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Author Topic: Wallenstein Tractor Winch  (Read 2480 times)

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Offline crazy4saws

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Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« on: November 14, 2017, 06:02:48 PM »
Hey everyone, been awhile since Ive posted.

In the last 6 months Ive purchased 60 acres, mostly wooded, and a low hours(300hrs) 2008 3240L Kubota with several attachments, some new some used. Staying busy cutting firewood, clearing brush, and enjoying the land when Im not working away from home which has been to often. The C4B project is on the back burner as other priorities have taken its place, but Im sure Ill finish it....some day lol.

My question is regarding tractor winches. Ive been looking at FARMI, and Wallenstein and so far Im leaning towards Wallenstein. The features and price seem better. FF members seem to have good experience with these Wallenstein. Im looking at the FX66 or the FX85. Is the 85 too large for a 32 HP tractor? Will it be too much for it? The purpose of the winch is primarily for pulling out firewood. However if Im cutting dead ash and there are pallet logs then I would also like to skid those out and sell them.

The salesmen I spoke to stated that the FX are meant to winch logs in towards the tractor, and not necessary skid the logs out of the woods once at the tractor. The FXP, is meant to skid the logs out of the woods, but the fxp is merely a plate without a winch. From what Ive read on here most people use the FX to winch and skid the logs. Is this correct?


Thanks guys


Offline thecfarm

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2017, 10:07:48 PM »
I really can't answer your questions,I don't have that kind.
But I did go look at them. That fxp would be a bother for me to use. Can't get the logs up in air too much and only 2 at a time is not much wood at 6 inches across. That front ends goes up 6 inches,over a rock or a stump,the rear end comes down that far too and the logs are dragging right in the dirt. But would work if someone could not afford a winch.
First thing I would do is add 4 more chokers. I run 6 on my Norse. I haul out mostly small stuff now. Sometimes I may only use one,but most times all 6 are used. Than buy some 4 foot chains,with hooks. I finally made some up a few years back. So much easier. With the 6 inch wood I don't have to run 5 feet of chain through a chocker. All the companies like to hang 8 foot chains on a winch. You won't be hauling out too many logs at once needing a 8 foot chain. Kinda like the chainsaw companies. Put a 18 inch bar on a small saw.They also showed a chain holder on the back of the winch.  ::) :o This was right in the way that a log could hit the saw. When I haul out big stuff,they stay where they belong. That small stuff seems to bend stuff up sometimes.  ;)
Don't know if yoy have room for the saw here?

 

 

Than gas and oil on the other side.

 

  
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline teakwood

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2017, 01:21:41 AM »
isn't a FX85 a winch with 8.5to pull capacity? if so you 32hp tractor is way too small. those winch have some weight and i think for a 8to winch you need around a 100hp tractor.

A neighbor teak company is using 8.5to igland winches on their 135hp masseys and i have seen those tractors fronttires in the air more than a few times.

Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2017, 05:47:57 AM »
I have a 1200 works well, Can bring up a log and it locks in place, two ropes on it one pulls one lock the cable.
 

  

 
2008 LT40 super,2008 edger, Cat telahandler, JD 5410 And can cut up to 45' long
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Offline peterpaul

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2017, 06:19:02 AM »
I have an FX 85 on a Kubota L4330 and love it.  I do not believe that the winch is too much for your tractor.  The main thing is safety, i.e. stay up hill from the tractor and winch and most importantantly pull in line with the tractor NOT to the side.  A self releasing snacth block is extremely helpful allowing you to pull a log so that the tractor does pull the log in line with the tractor.  I purchased this a snatch block, https://www.labonville.com/Self-Releasing-4-Snatch-Block_p_93.html  ,not cheap but with a endless sling I can put the sling around a tree and not damage the tree.  I disagree that the the FX85 cannot be used for skidding logs.  Call Wallenstien directly and they will answer all your questions, I did and found them to be very friendly and helpful during my decision making process.   
Woodmizer LT15, Kubota 4330 GST, Wallenstein FX 85, Timberwolf TW6, homemade firewood conveyor

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2017, 09:49:47 AM »
With smaller tractors, look at the weight of the winch also. One reason, besides price, I went with a Norse 290 at 320lbs. I figure that's 100lbs more wood I can lift, and more I can pull. More pull power is more pull on the top link too. Using a larger winch with 3/8 cable, I appreciate the 5/16 on mine.
1994 WoodMizer LT40G18. 69 acres mixed wood. 1952 ford tractor, Norse 290 winch, studed Norse ice chains. 45-66DT Fiat.

Offline DDW_OR

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2017, 12:03:29 PM »
I have a Farmi JL501, 11,000# pull
came with a quick release pulley and 4 choker chains

 
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Offline crazy4saws

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2017, 01:26:00 PM »
Thanks for all the input and ideas for set up and storage guys. I think I've settled on the fx85. There is a wallenstein dealer close to me. They have one in stock so I'll look at it this Saturday and possibly bring it home.i think the self releasing snatch block would be a wise investment aswell.

The 85 comes with a wire choker, and then 2 key slots, I'm assuming for chain chockers. What's your choker set look like? I know some like chains more than wire. My experience has only been with wire. Any recommendations?

Offline g_man

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2017, 01:35:57 PM »
Crazy4Saws, if you can - find a more knowledgeable sales guy to help you out. Tractor forestry winches are all made to both winch and skid out logs. You need to find a winch that physically fits your tractor 3ph well. One that is to big (high) will have lift arm attachments that are high. You won't have enough lift left on the 3ph to get it very far off the ground. Also a small tractor doesn't generate enough pto torque to drive a big winch to it's rated pulling capacity. So if you put a 10,000 lb winch on a 30 hp tractor you would be lucky to get 7000 lb of pull. Your tractor weight also is important - if you want to pull 8000 lbs you better have a heavy tractor to hold it back. Yes the winch digs in to help hold the force. Unless that is, the ground is frozen or packed snow/ice, you are on ledge, you are on a thick heavy root mass, or there is a thick duff layer of loose woods dirt. A good sales guy should know all this stuff for your locality.

gg

Offline DDW_OR

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2017, 02:12:09 PM »
G_man is correct!!!

get a winch sized to your tractor.

you can always use more pulleys to increase pulling power
two pulleys = 3 line pull = three times the pulling power
example: my 11k winch with 3 line pull = 33k pull
WARNING, with that much pull you can bend or rip metal

i used the 3 line pull to move a MASSIVE root ball, tree was 4 foot at ground level, ball was over 7 feet diameter.
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Offline crazy4saws

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2017, 05:30:08 PM »
Gman, Ive been following your kubota thread, lots of good idea in that. Good points in your comments. The sales rep recommended the 66, I opted for the 85 because it had the receiver already built into it, and the figured a larger winch wouldn't hurt. Both 85 and 66 are supposedly rated for 30-60 Hp. I put a call into Wallenstein this afternoon.

Thanks for input guys

Offline DDW_OR

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2017, 10:32:50 PM »
........opted for the 85 because it had the receiver already built into it, and the figured a larger winch wouldn't hurt. Both 85 and 66 are supposedly rated for 30-60 Hp. I put a call into Wallenstein this afternoon.

Thanks for input guys

if both have the same tractor rating then i would go for the receiver hitch also

will be adding a hitch to my Farmi. that way i can tow a trailer when i go for logs.

winch the logs to the landing, then load logs with pallet forks, then tow trailer to mill.
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Offline crazy4saws

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2017, 08:43:38 AM »
Spoke with wallenstein this morning. They said the fx85 will work with my tractor. Basically the 66 is an economy version of the 85. The 85 comes with a larger winch and more features. Only 20 some pounds difference. I'm thinking I'll stick with the 85. Really likenthe receiver option and other added features.

Teak wood the winch is 8500 pounds, not 8.5 tons. It would only be 4.25ton.

Offline teakwood

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2017, 03:06:53 AM »
I meant 8.5 to pulling force. a 8.5 to capacity winch would be around 2000 pounds heavy

I am sure your winch has 8500 (3.7to) pounds pulling force and would weight around 440 pounds

Offline crazy4saws

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2017, 08:01:12 PM »
Teakwood, thanks for clarification, makes sense now, and your estimate was very close for weight. 470lbs for the fx85, the fx66 is 20lb less.

Did more reading on FF then spoke with wallenstein on friday and pulled the trigger.....

  

 

It's been raining here all day so hopefully tomorrow I get it mounted. Won't be able to test it till next week as the ground is saturated with all the rain we have been getting. My beans are still waiting to be picked.

Thanks for the input everyone

 

Offline thecfarm

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2017, 08:38:49 PM »
You will like it. And then some. I use to be the chain man.  ;D My Father would drive the tractor and I would hook the chains up. And I do mean chains. We had 3-4 chains,some 12s,14s and maybe a few 16 foot chains. I would render the chains. Sometimes we could only pull 10 feet at a time. I would unhook chains as things got closer to the woods road.It was slow,but what was real slow was only able to take one at a time. Once in while we could take 2 logs,but most times only one.
I think your manual will tell you about the pull angles. Do not and I repeat,do not pull at a 45 with that winch.Move the tractor and try to keep the wire rope just about straight behind you. Lower the bucket all the way down,set your brakes and then winch. Watch out for the slash that the logs will bring towards you. Really helps to put a rolling hitch on the tree. Meaning put the hook down low,so the part of the log that was on the ground,will be on top when you winch it in.Helps out on the limbs too. This way any limbs you missed will be on top and you can cut then off now. A stub of a limb 6 inches long can really dig the ground up and makes it harder to twitch out. The rolling hitch seems to make it start easier too.I have seen my winch plow rocks and roots out of the way. Than sometimes I have to hook up to another tree and pull the log at an angle to get it too move. This is with good size logs,3 feet across too. I've see the winch move a 3 foot log easier than a 2 foot one before too. Can't understand it sometimes. I myself do not like to haul out stuff too long. Just seems harder hanging way back there. 40 feet in the most I like.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline pinefeller

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2017, 09:10:39 PM »
nice winch. in small machines (including skidders) short hitches are key. its way easier on the equipment, your woodlot wont look like an airport terminal, you wont buff up trees around corners, your less likley to flip over, plus easier to deck.....
we the willing, led by the unknowing,are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. we have done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.

Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2017, 05:44:30 AM »
Nice, Be sure to stand to the side of the rear tire so if the tree stops coming to you the tire won't run over the back of your leg.
2008 LT40 super,2008 edger, Cat telahandler, JD 5410 And can cut up to 45' long
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Offline teakwood

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2017, 06:42:19 AM »
nice! it's always exiting when you get a new "toy"

Offline g_man

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2017, 01:50:07 PM »
Now you are in business- nice winch indeed !!!  Start small, low rpm but above idle, pay attention. Until you have some experience if a log jams resist the temptation to goose it with a hard tug on the rope. Doing that may jam it worse. Go out and see what the problem is. After a while you will see the good winch paths and know what are obstacles and what you can pull thru. Have a cant hook/peavey and snatch block.

Be safe and have fun.

gg

Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2017, 05:20:54 PM »
The other thing you can do is cut the butt end of the tree at an angle instead of flat. That way the end of the tree will skip over or slide over to one side on rocks, stumps.
2008 LT40 super,2008 edger, Cat telahandler, JD 5410 And can cut up to 45' long
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Sawing since 1987

Offline crazy4saws

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2017, 04:12:11 PM »
Wow! Alot of good tips on setting the chokers and pulling in logs from everyone that posted. You are guaranteed to learn something on this site each time you visit.  Cfarm, really like the suggestion about setting the hook low, that will make getting those hidden branches cut much easier.

Ill post back after I use it, and give a quick review. Hopefully this weekend it will be dry enough to work in the woods. Again thanks for comments, suggestions and advice. Its all good stuff.

Offline crazy4saws

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2017, 10:36:28 PM »
Mounted the FX85, took measurements and cut both drive shafts a week ago. Ive used the FX85 for about 8 hours since then. It operates smoothly, has good pulling power and is a well built unit as far as I can tell. I purchased the snatch block as well and have used it more than I anticipated.

The first log I pulled was an ash about 18"DBH, full length. I dropped it in my field so the skid was short. Had a pic but the forum won't upload it. Over all I'm pleased. The lower 3 point connections are wider than the arm sockets, so the winch shifts from side to side at times. The stabilizer arms are adjusted correctly. I think I'll make bushing/spacers and post pictures. Here is one from today.

 

After running the FX85 on my 3240 kubota, I believe it's a good match and don't think it's too large. The snatch block, works well, only issue I've had was the cable slipped between the pulley and the block as I started winch. Had to loosen the pulley bolt and unlodge the cable. Not a major deal but if you don't have the right tools in the woods than it's a minor annoyance. I plan to weld a small plate to fill in the gap. I will need to bypass the seat switch on the kubota, have to be in the seat whenever operating the winch.

I'll post better pictures in the next few weeks. Next thing is to add oil and gas storage along with chainsaw storage to the tractor. Then an actual brush guard to the front and protection plates for the filters. Minor damage to the 550xp, broken brake handle, due to lack of storage on the tractor.

Switching gears figured some of you might enjoy this. It's a 1 cubic yard scraper pan, fairly small but it's working well, moving the sludge from the ditch dregding. 

 

Offline John Mc

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2017, 12:05:56 AM »
Minor damage to the 550xp, broken brake handle, due to lack of storage on the tractor.

Been there, done that. Replaced with a used handle purchased from Chainsawr.com
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Offline DDW_OR

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2017, 01:59:36 AM »
STORAGE:

looks like the top of your rear fenders are flat. i put plastic crates on my Mahindra
 

 

here are some nice chainsaw scabbards

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,84198.0/all.html#top
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Offline DDW_OR

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2017, 02:10:54 AM »
...I will need to bypass the seat switch on the kubota, have to be in the seat whenever operating the winch.

I'll post better pictures in the next few weeks. Next thing is to add oil and gas storage along with chainsaw storage to the tractor. Then an actual brush guard to the front and protection plates for the filters. Minor damage to the 550xp, broken brake handle, due to lack of storage on the tractor.........

the "seat switch" is a bad safety idea

I have been thinking of using a pickup bed liner for a belly protector for my tractor.
won't stop everything but will stop 90%
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Offline mike_belben

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2017, 08:27:20 AM »
Find some 1/2" uhmw commercial cutting boards.  They make slick and indestructible belly skids. 

Offline thecfarm

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2017, 08:47:24 AM »
That's an odd setup for a switch. On my NH if I set the brake and put it in neutral, I can run the pto without being on the seat.
I knew you would like it!!!
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Offline g_man

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2017, 10:18:01 AM »
After running the FX85 on my 3240 kubota, I believe it's a good match and don't think it's too large. The snatch block, works well, only issue I've had was the cable slipped between the pulley and the block as I started winch. Had to loosen the pulley bolt and unlodge the cable.


Glad you are liken the new winch.!!
I had my cable jam between the sheave and snatch block body once. Not fun plus it ruined the cable. I welded a shot piece of curved rod so it couldn't happen again. Maybe something like that will work on yours.

gg

 

 

Offline DDW_OR

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2017, 12:24:14 PM »
Find some 1/2" uhmw commercial cutting boards.  They make slick and indestructible belly skids.
good idea if you can find them cheap enough.

a full 4x8x1/2 sheet is about $400

a used bedliner is about $100 or less. I agree a 1/2 inch sheet is better but.......
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Offline ScottAR

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2017, 09:01:01 PM »
Some of the Kubotas you flip the seat over onto the steering wheel to run the pto stationary.  Worth a shot before you start cutting wires. HTH
Scott
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Offline mike_belben

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2017, 09:13:50 AM »
New uhmw is pricey, i will give you that. 

Im blessed/cursed with getting expensive junk cheap or free.   Once you get past that dumpster smell, you got it licked.

Offline DDW_OR

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2017, 12:29:40 PM »
New uhmw is pricey, i will give you that. 

Im blessed/cursed with getting expensive junk cheap or free.   Once you get past that dumpster smell, you got it licked.

i have dumpster dived a lot.
blessed/cursed, i call it direct re-cycling and a blessing  8)
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Offline Crusarius

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2017, 12:40:08 PM »
The bedliner idea is a very good one. I like the UHMW / HDPE but it is very pricey and can be heavy. not that that matters on a tractor. But I come from an offroad background. Lighter is better.
I knew what I thought I meant.

Offline coxy

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2017, 06:26:29 PM »
hey I don't have parts for that so be careful  :D :D glad you like your set up  I like the scraper pan thing

Offline crazy4saws

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #35 on: December 24, 2017, 07:17:19 PM »
Some of the Kubotas you flip the seat over onto the steering wheel to run the pto stationary.  Worth a shot before you start cutting wires. HTH

ScottAR, I tried this today and it works on my Kubota. I didnt use the winch just tested it. It seems like its more of pain then having to stay in the seat. Ill try it out in the woods. Thank you for the tip.

TheCFarm, I tried setting the Pbrake and putting in Neutral, doesn't seem to work on my tractor. It was worth a shot. Your correct, this winch is awesome.

DDW, Ill be posting some pictures soon of the storage and protection progress on the tractor. Good ideas for you and other members. Thank you

Gman, Good suggestion on the snatch block. I tore mine apart and found (3) bushings used in the assembly. I milled on of them down to decrease the grap by almost 1/16th between the pulley and the block. Its worked very well so far. Unfortunately I didnt take pictures of this.

Paul, you sure there isnt a kubota axle or PTO shaft of the winch laying around your property? Maybe under that Petibone or the dozer? No tires for the scraper??? LOL, some day Ill make progress on the C4, the trip to NY was a good haul for that weekend. Dad kept telling me, when it comes to moving dirt, there is more dirt/work there than it looks...he was right. The pan is handy though.

Very glad I went with the FX85, instead of the FX66. The winch is slightly oversized for the tractor as it will pull logs the tractor wont skid, Im talking large logs. However with plate sunk into the ground it can pull those logs out, and then bucked and skidded. Everyone has a preference for their set up. In the pictures is an ash it pulled out into the field before I bucked it. it measured about 34" widest point. Whats not seen is the 6 plus foot of BAD rot that I cut off before winching. Was a little nervous when I started the back cut on that one. I bored in from both sides cleared out about 1/2 the wood, then set the hinge, then moved to the remaining holding wood, about 10" in the back, just started back cutting and POP! No time to set wedges. Took out a 18"DBH soft maple I was trying to save. Im cutting all the dead Ash and Elm plus anything that is dead standing, or has its top knocked out. Local small saw mill will take down to 8" for pallet logs. At least Im making a little money as the woods is not ready for a harvest. Plus its very enjoyable.


 

For perspective, saw on the left is 154se sporting a 20" chipper set up. Saw on the right is a 281xp wearing a 28" full round chisel set up. 

 

Offline JBlain

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Re: Wallenstein Tractor Winch
« Reply #36 on: December 26, 2017, 09:01:57 PM »
Great choice.  I bought the FX85 last year and the dealer was only 30 minutes away.  I also grabbed 2 self releasing snatch blocks that are well made.  Mine is mounted to a New Holland 1920 with a FEL.

So far I have put about 5 triaxle loads of gypsy moth killed oak on the landing and I did pull a big 38" dbh ash tree in 10' sections up a very steep hill to a band mill.

The receiver hitch is great too.

Best
Josh

 


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