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Author Topic: Steep cable logging question  (Read 2567 times)

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Offline Puffergas

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2017, 01:36:54 PM »
I like the log cart and mount the hydraulic winch on the cart. You might be able to hitch the cart to the front blade. Nice dozers!
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Offline Corley5

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2017, 02:17:45 PM »
  There was an ol' boy here in this country that raised the fairlead/arch on a C5 Tree Farmer and loaded the winch with cable.  He'd back it up to the top of the ridge and anchor it to his AC HD6.  His crew would pull the cable down to the logs, winch them up, unhook the chokers from the mainline and rehook them into the cable on a 132 Franklin for skidding to the landing.  He didn't use it all the time or even on a regular basis but he had it when he had a job that it was useful for.  We do have some rugged ground up here.
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Offline Spartan

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2017, 02:43:31 PM »
How much can you pull up at a time?  That's a completely relative question based on your equipment.
We use 10 -12 ton machines with a gearmatic 119s.  With 5/8 cable we could pull the machine over the edge or go til the cable snaps.  Neither do I recommend.  West coast perspective we could pull up 2 28"-30" dbh fir at about 80 ft tall each drag if not too limb locked or behind to many stumps.  Thats a pretty heavy haul but can be done at the right angle.  and those are pretty heavy trees in general.  The "Big Dogs" one at a time or bucked to log length.  But those are 2-2.5 ton single logs limbed, and come out pretty easy.

Offline Banjo picker

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2017, 03:13:51 PM »
Cool video.  Banjo
Cooks AC 36--Prentice 210C--Morgan edger--Kubota M7040 with loader--Case 580 K with extendahoe--Case 850C dozer--Int 1700 series twin cylinder dump/log/flatbed truck--logging arch--2 logrite mill sp.--Cat claw sharpening system--And a bulldog to make sure it all stays here.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2017, 11:38:59 PM »
How much can you pull up at a time?  That's a completely relative question based on your equipment.


I dont know yet.  I was eventually able to do this with a 1400lb garden tractor and 2000lb atv winch.  I think an 18k dozer and 20 ton winch should do what im asking well enough.








Big lesson was the higher you set the pulley the easier the log came in but the easier the machine wheelies so the pulley had to go forward as it went up.  Traction was never a problem but front ballast was so i built a grapple to also carry a short log while skidding.



Offline starmac

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2017, 12:03:31 AM »
We have a couple of pretty good sized equipment auctions here every summer. This summer a cummins powered 667 clark cable rig that ran well and was clean and straight went for 3500 bucks. I was not interested init, so didn't go further into checking it out, but something like that with some life left would be a money maker for some of you guys.
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Offline mike_belben

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2017, 12:09:54 AM »
They bring 7-12k here.  Love to have but its not in my cards for the foreseeable future.

Offline starmac

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2017, 05:45:24 AM »
Mike, that was the cheapest I have seen one here, but there is not a very good market for logging gear here either, nor does many want a line machine. If it would have had a grapple on it, I would have checked it out a little better. If I had of known it wasn't going to bring any more than that I would have checked it out anyway, and built a fire fighting rig out of it if nothing else. Ofcoarse, if I would have bid on it, it would broke records on the selling price. lol
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Offline thecfarm

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2017, 06:56:01 AM »
mike,DanG.you got some nice land there. Some hills but even ones.  ;D  No rocks!! That little tractor would get a work out in Chesterville.  :D I have little knolls,big knolls,wet hole,big rocks.It's a challenge to get a road through it all at time. I have main roads,but branch off from them and have to figure out the best way to get around everything.
I just put one in and that took some rock hauling to fill in the wet hole and fill in between the rocks that was sticking up about 6 inches. I thought it was done,but one place I don't like after I came across a few times,4-5 buckets of rocks will make me happy.
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Offline ehp

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2017, 08:16:59 AM »
that's pretty much the ground I have been cutting all winter and big oak , you guys will laugh but I cut 10 big oak a day and do quite well at that . Pretty much the first 30 feet of tree is high grade . Its tough but once you learn how to get those big trees up the grade it starts getting abit easier

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2017, 09:16:57 AM »
Those videos were where i built the tractor in massachusetts years ago.  The land was a patch of woods the city owned and forgot about, i kept it clean so people always had room to dump.more trash.

During wet winter, the little tractor is crippled here in tennessee clay where everything is off camber.  If you manage to get started you eventually slide off sideways and get pinned into something then cant get anywhere.

Offline longtime lurker

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2017, 05:08:25 PM »
Please dont mount the winch on top of the dozer or you will die.

Well maybe not die, but you will be devoting more of your time to putting it track side down then you planned on. 31's are funny critters on that little fixed track frame. They hold and hold with your ass like a limpet on the seat but with no diagonals and equaliser bar to level them they just kinda lean over at angles that make you wonder how its still on its feet. Quite stable but when the go they fall hard and fast and theres no moment of warning where you might have saved it digging the blade tip in quick.
 

   and you'll be able to find that oil leak with some daylight in there for sure.

Mount the winch in the traditional manner. It'll help keep your Center of Gravity low. It will actually improve your balance front to back on that machine.
Build yourself an arch like Riwakas post had. That is exactly the way we did similar country around here. It works and its as safe as anything hill logging can be.
(the reason they snapped them off with the winch in vid was because you dont want to be in there sawing with cables hooked up, and you dont want them falling with cables not hooked up lest they slide down the hill and be lost BTW)

You arent chasing skyline volumes. Instead of thinking double drum if you've got a few logs to come up in one place all you need is a pulley mounted below your face, a coil of rope, and one of those man portable capstan winches with the little gas motor. " spectra is all you need for a messenger line and its a whole lot easier to live with then wire.
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Offline Puffergas

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #32 on: December 31, 2017, 07:39:23 PM »
Mike_belben, sounds like a hydro. I was surprised how well your brakes held when winching in the log nice JD 140 ! !



Yes, I corrected the rear tire direction.
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Offline mike_belben

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #33 on: January 01, 2018, 11:18:48 PM »
I was thinking i recognized your sig from somewhere.  Ive seen your gasifier machine around.. Maybe youtube or MTF.  Pretty neat.  Did quite a bit of reading on gasification but got sidetracked from ever trying it.  Have done lots of veggie power, veggie heat, stoves and so forth.

Ive just finally gotten to watch all the videos, the dude in the linkbelt lasso-ing that tong was incredible.   Thanks to all who posted, lot to think about.




So heres the best winch i have, and the obvious reason why rear mount will be very difficult.  That hyd motor would push the winch so far back.  And then id be jamming limbs and slash up in between, snap the motor mount or fittings etc.  Im just not willing to deal with that thing blocking me every time i have to adjust brakes or get at batteries.   I do have another much smaller hyd winch with easier mounting that may work out for rear mount, but no freespool.  I also came up with a little better front pulley boom that could pretty much stay on and not take any setup, just put the blade down and feed out some line.  It wouldnt be quite as tall however. 

Im not really that convinced a winch on the roof will cause too much trouble with stability.  My forklift is narrower and sinks easier yet ive operated it on the same ground with about 10k on the forks at 8 to 10ft high and not flopped it yet.  Im ontop a big plateau.  30 miles in any direction and youre in steep steep country but up here ontop its mostly rolling terrain with furrows cut by ions of drainage off the plateau.  Stay out of the furrow/ravine/gulch/bluff/hollar/whathaveyou and its not too bad.   

I do own this 4pt pin on backhoe that looks like it would go right onto the case 450 loader which came with a factory extendahoe as pictured previously.  The factory hoe with bucket works fine and removes very easy.  I dont intend to do anything except adding a manual thumb to that unit.



This massey hoe however is kinda up for whatever surgery suits my needs, i dont have a bucket for it anyhow.  The loader is still in mass and the hoe is here in tennessee so ive not ever gotten to line them up, but if the mounts can work ive intended to set it up as a stumping attachment to go onback the 450.  Thats the job i get asked to do more than any other, and always have to turn down, D31 is too small for stumping.  But a root shear to snip and loosen around the stump and then the loader bucket or grapple fork to curl em out would be pretty efficient and keep hours off the undercarriage.  The proportion of the drawing didnt come out right but you get the picture.   




Meanwhile, im watching yoder vids and seeing that the swing function is pretty handy to get the log piled off to the side out of your way once it crests the landing.  Figured maybe something like this could work well.



 The tractor is obviously just a self propelled power unit for the yoderhoe.  Grapple not really necessary, a foot plate would be fine so that the stick serves as a stabilizer leg to resist tipping.  Wouldnt be hard to anchor the bucket to a stump either.   If the hydraulics werent strong enough to keep the mast up a chain could be clevised from the winch end to the cab roof.  Whether dual drum with a carriage or single, i dunno.  Didnt cost anything to draw it in there. 

The winch post would be an easy bolt/pin on to the massey stick's pivot gusset plates.  A sling from the forklift or bobcat would make putting winch on or off pretty straight forward. 

Offline 47sawdust

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #34 on: January 02, 2018, 06:45:36 AM »
I think I would follow LongtimeLurker's advice and use an arch behind the dozer with the winch mounted in the traditional way.
 Here in Vermont that set-up was used a lot and arches still come up for sale on CL,Not A difficult build either.
 I enjoy your posts and hope you come up with a safe and affordable approach that works well for you.

 I can see the gears going in your brain all the way up here,my wife would think we're related,

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Offline teakwood

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #35 on: January 02, 2018, 06:55:46 AM »
X2. Although i don't know your markets, i can't imagine such an arch to be expensive

Offline TKehl

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #36 on: January 02, 2018, 09:04:55 AM »
Anyone ever seen a log arch winched down over a hill?

Seen it, but haven't done it... yet.  Smaller arch than what has been discussed.  The kind of thing a guy with a stick welder and some scrap metal could build.   ;)

http://timbergreenforestry.com/page234.html
http://timbergreenforestry.com/page235.html

When I build one, I will make it a little bigger with mobile home or steel tires and put a removable dolly wheel in front to help steer it downhill.  Think like the front dolly wheel(s) with tongue of a bar type hay rake.
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Offline Jeff

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #37 on: January 02, 2018, 10:59:43 AM »
Anyone ever seen a log arch winched down over a hill?

Seen it, but haven't done it... yet.  Smaller arch than what has been discussed.  The kind of thing a guy with a stick welder and some scrap metal could build.   ;)

http://timbergreenforestry.com/page234.html
http://timbergreenforestry.com/page235.html

When I build one, I will make it a little bigger with mobile home or steel tires and put a removable dolly wheel in front to help steer it downhill.  Think like the front dolly wheel(s) with tongue of a bar type hay rake.
The arch in the links given was a Future Forestry Arch, Future forestry arches ARE Logrite arches now. Logrite bought the arch line several years ago from Mark Havel.
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Offline mike_belben

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #38 on: January 02, 2018, 11:47:06 AM »
Well, id love to have a normal forestry winch in the normal forestry spot, but ill say it again, i really cant do it with this one.  It would have a fairlead 4feet behind the machine and would wheelie.

Putting an oem winch onto this would cost more than i can come up with.  Selling this to buy a factory winch machine with 6 way, full cab and good undercarriage would result in an even bigger deficit, so im stuck with what ive got for now.  It'll take a few pieces of iron, some bolts, a valve and hoses (all of which i have) to try it up topside.  If it dont work i just take it off.  I'll have no trouble admitting it didnt work out.


I do have a pretty suitable collection of stuff to build a walk behind steerable arch, pallet jack style, to dether down on a cable but i still need to be on a cable so thats a second project ontop the first.  Plus it'd require two guys to operate. 

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #39 on: January 02, 2018, 11:52:05 AM »
That RC arch is pretty epic.  Im impressed.

 


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