The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:




TimberKing Sawmills




Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Forest Products Industry Insurance


Norwood Industries Inc.


Sawmill & Woodlot Magazine



Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

Woodshax Outdoor Vending Solutions

FARMA


Council Tool

Baker Products

Forestry Forum Tool Box

Author Topic: Hillbilly Deluxe  (Read 1263 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
Hillbilly Deluxe
« on: November 18, 2017, 09:50:58 PM »
So its my first winter selling firewood in tennessee.  every seasoned piece i had went in a few days after one cold night.  So i need a way to rapidly dry the stuff thats coming off the splitter now.  I had a bunch of nice plywood warping in the shed from a project that didnt happen, and a neighbor gave me a pile of barn board so i started framing this kiln shed. 



 

Its got a lot of bracing to keep it square in order to hold a full cord.  I will be loading two caged pallets of wood at a time.  The 4 corners are doubled roughcut 2x6 and theres 8 vertical pieces of oak pounded under the joists to prevent sagging under the weight.   Interior dimension is 4x7 with a 5ft doorway height.  The tall front overhang will eventually become one half of an A-frame carport sort of open air work station to keep the splitter under. 



The heat comes from a rocket stove that will burn the scraps off the splitter as well as a bunch of hickory slabwood i get for free, which burns very hot.  The floor is a pallet rack wire grate to allow full airflow. 


This is a test run to burn off the paint and rust before i set the stove in place.  Its just a propane tank cut open and a bunch of 8" stove pipe i had around.  The entire thing was built without a trip to the store actually, just junk i had.






A rocket stove (its just a nickname for any sidedraft stove.. They make a rocket engine sort of noise from the draft suction) is much much easier to light with a tee at the base of the riser.    Load stove, toss in a napkin under the riser, light it to create draft, block or cap the tee and light the fuel chamber.  Itll take right off.   This will get all braced up after i figure out siding, its got some guy wire for now.  The top section is galvy because i ran out out of black pipe.  But its fine.  The stack temp up there hasnt broke 220*f even running the other end orange.  I havent got the money for roofing yet, tarp will have to do for now.




Firepot on the other side.  Stovepipe is held stationary and insulated by a mix of sharp sand and clay.  The pot slips right off to dump the ash, and also that first section is most likely to burn out so its for safety, better to be encased in clay than to let a flame spit out the side.




There is a box fan behind the hickory stack.  The plan was for it to draw warm air away from the firebox, up through the fuel wood and in to the drying chamber.  With the stove doors closed it seems like the fire's CFM demand is too great for this to work right, im still experimenting.






It would be even better if i could get modest airflow without using electric by getting the fire draft to flow across the wood stack.  Only down side is that would be constantly pulling in cool outside air that id have to heat. This might also increase humidity on wet rainy winter days.   Not sure but i'll consider suggestions. 

Thanks


Offline barbender

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5258
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Deer River MN
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hillbilly Deluxe
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2017, 10:50:12 PM »
I like it. Necessity is the mother of invention👍🏼
Too many irons in the fire

Online starmac

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1489
  • Location: Fairbanks Ak.
  • I'm new!
Re: Hillbilly Deluxe
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2017, 10:53:24 PM »
Just curious, what moisture content is your goal. We have to be down to 20% to legally burn wood here.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Online mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
Re: Hillbilly Deluxe
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2017, 01:56:46 AM »
Dry enough to please the customer.  A little sizzle is okay but it cant be bubbling water out the end grain when they toss it in the stove.  At $50 a rick im not gonna go crazy.


Thanks 'bender

Online mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
Re: Hillbilly Deluxe
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2017, 02:05:18 AM »

Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2119
  • Location: Bishop, GA
  • Gender: Male
  • Author of "Sawing Hardwood Lumber"
    • Book on Sawing hardwood Lumber
Re: Hillbilly Deluxe
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2017, 12:26:20 PM »
The smaller the pieces, the faster they will dry.  The lighter-weight species also dry faster.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Online mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
Re: Hillbilly Deluxe
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2017, 08:42:40 PM »
Thats about what i figured.  I spent a while sealing things up better today and put my first sopping wet batch in.  Already its showing a lot of promise. 

Online mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
Re: Hillbilly Deluxe
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2017, 09:14:08 PM »
So i built an intake concentric that brings in combustion air from the outside and scavenges heat off the stack.  Its the rusty tee in this pic.  Not a tremendous flow yet due to leaky structure but the air coming in is hot atleast.   






Im hoping to do without running a fan.  Fresh off the splitter, It takes about 2 days in the kiln to get wood sellable.  The ends start checking and if split open theres no obvious wetness in the center.  Itd probably take 4 days to really get dry.  Im gonna continue insulating and see about a simple coil condensor to speed things up.

Offline barbender

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5258
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Deer River MN
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hillbilly Deluxe
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2017, 12:15:00 AM »
I'm inspired, I may have to copy this once you get the bugs worked out of the "hillbilly special"😊👍🏼
Too many irons in the fire

Online mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
Re: Hillbilly Deluxe
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2017, 12:59:11 AM »
Right off the bat id say make it pole barn style with posts in the dirt, or posts lagged to a micro slab or piers.  Ive nudged it out of position twice in two days! 

V2.0 would incorporate anchored position and a little extra interior width.  I didnt really have any plans, and didnt have enough long boards when i started framing but was eager to just build something.  Pallet racking on slab would make a good skeleton to have started with, then frame a pole barn off of/incorporated into that.  Dry wood in the kiln and store it under the lean-to.

My next gripe would be short duration burn times with that small tank, and struggling to get the tremendous heat in the fire room to travel over into the drying room.  The suction of the fires draft is overwhelming to normal flow of heat rise, unless i use the fan.  Im trying to make money, not spend it. 

Will be experimenting with exterior air intake tubes to the firepot but im not expecting miracles, leaving the firebox doors cracked doesnt seem to do much. Subsequent changes may increase the drying room temp but at what tradeoff in circulation over the wood baskets from the concentric? 

More test and tune as junk/funds allow. 

Online mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
Re: Hillbilly Deluxe
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2017, 09:23:26 AM »
Welp, a condensor is gonna have to happen one way or another.  Its a frosty morning and the whole interior is drenched in droplets. 

Online thecfarm

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 25649
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Chesterville,Maine
  • Gender: Male
  • If I don't do it,it don't get done
Re: Hillbilly Deluxe
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2017, 09:27:04 AM »
You got some good ideas there. Them pallets just about fit.  :o  If I was loading it,I would make it bigger the first time. Meaning I would hit a side and move it.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Online starmac

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1489
  • Location: Fairbanks Ak.
  • I'm new!
Re: Hillbilly Deluxe
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2017, 01:35:30 PM »
I have seen the little heat powered fans that sit on top of woodstoves and they actually work. Some of the guys on here may have some ideas to use one on a larger scale to have some air flow.
I would almost bet there would be a passive way to take care of the condensation with heat and vents in the right location.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Online mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
Re: Hillbilly Deluxe
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2017, 02:43:28 PM »
Well somewhere around here i have a ryobi drill i dont use anymore that i intend to strip for the motor and put on a trolling motor battery which would ve easily kept up by a cheap solar panel.   The motor will go on a little plastic chinese drill pump that uses garden hose.  Id adapt that to some baseboard mounted to the wall near ceiling with a piece of sloped gutter underneath to collect drips.  The pump would just circulate bucket water, its plenty cold to condense.  A ground loop buried down a few feet would work for a summer heat exchanger. 

Before i do all that im gonna whip up a 100lb propane tank burner with a top draft line that sucks from the drying chamber only.  My hope is that this alone provides sufficent heat, draft and dehumidification.   In a perfect world the waste heat off the burner body will heat a shop interior space while the draft pipe heats the kiln and maybe a water coil.

Im fixin to scale it up some day.  Cogen baby, 3phase turbine ftw.



Offline thechknhwk

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1026
  • Age: 41
  • Location: St. Charles, MI
  • Gender: Male
    • Story of the Trees
Re: Hillbilly Deluxe
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2017, 05:52:05 PM »
I have always been fascinated by these rocket stove things.  I like your project and good luck with it.

Online mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
Re: Hillbilly Deluxe
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2017, 06:16:52 PM »
They have their strong points.  One of the stoves i built runs on sawdust and waste vegetable oil fed by a variable speed auger from a feed hopper.  It burns orange in the flame chamber and averages 500F on the entire body radiating into the space, but the flue exit temp is around 200F.  Heat whole shop on a 5 gallon bucket of trash.

Conventional stoves waste vastly more BTU up the chimney.  600F on the stove and 500F up the flue is pretty typical.

Online mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
Re: Hillbilly Deluxe
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2017, 02:48:07 PM »
Can anyone comment on the nature of suspended airborne water particles?

In the case of my little hodgepodge heater box here without any fans or substantial air flow... is water most likely to be found evenly dispursed, up high or down low? 

Offline TKehl

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 797
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Sedalia, MO
  • Gender: Male
  • Certified Contrarian
    • Kehlhof Ranch
Re: Hillbilly Deluxe
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2017, 08:48:46 AM »
The vapor should be somewhat evenly distributed as it sounds like you've hit saturation.  However, the air and vapor low in the chamber should be coolest and most readily condensed.  (I say should as the heat pipe in the bottom could throw this out of whack.

With that said, why not vent off some of the air instead?  The cold air when heated can carry much more moisture.  When it can't carry more (saturation) vent it off.  (Something like a computer cooling fan etc.)  Sounds like you've got plenty of wood to keep it warm. 

Another thought would be to pipe the cold air going to the furnace draft through the drying chamber.  The cold pipe should condense some vapors. 

Last thought would be a hybrid.  Vent off chamber air and let cold air in, but through a baffle system (old tin or duct) such that it would drop out some condensate from the temperature difference.

Nice thing about condensation is it gives up some latent heat from the phase change.  But running with saturated air could be like having the throttle pegged in first gear.  Fresh air in the chamber may be like shifting to 2nd.

Thoughts and theory from a physics geek.   :)  I have not tried this at home... yet.   ;D
Lucas 6-13+slabber, Mr. Sawmill bandmill, orange chainsaws, JD SSL, Case Backhoe, farm tractors, trailers, and 150ish acres of trees.  Fledgling woodshop with CNC router, laser engraver, Woodmaster 712, and a Berlin 108 moulder (project).  Oh, and a lovely (patient) wife and four offbearers.

Online mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
Re: Hillbilly Deluxe
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2017, 04:55:08 PM »
Well,  venting is low on my list of desires because im hoping to get this thing developed to where it can achieve the legal heat treatment temps for selling state forest bundles.  I think its 140 or 160 for an hour.  Uninsulated and with the tiny burner i was only getting the wood up to 80 and the chamber probably to 100 overall, but definitely hotter down below. 


I insulated much of the interior and built a dramatically different burner that will probably change things enough to throw all my current data out the window.  I will say i burned fresh split wood after 2 days in the prior configuration, so it has some merrit. 

Ideally, i will get this thing dialed into a backyard heat treat oven anyone can build from junk and run on sticks... Then sell plans for a reasonable fee.  My kids are hungry and im getting tired of winters in a camper.

Offline TKehl

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 797
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Sedalia, MO
  • Gender: Male
  • Certified Contrarian
    • Kehlhof Ranch
Re: Hillbilly Deluxe
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2017, 07:34:06 PM »
I can understand that, but a sliding or hinged vent that could be shut when it stops looking like a steam locomotive could be just the ticket.
Lucas 6-13+slabber, Mr. Sawmill bandmill, orange chainsaws, JD SSL, Case Backhoe, farm tractors, trailers, and 150ish acres of trees.  Fledgling woodshop with CNC router, laser engraver, Woodmaster 712, and a Berlin 108 moulder (project).  Oh, and a lovely (patient) wife and four offbearers.

 


Powered by EzPortal