its new owners behind the wheel of the vehicle they call "Termite."

Auburn, Maine, businessman Ford Reiche and his son George left Birmingham, Ala., on Tuesday. The Lewiston Sun Journal says a device in the bed of the truck roasts chips to form a wood gas, which is cooled, filtered and fed into the engine.

Reiche's blog says the truck has a gasoline-powered backup system.

The truck burns one pound of wood for each mile driven, or about 5,000 miles per cord.

Farmer-inventor Wayne Keith has driven 15,000 miles in the vehicle, including a trip from Alabama to California and back last year. He's working on a new prototype of the vehic
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: gengaswerner on September 22, 2009, 04:25:45 pm
Hi every one!
Paul!
Hav`nt seen you at woodgasbuilder in a while now! I hope everything is good with you and  all!

(I read some old posts about me and Pauls truck hihi! and I can soon say that my hair realy starts to begin to turn gray here and there!!! But I don´t know if it´s age or just the fact that I´m still is in Sweden???)

S-E Werner!
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: bandmiller2 on September 23, 2009, 06:47:16 am
How much trouble is it to get an inspection sticker if they have to test for emissions??Probibly best to use an older truck exempt from testing.Frank C.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on September 23, 2009, 08:58:27 am

 Welcome to the FF, Mr. Werner.  8) 8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on September 23, 2009, 11:06:24 am
Hi every one!
Paul!
Hav`nt seen you at woodgasbuilder in a while now! I hope everything is good with you and  all!

(I read some old posts about me and Pauls truck hihi! and I can soon say that my hair realy starts to begin to turn gray here and there!!! But I don´t know if it´s age or just the fact that I´m still is in Sweden???)

S-E Werner!

Welcome SE ... 8)

I love Sweden.Your country has the REAL craftsman,. I've been wanting to build gassers for about 10 years, and finally built a decent shop, and put together a machine shop this year, so hopefully next spring I will start building a unit.

Paul and I both want to build a stationary gasser to power a small engine to drive an auto (Delco) alternator for a backup DC generator. I use the DC to charge my solar system.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on September 23, 2009, 06:13:51 pm
Some of the boys (on another thread) were going to Maine to hunt moose. One of the food items mentioned was horseradish cheese. Now I just gotta poke some fun in here, and was wondering if you might send them some of the moose cheese they make in Sweden?

Most everyone already thinks I'm nuts around here, but just another one of them moments.

Something Mighty Cheesy (http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,9295.0.html)   ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on September 23, 2009, 06:34:49 pm
I want to try some muuse cheese.

Swamp Donkey-

Did Clint Eastwood really say that? ... ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: pineywoods on September 23, 2009, 08:46:10 pm

. I've been wanting to build gassers for about 10 years, and finally built a decent shop, and put together a machine shop this year, so hopefully next spring I will start building a unit.

Paul and I both want to build a stationary gasser to power a small engine to drive an auto (Delco) alternator for a backup DC generator. I use the DC to charge my solar system.

DanG JPgreen, we think alike. I'm eyeing the 18 hp briggs I pulled off the woodmizer, got a pile of old propane tanks and hot water heaters. What I'm thinkin about would be a little different.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on September 23, 2009, 10:29:17 pm
It's our natural engineering minds Piney.

Now had we any sense we would be millionairs by now ... :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on September 24, 2009, 02:59:08 am
Swamp Donkey-

Did Clint Eastwood really say that? ... ;D

Yes, in his movie "The Enforcer" with Tyne Daly.  ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on September 24, 2009, 07:57:53 pm
Hi every one!
Paul!
Hav`nt seen you at woodgasbuilder in a while now! I hope everything is good with you and  all!


Werner,

I hadn't heard from you for awhile either and thought maybe you got thrown in jail or something  :D
Have you heard from Johan?There is nothing new on his website.

Everything is okay here and I've driven the woodgas truck around town a few times but had to park it for awhile when the weather was really hot because I didn't want to risk having the woodgas generator "sneeze" and throw some sparks.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on September 24, 2009, 08:18:13 pm
Woodgas sneeze? That's a scary thought for around here Paul.  Never knew they could get a cold. Don't they make a handkerchief for that? ... :D :o
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on September 24, 2009, 09:10:13 pm
It doesn't happen too often Pat but the gasifier will have a minor backfire or explosion that is released through the springloaded lid.It blows a bit of smoke but it's really no big thing.

When I leave here through the reserve,there is a steep hill that leaves the valley floor and it's a slow pull for the truck.For some reason,the truck would sneeze just at the crest of the hill and on a couple occasions there were tailgaters following but after the sneeze,they back way off  :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: beenthere on September 24, 2009, 10:59:07 pm
Paul
Maybe you could vent that out through a whistle, so when she blows it will sound like an old steam train comin through.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on September 25, 2009, 01:02:24 am
Paul ... :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: John Mc on September 27, 2009, 08:57:30 pm
Paul and I both want to build a stationary gasser to power a small engine to drive an auto (Delco) alternator for a backup DC generator. I use the DC to charge my solar system.

If you are interested in a DC generator, I've got a line on a bunch of used 5KW high-end DC generators (can do 12, 24 or 48 vdc, maybe other voltages?). They are set up to run on propane - I assume these could also burn wood gas. My brother-in-law picked up a bunch of them, surplus from a phone company merger. Can get them custom programmed for off-grid battery charging, or other applications. If you are interested, let me know and I'll dig up more info.

John Mc
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on September 28, 2009, 10:49:01 am
Interesting.

Pics, more info?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: John Mc on September 28, 2009, 11:18:01 am
JPGreen -

Here's a link to the website with info on the Generators: http://www.sagecliff.com/generators/ (http://www.sagecliff.com/generators/)

Site has a basic description (pulled from a product brochure), links to manuals, & etc. At the bottom of the page is the contact info for my brother-in-law, who has a bunch of them. He is negotiating to sell a good bit of them to a telephone cooperative, but is willing to split them up.

Engines are Briggs & Stratton Vanguard. He also is working with one of the engineers who was on the team who designed them, who will recondition and reprogram them for various applications.

My B-I-L is also interested in somewhat interested in woodgas, so he'd probably enjoy a conversation with you about what you're up to with that, and how his generators might work on woodgas.

Tell him I said "hi"

John Mc
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Alan Stephen on December 04, 2010, 03:11:52 pm
what happen to all wood gas People
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on December 04, 2010, 03:28:12 pm
Ran out of puff and steam. :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Alan Stephen on December 04, 2010, 03:30:24 pm
well it good reading while it lasted
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on December 04, 2010, 03:34:05 pm
Actually, Paul is quite busy with his new business I suspect. Probably at times wishes he was driving the wood gas FORD instead. ;)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on December 04, 2010, 04:04:50 pm
You're right SD,we've had no time for the truck this year.It's at a friends place in Pemberton until another friend can bring it over on his trailer.
Ron has been active still with his truck.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on December 04, 2010, 04:19:37 pm
Paul, I was meaning to ask you if they did much brushing over there in your new neighborhood? There is a fellow from back east here with a tree planting forum and it seems they are talking mostly BC tree planting, not much about brushing besides what I tell'm.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on December 04, 2010, 04:44:33 pm
There was a couple of crews that went through a few months ago and they hired quite a few locals but I don't know much other than they are running FS250 saws or the equivilent
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on December 04, 2010, 04:48:22 pm
Seems like light cutting, eh? How much cc are those? 25 or 30? We must have cut 1500 acres this year, I cut over 100 myself.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on December 04, 2010, 04:57:27 pm
They're 40 cc
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on December 04, 2010, 05:04:39 pm
Well, that's not too bad in small softwood.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron57 on April 11, 2011, 08:19:51 pm
  Hi forum it has been a while since I have posted on here and have made a few changes to my woodburning truck so far I have logged 2800 miles burning wood.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on April 11, 2011, 08:34:39 pm
How far do you venture from home base in it?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron57 on April 12, 2011, 06:07:48 am
 So far the farthest has been 50-60 miles, but a sawmill in Grayling MI said if we come up they will give us wood to get back. Grayling is about 350mi or 500lbs of wood. I am kind of chicken but dont see any reason it wouldnt make it.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on April 12, 2011, 06:25:56 am
a sawmill in Grayling MI said if we come up they will give us wood to get back. Grayling is about 350mi or 500lbs of wood.

 :D :D 8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on April 12, 2011, 12:15:05 pm
So far the farthest has been 50-60 miles, but a sawmill in Grayling MI said if we come up they will give us wood to get back. Grayling is about 350mi or 500lbs of wood. I am kind of chicken but dont see any reason it wouldnt make it.

Ron- I may have missed it as I haven't been around here that much these last few years.  Is your truck shown somewhere here?

I finally got around to designing a wood chunk/block processing saw for wood gassers.

You can easily process 300-500 and more blocks per minute depending on the block size you need, density of wood species, from small diameter logs, branches, and specially mill ends, or sticker like milled logs at the thickness you desire.

It is fully adjustable for chunk size.  Runs on 110-220v or can be gas or hydraulic powered. Simple engineering and no specialized parts. Heavy duty and user serviceable.

Very easy and safe to use. Even a petite young lady could operate it.

This is what I do for a living, so it's not something I'm posting for the public good, but would be a product for sale.  I'm trying to determine how much of a potential market there may be for it.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: beenthere on April 12, 2011, 12:37:51 pm
jp
Have you built it, or just designed it?

Any pics or video of it chunking wood?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron57 on April 12, 2011, 12:42:17 pm
  Hi J.P.; There are some photos in my photo gallery, I cant figure out how to bring them up to my posts. Does your chunker work like a block cutter for pallets? Right now we produce enough fuel just fron our cut offs that are the right size.Do you have any photos of your block producer.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Jeff on April 12, 2011, 12:58:36 pm
If you come up to grayling on 127, you come right by my house. My property line is not but 50 feet from the X-way fence.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on April 12, 2011, 12:59:34 pm
I don't know how a block pallet cutter works.

No I don't have it finished yet to post a video or pics, and I won't be until I make an arrangement with someone to fabricate it for sale to the public, and I will patent it.

I do tool and die manufacturing now, and I don't do manufacturing with welding or fabricating any more.  Found an easier cleaner way to make a living, specially for a guy approaching his mid 50's ... :D

It all hinges on the size of the Market. It would definitely sell for under $4000 retail. Probably closer to between $2000 and $3000, electric powered.

The only thing I have seen that would process fuel faster is the Laimet chipper. It will out produce anything else I've seen and safely. That is a huge issue for me. I would not build one, unless it was totally safe.

If there's no market numbers for it, I'll just show it and let home users have at it. Someone with basic sound fabrication skills could build it.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron57 on April 12, 2011, 01:10:50 pm
  Hi Jeff we go right by your house every year. We go up to Grayling to camp to get away from the crowd down here. When I was in the National Guard we went there everyother year to train in the summer.but that has been about 30 years ago.
   There are a lot of sawmills in that area. AJD supplies our palletmill with a lot of aspen, they are good people to work with and pretty good quality lumber.
   Do you have a woodgas producer?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Jeff on April 12, 2011, 03:02:01 pm
AJD was probably our biggest competitor for aspen logs when I worked at the mill here in Harrison.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: timerover51 on April 12, 2011, 11:38:48 pm
Ron57, did you make that wood gas producer off of some plans or did you design it yourself?  That seems like it would be a pretty viable alternate to normal petroleum fuels in some more remote areas of the world, like the Solomon Islands where I hope to be next summer.  I am thinking of taking out a small steam launch to use for running around in the islands, powered by wood and water.  They are never going to run out of wood there.  That wood gas powered pickup would work nicely out on some of the islands too.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron57 on April 13, 2011, 02:03:30 am
   Hi Timerover; The Mother Earth News magazine sells plans for 15$. I dont know if these are the best designs but they seem to work well enough. I have made a few changes to make it easier to service and adjust.
 
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on April 13, 2011, 10:07:19 am

Here are a couple pics of Ron's pretty little woodgas truck.


(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18539/Ford.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18539/photo2.jpg)

Ron,

I hope you take the truck to Grayling.Stop in and see Jeff on the way by and he might even have some wood chunks for you. :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron57 on April 13, 2011, 04:44:40 pm
  Hi Paul, thanks for posting the pics I have loaded some new ones into my photo gallery but cant figure out how to bring them up to the forum, I tried 5X it says they have been copied but I dont know where they went.
   So are you thinking of firing up your truck? There was an older gentleman from Tenn who was building a MEN gasifier and had some hard questions I told him he could contact you through Forestry Forum last year. I dont know if he ever got it running right . He finally found part of the problem he used galvanized pipe for the preheat tubes and when he welded it the galvanizing fell down and plugged most of the tubes.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: timerover51 on April 13, 2011, 05:12:31 pm
Thanks for the picture post, Paul.  That looks like it is a very straightforward and compact setup.

Ron, how hard was it to set up the engine to run on the produced gas.  I know that in World War 2, there was a lot of wood-burning trucks used in Europe, and I have seen mixed reviews on the experience.

With respect to fuel, does it make a difference if you use green verses seasoned wood?  And have you tried running it on charcoal?  I cannot see doing that on a regular basis here, unless you make your own, but I will be doing a fair amount in the Solomon Islands in the South Pacific next year, and they have an unlimited supply of tropical hardwoods.  Something like your pickup would be a nice thing to have there.  It would be interesting to see if that could be adapted to run a internal combustion engine on a boat or landing craft as well.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Jeff on April 13, 2011, 05:28:37 pm
I would suggest reading this entire thread. Paul takes you from the beginning of his project to video's driving around within it's content.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: timerover51 on April 13, 2011, 05:36:29 pm
I would suggest reading this entire thread. Paul takes you from the beginning of his project to video's driving around within it's content.

Okay, Jeff, will do later tonight.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: timerover51 on April 15, 2011, 07:19:18 pm
I have gone through the entire thread, and found it most interesting.  One thing I would say it that someone, with Paul's permission, should compile all of his comments, pictures, and drawings, and put them into a handbook format for others to use in building wood gas units.  I suspect that if might sell pretty well.

Second, that a pickup truck appears to be the ideal vehicle to mount the unit on, having plenty of space for it, while retaining a fair amount of capacity, and keeping it out of harms way in minor fender bender type accidents.

Third, am I correct in saying that it will work only with a vehicle with a carburetor and not with a vehicle with fuel injectors?  If that is the case, it looks like you would need either an older vehicle, or some way of converting the engine from fuel injection to a carburetor.  If I am wrong, please correct me.

Lastly, is there any difference in performance when burning a soft wood such as pine or a hard wood such as oak?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: pineywoods on April 15, 2011, 08:46:05 pm
timeover51, try this link. http://victorygasworks.ning.com/ It's another forum devoted entirely to woodgas generators. On the question of carburator vs fuel injected, remember woodgas is not a liquid, it's usually just mixed with the proper amount of air and squirted right into the air intake. Probably would take some backyard engineering to run an injected motor. Most of my research (no experience) says softwoods generate a lot more tar and creosote. I am in the process of building a small gasifier just to get some experience. IF it works ok, may hook it up to an old gas massey ferguson tractor or a 1930 model A ford pickup.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: beenthere on April 20, 2011, 12:45:15 am
Here is a video of a Finnish built wood burnng El Camino.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZdPkrghUZM&feature=player_embedded
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron57 on April 22, 2011, 07:57:02 pm
   Hi Forestry Forum, I have built 3 hearths and grates using the frying pans they work good but only last about 1500 miles.Last year I discussed with Paul briefly how to build a better one and he suggested making one with a deeper reduction, so I put this together to drop through the top frying pan.I made it 6" wide inside and 5" deep, hopefully this will help get a more complete reduction and 0-6o in 6 seconds lol
   Thanks Ron L
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron57 on April 22, 2011, 08:57:16 pm
 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18539/3459/New_Hearth_for_MEN_Gasifier_009.jpg)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron57 on April 22, 2011, 09:27:34 pm
 sorry I accide >:(tly deleated my photo album I cant believe it :(
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: timerover51 on April 22, 2011, 09:43:55 pm
Ron, that is not a good thing, although I have done a few things like it.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron57 on April 22, 2011, 10:29:03 pm
 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18539/3459/New_Hearth_for_MEN_Gasifier_008.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18539/3459/New_Hearth_for_MEN_Gasifier_007.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18539/3459/New_Hearth_for_MEN_Gasifier_001.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18539/3459/New_Hearth_for_MEN_Gasifier_004.jpg)
 The first photo is of the origional MEN hearth with about 1500 mi,
 The second is the grate end of the hearth
 Third is the restriction end of thehearth
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron57 on April 22, 2011, 11:22:02 pm
 

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18539/3459/Men%232_At_the_Nappanee_Apple_Festival_2010_032.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18539/3459/woodgas_working_001.jpg)
   Top photo is the Gasifier, dry filter and coolers
   Bottom is a load of boxes headed to South Bend IN about a 75 mi round trip. The truck ran good!!!
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: timerover51 on April 23, 2011, 01:18:17 am
Ron, how much would it cost for you to build another unit like that?  Not including the truck.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron57 on April 23, 2011, 06:46:12 am
 Hi Timerover,
The cost of building a unit depends on how good of a forager you are. Part of the challenge is to build it for nothing but, that probably won't happen. I have between $500 - $700 in it. My biggest source of parts and material was from a local plumbing and heating business that let me scavage through the scrap they had from repair jobs they had done. So if you are a good welder and a good source it won't cost that much. Local scrap yards are paranoid about liability. They wouldn't let me have any scrap for my project. Hope this helps. Let me know if you start one. It will be interesting. Paul Halverson was a tremendous help when I built mine.
Thanks, Ron Lemler 8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: jpgreen on April 23, 2011, 10:55:00 am
Is the problem with the pans cracking?  Cast iron is really pretty weak. Specially a pan as it would continually warp from heating and cooling, and it looses it's original strength to handle warpage with the center cut out.

If you could weld one up with heavy plate in an octagon shape and compound angles, it would never do that. Be a lot of work, but would probably last years.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: ibbob on April 23, 2011, 02:53:16 pm
Hey Ron,

I've seen that rig on the road.  8) 

Say sumpin if you go back to the Apple fest or anything like that.  Sure would like to see it up close.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron57 on April 23, 2011, 04:38:24 pm
 Hi Bob; I am planning on entering it in the Apple Fest again this year. My kids have a lot of fun there handing out candy and walking in the parade.
 They have a hard time figuring out what catagory to enter the truck in one year it was in in with all the fire trucks,last year it was misc automotive. It was alot of fun
  We are from Bourbon not far from you, With gas almost $4 gal I have been driving it alot and making small deliveries of pallets and misc parts to local businesses.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: timerover51 on April 24, 2011, 04:52:55 am
Hi Timerover,
The cost of building a unit depends on how good of a forager you are. Part of the challenge is to build it for nothing but, that probably won't happen. I have between $500 - $700 in it. My biggest source of parts and material was from a local plumbing and heating business that let me scavage through the scrap they had from repair jobs they had done. So if you are a good welder and a good source it won't cost that much. Local scrap yards are paranoid about liability. They wouldn't let me have any scrap for my project. Hope this helps. Let me know if you start one. It will be interesting. Paul Halverson was a tremendous help when I built mine.
Thanks, Ron Lemler 8)

Ron, I am not a welder, or mechanic, I am a lot of things but not those.  I was wondering how much it would cost me to have you build one for me?  It would be nice to have something like that next year in the Solomons, or even for here is gas keeps going up.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: JSNH on April 29, 2011, 12:44:44 pm
This is a really fun thread to follow. Wood gas is really for the extreme DIY person. I ran into a site that is pushing wood gas along and selling parts and units and has an active discussion board. I though some of us who has been watching this thread woud like to also check out it out: http://www.gekgasifier.com/

JSNH
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: twobears on May 10, 2011, 02:06:17 pm

 i,am looking into building my own woodchip Gassification unit to boil maple syrup. i,ve done some research and some people seem to use this same idea to do it..has anybody here done it or tryed it??
 one patent i looked at uses a unit like the men unit but skips the filters and pipes the gas into a firebrick lined steel box and lights/burns it there and there flairs it off into the furance.
 
 delbert
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron57 on July 20, 2011, 11:43:55 am
  Hi Forestry forum members; Mr Wayne Keith stopped in on his way to Michigan. Driving his wood burning truck , it is over 600 miles from his house to here he was burning wood all the way. He gave me a ride in his Dodge Dakota with the 318CID we were going the speed limit + that thing will move. I gave him a couple bags of Indiana hardwood chunks for on his way home.
   Indiana hardwoods are like Indiana Maple Syrup it is just better.
 I posted a picture of Wayne and his truck in my photos.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18539/3459/Woodgas_Grayling_Trip_2011_and_Wayne_Keiths_visit_007.jpg)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on March 19, 2012, 01:10:38 am
A few years ago in this thread I posted some pics of a trip to customer/friends that we had milled,dried and planed a T&G floor for,out of Birch logs from their property.

Link to woodgas trip (http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,11938.msg438476.html#msg438476)

I had bought the planer from an oldtimer and logger(Bob) in 2002 and he told me I had to move it off his property within the year.I never did move it and he told me he liked the activity so I was welcome to keep it there.
Just before we moved he asked if I could run a 1x8 floor for him so I obliged.
I left the planer with him in appreciation for keeping it on his land.

The video shows Bob and me running his floor.

http://youtu.be/RlEOIUvQjTk
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Okrafarmer on March 19, 2012, 09:42:04 am
Wood gas is becoming more mainstream. I have met a man here in South Carolina who has built a wood gas truck and a wood gas generator.

By the way, for those who would like to read something that included the use of wood gas burners in the WWII era, I read a book a while back called "China Changed My Mind"  I can't remember the author's name, but he was an English Conscientious Objector who joined the Quaker's ambulance service and was sent to China, and there he operated trucks over the Burma Road and other roadways there in that area, hauling medical supplies. He does not go into many technical details about how the wood gasification works, but it was a fascinating read about a little-known part of the second world war, and the hardships the truck drivers faced.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: OneWithWood on March 19, 2012, 12:16:23 pm
Thanks for the video, Paul.  Sometime in the near future I will be running some t&g for ceiling and wall paneling.  Unfortunately I will be running on a router table and probably not having near as much productivity.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: bandmiller2 on March 20, 2012, 08:59:03 am
Guys I must read this thread from the beginning.Quickie question with a truck what do you do for A sticker emission test, I know in my anal state it would hit tilt. Frank C.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: sawdust on March 20, 2012, 10:44:34 am
I bet you could test it for NOX and get zero  8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on March 20, 2012, 11:42:18 am
Guys I must read this thread from the beginning.Quickie question with a truck what do you do for A sticker emission test, I know in my anal state it would hit tilt. Frank C.

Frank,

I copied this from Wiki on Woodgas

Quote
Against general belief, exhaust gas emission from an internal combustion engine is significantly lower on wood gas than on petrol.[6] Especially the HC emissions are low on wood gas.[7] A normal catalytic converter works well with wood gas, but even without it, emission levels less than 20 ppm HC and 0.2% CO can be easily achieved by most automobile engines. Combustion of wood gas generates no particulates, and the gas renders thus very little carbon black amongst motor oil.[8]

Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: biker250 on April 17, 2012, 03:29:07 pm
Well, I just read every post in this thread......my eyes are dry, but my brain is bulging with info and anxious to try this out for myself.  Ron, I live in southern Indiana, a good trip from your place, but neat to see other Hoosiers trying this out.

Paul, awesome work.  Thanks for sharing all the details.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron57 on April 17, 2012, 04:40:21 pm
 Hi biker 250,  Indiana hardwoods make the best truck fuel I am biased of course.
  May 18,19-20 at the Marshall Co. fairgrounds in Argos IN there will be a meeting of woodgassers from around the Midwest. Wayne Keith from Alabama is coming, he holds the world woodgas speed record, and so far about 30 others are coming,most of which are driving a vehicle or bringing some sort of woodgas demonstration.
  Any one driving in on woodgas will be provided wood for fuel to drive home on, it will be an interesting meeting.
 Paul you have been wanting to get your truck going again this will be a good opportunity!!

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18539/MEN___3_for_tractor_047%7E0.jpg)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on April 17, 2012, 04:44:54 pm
I won't make it Ron but please take a lot of pictures  8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: beenthere on April 17, 2012, 05:12:36 pm
Ron
Is the trailer loaded with your "fuel" for the trip?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Okrafarmer on April 17, 2012, 09:38:49 pm
It's either that or he is smuggling some kind of contraband...
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Mooseherder on April 17, 2012, 10:22:41 pm
Wayne Keith and his Wood burning trucks are featured in the newest issue (issue 251) of Mother Earth News.  He mentions having saved 40,000 dollars worth of gas by converting his trucks to wood gasification since 2004.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Okrafarmer on April 18, 2012, 08:37:53 am
Wayne Keith and his Wood burning trucks are featured in the newest issue (issue 251) of Mother Earth News.  He mentions having saved 40,000 dollars worth of gas by converting his trucks to wood gasification since 2004.

But how many dollars of gas or electricity to cut all the wood? Maybe none if he did it by hand....
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Al_Smith on April 18, 2012, 10:28:53 am
The Mother Earth news thing ,way back .They used a Pontiac Tempest 6 cylinder engine with producer gas to run a generater .Captured the heat from the exhaust to heat water etc .

Typical Mother earth news stuff they didn't get into any details on how it pretty much turned the engine into junk in a short period of time or the fact it only produced at best 40 horse power if that much .Unlike Paul Harvey they often left out the entire or "rest of the story " .Eventualy because they were more interested in selling plans on the side most people as did myself got rather annoyed  reading 40 pages of ads and 10 pages of usefull information . They started out good but ended less than IMO .
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Al_Smith on April 18, 2012, 10:39:14 am
Another thing those wizards did was make a hybrid auto from a Chevy Chevette .Used a starter motor from I think a B29 ,a bunch of deep cell batteries and an Onan pancake 18 HP engine with a generater .

Sounds like a plan but the rest of that story .1974 Chevette at 2 grand ,about that much in batteries plus the Onan and just where does one find a starter motor from a B29 .It isn't like you can just trot off to the local junk yard and round one up .

Yeah so it got 60 MPG if that ,would at best run 65 MPH going down hill .You've got 7 grand in it plus a year to round up the parts and put it together .All along a '78 Chevette got 35-40 MPG and cost 4500 bucks and gas was 65 cents a gallon .

So just what did all that prove ,nothing in practicality other than something to do for those with time on their hands and a lot of money .
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on April 18, 2012, 11:08:41 am

But how many dollars of gas or electricity to cut all the wood? Maybe none if he did it by hand....

He uses a cutter built from a old rear axle out of a 5 ton truck powered by woodgas,of course.Works slick as snot.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on April 18, 2012, 11:51:56 am
If you think of a big juicy steak,you know it has many calories in it and doesnt take anywhere near that energy to cut it up with a knife,it's the same thing with a log.
I know I only used a small portion of a gallon to slice up this log in the video but drove many miles with the wood cut from this Alder.

*the mill is set here with the double edgers to cut 2 pieces of 2x2's in a pass.There is a 3rd edger that would allow for 3.

I sure don't have any illusions about woodgas replacing gasoline but it is as satisfying to build your own system and it's along the lines of growing your own veggies even though they might be half the price at the grocery store.


http://youtu.be/7w3-qvJB2io
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Al_Smith on April 18, 2012, 12:30:29 pm
Slick deal .There is a local yokel who had something about like that .Used a VW engine with a rope starter .
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on April 18, 2012, 12:37:35 pm
Al,
I was sorry to leave it when we moved here but the buyer wanted the mill and the kiln and was willing to pay.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Al_Smith on April 18, 2012, 01:02:16 pm
Those type mills are neat .Not something you see too often though .Fact I've only seen one in action which is the local guy .

He had the little mill with two blades and a big old Frick with a big diesel .I'm not even certain if he's still in the lumber biz these days .
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Okrafarmer on April 18, 2012, 09:13:15 pm
Please don't understand me wrongly. I am completely in favor of everyone who wishes to do so, building gassifying equipment and using it. There could very well come a time when petro-fuels are far more expensive than they are now, or even impossible to obtain. The more people running on wood gas and other self-sustaining sources of energy the better. Because, as you have aptly proven, it is not at all easy to set one of these things up, and it takes time and resources to build them. If we come to a time of crisis, those of us who are not tinkering with them now, will not be able to cobble one up after the fact. Therefore, the more people doing it now, the better.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron57 on May 22, 2012, 03:32:42 pm
Hi Jeff, Paul and forum group,Last weekend was the woodgas meeting at the Marshall Co. Fairgrounds and it was a blast there was a large turn out both experienced woodgassers and thoes looking to build and experiment with it.People came all the way from TX to Maine. Five wood powered vehicles, a tractor, riding mower, smokeless charcoal maker a charcoal gas generator producing electric and one that would run a vechcle, a gasifier boiler for heat and a couple camping stoves for cooking.
  A lot of experienced woodgas veterans, Wayne Keith, Mike LaRosa,Rick Bates, Jeff Davis,Gary Gilmore,Jim Hart, and many more new builder that are mastering the science to run engins successfully.
 Here is a link to the drive on wood web site there are a lot of pic there already and more coming in.
http://driveonwood.com/forum/80?page=1#comment-1954
 Thanks and keep on burning wood, Ron L
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron57 on May 22, 2012, 04:59:09 pm
 

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18539/MEN___3_for_tractor_114.jpg)
  I pulled this tractor 20mi to the fairgrounds and home on wood
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: biker250 on May 22, 2012, 08:25:15 pm
Well, I had to see it to believe it.  I attended the get together at the fairgrounds last weekend, and I'm here as a witness that it is real and it really works.  I even got to take a spin in that old red Ford in the above picture and if you were wearing a blindfold, you would've never guessed that the truck wasn't running on gasoline.  It sounds the same, drives the same, accelerates almost the same, etc.  It is almost unbelievable, but these guys really got it pretty well figered out and now I can't wait to get started on my own system.  Thanks Ron for a great event, it was great to meet you & other woodgassers.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on May 24, 2012, 10:40:41 am
Welcome biker250  :)

Great pics of the event Ron,thanks for the link and the report,it's good to see the club is increasing.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on May 24, 2012, 05:40:26 pm
Ron, that looks like a good time with fellow wood gasers.  8) I'm interested in seeing such things, but I'm not mechanically inclined enough to do any such project. This going to be an annual show/gathering?  :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron57 on May 24, 2012, 07:11:14 pm
  Hi Swamp Donky;I believe this is going to be an annual meeting, they have already had meetings for the last three years but not on this scale.Last year it was near Pittsburg Kansas ,If the group wants I will be glad to host it here again next year they have talked about southern In or KY also for the people down south.
                                                                                   
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on May 24, 2012, 09:41:32 pm
Well, being as your probably a small group, it's nice to move around the country so others get to join in the action or see things.  ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Okrafarmer on June 21, 2012, 11:03:17 pm
Hmm-- a wood-burning sawmill might be in order.

 :P
 :o

Or would that be perpetual motion?  ???
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on August 30, 2012, 10:36:46 pm
We went down to Pemberton a couple weeks ago and had a visit with the friends that are storing my woodgas truck.I was a little concerned that the gasifier might have rust issues but it looks good and it's been on my mind to get it over here so I can putter on it and smell that unique woodgas aroma.

I got an email a few days ago from a fellow named Jared in South Dakota that I had talked to a couple years ago.He is working on a  woodgas truck and is making a good job of it.
Here is part of the email and he gave me permission to share his pics as well.
It's encouraging to see guys building and tinkering.

Quote
Hi Paul,
I guess it's been a couple years since I emailed you about the MEN wood gas truck that you built and I would like to build.  I'm still working on mine down here in South Dakota but it's been hard to find the time to do it.  I just finished modifying the carburetor and once my job at the railroad ends in September, maybe I can take a month and finish welding the last of it.

Are you still driving your truck?  Gas prices are starting to jump again down here. 

Anyways, I'm wondering how you dealt (or did not deal) with spark advance control that the MEN plan briefly mentions?  The distributor that the MEN plan talks about belongs to a Chevy but the truck I'm using is a 1978 Ford F150 and I believe yours is a similar model. 

Thanks,
Jared Rittberger


Here are Jared's pics

The first shows the inside of the gasifier with the air tubes that run down to the tuyeres.On top of the gasifier you can see his modified carb ready to install on the engine.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/100_8051op.jpg)


 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/100_8050op%7E0.jpg)

Jared has made flanges to give him better access to the hearth and tuyeres which is a great idea because sooner or later you need to do maintenance.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: isawlogs on September 01, 2012, 10:01:20 am
 Those are some of the things I wish I could find time for, list is just sooooo long  :-\  but said list is always interesting at some point. I think the worst part of it all is that I have too many points of interest and just tooooo many things I want to do. Priorotising is the issue  ::) :)  It's a good thing though, as I never get bored  teeter_totter
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on September 01, 2012, 12:35:25 pm
I agree Marcel,priorities.
The shop has been my full time project 65 hours a week and I don't dare stray too far off track until we accomplish our goals for the place.I did take a unrestored 1929 Model A roadster for a test drive a month ago and the price was a good one but after mulling on it awhile,decided to keep focused. ;)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: isawlogs on September 02, 2012, 09:46:10 pm
  :) BIL has a '27 Star sitting in boxes and rolling chassis that could be an addition to my todo list, but the list is sooooo long that I just can't seam to find the light of day that would bring me close to the Star.....  :-\
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on September 28, 2012, 11:11:26 pm
A friend and I left here at 5:30 the other morning and went to Pemberton to pick up the woodgas truck.10 miles down the road,the spring in the trailer latch broke and the trailer jumped off the hitch,tripped the brakes and the safety chains did their job.(rented trailer)
We hooked it back up and used black tape and zap straps to hold the latch and continued on the 5 hour trip.
When we got to Pemberton,the truck wouldn't start because the battery is shot.We dragged the truck backwards but the left rear wheel was locked.As I was dragging the woodgas truck with my Chev,a stick jillpoked and tore the inner plastic fender off my front driver side and another bent the exhaust. ???
I was feeling like a 14 year old that got his dad's truck stuck and wondered if we were going to get home the same day.
We dragged the truck down to the trailer but on the sidehill,the locked wheel put us off lead to the trailer.We hooked the winch to the truck and it sparked but wouldn't pull.Got out the come-alongs and had to use a purchase and got only three feet at a time before re rigging.
Finally got it on and secured,then used gear clamps to hold the hitch and headed back home around 4pm.Stopped for gas on the other side of the mountain pass(14% in places) and a couple guys told us the right rear trailer wheel was flat and they offered to phone Cal Tire and have them wait for us.$180.00 later we had a new tire and drove on toward home.

I pulled in the driveway at 10:30,parked the truck,had a quick visit with my wife and I headed of to bed- quite tired.
The truck is finally here and I look forward to firing it up again and smell the crosote smell of woodgas again!

Here  is a cool old Swedish documentary on woodgas production and usage in 1942

http://youtu.be/vGO5J9HMkGE
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: mad murdock on September 29, 2012, 05:09:09 am
That was a cool video! Glad you made it home with everything in one piece. Will be great to hear of your progress and updates with the truck.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on September 29, 2012, 05:24:55 am
That's quite a journey home. Should have took one of the kids along, something to talk about and be reminded of for some time. ;D :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: magicmikey on October 07, 2012, 11:42:22 pm
  Paul, this is the last week to get the gasser shined up for the show. :-X
mike
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on October 08, 2012, 08:58:09 am
Hi Mike,
I plan to go to the show next week but not with the woodgas truck  ;)
There is an 87 Ford F150 with a 300 six I've been looking at but it is fuel inject and I would have preferred a carb. I still may see about buying it and swapping over.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron57 on October 12, 2012, 02:17:55 am
  Hi Paul,
 I am glad to see you got your truck back all right.My truck has the 300cid 6 cylinder and it runs good but is pretty wimpy pulling a trailer.Your gasifier should switch over well. I run 2500rpms at 60mph and my sizing is pretty close to yours.The best thing is all of the room under the hood to work with.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on January 01, 2013, 07:09:34 pm
As the season slowed down there has been more time to work on the woodgas truck.I found a 1982 F100 with a 300 6 cyl and got a steel bush box cheap and cut the sides off to make a flatbed. I didn't like how high the gasifier sat on the old truck and I wanted it side mounted like I had seen in pics from the 1940's so this was a good opportunity.
Instead of the liquid coolant style cooler,this truck will have a cooling rack which will cool the gas and serve as sides for the flat bed.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/302optwg.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/301optwg.jpg)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Jeff on January 01, 2013, 07:11:17 pm
Nice.  :)

Oh it would be wonderful to have a shop. :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on January 01, 2013, 07:46:17 pm
It is nice and it's great to have all the tools handy as well.We have a shop at home but I would be afraid to grind or weld in it.If the truck was 2 feet longer it wouldn't fit ,even diagonal as it is now.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: SwampDonkey on January 02, 2013, 03:57:13 am
Yes, it is nice and warm when it's freezing outside. ;D

I've seen a lot of fellas work out on their lawns or drive ways over the years, but that ends when it's freezing cold. That ain't fun. :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: JuniperBoss on January 09, 2013, 09:52:25 pm
Why aren't there wood-burning truck manufacturers? I've seen videos on it. A guy lit his barrel up, stoked it with wood and off he went going 45mph down the road. A thousand miles per cord sounds pretty darn good to me, compared to silly G-A-S-O-L-I-N-E. What's wrong with this picture?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: edstoddard on January 15, 2013, 09:25:47 pm
Mother Earth News built and drove a truck cross country on a cord of wood in the 70's.  They even hooked up an inverter and used an eletric chain saw to it to cut brush on the side of the road.  Also, the Germans during WWII built wood gasifiers for their cars, including the new Beetle and on Kubelwagens.  I have a collection of photos showing their results.  Wood gasification yields about 60% of the original power using gasoline, so you won't win any drag races, but the wood is usually free.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on January 15, 2013, 11:57:14 pm
Welcome to the forum Ed.
You are right in all you said.Somewhere in the 25 pages of this thread it has been talked about also.
We'd sure like to see your pics.


Today at the shop,a old Italian customer came in for some oil and we got talking about fuel and different systems and I asked him if he ever heard about woodgas.He remembers them during the war and his older brother worked for a company chunking wood into blocks for woodgas systems.I took him out back to see the gasifier and he knew what did what.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on February 08, 2013, 08:28:11 pm
I completed the cooling rack/condensor today and have it bolted in place and now have to plumb the cooling rack from the back of the truck up to the filter(cannister with blue stripe) and then from there to the engine and starting fan.

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/003ff.jpg) 

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/004ff.jpg) 

 (http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/005ff.jpg)


The rack on the passenger side is flanged fro removal or maintainance on the gasifier.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: isawlogs on February 08, 2013, 09:01:42 pm
 Last I saw a pic of you working on da wood burnin' truck you where in your driveway with snow, this sure looks like a much better deal.  :D
   I like how the gasifier sits lower on this truck. Alos you have some box left to carry some tools with you.  ;D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on February 08, 2013, 09:43:22 pm
Bonjour Marcel,
yes there is a full 6' of box plus the room between the gasifier and filter to store many bags of fuel :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: OneWithWood on February 09, 2013, 10:22:34 am
Looks great, Paul.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Mooseherder on February 09, 2013, 06:03:47 pm
Paul, Do you still have your other truck?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on February 10, 2013, 09:01:04 pm
The original truck was a 79 F100 but when I brought it home from Pemberton it had a seized rear brake drum,bondo falling out of the box and a few other issues so I got this 82 Ford to hang the gasifier.A few changes are the cooling rack which is a lot lighter and no moving parts or pumps.It will have a better quicker starting fan which should cut the start up time in half and whill have bigger piping and eventually a higher comp engine.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: r.man on February 11, 2013, 09:27:14 am
Paul are all your mods based on trial, error and guesses?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on February 11, 2013, 04:36:42 pm
The basic unit was built according to a set of $15.00 plans from Mother Earth News which based it's calculations on the historically proven Imbert design.There are a few graphs posted back at the beginning of the thread here and if a person wanted to,there is enough info to build a gasifier easily.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: mad murdock on February 11, 2013, 10:53:21 pm
That is looking like a very nice build! Great work on the rack/ condenser piping 8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on February 11, 2013, 11:52:08 pm
Thank you sir.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on April 01, 2013, 12:58:57 am
The truck is on the road and my daughter and I loaded it up last week and went on a 40 mile round trip and then today my son and I went the same distance.
Truck has been running well and I like it better than the '79 Ford.


http://youtu.be/3e3jG4OTS6M
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: mad murdock on April 01, 2013, 02:40:15 am
That is a fine vid! Great job by the camera crew and the refueling crew! That looks like a very good gas plant on that truck! Thanks for posting the vid Paul 8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: ellmoe on April 01, 2013, 08:16:53 am
Looking good, Paul. Thanks' for sharing. Question? Instead of miles/gallon, do you measure in miles/daughter? ;D It's good to see the family involvement.

Mark
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on April 01, 2013, 10:26:00 am
Thanks MM and Mark,
most all of the kids have been put to work on the woodgas system at one time or another,even the cat ;D
The things on the newspaper at 1:47 are a half dozen mice that the cat has been bringing to the front door so we also measure in miles per mouse now but it's a complicated formula. :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Jeff on April 01, 2013, 10:38:03 am
I must say, I love the hat. :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on April 01, 2013, 10:45:24 am
I've had it awhile :)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12666/paul-concrete-skree.jpg)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on June 22, 2014, 09:13:53 pm
It's been over a year since an update but we have been doing quite a bit with the truck.
Last year I took the truck to a couple local festivals and set the truck up on display with a couple posters that Jeff designed for me which shows quite well the inner workings of the gasifier and filter.

Here is the setup the night before.The idea was people could climb all over it and look into the top or under the hood

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/003woodgrind%7E0.jpg)

In October my grandkids came to visit us for a few days and they helped me and my daughters bag up the chunks and they got a ride for their efforts(ice cream later)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/optkids.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/072tgvopt.jpg)

The truck ran really well and when I drove to the steam threshers show in Vernon on a friday night in September it was a good feeling driving there and back with no hiccups. I met up with FF member Magickmikey there and had a good visit on the Sunday afternoon.

Here is a vid I took.(turn the volume down if you don't like Bill Munroe)  ;)

That is Magikmikey at 0:15 secs with his arms crossed

http://youtu.be/Mm6bqXHX52I

I'll post a few more pics later of the problems I had this Spring and how we fixed it.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: thecfarm on June 22, 2014, 09:20:20 pm
Like that video!!
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: mad murdock on June 22, 2014, 10:37:03 pm
Awesome vid Paul. Keep the pics and vids coming.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on June 23, 2014, 12:07:21 am
Thank you!

I mentioned problems with the truck this spring and it turned out to be so simple that I missed it but it all worked out for the better as it forced me to make a change that I have wanted to do for a few years.

To prevent bridging I used a steel rod to poke down through the wood chunks into the hearth zone  and one time must have got carried away and broke the welds where the two cast iron pans that formed the hearth were welded together.

The hearth can be seen in the bottom of this diagram Jeff made

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/gasifier_sm%7E0.jpg)

Here is the old style from the side and again from the bottom with the SS grate. The cast iron hearth has the restriction(5") and the bottom pan serves as the reduction zone where the tars are cracked and the wood is chemically reduced to CO and H. The old style had too short of a zone so I wanted to add length like Ron Lemler did in his truck.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas_hearth_007opt.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/woodgas_054opt.jpg)

The ring welded around the hearthforms a lip to seal the hearth in the bottom at a certain distance from the nozzle ring.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/hearth1.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/hearth2.jpg)

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/hearth3.jpg)

With all that change,I still could not make proper gas and the system backfired and puffed and quit on me 3 miles from home and I had to switch over to gasoline to get home.I wasn't a happy camper.

One thing I had noticed was the air inlet to the nozzles hadn't been drawing like it used to and I had wondered if there were plugged pipes or some other restriction.Some earnest prayer led me to a very simple solution.

The spring loaded lid is sealed with a stove gasket and hi temp silicone but it had hardened over time and lost it's seal,allowing air to enter in through the lid but no prperly through the nozzle ring in the oxidization zone.
A good wire brushing and a new seal fixed everything.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/03400opt.jpg)

My next drives after that were better than it had ever been and I beat my old speed records for the route I usually take up the mountain road and through Deep Creek valley.On the home stretch I found that we were gaining on the cars ahead of us  8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on June 23, 2014, 12:27:05 am
Today was a good day to have off.
We started out heading down to Armstrong where my daughter rode in a 4H fun day with her horse.It was fun to watch and I got to eat one of the burgers that were smelling so good in the stands.

The little VW in the background is our little bomb around vehicle in the summer.Almost a 1/4 the fuel of my chev PU and fun to drive and cool off in after a long hot day.

(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/mare.jpg)

I had to leave early to meet Magicmikey who came over from Kamloops an hour and a half away to deliver some feed for my truck.Mike built a firewood processor and phoned me one day and asked what length of chunks I prefered.(2-3")
Mike arrived with his BIL Bob in his 1972 Ford truck with a Cummins diesel and a dump box filled with Fir cookies ready to chunk and bag for the woodgas truck.


(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/mikey1.jpg)


(http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/mikey2.jpg)

Mike has been a good friend and a help with my truck and a welcome visitor at our saw shop. Thanks Mike!
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: WDH on June 23, 2014, 07:18:36 am
Awesome.  You are very talented.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: OneWithWood on June 23, 2014, 12:06:40 pm
Well done, Paul!
Bill Munroe lived just up the road apiece.  Pickers still gather at his old place on an annual basis to pick and grin. :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on June 23, 2014, 02:42:17 pm
Danny,
more persistence and passion for woodgas than anything. :)

Robert,

Are you still running the bio diesel?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: ellmoe on June 23, 2014, 10:20:45 pm
    Watched the "Mountain Man" show on the History Channel tonight. Eustace, in N.C. (?), was operating his circle mill and then decided he needed to build a gasifier for his truck. Seems like this episode was geared to The Forestry Forum membership!
Mark
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on June 24, 2014, 09:26:58 am
Ellmoe,
Wayne Keith and a couple other woodgassers were approached by the producers of the show to build a woodgas system for the show but they didn't like what they saw and felt it would be portrayed as hokey and dangerous and so they declined.

To start and drive a woodgas vehicle should be straight forward and low risk.

1. Start fan and light
2. Wait for temps to get up
3. Start and drive

While driving there is absolutely no visable smoke and the exhaust smells of wood but not smoke(no gasoline smell) Once the engine is shutoff there is visible smoke from the lid for a minute and then nothing.
A proper system has reliefs built into the lids to take the energy away from a potential explosion.Mine has one on the gasifier and another on the filter tank.

Straight forward and low risk makes for boring TV  :D
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on June 24, 2014, 11:34:46 pm
A video of FF member Ron57. Ron built the truck shown here in the vid and also a woodgass powered tractor.

http://youtu.be/5FP6nHoF1uA
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: OneWithWood on June 30, 2014, 12:20:49 pm
Paul, sorry for the tardy response.
Yes, I am still doing the bio diesel thing.  We use about 3000 gallons a year fueling my 2005 F350, Linnea's 2007 LWB Sprinter, a JD4520 tractor, heating the workshop and back up for the OWB that heats Linnea's greenhouse. 
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: isawlogs on June 30, 2014, 10:24:24 pm
 thats alot of peanut oil,  :)

  How much do you do in a year?  Any issues getting the used oil? I remember reading about your making of, have you changed anything on it since?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: OneWithWood on July 01, 2014, 12:35:42 pm
Collect my canola oil from a few restaurants in Bloomington.
I average about 3000 gallons processed a year.
Haven't changed anything in the process for a number of years.  Still producing high quality fuel, so why mess with a good thing? :)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: isawlogs on July 01, 2014, 01:07:54 pm
 That is a pretty good savings when all said and done.  :)

 
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: mad murdock on July 03, 2014, 11:03:22 am
That is pretty impressive OWW! How big of a batch are you set up to process at a time? Do you you make your own Lye and alcohol for your process as well?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: OneWithWood on July 03, 2014, 12:05:43 pm
I process 50 gallons per batch.  Each batch takes 48 hours total time, but only about 30 min of hands on time.  I purchase potassium hydroxide flake for the lye.  The KOH is dissolved in methanol that I purchase.  I do a 2 stage process using sulfuric acid and methanol in the first stage and the KOH and methanol in the second.  Average cost per gallon processed is 86 cents.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: mad murdock on July 03, 2014, 10:26:50 pm
That is very cool. A question for PaulH. Have you seen his report?

http://web.ornl.gov/info/reports/1989/3445602994393.pdf

It is pretty cool.  I am going to start building a gassifier to tinker with, and get the hang of. We have tons of biomass on our tree farm that we can use for an endless supply of fuel. Your pcs and posts are inspiring me to get off my perverbial bahouckey and get it done.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on July 03, 2014, 11:32:38 pm
Hi Murdock,

I can't open the link,I tried going in to their main menu and finding it but couldn't. I sure hope you start cutting steel and building a woodgas system and post about it when you do.

Robert,
I didn't realise you made that much fuel!
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: OneWithWood on July 05, 2014, 12:53:09 pm


Robert,
I didn't realise you made that much fuel!

Since I began making Bio Diesel I have produced something north of 18,000 gallons.  Saved a bunch of money!  8)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: isawlogs on July 14, 2014, 01:16:27 pm
 Thats a lot of fuel, did you put the difference aside to buy a Ferrary  ???
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: OneWithWood on July 15, 2014, 08:16:51 am
Not particularly fond of Ferraris.  Too loud and not really practical for much.
I did acquire a number of woodworking tools and put a good bit of the saved dinero into a 28x40 addition to my barn that will provide a climate controlled space for woodworking.  When the addition is finished I will post some pics in my wannabe thread.
Don't hold your breath waiting for me to finish.  It is but one of the many projects going on around here.  smile_juggle
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: thechknhwk on July 15, 2014, 07:59:51 pm
Onewithwood, Can you run your bio diesel in colder weather?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: OneWithWood on July 16, 2014, 01:17:58 pm
Yes, I run bio diesel most of the year.  I start blending with petro diesel when the temps fall below 35°F and run straight petro when the temps are consistently below 20°F.  During a 'normal' winter that means running straight petro d for a couple of weeks.
I put off road petro in my tractor, crawler and mini-excavator December thru February just to make sure there are no issues should the temps take a nose-dive and I need them to start.  The F-350 lives in a garage so I can risk the bio better in cold weather.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Ron57 on July 20, 2014, 04:59:55 am
  Hi Paul ,Thanks for sharing the video of the Threshers meetup these are always interesting. Those old machines got the job done!!
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: billschi on April 10, 2017, 10:43:56 am
Thank you Paul for this post.
I spent my morning reading it instead of getting some work done. I was glad to see pics of Wayne Keith and Ron L. in here as well as the wood gas meet up. I was there the last 3 years and it's an amazing weekend. They are the best bunch of people a guy could meet. At last years meet up, Ron hooked up a turbo to his truck. It had some bugs to work out but it seem to take care of the loss of power.
Great strides have been made in the recent years with driving on wood from Wayne and others on the driveonwood.com site.
I built a mini Wayne Keith gasifier for my 15hp Sears riding lawnmower. I used it to process wood for the gasifier and generate electricity. Fun stuff.
I am curious if you still drive your truck and if so, what do you use to process your wood?
Bill S.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on April 11, 2017, 11:51:25 pm
Hi Bill,

It's been ten years since I built my first gasifier and I still drive the truck.It's insured and is in the driveway with a new windshield and ready to go. I've started a second gasifier according to Ben Petersen's plans and really like the design with all the heat exchange and recycling. I am close to completion of the gasifier itself but still have another couple days cutting and welding. It will power a 35 HP tractor.

I still process the wood chunks with a hatchet and a tall chopping block and have many miles of driving stored up in burlap sacks under a shed roof.(I like to unwind after work by chopping) We own a saw shop in town and we cut 2" rounds in the test log and I bring them home for fuel and Magikmikey also has brought me a couple loads from his processor he built.
Mike also built me a cool charcoal grinder with a trommel that cleans and sorts the charcoal into 3 differend sizes for our charcoal tractor.

I might someday build a new gasifier for the truck but in the meantime it works just fine.I look in at DOW once in awhile and am glad there is finally a good woodgas forum for more normal everyday people to become builders builders.
 
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: billschi on April 13, 2017, 07:36:40 am
Thanks for your response Paul.
Glad to hear the truck is still on the road. You say your truck is insured. Does that mean the insurance company knows it runs on wood gas? Some of the guys on DOW have had problems with insurance companies once they found out.
I would love to see what you are building for your tractor. I have a IH 340 Utility I want to run on wood. I will hook up my stationary unit to it soon to see how it does.
Here is the wood processor I made for my gasifiers.

https://youtu.be/K3T7QtbNYvk
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: mad murdock on April 13, 2017, 07:36:45 pm
That is one cool wood eating machine!! And powered by woodgas too, how cool is that!?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on April 13, 2017, 09:18:30 pm
Nice chunker, compact and neat and tidy!
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: sawdust on May 15, 2017, 02:02:34 pm
Morning Paul.

Joan and I are likely passing through Enderby later in June. Will bring donuts.
David
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on May 15, 2017, 10:36:01 pm
I look forward to seeing you guys again
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: justallan1 on November 08, 2017, 09:07:34 pm
WOW! What a great post. I've read bits and pieces here and there, but I just read the entire post between last night and today and what a great read it was. The only downfall is that some of the links are no longer in existence, but I'm sure there are new and possibly more sites about this stuff to be seen.
Our summer kid and I have discussed doing this to an old '77 1/2 ton with a straight six in it that I have. We'll see how that plays out.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: TKehl on November 09, 2017, 10:12:44 am
Keep in mind, you lose some power with woodgas.  I typically hear 2/3 to 70% of the power from gasoline is had running wood gas.

This makes a 300 Ford a better choice than a 225 Dodge from the power perspective.  Part of why I got a truck with the 460.   ;)
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on November 09, 2017, 10:59:01 am
justallan1,
The power loss is generally around 30%. On a hill the power loss is very noticeable but you learn to drive accordingly. The newer designs like Wayne Keith\s and Ben Petersen's recover more gas faster through heat recycling and insulation.
The MEN gasifier still works pretty good once temps are up in the gasifier.

TKehl,you are correct,a 300 six is a good choice and bigger is even better.  I look forward to seeing your progress.

Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: justallan1 on November 10, 2017, 04:04:13 pm
Can you guys steer me towards any pre-made plans for a 300 six cylinder, made by someone that you can trust has done a good job building these things....Please.
Whether it actually happens or it's something that I read up on, I think just learning about it would be great.
I've watched a bunch of videos and read a little, but there are just to many unknowns for me to just dive in with zero knowledge.
Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: justallan1 on November 10, 2017, 04:06:32 pm
ANNND...would it be smart to build one of these things on a smaller scale first to just get a better grasp of what's going on, say maybe big enough to run a 5 HP engine?
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on November 10, 2017, 11:33:41 pm
Wood gasifiers for small engines are at least as hard to build as one for larger engines but a charcoal gasifier is quite simple and will encourage you. They are fairly quick to make and will help you better understand running engines on wood..
Gary Gilmore has a few good vids on youtube and we have a couple charcoal threads on this board also.

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,81327.0.html

These produce dangerous carbon monoxide so don't run the units in a garage,otherwise it's just fine.

Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: justallan1 on November 11, 2017, 07:36:07 am
Thanks Paul.
You hit the nail on the head as to why I would want to build a small one, to build confidence and mainly to better understand the whole thing a bit better.

Edit, after hitting the link I find out it shows the site that I just found last night that seems to be a real decent starting point. LOL
Thanks again.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: justallan1 on November 11, 2017, 08:43:10 am
Sooooo.....can you run these things on coal also? My house sits a little off of the main part of the ranch and smack dab in the middle of a coal mine, literally.
Coal is basically free here. I think it's $27 a ton and if I wanted to get cheap about it we have had bunches of coal seam fires around the ranch where I can just go pick it up for free.
Just an idea.
Title: Re: Wood burning truck!
Post by: Paul_H on November 11, 2017, 02:38:54 pm
Yes :)