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Author Topic: Small scale rope high lead logging system  (Read 2092 times)

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Offline Quebecnewf

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Small scale rope high lead logging system
« on: December 25, 2017, 05:46:51 PM »


I am looking at trying to develop a small scale high lead rope logging system. It would use something similar to this but a little more robust as the main component .

My plan . Run a high line up through a narrow straight trail in the woods. Line anchored up in a tree at each end of the trail. Use winch to tension this line and tie it of tight. Your second line runs up through the traveler ( pic) . You would then cut logs all along the trail and use this device along with the winch to gather and pull turns to your landing.

There are these new high strength ropes which means you could run the system on 5/16 " rope. If you need to do bigger logs step the rope up to 3/8 or 7/16"

Wish I could draw this up because a pic is worth a thousand words.


Those new ropes are pretty amazing . This is the large freighter passenger ferry that runs down the coast here. They now tie her up with ropes that are about 3/4" .

Anyone out there doing this or any ideas on it throw in your comments

quebecnewf



Online dgdrls

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Re: Small scale rope high lead logging system
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2017, 08:25:02 PM »
I have seen the Wyssens  cable systems,  what are you thinking for a carriage and winch??

D

Offline treeslayer2003

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Re: Small scale rope high lead logging system
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2017, 09:17:07 PM »
i bet that rope is several times the cost of cable

Offline dustintheblood

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Re: Small scale rope high lead logging system
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2017, 11:24:58 PM »
We did that sort of thing a couple of years ago, and it worked like a charm.  I posted pics and a description of things along the way. 

Will try to dig up the thread for you
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Offline dustintheblood

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Offline Iwawoodwork

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Re: Small scale rope high lead logging system
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2017, 11:54:22 PM »
Oregon  State University Forestry Dept in Corvallis, Oregon has done a lot of work with the high strength rope in place of cable, for logging, they also have their own logging side using small yarding machines, they work with the logging industry, might be worth a contact

Offline Quebecnewf

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Re: Small scale rope high lead logging system
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2017, 06:32:15 AM »
Found it....

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,79434.0.html

That is exactly what I am thinking of trying only with rope . I am quite sure it will work as well. Mine will be maybe a higher skyline ( I think ) . I cannot use cable just to heavy and I really don,t need that much strength.

With the rig I plan to use ( some version of what you see in pic) I will have double the pulling power has the logs are being pulled to the main line. Half the speed of course . Then once the logs come tight to the main traveler the speed will come back to normal speed with regular pulling power. By this time the ends at least , of the logs will be off the ground and you will be just tail dragging , this means I should be able to do turns of 5 or 6 logs I think. If that proves out correct I can then extend the line further because I am doing more on each turn.

I am real interested in this high strength rope but cost might drive me to use regular ( crab fishing ) rope. Lots of that here and while it might not be as good as the special rope I am sure it will do the job .

How high was your line of the ground would you say ?

Quebecnewf

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Small scale rope high lead logging system
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2017, 07:27:03 AM »
Great post Dustintheblood.  I'd love to learn more, looking at the gallery right now and appreciate it.

Offline Quebecnewf

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Re: Small scale rope high lead logging system
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2017, 09:04:56 AM »
Great post Dustintheblood.  I'd love to learn more, looking at the gallery right now and appreciate it.

I looked through the  gallery as well. There was one small diagram that I could see in fingernail size but would not show full size on my computer. Not sure why.

I have rewatched the video a few times and got a lot of good insight there.

Where in eastern Ontario are you located. When are you going to try this system again. Might be in that area in the coming weeks and would love to see it run.

Quebecnewf

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Small scale rope high lead logging system
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2017, 08:42:25 PM »
http://www.baileysonline.com/Arborist-Tree-Care/Arborist-Rope/Tree-Rigging-Bull-Ropes-Double-Braid/BlackMAX-5-8-Double-Braid-Red-Bull-Rope.axd


Thats about the most strength youll find for a dollar a foot.  Bull ropes tend to be pretty tough too.  Splices are a challenge however.  Amsteel and similar are much easier to splice but $$$

Offline mike_belben

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Offline Quebecnewf

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Re: Small scale rope high lead logging system
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2017, 11:16:04 PM »
Very interesting ropes. For my winch plans the 3/8 " tenex would more than meet the needs , I think My main concern is running snatch blocks up and down this rope with a lot of deflection pulls how will it last with regard to chaffing.

We use , for lack of a better word ( poly rope ) the names are endless depending on the dealer . These ropes usually last one winter of logging . They are pretty cheap and we are not real careful about rubbing them on a tree or two .

I am thinking the main line will be under a lot of tension , will have a lot of back and forth with a lot of strain being put on it by the traveler ( two snatch blocks hanging ) so I want to spend good money on that rope but not have it wear out in one season by just the snatch blocks running back and forth on it .

Another problem is that I work only in winter . The lines cannot absorb moisture , or if they do it must not affect their performance.

Sounds like I'm asking a lot .

Quebecnewf 


Offline mike_belben

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Re: Small scale rope high lead logging system
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2017, 02:19:45 AM »
What species, length and diameter logs are you pulling?
How steep is the terrain?
Is it a rocky, snaggy stumpfarm or pretty smooth? 


Arborist rope is very purpose built, some for their roundness in a climbing device, or burn resistance due to friction. Some for lightness and ease of splice and some for brute strength.  Its really incredible stuff actually.

You could probably get a pretty good idea by looking up sampson or yale cordages recommendations or calling to ask a tech what style they would recommend for your project. 

This may be counter-intuitive since amsteel and tennex style ropes are kinda badged as the hot ticket winch line for their strength per diameter and being light, you can fit a lot on a small drum... But I think id be inclined to avoid them.  Its very easy to fish a fid up into them and yank out whole strands.  Sticks and thorns might tear them up pretty fast. 

Otoh, the double braid bull ropes i have are like armor plating, the outer jacket is super tough and hard to pierce, also hard to splice so plan on using knots.  Im picturing a good bull rope lasting a long time over gnarly terrain.  Mine still look new after years. 

Sun is the worst enemy of any rope.  I cant really say how bad an issue of being soaked then freezing will be, my ropes live in trash bags until theyre used during decent weather then back in.


Offline Quebecnewf

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Re: Small scale rope high lead logging system
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2017, 04:08:42 PM »
Just thinking about your comments on the different types of rope.

My high line if it's rigged good should not be touching or dragging on the ground . I am thinking the Tennex would be good for that line.

Then a good quality commercial ( crab line ) rope for the pulling rope. Try this set up first and if I have good results maybe switch as needed to a good bull rope .

My logs are mostly med to small softwood . Ground is rough but not real abrasive . No sand and sharp rock to speak of.

Looking for a Canadian supplier of the Tennex Rope now.

Quebecnewf

Offline dustintheblood

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Re: Small scale rope high lead logging system
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2017, 04:33:54 PM »
Great post Dustintheblood.  I'd love to learn more, looking at the gallery right now and appreciate it.

Thanks!

It was setup and used in a couple of different sensitive or difficult sites, so there's nothing to show any more than memories (and the nice cedar siding on the barn from the trees we sliced and diced).

I'm not too far from Kingston

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Offline mike_belben

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Re: Small scale rope high lead logging system
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2017, 09:48:10 PM »
Best thing about tennex other than being cheap, is you can splice it with a coathanger in a few minutes and have eyelets looped so tight that your pulleys would roll right over.. Incase you had to lengthen it.

Post some pics when you get started.  Im interested in how it pans out for you.

Offline roger 4400

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Re: Small scale rope high lead logging system
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2017, 09:32:13 AM »
Hi Paul.
I know  NOVA JACK sells some polyester and some kevlar rope that are ( I think) 8000 pounds resistant. They have them in 600 ft rolls .I bought 150 ft years ago it was $1 per ft. I used them on my Farmi winch if my wire is not long enough. See you. Roger
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Offline thecfarm

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Re: Small scale rope high lead logging system
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2017, 11:15:28 AM »
$1 a foot. That's a buy. Cable for my winch is $150 and that's only 130 feet. Use to be 150. Kinda like sugar,ice cream,coffee. Cut down the weight of the product,but keep the price the same.
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Offline elk42

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Re: Small scale rope high lead logging system
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2017, 02:53:11 PM »
The strongest rope that I have use was Dyneema 12 strand single braid 1/2" average tensile strength 34,000 lbs. Tenex 1/2  12 strand single braid average tensile strength 11,800 lbs.  I get mine from Alariobro.com 1/2" is about $3.00 per ft. 600ft roll is $1,385.00 . (Brand Name is SPECTRA )
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Offline Offthebeatenpath

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Re: Small scale rope high lead logging system
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2017, 11:39:20 PM »
The Amsteel Blue by Sampson or equivalent high modulus polyethylene (aka Spectra dyneema) made by other brands (there are a handful) is the best strength to weight ratio out there. But as others have mentioned, the strands can pull out. Master Pull, the company that makes off roading gear makes a line called Superline XD that  is the best thing that I have used. It is wicked expensive, but it has an dyneema core heated and stretched to make the line thinner, then it is overbraided with very tightly woven dyneema shealth. Then it's coated with some slippery waxy stuff (not sure what it is). The result is a very stiff rope that is strong and abrasion resistant. Did I mention expensive? Here's the link: http://www.masterpull.com/3-4-x-120-superline-xd-winch-line-extension-81-840-lbs/

I have many pieces of dyneema and use them as extensions that are tensioned with hand powered or capstan hoists. I have hauled lots of logs and rocks uphill and flown even more downhill. Dustintheblood's set up was a pretty great one. I primarily use short sections of wire rope and long sections of synthetic. There are infinite variations on the skyline. I have a sampling of rigging photos on my website here if anyone is interested (it is easier to post a link than attach the photos in line): https://www.obptrailworks.com/training/rigging/

One thing that I would mention to Quebecnewf is that the strength of your rope should not be based on your loads, but on your power source. Pay close attention to vector forces (lines going through blocks), dynamic loading, and most importantly, shock loading, as these can all increase the overall tension on the line by many times the power source rating.



1985 JD 440D, ASV tracked skid steer w/ winch, Fecon grapple, & various attachments, Hitachi CG-30 tracked dump truck, CanyCom S25 crawler carrier, Volvo EC35C mini-ex, Kubota 018-4 mini-ex, Cormidi 100 self loading tracked dumper, various other little trail building machines and tools...

 


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