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Author Topic: Removing ethanol from gas  (Read 1018 times)

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Offline plantman

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Removing ethanol from gas
« on: November 06, 2017, 09:40:42 pm »
Just wondering if anyone has done this .


Offline Texas-Jim

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Re: Removing ethanol from gas
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2017, 06:11:31 pm »
no, i have ethanol free station here but it will work. Water will pull ethanol from the gas and settle with the water.
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Online John Mc

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Re: Removing ethanol from gas
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2017, 10:06:17 pm »
Just remember when you remove the ethanol, you are also lowering the octane rating. If you start with 91 octane, 10% ethanol gas, you should end up with 87 or 88 Octane once the ethanol/water mix is removed. (going from memory on the magnitude of the effect, but I'm reasonably certain I've got it right.)
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline Mad Professor

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Re: Removing ethanol from gas
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2017, 07:28:36 pm »
If you want to do it properly, get a big chemistry seprartory funnel.  Do 3 extractions with water then dry the gas layer with sodium sulfate, and do a gravity filtration.

What you'll end up with is dry lo-octane gasoline, without much ethanol.

I just go to the airport for 100LL; no ethanol no water and price is down to $4.25/gal now.

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Removing ethanol from gas
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2017, 09:37:38 pm »
Nice experiment but to what point ? You have to face the fact that what should be good corn  whiskey is now in gasoline,world wide .Try as you might you're not going to beat it .The stuff is not as bad as what some people might say .In addition to that while older machinery might have some problems with it more often that not if any repair parts are needed it's been formulated to be more resistant to ethanol than previously  manufactured parts .
I've never had a problem myself .Maybe replace the soft parts in a chainsaw carb every 5 years .Nearly 70 year old tractors that could probably run on kerosene,no problem .Living in a cold winter climate,northern Ohio ,I haven't had a fuel line freeze up in years .Used to be a common thing when it used to hit 20 below .Which thank the Almighty hasn't happened in a long time --rant over ,carry on . 8)

Online John Mc

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Re: Removing ethanol from gas
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2017, 10:27:07 pm »
Some friends who repair chainsaws in my area (on works for a Stihl Dealer, one for a Husqvarna dealer) are seeing some corrosion in the bottom end of a lot more chainsaws than they used to. In some of these cases, they are finding ethanol/water separation sitting in the bottom of the fuel tank (and presumably in the crankcase as well). Since the ethanol/water mix is rather corrosive, they are attributing the problems to that fuel - however, the saw owners also seem to be the type who use their saws infrequently (and forget to drain them when they are done). They don't see much problem with people who run their saws regularly and turn there fuel over in a reasonable period of time.  So that's an indication that this is a much an owner problem as a fuel problem.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline PA_Walnut

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Re: Removing ethanol from gas
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2017, 07:35:55 am »
I'm fortunate to have 100 octane race gas at a station 5 minutes away. Chainsaw love it and it smells SOOO good. I run it everything that isn't diesel. (except the car!)  :D

Things always start easily...one pull most of the time! 8)
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Offline plantman

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Re: Removing ethanol from gas
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2017, 05:25:44 pm »
If you want to do it properly, get a big chemistry seprartory funnel.  Do 3 extractions with water then dry the gas layer with sodium sulfate, and do a gravity filtration.

What you'll end up with is dry lo-octane gasoline, without much ethanol.

I just go to the airport for 100LL; no ethanol no water and price is down to $4.25/gal now.

Do most airports sell fuel to people off the street ? And if so, you're saying they have 100 octane ethanol free ?

Online John Mc

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Re: Removing ethanol from gas
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2017, 06:09:58 pm »
A lot of small airports will sell to people off the street. Generally, their main concern is that it has to be used off road (they don't collect the road tax, and it's illegal to use 100LL on the road because it's a leaded fuel).

Since I'm a pilot, I have easy access to a 100LL (AvGas). However, I will never run it in a chainsaw. Unless you are running a highly modified saw, the extra octane does absolutely nothing for you. The lead in the fuel can cause fouling in some engines, (especially if they are running rich and/or idle a significant amount of their running time.) Further, the lead that is in 100LL is particularly toxic. Tetraethyl lead is a neurotoxin, and can cause developmental problems in younger people, and depressed IQ in both young and old. (In fact, some have attributed a rise of about 3 or 4 points in the national average IQ due the the ban on leaded automotive fuels. That's the national average, people who were directly & frequently exposed had a more significant impact.) When you run it in your chainsaw, you are breathing in those fumes, and you are coming home with lead on your clothes. If you won't avoid it for yourself, think of the family you are bringing that stuff home to at night.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline plantman

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Re: Removing ethanol from gas
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2017, 06:26:30 pm »
But it's ok for airplanes to use it as they criss cross the sky overhead ?

Online John Mc

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Re: Removing ethanol from gas
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2017, 06:59:43 pm »
But it's ok for airplanes to use it as they criss cross the sky overhead ?

Jets (and in fact most commercial aircraft) don't run on 100LL, they run on Jet A (which is basically like a super-refined kerosene). And no, it's not OK, for the little prop planes to run on it either, which is why there are multiple R&D efforts to come up with a substitute.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Removing ethanol from gas
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2017, 05:19:32 am »
Aha a new dawning of another topic of debate .The new gasoline wars not to be confused with the ever present oil wars .
Great fun I just hope some well intended "prepper" doesn't build a retort and vacuum still in the back yard to cook down old tires and garbage into crude oil then run it through the still to make gas .That might not turn out so well . :o

Offline PA_Walnut

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Re: Removing ethanol from gas
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2017, 05:43:56 am »
Sunoco offers GT100, which is unleaded. I use it all the time in 4-stroke and 2-stroke. Everything runs better with it and no issues with fouling from ethanol. Well worth it to me.
I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
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Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Removing ethanol from gas
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2017, 09:19:15 am »
You can buy Cam II for that matter .I ran it in a Harley chopper back years ago but I question how much good it would do on a chainsaw .
However is this debate I've never had a problem with this reported "fouling " on regular pump gas on 2 cycle stuff and I've got a few that are "enhanced" .Maybe the oil has something to do with .--at the mention of that perhaps the great oil debate will surface again .Here they come lining up,the Amsoil crowd to the left 32 to one on the right -- 8)

Online John Mc

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Re: Removing ethanol from gas
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2017, 09:55:01 am »
However is this debate I've never had a problem with this reported "fouling " on regular pump gas on 2 cycle stuff and I've got a few that are "enhanced".

"Enhanced" would likely give you less fouling trouble when running 100LL (Avgas). The hotter an engine runs, the less problem there is. The leaded fuel has lead scavenging agents in it, but they are not very effective at lower temperatures (hence my earlier comment about idling for significant amounts of time).

If you are immune to the effects of tetraethyl lead, I guess that's another thing entirely. You can find out more about the toxicity of lead here (including documentation of the drop in IQ and violent or anti-social behaviors). I worked for most of my adult life for a manufacturing company that heat-treated steel wire in baths of molten lead. I had to go through a bunch of safety training for working around it. I take it seriously.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Removing ethanol from gas
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2017, 03:34:50 pm »
Oh I've heard of them running marine gas,aviation gas,racing fuel the whole enchilada .Well I for one am not going to drive to Lake Erie which is 90 miles away for gasoline nor take a jaunt to the  airport for a jug of Av gas .
It's a chainsaw,a tool .If it were a fully restored Harley ,1938 model El or a 55 T-bird I might think about it .Good grief if they are that staunch about a chainsaw I can't imagine how they are with their automobile . :)

Online John Mc

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Re: Removing ethanol from gas
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2017, 06:18:21 pm »
Oh I've heard of them running marine gas,aviation gas,racing fuel the whole enchilada .Well I for one am not going to drive to Lake Erie which is 90 miles away for gasoline nor take a jaunt to the  airport for a jug of Av gas .
It's a chainsaw,a tool .If it were a fully restored Harley ,1938 model El or a 55 T-bird I might think about it .Good grief if they are that staunch about a chainsaw I can't imagine how they are with their automobile . :)

I can understand that. If I didn't pass right by a gas station with ethanol-free premium several times a week, I'd likely be burning the 10% ethanol gas. I'd just be taking a bit more care about turning it over quickly and not letting it sit in my saws for an extended period (something I do with my E0 gas anyway, I just don't stay quite as on top of it as I do when using E10)
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline Texas-Jim

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Re: Removing ethanol from gas
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2017, 07:07:49 pm »
I fly as well and im not buying av gas for my saw. First octane rating refers to is the measure of how much compression a fuel can withstand before igniting. now since most saws range from 110 -140 psi there is no need and no benefit from running a high octane fuel. It doesnt hurt anything but your wallet.
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Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Removing ethanol from gas
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2017, 07:48:05 pm »
They talk about it but I'm not so sure you can get "detonation" on a 2 cycle .You'd have to have the trapped compression really high to get that to happen .Now if you are one of those who  leans the high speed jet so it gets the speed of a model airplane engine it might happen .I don't so it just hasn't happened to me .BTW some of my saws sport a D-handle so I can get them started if that says anything about compression .--the gas wars,the next frontier .  ;D

Offline PA_Walnut

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Re: Removing ethanol from gas
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2017, 07:53:57 pm »
I run race-fuel for the no-ethanol reason, not the octane.
However, apparently higher-octane matters according to Husqvarna since their pre-mix is 95 octane.

Knowing that heat pre-disposes detonation, I would think that more octane is also advantageous for saws that are use for long runs, like ripping a log or milling.
I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
LT40HD Wide 35HP Diesel
Kubota M62 Tractor/Backhoe