The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:




TimberKing Sawmills




Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Forest Products Industry Insurance


Norwood Industries Inc.


Sawmill & Woodlot Magazine



Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades


Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

Woodshax Outdoor Vending Solutions

FARMA

Forestry Forum Tool Box

Author Topic: whack em stack em cabin idears  (Read 1755 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 4x4American

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5291
  • Age: 126
  • Location: SE Adirondacks USA
  • Gender: Male
  • Team red, white, blue and orange
    • Website Link
whack em stack em cabin idears
« on: October 31, 2017, 08:36:54 pm »
So I got logs, a sawmill, and a backhoe.  I needa make a place to sleep in at night and where the crew can warm up during the cold winter days and maybe cook some lunch for them too.  Nothing fancy but I want it to be simple, tough and fast.  Something that will last a long DanG time too.  Really wanna get it up before this winter, don't have much time.  Well really my main concern is getting the foundation done before the ground freezes, so I need to decide how I'm gonna do it.


Here's what I need help with:
1. Foundation...I need to go down at least 4'.  I'm in greasy clay soil too so whatever it is is gonna need to be able to tolerate having wet feet.  Really don't wanna mess with pouring any concrete...but I could probably get footers from utopia concrete or something if I decided to go that route.  Would prefer to use wood for cheapness, kinda like a pole barn but I'm not sure how that'd hold up.  Of course I don't have enough black locust to use as poles to set in the ground.   It's gonna be prolly around 16x24 or something like that.  Reason being I have 16' logs and 12' logs.


2.  Walls...I'm thinking to make d logs on the sawmill to use for the walls.  I have a mess of northern white cedar and white pine I can use for this.  The cedar I have is mainly 12' long and some 10'ers.  The pine I have is pretty much all 16'.  My idea was to either make them all 6" thick so that everything is even...I want to have a thick wall like a traditional log cabin would...but I also have some big ole pine logs that I could cut down and make square pieces to fit in there.  I really don't care what it looks like, just need something functional.  So how can I connect them without spending all this time cutting joints.  Can I just set them on top of each other and stagger them for stability and timberlock them to each other?  Can I just set the two flat surfaces on top of each other and then chink it or should I put some sort of insulation strips down and sandwich them?


See I'm just a hack and I want to use modern technology combined with a little bit of old school tried and true to make something functional as fast as I can using every advantage I have (sawmill, backhoe, logs).  My plan was to build the walls probably 8' tall and then on one side lay a bunch of 4x6's or something across on one side to make a loft and then build the roof over it.  I have a man bucket for the backhoe we built so I can easily lift a man up to tackle airborne stuff.

I'd love to build the style where the loft goes over the front porch so that you have a place to hang out outside in the rain.  And all that stuff will come I just want to get it started and giver hell..

so...wadayathink?

Boy, back in my day..

Offline btulloh

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 730
  • Age: 65
  • Location: Midlothian, VA
  • Gender: Male
  • I never met an air conditioner I didn't like
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2017, 09:10:35 pm »
I think you'd be better off and quicker to saw stuff and build a post-frame structure intead of logs.  Don't know about the foundation.  Not familiar with your soil conditions.  Plenty of great minds on here to chime in yet.

Whatever you decide to build, i'll enjoy following the progress. 
HM126

Offline barbender

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5100
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Deer River MN
  • Gender: Male
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2017, 11:07:49 pm »
I'd say, put treated posts down the 4' and attach your subfloor to those, bringing them above grade to whatever height you like. If you want logs, go for it, but it would probably be just as fast to just saw yourself framing lumber and board and batten siding. Or would the logs get you around having to have lumber graded? My .02
Too many irons in the fire

Offline ljohnsaw

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2662
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Northern California
  • Gender: Male
  • Happily retired... Working harder than ever!
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2017, 12:57:03 am »
Do as Barbender and Btulloh say but save the "slabs" you took off the log.  Edge them to the same consistent width and nail them up so it "looks" like a log cabin!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 38" cut Bandmill up to 64' - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline sprucebunny

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3726
  • Age: 63
  • Location: Northern NH
  • Gender: Female
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2017, 06:58:51 am »
If I was going to build a quick log cabin, I'd get a bunch more of the 2' long epoxy coated rebar from HD ( $.75/ea.), drill holes in the logs and pound the rebar in. I'd use any type of long lasting foam strip between the logs. "Caulk saver" comes 3/4" and there's rolls of foam for truck caps. Also "sillSeal" can be folded lengthwise.

You're going to have to cut out windows and the openings need to be taller and that's another opportunity to tie the logs together with a groove and a 2x4.

Just thoughts.... haven't had the motivation to try them.
MS193, MS192 and an 026  Weeding and Thinning. Gilbert Champion sawmill

Offline 4x4American

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5291
  • Age: 126
  • Location: SE Adirondacks USA
  • Gender: Male
  • Team red, white, blue and orange
    • Website Link
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2017, 07:02:27 am »
Thanks for the idears guys!  I want the walls to be nice and meaty is why I wanted to use logs or d logs.  It’s gotta be my fort at the fort.  Lol
Boy, back in my day..

Offline Don P

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3929
  • Location: Southwestern VA
  • Gender: Male
    • Calculator Index
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2017, 07:52:55 am »
For foundation if you can drain the 4' deep clay swimming pool to daylight you could do a gravel filled trench footing then build on skids on top of the gravel.
There are also permanent wood foundations on gravel footings.

Posts running from a footing up to a floor, unbraced, are simply something to tip over. A post frame building braces the posts by extending them to the top plate and uses the sheathed walls to brace the posts. The infill between posts can be log.

Any of the foam strips need a space to live in if they are going to have any recovery, smush them dead flat and they wont bounce back and fill a gap so it you use them you need to plow a shallow groove to set them in. A router or power planer run down the bottom face depending on the foam. Use close celled foams, open cell is water holding sponge. The caulk saver is known as backer rod and comes in many diameters. A saw kerf down the bottom edge about 1/4 depth also helps relieve stress and directs checking to that lower hidden face. Any projecting edges need to be shaped back underneath the log above creating water shedding drip edges rather than water collecting ledges.

Lags and timber screws can pull stuff tight where if you use dowel type metal, rebar, nails etc if the log is a rocking chair you can pound one end down, go to the other and pound it down and watch the other end pop up... I like to have a bucket of lags, impact and drills handy even on those jobs. Really even with the timber screw jobs I usually go through a couple of hundred 3/8 lags on a house.

loft joists spanning 15' at 2' centers should be 4x8 minimum, I'd lean towards just skimming the top flat and living large with them.

You can just lap the corners, they will gap vertically as the wood shrinks. You can chink that or do some joinery to block that initially. There are many kinds of corner notches if you want to explore that.

Offline Crusarius

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 709
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Canadice, New York
  • Gender: Male
  • Lost in....
    • RockModified.com
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2017, 08:45:50 am »
perma columns are prepoured columns that you bolt a 6x6 post into. That works for quick and dirty but they are kinda costly.
I knew what I thought I meant.

Offline Hilltop366

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1846
  • Location: Nova Scotia
  • Gender: Male
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2017, 08:59:35 am »
Lots of overhang on the roof.

Offline red

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1950
  • Location: ne PA
  • Gender: Male
  • we will never forget
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2017, 09:43:52 am »
Drop two sea containers and build a roof between them . Of course you have to get creative . Its Nov 1 you have to go prefab for this year next Spring is the time to do it right .
We have a lot of good boys and girls in harms way
lets all support them and their familys.

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 292
  • Age: 55
  • Location: Chugiak, Alaska
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2017, 12:56:47 pm »
Sounds like the cabins we built in Fairbanks, Alaska, back in the 80s.  The foundation there had permafrost concerns, so the cabins were built on concrete piers that had footings about 8' below grade.  I think they were done with an auger on a backhoe.  They were poured using sonotube forms with rebar reinforcement, and the cabin sat about 30" above grade.  Probably what today would be considered only suitable for a deck.

The girders were pressure treated, probably built up from 2x8 or 2x10.  Floor joists were 2x8 or 2x10, can't quite recall.  This was for a 20x28 structure.  Double up rim joists to support the d-log walls.  The walls were 6" three-sided logs, cut square on ends and butt-jointed.  A layer of sill seal, yellow fiberglass, was laid between each run.  We used 12" spikes to secure logs in place.  Had to first cut a notch with a chainsaw, pop out the wood with the hammer claw, then pound in the spike with a 3 lb. sledge hammer.  Timberloks would go so much faster.  Gable trusses were set on top of the 8' wall, and blocking and scabbing put in to hang a drywall ceiling.  Non-bearing 2x4 walls were framed inside to establish the living space.

Wall corners were simply alternating overhangs.  I think the term is butt and pass.  If you wanted to get fancy on a corner you could cut in a shallow housing in the passing through log to inset the butt end of the other log.

The trick to a nice butt joint when connecting two logs in a run is to set them flush together then run a chainsaw straight down, taking a little off each side and making them match perfectly.  Just don't do it with the logs in place, as there is a good chance of going too deep and hitting the wall logs below.  Don't ask how I know this.

I wasn't involved in the finishing, but I know you have to frame in a box to hold your windows and door, set in a notch that allows the logs to settle and shrink.  There probably was some chinking done on the exterior of the logs, but the interior walls were just bare rough-sawn spruce.  Roof overhang was probably 24" at eaves, and close to that at the gable rake.
Woodland Mills HM130

Offline 1938farmall

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 174
  • Age: 80
  • Location: Central Wisconsin
  • Gender: Male
  • Uff-da
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2017, 02:07:26 pm »
got lotza ideas about "quick & dirty" but see you are in the state of n.y.  are you going to do this without worry about the code?
aka oldnorskie

Offline 4x4American

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5291
  • Age: 126
  • Location: SE Adirondacks USA
  • Gender: Male
  • Team red, white, blue and orange
    • Website Link
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2017, 09:37:15 pm »
Thanks chugiak tinkerer!  I wouldnt have thought about a notch for allowing movement.  are there any other spots i need to do something special to allow for movement?

Boy, back in my day..

Offline barbender

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5100
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Deer River MN
  • Gender: Male
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2017, 01:13:14 am »
Everything moves in a log structure. Anything that impedes the logs from moving down towards the floor will cause problems.
Too many irons in the fire

Offline Dave Shepard

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 10168
  • Age: 2012
  • Location: Alford Massachusetts
  • Gender: Male
  • Geometrically proportional
    • My homepage
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2017, 10:39:36 am »
A friend built a log cabin kit. He had to build window and door "bucks". Basically a 2x6 box that was a couple of inches shorter than the rough opening. From the upside of the box a vertical slit wad made with a curcular saw so that there was maybe 2 inches showing in the inside. You would nail the buck into the ro at the top of the slits so that the nails could move as the logs shrank.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 292
  • Age: 55
  • Location: Chugiak, Alaska
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2017, 12:31:58 pm »
One option might be to skip the foundation altogether and build a "portable" structure on skids.  You'd have to keep it a little smaller, maybe 12x16 or thereabouts?  As a temporary or portable structure you'd probably slide right past a lot of permitting issues.

The dovetail cabin thread that's also active has a link to this nice cabin by Fred in Montana.  Scale that up a little bit and you've got the makings of the perfect doghouse.
Woodland Mills HM130

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 292
  • Age: 55
  • Location: Chugiak, Alaska
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2017, 12:44:05 pm »
I think you'd be better off and quicker to saw stuff and build a post-frame structure intead of logs.  Don't know about the foundation.  Not familiar with your soil conditions.  Plenty of great minds on here to chime in yet.

Whatever you decide to build, i'll enjoy following the progress.

I'm not sure if I agree about a stick-frame build being faster, but definitely it allows for a tighter build.  Logs have a huge thermal mass, and that's the reason why I'm not doing a log build at my remote cabin.  If insulation, ventilation and heating are a big concern you're definitely much better off going with a stick-frame or post frame build that you can insulate as much as you want.  Logs suck as insulation.

Log cabins built with sawn logs go up insanely fast provided your joinery isn't too complicated.  The bonus is that once the walls are up you've got the insulation (hah!) and siding already completed.
Woodland Mills HM130

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 292
  • Age: 55
  • Location: Chugiak, Alaska
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2017, 01:08:40 pm »
For foundation if you can drain the 4' deep clay swimming pool to daylight you could do a gravel filled trench footing then build on skids on top of the gravel.
There are also permanent wood foundations on gravel footings.

Posts running from a footing up to a floor, unbraced, are simply something to tip over. A post frame building braces the posts by extending them to the top plate and uses the sheathed walls to brace the posts. The infill between posts can be log.
...

To throw you another curve ball, my remote cabin design (still at design stage, *sigh*) is based on Don P's advice above.  In my case the footings are pads placed on a bed of gravel.  The posts run from the pad to the top plate, and exterior sheathing will act as a brace.  This is my 18x30 design.

I doubt this would be faster than log construction, but you could infill frame with 2x6 or whatever depth you want for insulation.  I don't have the joinery details quite yet, but I would forego traditional timber frame construction and use Timberlinx and Timberlok connectors wherever possible.  A scaled down version of my 18x30 could be done with the logs you have, assuming diameters are sufficient.
Woodland Mills HM130

Offline rjwoelk

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 561
  • Age: 61
  • Location: lumsden sask. canada
  • Gender: Male
    • countrysidefirewood
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2017, 02:46:27 pm »
4x4 I did pads on my cabin. 9 3x4 pads sitting on packed gravel. Cabin is 22x26 with a 6 ft deck. I used the dovetail jig from NorthernDovetailer. But I would say buttand pass if you dont mind the look, whould be the fastest way. I used log screws 14 inch. Get the ones you can use a nut driver with. The torex ones we had trouble with. the twisting action cause it to slip out.  With Butt and Pass you got vertical shrink and if you notch the one into the side of the other it will give you a better seal. One can use a good chiniking caulk to seal up.

 
Lt15 palax wood processor,3020 JD 7120 CIH 36x72 hay shed for workshop coop tractor with a duetz for power plant

Offline 4x4American

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5291
  • Age: 126
  • Location: SE Adirondacks USA
  • Gender: Male
  • Team red, white, blue and orange
    • Website Link
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2017, 07:38:43 pm »
Drop two sea containers and build a roof between them . Of course you have to get creative . Its Nov 1 you have to go prefab for this year next Spring is the time to do it right .


Yea...I'm thinkin you might be right, Red...it's getting late and I already have one building started that needs to get done ASAP but I haven't had the time..not sure where I plan to get the time to do a cabin and the kicker is the clay is so wet right now I can't hardly do anything with the backhoe on it it's like riding around on an ice skating rink with bald tires.  I would love to get a foundation done though so that I could work on it during the winter but..seems to me lumber needs to move year round...sometimes I think about just a camper would get me by for now..
Boy, back in my day..

Offline Dave Shepard

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 10168
  • Age: 2012
  • Location: Alford Massachusetts
  • Gender: Male
  • Geometrically proportional
    • My homepage
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2017, 07:45:09 pm »
You could always go timber frame!

12x16
 

 

Or you could go Deluxe 16x20.

 

 

The granite hitching post and da shrubs might be overkill for a sawmill shack.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Offline 4x4American

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5291
  • Age: 126
  • Location: SE Adirondacks USA
  • Gender: Male
  • Team red, white, blue and orange
    • Website Link
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2017, 08:00:44 pm »
 :D :D :D  Dave I would love to learn timber framing and do one but I just don't have the time...but...you could come and do a timber frame for me, I'd let ya!!  ;D
Boy, back in my day..

Offline Dave Shepard

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 10168
  • Age: 2012
  • Location: Alford Massachusetts
  • Gender: Male
  • Geometrically proportional
    • My homepage
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2017, 08:02:43 pm »
Only charge me a small daily fee? :D
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Offline 4x4American

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5291
  • Age: 126
  • Location: SE Adirondacks USA
  • Gender: Male
  • Team red, white, blue and orange
    • Website Link
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2017, 08:38:02 pm »
Only charge me a small daily fee? :D


lol lol I wouldn’t even charge ya a dime!
Boy, back in my day..

Offline thecfarm

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 25173
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Chesterville,Maine
  • Gender: Male
  • If I don't do it,it don't get done
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2017, 06:06:46 am »
Them shrubs and hitching post would make any sawmill shack shine with proud.  ;D
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline red

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1950
  • Location: ne PA
  • Gender: Male
  • we will never forget
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2017, 09:44:06 am »
Go completely Red neck and use two school busses .  Dream about cabins on www.cabinporn.com or call that TV Guy to build you a $100,000 tree house. Mean while stay warm .  .
We have a lot of good boys and girls in harms way
lets all support them and their familys.

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 292
  • Age: 55
  • Location: Chugiak, Alaska
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2017, 11:59:45 am »
That cabin link that Red posted is safe for work.  Well, might end up sucking up bandwidth and time, but it won't get your spouse all riled up.

I notice a 10-x48 office trailer for sale on the Syracuse CL.  Tow it in and drop it like a job site office, which it is. 
Woodland Mills HM130

Offline drobertson

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 7923
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Missouri
  • Gender: Male
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2017, 01:22:16 pm »
The foundation would be the tricky part, or rather maybe the most important for sure,, I've sawn a few D-log cabins,  several different approaches on their construction methods, you tube has a few neat videos on dovetailing for the chinking methods, the others often use the lap over and spiked together.  I do know for a fact when using green timbers, if there are any inside walls,,there has to be an allowance for shrinkage, seems like for a normal build, 8' ceilings, bout 1-1/2 to 2"  I've always thought it may be easier to build get away cabins on skids, and level as required if it's a primitive setting. 
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Offline 4x4American

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5291
  • Age: 126
  • Location: SE Adirondacks USA
  • Gender: Male
  • Team red, white, blue and orange
    • Website Link
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2017, 10:24:21 pm »
Yep..I’m leaning towards just doing it on skids.  If I did it that way, I would do two layers or skids, so that that that (Dug) way as the bottom ones rot I can easily replace them.  Or just set on blocks and try to keep the wet offa them.  Maybe just use some hemlock...if I can find some hemlock without shake round here
Boy, back in my day..

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 292
  • Age: 55
  • Location: Chugiak, Alaska
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2017, 02:20:58 pm »
My sis is building a shed 8x16 on skids.  Started with 6" of crusher run gravel, then lay old railroad ties as bunks.  The skids are pressure treated 6x6, and the PT 2x8 joists sit on top of the skids.  She is building it with mobility in mind, so each joist is attached to the skids with four Timberloks toe-screwed in.  Getting the RR ties level has been the hardest part of the shed build.  Apropos to nothing, I really need to get myself a transit or a modern equivalent.
Woodland Mills HM130

Offline 4x4American

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5291
  • Age: 126
  • Location: SE Adirondacks USA
  • Gender: Male
  • Team red, white, blue and orange
    • Website Link
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2017, 08:35:56 pm »
Talked with a local guy who owns a pretty successful excavation biz, he is 1/3 owner of the quarry next door.  I told him I was thinking about getting some stone from him, and with it I was gonna dig a few trenches, put 4 perc pipe in the bottoms that daylights out and backfill with stone for a cabin foundation.  He said that what they would do with camps is go up in the woods and cut some red cedar poles, sharpen the points and drive em in the ground with the backhoe and build on them.  Said the red cedar round here would last forever...I been giving that idea some thought but I dont like the point idea cause that would be conducive to settling no?  I have pushed over some old fence posts with the backhoe that looked old as the dirt but when i pushed them over they fought back and were still red inside..so idk what yous guys tink?  I can get some red cedar.  He also said hemlock with tar would hold up.  Another thought was to just use the red cedar (i think its juniper what grows here but not sure) but instead of driving it down, dig down, put a cap block or some sorta load bearing base and backfill it with the clay and call it a day, eh?
Boy, back in my day..

Offline Runningalucas

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 19
  • I'm new!
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2017, 12:11:40 am »
He said that what they would do with camps is go up in the woods and cut some red cedar poles, sharpen the points and drive em in the ground with the backhoe and build on them.  Said the red cedar round here would last forever...I been giving that idea some thought but I dont like the point idea cause that would be conducive to settling no?  I have pushed over some old fence posts with the backhoe that looked old as the dirt but when i pushed them over they fought back and were still red inside..so idk what yous guys tink?  I can get some red cedar.  He also said hemlock with tar would hold up.  Another thought was to just use the red cedar (i think its juniper what grows here but not sure) but instead of driving it down, dig down, put a cap block or some sorta load bearing base and backfill it with the clay and call it a day, eh?

Driving piles?  Reminds me of Venice; it's lasted.

Offline Don P

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3929
  • Location: Southwestern VA
  • Gender: Male
    • Calculator Index
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2017, 08:14:55 am »
Driven piles use side friction to resist load. They stop driving when the blow count and movement per blow is correct for the load... above my pay grade.

Offline 4x4American

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5291
  • Age: 126
  • Location: SE Adirondacks USA
  • Gender: Male
  • Team red, white, blue and orange
    • Website Link
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2017, 09:08:08 am »
My thing is, if te clay soil gets real wet and slushy, I think it’ll be conducive to settling
Boy, back in my day..

Offline 4x4American

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5291
  • Age: 126
  • Location: SE Adirondacks USA
  • Gender: Male
  • Team red, white, blue and orange
    • Website Link
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2017, 08:36:08 pm »
I was thinking, cedar usually has a decent taper to it.  If I was to jam em in the ground small end first, then the taper oughta help hold he structure up more betterly, no?  Now my next thought, would that make the poles want to move up with a frost heave then?
Boy, back in my day..

Offline rjwoelk

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 561
  • Age: 61
  • Location: lumsden sask. canada
  • Gender: Male
    • countrysidefirewood
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2017, 12:37:38 pm »
Well you want to have a bigger foot print to support the weight not the other way round. That is why they bell pist footings
Lt15 palax wood processor,3020 JD 7120 CIH 36x72 hay shed for workshop coop tractor with a duetz for power plant

Offline 4x4American

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5291
  • Age: 126
  • Location: SE Adirondacks USA
  • Gender: Male
  • Team red, white, blue and orange
    • Website Link
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2017, 09:20:02 pm »
Well you want to have a bigger foot print to support the weight not the other way round. That is why they bell pist footings


That makes sense to me to a certain degree.  For example say 8” of surface on the bottom end is enough to support the weight..then use a pole with 8” on the small end and push it into the ground.  The 8” would be enough on the bottom to support the weight and the taper would act like a wedge to help create frictional resistance, no?  If I sharpened the end to help sink it, then I guess the advantage of using the large end at the bottom is that after the sharp point it has more surface area to hold the weight. 
Boy, back in my day..

Offline Don P

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3929
  • Location: Southwestern VA
  • Gender: Male
    • Calculator Index
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2017, 10:00:52 pm »
Clay at 1500 psf allowable
8" dia footing =.35 square feet x 1500psf=523lbs/ pier allowable. You would about need to line em up at that footprint.

Doodle;



Offline MbfVA

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 339
  • Location: On the Rivanna River in VA - soon
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new but the shine is fading...
    • Tanglewood Ordinary Country Restaurant
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2017, 06:17:04 am »
Only charge me a small daily fee? :D

I think he'll sign with you, except you left out the "r" in that last word.

Kinda like the (shocking as it is) difference between lighting and lightning…
www.ordinary.com (really); Jim
Always learning & questioning authority
Peterson WPF 10" Hi-Lo w/ 5' slabber
Dougherty RS3000 Tree Saw
Liebherr 621C, Bobcat A300, 430
NH TN90F, Kubota B3000
Polaris 4 seater, JD old gator
Ford/Chevy/Porsche
and a few more...
Did I mention, a very small bank account?

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 292
  • Age: 55
  • Location: Chugiak, Alaska
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2017, 01:03:26 pm »
...
Kinda like the (shocking as it is) difference between lighting and lightning…
no_no
Somebody needs to go stand in the corner and spend some time thinking about what they said.  ;)
Woodland Mills HM130

Offline MbfVA

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 339
  • Location: On the Rivanna River in VA - soon
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new but the shine is fading...
    • Tanglewood Ordinary Country Restaurant
Re: whack em stack em cabin idears
« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2017, 01:30:34 pm »
Please tell my wife to stop putting ideas in your head
www.ordinary.com (really); Jim
Always learning & questioning authority
Peterson WPF 10" Hi-Lo w/ 5' slabber
Dougherty RS3000 Tree Saw
Liebherr 621C, Bobcat A300, 430
NH TN90F, Kubota B3000
Polaris 4 seater, JD old gator
Ford/Chevy/Porsche
and a few more...
Did I mention, a very small bank account?