Sawlog prices

[Keith_A]

I posted this a few minutes ago on Woodweb but would really appreciate the forest forum answer to this question also.

I am trying to get a realistic idea of what my costs would be for delivered grade 1 sawlogs as part of one of my business plans. I have looked at several of the state bulletins that show delivered sawlog costs broken down by grade and species. An example is in the central Tennessee region the latest timber bulletin says that Grade 1 White Oak is $632, Walnut is $647, and Hard Maple is $750 per MBF doyle scale. Ok I am finally to the question.  

If I am only buying perhaps 2MBF of any single species, and 4MBF total per month are these prices realistic? Will I even be able to get someone to talk to me at this kind of volume? Also if Gene is listening, What is a realistic breakdown of percentage for each grade I can expect from Grade 1 sawlogs?

I have read the article on sawlog grading in IWSM and it indicates 70-80 percent No.1 Common and better, but I was hoping for a more indepth breakdown, I.E. FAS, select, No. 1 Common and so on.

[Bibbyman]

Keith,  I can't answer most of your questions but I can tell you from our experience it has been nigh-on impossible to get loggers to bring us only grade logs.  And I'd think it would be even more difficult to get them committed to bringing only the best grade of logs of the type and consistant quantity you are expecting in your business plan.  

Loggers in my area tend to have a couple of markets and they like to take volume to them.  I've talked to many of them about getting some of their better logs but they are reluctant to separate them from the low grade.  I've even suggested that they pull them out at the log site and I'd come with my truck and buy them on the spot.  But they felt that would be too much of an interruption to their operation and would end up alienating their volume log buyers (whom we both suspect are pulling the grade logs out and selling them to another mill or log broker).

It may be possible to contact a mill that is sawing low grade pallet and blocking material and see if you could buy high grade logs from them.  Or maybe go to a log broker and do the same. But I'd suspect you'd have to pay better than market price for them.

[Jeff]

I think using any of these average prices paid as the basis for a business plan would be ill advised they are industry average figures that hardly apply to the individual.

As a Northern Hardwood sawyer for 22 years, I know that the individual log determines the grade yield. The grades may differ wildly depending on every little variable.  The tables and statistics are averages, and by basing business decisions on those, and not real experience with the local timber, markets, soil types, (Mineral can kick the hell out of ya) etc, in my mind would be fool hardy.

You may find a logger or provider that will set aside the small amount of logs that you require, but unless he's a bud, you will be paying well above market to get them. It's usually just not worth the time or bother.  Our woods crew would not do it.

[Tillaway]

It may be possible to contact a mill that is sawing low grade pallet and blocking material and see if you could buy high grade logs from them.  Or maybe go to a log broker and do the same. But I'd suspect you'd have to pay better than market price for them.

Bibbyman has the answer.  A friend and coworker of mine was a log buyer for a mill in SE Ohio.  Thier mill specialized in cutting only low grade logs.  They would sell the high grade logs out of the yard to a mill that specialized cutting them.  No, they did not pay more for the logs since they got them at low grade price.  Every mill / sort yard operater has a few logs they can't use delivered to them, you have to network with these operations and find out who wants what.