A note to Tom from Husqvarna

[Tom]

There has been a lot of talk about the box stores carrying husky equipment and the chainsaw dealers refusing to work on "box store" saws.

I invited husky's customer service to visit our site and referenced a thread where Brian had been intimidated away from Lowe's.  

I'm sure that there are dealers that will make an effort to deny service to customers who purchased their saws elsewhere.  I'm also sure there are Dealers who's primary purpose is to make the customer happy in the hopes that he can sell you something himself.  Maintenance and warranty work provide a lot of floor traffic to a "Good" dealer.  Eventually the sore losers will learn that or suffer.

I was happy with the reply that Jacob of Husqvarna provided and feel that they are making an effort to be a good customer oriented organization.  Hopefully they will make our Forum a standard stop in judging their image in the market-place.

Below is the the answer from Husky, a quote.

Tom,
Thanks for the link, I've been trying to monitor a lot of the profesional / enthusiest boards to see how are products handling the real world.
The issue that was brought up between the dealer and Lowe's is not new, and it's something that we have been addressing ever since we started selling to Lowe's.
We have had a lot dealers refuse to work on units bought from Lowe's, or even another dealer, but they are required to work on all Husqvarna products that are brought into their shop, it's stated in the contract that they signed.
We're trying to resolve this issue, but it will not entirely go away. Thanks again for the link.

[bitternut]

Hey Tom since you are in contact with a representative of Husqvarna how about asking him what happened to the link they used to have on timber cutting. I have looked high and low for it but it seems to have disappeared. It used to be on their website.

[lucky_cutter]

I have been reading previous threads about problems with servicing a husky, and looking at service when buying a stihl vs husky. I however have been spoiled as there is a fabulous sales and repair shop nearby. If you absolutely need your saw running the next day he will work into the night to make it so. He is honest and will try his hardest to make the customer happy. He sells both stihls and huskys and will happily work on either no matter where the saw was origionally bought. I only hope husqvarna and stihl recognize what an asset he is for their company and reward him and others like him for their efforts. Otherwise, the good people may just give up the business and we customers will be left to dealing with nothing more than a steriotypical used auto salesmen. As for husqvarna,they had deal with the problem sooner than later because service is what brings the customer back for the second, and third, ect.. saw

[Tom]

Welcome to the forum, Lucky Cutter.  

It's great to have someone provide a service with a smile, isn't it.  You are right.  A servicemen should pay heed to their customers.  The problem shouldn't be one that the manufacturer should have to fix.  The dealer should realize that it's his bread and butter too

[jokers]

It`s interesting in a way to read of the perception that people in certain areas have, that it is difficult to get good service for Huskies. I say perception because without first hand knowledge of what their particular problems are, I don`t know if they are legitimate or simply sour grapes because a dealer would not warranty a non-warranty repair. This sour grapes scenario happens more times than most people would be willing to admit.

On the other hand, the entry of Lowe`s into the Husky sales arena does nothing for customer satisfaction or brand reputation either. It`s hard enough to find someone in Lowe`s who knows their main line products like plumbing and lumber, but you can completely forget about finding someone who knows anything about saws there. I`ve played the ignorant consumer every time I get the opportunity and I never cease to be amazed at what I`m told.

The prices at Lowe`s are also retail with no room for negotiation, so who would buy there unless no other dealer had any saws due to a natural disaster or something? A natural disaster is the only area where I can see Lowe`s doing anything for Husky because they are in essence an alternate pipeline for distribution of the product during crunch time, unless of course Lowe`s is practicing "just in time" inventory control, in which case they wouldn`t have many saws on hand.

I can understand the reticence of Husky dealers who don`t want to warranty repair a saw sold at Lowe`s. If the dealer sells the saw initially, any profit he makes on the initial sale can help makeup for the reduced shop rate that he will get if he has to do any warranty work. This on top of being forced to carry lawn care products that aren`t for the most part industry leaders, but are expected to sell at industry leader prices.

Another thing regarding warranty. If a dealer sells a saw, he is much less likely to see it come back for unnecesarry warranty type claims if he sets the saw up and gives the new user atleast some rudimentary instruction. Who is going to do that at Lowe`s? Who ends up picking up the slack for Lowe`s lack of ability to properly setup the saw and educate the consumer?

The bottom line is that if a consumer wants the best that Husky has to offer, they have to go to a servicing dealer. Unfortunately for the consumer, not all dealers are equal.

What`s ironic to me is that the single line Stihl dealers are the ones least likely to be capable where I live and the single line Husky dealers are atleast average in their abilities. There are several local Stihl dealers who either don`t know what a rim sprocket is or don`t stock them because they are unaware that they are basic wear items. It`s my opinion that the regional distributors reps hold a large amount of responsibility for poor quality dealerships and difficulty obtaining legitimate warranty repairs.

Russ

[jokers]

Maintenance and warranty work provide a lot of floor traffic to a "Good" dealer.  Eventually the sore losers will learn that or suffer.

Tom,

I feel that this statement of your`s needs to be fleshed out.

I believe that if you studied the demographics of the average consumer who purchased a saw at Lowe`s, you would find that they only buy one name brand saw in a lifetime. Consequently I see neglible value at best in the "floor traffic" that they provide. Furthermore, they often buy the small staples like chains,bars, files, and oil that shore up the bottom line, at the big retailer. I don`t see how this benefits the "sore loser" saw dealer.

Regarding maintenance, I`ll bet that most consumers never even read the owners manual never mind pay heed to things like periodic replacement of filters if they did read the manual, and I offer as evidence the number of totally clapped out sprockets seen on saws finally damaged or negelected to the point of needing a real repair. The sprocket is something that offers direct and tangible feedback in diminished performance, as evidence that the average non-pro consumer, the only type that Lowe`s will see, ever maintains anything on the saw.

When the saw comes to a repairing dealer, the dealer has two choices. Charge the shop rate necessary to support the overhead of having the tools, inventory, and qualified technicians and run the risk of being perceived as a crook for "gouging" the consumer, or he can take some of the costs on the chin and send the consumer who`s already bought his "lifetime" chainsaw away happy. It`s alot easier to take some on the chin if you got a slice of the fresh pie.

I don`t know anyone who thinks that warranty work is a deal unless they`ve figured out a way to gouge the parent company, and how do you think Husky would feel about that?

The bottom line is that Husky is prostituting their reputation for short term market share  IMO.

Russ

[Brian_B.]

I didn't honestly mean to make a stink!

I would consider myself a savvy consumer. I mean that I usually research the living SH** out of it before I decide what it is I want.

I don't think that most consumers know of any other option besides the "BOX" Stores.

I have talked to two different Husky dealers within 25 miles and so far I don't feel that they could serve me. I do not want this to influence anyone’s decisions to buy or not to buy any brand.

I think that I will eventually buy a Stihl MS290 or MS310.

[jokers]

Hi Brian,

You haven`t created a stink as far as I`m concerned. If Husky is letting you down, it`s your perogative as a customer to say so. After all, there is no higher purpose involved here. Husqvarna`s only contribution to society is to provide a good product with what should be good service. If they can`t do that, evolution will cull them from the herd.

I missed your original thread regarding what you plan to do with this saw so I don`t know why you feel that the Husky dealers can`t serve you, or why you have settled on the 290 or 310 vs any other saw in the Stihl line-up. I`ll have to go looking for it.

Russ

[Brian_B.]

Russ

I have been to my Stihl dealer and talked to him.

I like the guy!

I didn't feel like he was trying to serve me any B.S.!

When I started this quest for a saw I was convinced that I wanted a Husky.

I only want to clear about a half an acre this shouldn't be such a dilemma.

My father had a Stihl. My first saw will be a Stihl.

[Stephen_Wiley]

Welcome to the Forum, Lucky Cutter :!:

Your in Frank Pender's neck of the woods.

Hope your name depicts the many years of experience in recognizing timber falling as a pro and not just a mishap experience.

Looking forward to hearing more from you !

[leweee]

Husky is only hurting them selfs by selling to the" big box" stores.   short term gain in market share ,but unhappy campers when it comes to service If the "box store" don't service what they sell, they  have no business selling it Just my 2 cents CDN.

[Tom]

Without trying to stand up for anyone..... ;what have I to gain",  I think that a dealer is cutting his own throat to take out his vengeance on a "customer".  If the dealer has a problem with Huskey, take it up with Husky.    It's pretty short-sighted to tell a customer, in so many words, "I don't want you for a customer".

There are other ways of combating competition that have the potential of providing profits.  If a dealer is a good businessman then he should be pursuing these avenues rather than making his potential customers feel unwelcome.

Opinions may show that Husky is in the wrong when it comes to the big picture of support.  Other opinions may show that the dealer can benefit.  I don't care to get into making those decisions,but, it sounds to me as if Husky is approaching the Dealer problem positively from a customer's perspective.  The described experience that Baily has had is pretty negative and not conducive to a return visit.

[jokers]

Hi Tom,

I can`t say that I disagree with you in the whole context of the dealer who doesn`t help a customer being hurt in the long run, but then if that customer is a one saw/lifetime sort of customer, how does the dealer make up for working for the customer at a cut rate?

Somewhere in some performance training I was first exposed to the concepts of don`t bring a problem to people up the chain without first thinking it through enough to have atleast one possible solution, and don`t shoot from the hip by stating opinions that you can`t support. I feel like this statement "There are other ways of combating competition that have the potential of providing profits." almost fits into both categories. I`m sorry Tom because I mean no offense, but if you see other means of generating business sustaining revenue by working at a rate less than it takes to keep the shop healthy, please share.

I don`t patently suggest telling a "big box" customer to go away, but on the same token that customer should not expect any special treatment either, and if they want hands on instruction they should have bought from a servicing dealer in the first place. They can get in line with everyone else and it is not very often first come first served, but rather the best customers get the first service. Any other way would be cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Brian`s statement "I don't think that most consumers know of any other option besides the "BOX" Stores." doesn`t hold any water does it, or they wouldn`t be at the dealer`s shop looking for service because they wouldn`t know of it`s existence.

All I see in his statement is a display of the current American attitude of no personal responsibilty or obligation, it`s all about ME. I realize that Brian is probably just offering commentary and it may not be his personal perspective, but you`ve got to admit that the "get away with whatever you can" attitude is pervasive and I don`t see any possible long term benefit to anyone.

My world economy devalued two cents.

Russ

[Jeff]

I have a question here, How does Toms statement "Maintenance and warranty work provide a lot of floor traffic to a "Good" dealer." get to "how does the dealer make up for working for the customer at a cut rate?"


I dont understand how asking a brand dealer to do saw work on a brand saw purchased from another source means he is working for a cut rate?  Does he have something figured in on what he gets on the initial purchase of the saw if purchased from him by increasing his price to compensate for future saw work on those same saws?

"If you dont let me design your website, I refuse to let you give me money to host a website someone else designs"  Thats an analogy that might aply to me. Why would I do that? So I don't have to deal with more customers, just make more money on fewer customers?  I suppose, but then again how many customers did I alienate by having that attitude that will spread the word, and eventually cost me both lines of income?

Russ, maybe I am misuderstanding this whole thing.

[leweee]

Husky(Elux) has no respect for their own dealers when they put corporate profit ahead of good business relations with their own dealers. Bottom line

[jokers]

Hi Jeff,

Perhaps I`m not being clear so I can understand if you aren`t understanding.

When a dealer does warranty repair, the shop reimbursement is lower than what the normal shop rate is. I know, normal shop rate seems exorbitant to most people that never had to cover the overhead that I mentioned previously, but how does a shop rate of say, $60/hr compare to what you get per hour for web development? Do you have the same overhead that a shop with employees has?

Profit margins on saws aren`t that high to begin with and most dealers will bargain to some extent, but even if a dealer sold a saw for only one dollar over cost, it`s one more dollar in his pocket that helps offset working at the warranty rate. Why should a retailer like Lowe`s, who happen to be able to buy much cheaper than other smaller outfits, be able to pocket all the profit and not ever have to worry about covering any warranty work? That`s a bunch of bunk.

As I stated earlier although not too clearly, apparently, there is a much higher likelyhood and incidence of warranty work on equipment sold through retailers like Lowe`s and Sear`s because the equipment is not set up properly when it leaves the store and the customer isn`t given even a small amount of basic use and maintenance instruction.


The way I see it, buying a saw at Lowe`s and then expecting a saw dealer to warranty any problems is like buying a tv at Walmart and then bringing it to Target when it breaks. They more than likely both sell the same brands, so where`s the harm, right?

To return to the question posed in the first statement of your post Jeff, how many repair shops can survive on factory reimbursed warranty rate? What about the work coming in that could actually turn a profit for the dealership that get`s displaced for warranty repairs? Turning a profit is the only way to keep a business healthy. Breaking even only lasts so long.

I understand customer relations but when a customer goes to your competition and buys a product and then wants you to fix it at some cost to yourself, you have to ask yourself, "should I, will I, and, what priority?"

BTW, noone has presented any suggestions as to how warranty work on Lowe`s saws is good for the typical stocking/repairing dealer with normal overhead. Any suggestions?

lewee is right. Husky does not respect their dealers, do they think that most consumers can`t see this when presented with a little info and then wonder how Husky views them?

Russ

[Tom]

I'd be less than honest to say that I'm not a little miffed by the accusation "......don`t bring a problem to people up the chain without first thinking it through enough to have at least one possible solution, and don`t shoot from the hip by stating opinions that you can`t support. "

My intentions weren't and aren't to give a step by step recipe for success.  I will say that it is a foolhardy plan to try to make a success of your business without customers.  

If your new saws provide so little profit and warranty work so little compensation, I can understand why you might not want the "one-in-a-lifetime" customer in your shop.  I would certainly welcome them into my shop, if I had one.  

Since my business is different, so are my challenges.  But, I still need to make a profit to exist. I also need to be the "best" sawyer and "most congenial" sawyer, and "most helpful" sawyer around to make sure that my customers and future customers come to me first.  It's good advertising and it cost money.  This past 3 weeks have been fraught with jobs that cost me money.  I've had days where I grossed 30 dollars and spent 20 dollars in fuel going to and from work.  After a 5 dollar lunch, my profits were 5 dollars.  Get mad at the customer for wanting me to waste my time on 2 logs?  I was already set up.  Get mad at the customer because he had something else pressing to do and couldn't stay the day?  ..........why  "cut off my nose to spite my face".

What did I do?  I took the customers picture and gave him a copy of it.  More money lost?  Nope.  None of it was lost.  I have created a customer that will be loyal.  I have created another string of a "word of mouth" network that will make me money down the road.  This customer will be back.  He will also tell his friends about me.  It's the best advertising in the world.  It's a cost of doing business.   How do you do that without a customer.  I may think that this was a one-log-in-a-lifetime customer, but to run him off because of my impression is a costly assumption.  

What do I do to help make sure he comes back?  I try to make him happy and important. I don't lie to him about his wood.  I don't say bad things about his logs.  I find good things to say to him about the "good" logs or boards and the many things he could do with them besides what he has planned.  I tell him where he can find more logs like that if he wants.  I brag on him for salvaging the logs from the landfill, if that is what he did.   I suggest ways he can make things with that particular wood that will sell.  I tell him of craft shows that are coming up.  I discuss finishes with him.  I try to make him want to find another log and get it sawed up.  I want him back!

You have a prime opportunity to develop a good dealer/customer relationship when that person walks into your shop, regardless of the reason.  You can run him off or you can turn him on.  You can make him wonder why he bothered or you can "nice" him to death.  He's a customer....  the guy with money in his pocket......It's your job to develop him not his to please you.  

Like I mentioned before, problems between the dealer and manufacturer should remain in that arena.  You are only hurting your business when you discourage customers from doing business with you.  If you end up never making any profits then you are in the wrong business or are carrying the wrong products.  It's not the customer's fault.

[beenthere]

Tom, very well put.
That 'box' store customer who gets work done at the local shop and is treated with respect and courtesy, will very likely walk away and think "he treated me well, and I didn't even buy that saw from him".  When this fellow talks to others about his saw purchase in the future, he just may pass a good word along to others that he received good service from this one dealer, such that these others go to this dealer for service, and maybe buy a saw, and accesories (pants, gloves hard hat, boots, oil, file, wedge).
Although not with my chain saw (the 'ol Stihl just wouldn't quit), but with other Stihl 'tools', I bought small and later up-graded at the same dealer. The same might happen with the 'box' store customer who might buy small and then later want to upgrade, and will remember the dealer who treated him decently. Maybe even to the point they would consider each other 'friends' (I do with my Stihl dealer, car dealer, tractor dealer, hardware dealer - all 'friends').

Happy New Year to all.

[Jeff]

Again, I don't see at all where Tom is off base. I am sure he has no idea how a dealer is compensated for warranty work and neither do I, and as a consumer that may want a saw fixed, honestly, I don't care how they are compensated That is between them and the agreement with the manufacturer. If I buy a husky and there is a dealer that is the official location according to the manufacture to have my saw fixed, I would expect him to fix it, just as he would any other husky. I would expect that if he did a good job, that I would return to him as a paying customer when I needed work done after the warranty was expired.

I bought my Husky used. No warranty. Is it right for a husky dealer to turn me down if I need service because I didn't buy it from him?  If he turns me down for that reason I say kiss my you know what on my way out and tell everybody I know how I was treated.

[hydro2]

I bought my saw from Alamia and I can understand very much how a dealer would not want to service my saw!!!  Why should he?  I would be embarrassed to drag my saw to a local dealer and expect him to fix it.  If everyone was like me and bought their saw online or at Lowes, the local dealer would be out of business and then where would I even get parts in a timely manner to repair my saw.  It is not like the dealer won’t sell me part, just because I did not buy my saw from him.   I knew when I purchased online that I would be responsible for any repairs whether the saw was under or warranty or not.  If you are not mechanically inclined, then go to the local dealer and pay more, so that someone will fix it when it breaks!!  Simple!!!!   The local dealer was not good enough to buy a saw from, then why is he good enough to repair it!!!!  You are SOL, end of story!!!!!!!

[etat]

Been keeping my mouth shut but I gotta tell ya.  A factory warranty is a factory warranty. A factory authorized dealer, is just that, a factory authorized dealer.  Don't matter where it comes from that's the way it is if factory, or  company, or dealer  wants to stay in business.  Perhaps Husky does have a problem with it's dealers, or perhaps the dealers have a problem with Husky.  If so, it should be kept in house and not translate to the customer. AND, that SHOULD be, the rest of the story.  Period.  Anything else is sour grapes.

[lucky_cutter]

Hi Stephen
No not a professional. You guys are out of my league. I used to cut a lot of firewood,but am now down to 6-7 cords per year. back in 1980 I used a skil saw to cut my very first two cords. Like many others i made my share of mistakes along the way, but those should go to a different thread. Lucky because there were no mishaps and I have everything still intact. Except my hair.

[Jeff]

You guys are talking like a dealer goes uncompensated for fixing a saw. I dont know a one where I could take my saw (other then good buddy Chet  ) that is going to fix it for free. I don't know a saw dealer around that offers FREE repairs. If they do, well then its just a matter of time that that ole boy goes out of business anyways. The only argument here I can understand would be if a shop is undercompensated by a manufacturer for warranty work. Where he loses money or is doing the work essentially for free.  However, no one has qualified thier remarks to seperate the two. Refusing to work on my saw that I bought used from someone else is the same thing as refusing to work on any saw purchased somewhere else.

[Minnesota_boy]

Having worked in a shop for a number of years, I think there is a problem with doing warranty repairs for a unit bought from a big-box retailer.  If I repair a saw for someone, they pay when they pick it up.  If I sell them a saw and they bring it in for warranty, I have profited on the original sale and have no problem doing the warranty work, even though I may have to wait 30 to 60 days to be compensated by the company.  Sometimes the warranty claim is refused and I can irritate the customer by billing them for the cost of the warranty claim that was denied or just swallow the cost, knowing that the customer will most likely be back to enrichen me somewhere to offset my cost.  When the person walking through the door bought the unit somewhere else, I might hesitate to acccept the chances of the warranty claim being denied and want to send them back to where they bought the saw.  When the place they bought the saw is another dedicated saw shop, I am more willing to risk the loss of a claim denied because I have the chance to capture that customer as my own in the future.  When they bought the saw at Walmart, Lowes, etc. I will likely never see them again and anny loss cannot be made up in future sales.

[Gordon]

One has to remember that there is only so many billable hours in a day. So a small shop may have to refuse some work from time to time because of backlog. When I worked in the R/V industry we used to do warranty work on our customers first then with the remaining time do other dealers customers. Reason being it was a selling point to be able to get quick quality service at our shop.

One of the  main reasons to do work on other dealers stuff---always the chance to sell either service or another unit. You never know.

But our shop was the exception it actually showed a profit on warranty work. Because of proper follow up paper work and also getting PRIOR approvals for work from the factory. That way we were never doing work for free. The average shop does alot of small stuff for free because the factories make it hard to bill the simple stuff. To be successful doing warranty work you have to follow through. Flat rate is flat rate.

my two cents on service work

Gordon

[edge]

I hear a lot of comments here on Husky deciding to sell some of their consumer line saws at Lowes, but nobody ever mentions that Stihl does the exact same thing.  All my local Ace Hardware stores have 4-6 different models of Stihl consumer saws on the shelves, along with some blowers and trimmers.  

This discussion should not be limited to the Husky/Lowes relationship but should include the Stihl/Ace Hardware relationship.  Both manufacturers have realized that they can make some money by selling some lower grade consumer saws to the occasional consumer user at "box" stores.  

What they really need to do is sell the pro-line saws only at dealers, and offer a full, longer term warranty.  Then sell the consumer line stuff at the hardware stores with a narrower warranty.

My main point in posting was to point out that Stihl sells saws through Ace Hardware just like Husky sells saws through Lowes.

[OneWithWood]

I just purchased a Stihl MS460 Magnum at an Ace Hardware store.  The store services what they sell, and anything else that comes in the door.  I had a long talk with the owner and the repairman about a MS440 that I happen to crack the gas tank on.  Intead of trying to sell me a new tank-which is what I originally asked for - they explained how I could fix the tank myself.  They suggested a two part fiberglass epoxy.  I used superglue right out of the tube and it worked, at least for now.  Anyway I was so impressed that they were more concerned that I not spend money needlessly than making a buck that I engaged them in a discusion of modifications to exhausts and high end rpm.  Their answers and suggestions were right on the money.  The conversation turned to the type of cutting I do and what use I put my saws to.  Before I left I purchased the new 460 at a price well below the listed Stihl price.  Not only did I acquire a new saw but I have acquired a new repair service.
There are three other Ace Hardware stores in the surrounding area.  This is the only one that carries Stihl equipment.

[Avalancher]

I think I am a perfect specimen of what everyone is talking about. I bought a Husky 350 from Lowes and had it serviced at the local Husky dealer after the muffler bolts backed themselves out time and time again.
I bought from lowes for two reasons, price and availability. Hurricane Ivan left the local dealers out of saws, and Lowes had a truckload. I have a Husky 372 and a 385. Both were getting too heavy for the cleanup around here, and the bars were to long also. No short bars to be had for weeks.
The local dealer took care of me, and because of that I have been a constant customer since. I buy everything there, they know me by name. I bought a new Husky garden tractor, brushcutter, chipper, and a new foresty helmet. All in told I have spent over $6000 in their shop in the last 5 months. If they had told me to get lost over the warranty repair, guess who would have had my business for everything else?
Right, their competition. No, I wouldnt have bought this stuff from Lowes, but a local equipement dealer.
My wife and I run our own business and many times we have had to Next Day Air a package at our expense to make a customer happy,even though the fault of the mixup is still up in the air. We try and apply the golden rule "treat everyone like you wanted to be treated" and I think that a Husky dealer should do the same. You bought the saw with a warranty, it was part of the price that you paid regardless of where you bought it, and the local dealer signed a contract with Husky to honor that warranty.
It should be a no brainer, both ethically and from a business point of view.

[Dean Hylton]

 I live just 20 minutes from the most cut throat outfit in the chainsaw business; Madsens, and I love it. They undersell every one and out sell the rest. So what does every one else do to compete; provide great service.  I have a small independant saw shop just down the road and I offer convienance at a small mark up. I offer used parts at a discount compared to new and I offer all the freindly conversation a small shop can hand out.  Now I have worked for a few other Dealers and I will tell you that warrenty work is the bread and butter from the boys who have the dollars. The real money though is the UP SELL. Hey how about some oil. Do you have enough mix? I noticed your filing job is irratic; would you like to get into a grinder? I could save you a lot of time. You know a pair of chaps could save your arss.  Need a new file or how about some wedges to keep from pinching your bar? Gloves, bar wrench, tape, pocket knife? How would you like to get a little more performance out of that saw? I could open this up and tweek on that. If those are the only pair of eyes you got; you might want to grab a pair of glasses. Give the saws away at cost and sell, sell, sell all the cool accessories, some pro tools, how about a real Hickory shirt to make em feel like a true logger. Let's not forget about chain and that $4 grind.  Get pissy all you want and send those dollars my way. I don't sell new saws but I am happy to work on every one elses and to load up a happy customer with all the goodies they can carry out. Remember this: The saw brings them in the door so that you can sell them the high proffit items. If some one else is tying all their money up into the door prize; What do you care?

[Varmintmist]

I got into a woodlot and clearinig for my house and I wanted a good saw. I had run Huskys before so that was choice #1, #2 was Stihl.

I looked at 2 dealers and Lowes. Dealer A's prices were MSRP, dealer B was 10 bucks more than Lowes on a 359 and he tossed in a file, a gal of oil, a couple of mixs, and another chain.

Guess who didnt buy at Lowes. Guess who bought another Husky from Dealer B when I wanted a second smaller saw for limbing and little stuff? Guess who got 3 new customers because of me? It wasnt Lowes.

The initial $$ at the box store looks good, but the dealer can sweeten the deal with a few extras and make a customer out of a buyer.

If the dealers can sell the same saw for the same price as Lowes, then Husky shouldnt sell to Lowes. Or the dealer should put the Lowes buyer warrenty work at the bottom of the pile. Do the work, but until the person becomes a customer, he is second class. That happens in every sales/service biz. Car dealers will let it be known outright, they will fix it, but since it was bought somewhere else, it will be done when their customers are taken care of.

[leweee]

Varmintmist..... Welcome to the forum. & RIGHT ON  

[Avalancher]

If the dealers can sell the same saw for the same price as Lowes, then Husky shouldnt sell to Lowes. Or the dealer should put the Lowes buyer warrenty work at the bottom of the pile. Do the work, but until the person becomes a customer, he is second class. That happens in every sales/service biz. Car dealers will let it be known outright, they will fix it, but since it was bought somewhere else, it will be done when their customers are taken care of.

That is a sure fire way to make sure that customer keeps shopping at Lowes. The idea in any business is to show that YOUR business is superior, before or after the intial sale. I bought a saw at lowes because I had no choice, the dealer was out of em thanks to a hurricane in our area. If he had treated me the way you suggest he would have guranteed that I would have kept shopping somewhere else. It was because of his service with a smile that brought me back, and made a valuable customer out of me. It is far better to convert a customer than to punish them for their supposed misdeeds of shopping somewhere else. Think of it another way, it is entirely possible that some folks have no knowledge of a local chainsaw shop until they need service, some folks buy all their junk at Lowes or some other box store. What a perfect way to take a customer away from Lowes by providing a better service than what Lowes provides.
Why should your work go to the bottom of the pile just because you bought it somewhere else? That makes zero sense and a sure fire way to tick someone off.

[Buzz-sawyer]

Another point is that, arent you service guys in the business of doin service, ?
Dont make your living by fixing saws and selling related products to people who use saws and get them repaired at your shop?
Dont you want more people walkin through the door?

Isnt that a good thing.......??
It does sound like some of you feel slighted or resentful that people are buying thier saws at a chain store...doesnt seem to make good buisiness sense... Best wishes though

[Jeff]

Thats sort of the sense I get just by reading the posts and trying to make reason of the whole thing. Seems the real problem is between dealers and the manufactures. The dealers have a beef with how the manufactures 1. create competition and 2. compensate them for warranty work. But what seems to happen is that the dealers, apparently because they have no other recourse, end up taking it out on what I will call their "non-customer".

I am another case in point. I have easy access to a lowes and a home depot. But, since I was treated right at the husky dealer when having trouble with the rewind spring, after buying my saw used somewhere else, every dime I have spent  since related to that saw has been with the husky shop. Probably not a lot by many's standards, but a chain, bar, plug, all my mix and bar oil, files and a plastic bar guard.  I am not a logger, and I have no use for my own chainsaw at this point other then what the average joe home owner would have. I very well may have bought that saw at the box store rather then a private individual. The saw guy never asked. He just helped me out, and I paid him. He didnt seem to upset as he made change.

[jokers]

I gave up trying to rebutt any of the statements from you guys who can`t see a dealer`s point of view here when I realized that none of you are paying attention to what had already been posted. There is very little discussion going on in this thread, mostly just guys throwing shallow opinions out there without considering any other viewpoint put before them.

At any rate, I don`t recall seeing where anyone had anything taken out on them by an angry or vindictive dealer. There was much conjecture that this would happen but where are the examples?

I think that alot of the conjecture stems from the fact that most people have an innate feeling of guilt when they are put in the position of having a servicing DEALER repair their equipment bought at another place, under obligation of the factory warranty. Furthermore, who among us can say that they didn`t know that factory reimbursement for warranty repair is waaay below normal shop rate. I`m sure that some people figure the factory is paying what it really costs to perform the repairs but these same people probably figure there is money to be made in $4 chain sharpenings, which is BTW done to both offer a perk to regular customers and draw new customers in. Don`t offer to me as an example the retired guy in town who appears to be making money sharpening chains and saw blades for a few bucks. Consider that he probably doesn`t have any payroll, overhead for facilities, and more than a few thousand bucks in equipment, if that. That guy has already earned his pension and lifetime benefits coverage somewhere else.

Factory warranty reimbursement pays for a technicians wage and benefits  and some training with little regard for all the other costs of maintaining a shop, and the manufacturers aren`t anxious to pay even that much.

The whole argument started when Tom stated that he thought Husky was doing a good thing for the customer and I offered the counterpoint that Husky is doing it at the expense of the Real dealers who are required to service the equipment and carry an inventory of parts for it without getting a piece of the initial action, while the "big box" retailers like Lowe`s just sit back and take the money.

What I saw in this thread were typical examples of selfish customers who always think they are right without regard to the symbiotic relationship that exists when a product will require service and parts during it`s normal, useful life.

When you buy from the "Big boxes" they don`t foster any illusion that they will provide follow-up service beyond return or exchange and consequently I have no regard for their bottom line, but when buying a truck for example, I know that the dealer will provide me atleast a modicum of service and I don`t expect them to sell me everything at their cost. They give me a break on the little stuff required along the way and I accept that they have overhead such as a service facility, parts inventory, wages, insurance, working cash reserve and good credit line, payroll, income, and property taxes that all need to be paid if they as a business are to remain healthy and available to me when I need service.

Having a box store come to town that gets a PILOT(payment in lieu of taxes) offering a fraction of their fair share of taxes to the local base tax base, who then employ a bunch of people at a small amount above minimum wage while offering no benefits, doesn`t seem like a big catch to me. Sure it`s convenient to run down and grab some building supplies after normal business hours but the material they stock isn`t any better priced and typically not as good as what I can get from the smaller established guys in town and I know that I won`t get any service beyond helping me get cashed out. How can anyone say that buying machinery from them makes good long term sense?

If the basis of this whole thread is this statement by Brian B., "I just got off the phone with the closest Husqvarna dealer and his prices were exactly the same as Lowe’s and he admitted it to me. He even went as far to say that if I were to buy it from Lowe’s that they would send me with any warranty work to him, and that he would probably be too busy to service it.", has anyone else considered the implied context of the converation between Brian and the dealer that must have lead to this statement? It seems apparent to me that Brian tried to leverage a better price from the dealer by mentioning that he could buy it from Lowe`s.

I`m not condoning the response of that particular dealer in having a take it or leave it attitude, especially when selling at full retail, but being human I can relate to the emotional response that most humans feel when being challenged. Has anyone who has replied to this thread ever said anything based on an emotional response that they`d wished they hadn`t or possibly might not say under any other circumstances?

Russ

[Jeff]

The whole argument started when Tom stated that he thought Husky was doing a good thing for the customer

Tom said no such thing. That is your interpretation of what Tom said.

Tom said:
" I was happy with the reply that Jacob of Husqvarna provided" and feel that they are making an effort to be a good customer oriented organization[/quote]

[leweee]

Has anyone who has replied to this thread ever said anything based on an emotional response that they`d wished they hadn`t or possibly might not say under any other circumstances?

Russ

Thanks Russ... and to answer your question  YES

[Jeff]

Tom said no such thing. That is your interpretation of what Tom said.

Tom said:
" I was happy with the reply that Jacob of Husqvarna provided" and feel that they are making an effort to be a good customer oriented organization

He never said they were doing a good thing, he never said it was a good thing, he said that he felt, byt the reply that he recieved, that they were making an effort. Simply replying to Toms email is prove of that. An effort was made by that simple thing. An email that could have been ignored.

Furthermore, who among us can say that they didn`t know that factory reimbursement for warranty repair is waaay below normal shop rate.

I would have to say that everyone of us that is not a dealer or worked for a dealer.

[jokers]

Jeff,

It seems like semantics to look for a distinction between Tom`s statement " I was happy with the reply that Jacob of Husqvarna provided and feel that they are making an effort to be a good customer oriented organization " and my view  "The whole argument started when Tom stated that he thought Husky was doing a good thing for the customer".

I know that discussions or arguments often involve quibbling but I`d rather not quibble. I think my statement says the same thing as Tom`s but if it`s not clear, then let me inform you that is my intent.

"I would have to say that everyone of us that is not a dealer or worked for a dealer."

I don`t believe that.

Russ

[Jeff]

O.K., how would we know?  Wouldn't you think I might know since I have work in a sawmill all my life?  I don't know, or at least I din't until this thread, but I really still don't know. I have learned on this thread, that apparently they (the dealers) feel they are not (fairly compensated). No one else that is not a dealer or worked for a dealer knows unless they tell us that. Do they? If I walked into a dealer with a saw for warranty work would they say " You realize we are losing money on this work because we are unfairly compensated for it"? " well, if not, you should."

And you are still changing Toms words and making them say what you want. I know exactly what he said because I read it, and I know exactly what he meant because we talk on the phone regularly and he told me.

I am unslanted on this issue, I just found it interesting. I lump myself into the joe homeowner type of saw owner. However, now, by reading this thread, and your comments for the most part, I find myself coming away from this with with a little distain if all dealers all harbor your feelings towards the manufaturer and thier customers. I think I would rather deal direct and not have a warranty and find someone that appreciates my dollar when I need help .  

[Dean Hylton]

Just a little self defense here.  I am not retired or have a pension. I am 33 years old with a wife and 4 children at home. This is our sole income. We have had the shop open now for 4 months. I started out with just myself and Starting on Monday I will be adding my second part time employee. (not that I do not want a full timer but all the people who are good workers already have jobs.) I do not pay a great wage but $15/hr. is nothing to sneeze at. Although at this wage for my employees I am not getting rich off of chain grinds there is a great bennifit from it in the future. Every time some one comes in it builds a relationship. When they are looking at getting a saw repaired, they go to the person they are friends with. If you are not making a big profit from the warrenty work, try thinking of it as reduced cost advertising and if you have to figure a way to right it off as such. Also do not forget about trade ins. Most people aspire to have the best; so use that to get them to step up into a new pro saw at some point. Every time they come into the store for a grind they are more likely to see something they need or WANT. If I can clear $5 per hour off of an employee then what more can I ask, as it is a profit for time I did not have. I am not looking to make my fortune over night, just a living and maybe a few more friends.  The Lord has been good to us.    Oh by the way; for those who say it's only been 4 months just wait. Those 4 months have been in the winter and we started this quarter in the BLACK. Attitude makes the differance and customers.

[Brian_B.]

Well I sure hope that I haven't gotten anyone’s Blood Pressure up over this!  

I had never talked to that Husky dealer before.

I  WAS  feeling him out to see what his prices were.

I did not try to dicker with him nor did I intend on dickering with him over the phone.

At the time I was still debating which brand of saw to buy.

[Dean Hylton]

By the way I have worked for 2 differant shops with 3 differant manufacturers; Husqvarna, Red Maxx and Solo. Warrenty work is the bread and butter. It may not make you rich but it is always dollars flowing in. If  you are having trouble with making it with warrenty work then the business plan was too lofty in the first place.

[Jeff]

I will take my business to Dean's attitude.   He just told me and made me feel like I am an appreciated customer, the part of a business that provides the revenue, not like someone's annoyance. I would rather my visit to my chainsaw repair man was a more pleasant experience then a visit to my proctologist who probably  views me as just another you know what.

[Jeff]

Brian_B., not a problem here. There is nothing wrong with a good healthy discussion. Sure, it may raise some emotion, but as you see, at least on this forum, it also raises up issues that may actually benefit the majority though a better understanding on just how things work.

There have been no personal attacks here, and there wont be.  

[Dean Hylton]

Thank you Jeff, but that hole proctoligist comment just caused my computer screen to get a coffee shower.

[Striker]

One of my brothers in law works as a mechanic for a Chevy dealership. He gets paid flat rate for the work he does. He also gets paid less for warranty work because GM  won't pay full shop rate for the work. I am assuming that this is generally the way it is regardless if it is cars, saws, tractors, or refridgerators and regardless of the company involved.

Jeff

[Dean Hylton]

Sure it's less, but do you base your living expenses off of over time or do you base it off  your regular work week minus 10%. As far as I am concerned there are a lot of dealers out there who have gotten spoiled. This is exactly why I opened my own shop, because I seen that there is room for a person who is willing to work a little.  With that said though I do feel like Husqvarna has put the shaft to it's dealers. Not by mass selling their saws ( the dealers should have seen that coming by the way Electrolux has been buying everything up; it was only a matter of time) but by putting them in a box store rather than being exclusive, it dulls the luster of being exclusive and some how better than the average. I believe that their marketing is for the short game and not the long haul and it may even be a wise move for dealers to look at other makers such as Solo or Dolmar who are breaking into the market again with some really nice pro saws here in the states. Most people equate price to value and a little mistique goes a long ways toward desirabIlity.  Husqvarna is loosing both and fast. I just hope Stihl is watching and learning from their mistakes.  ONLY MY OPINIONS

[Dean Hylton]

Oh yeh. One other thought while I am bashing the powers that be at Husqvarna; what is going to happen when swarms of non saw people get a hold of the home owner saws and tear them up because of a lack of knowledge? OF course the newby will never blame themselves, they will blame the saw. I believe that this is going to hurt Husqvarnas good reputation

[lucky_cutter]

This was an entertaining and informative thread. I am glad I found a forum where people can get there point across without resorting to bashing and name calling. It is clear that this subject hits close to home for many. I'd like to tell a short story about my father in law. When he first moved to Oregon he had the pleasure of finding a couple of roofing nails in his tire. The first tire store brushed him off because he was not a customer. The second place he went to cheerfully fixed the flat for no charge. All they asked was that he would stop by and shop when he needed new tires. Guess where he bought his next set (and all his future tires) Guess where his nine kids shop for tires. Guess where his 18 grand kids go. That original flat tire repair was one heck of an investment!

[Avalancher]

Well said lucky_cutter, you drove home the point that I have been trying to make. Maybe you wont make a ton of money on that first intial repair, but as you pointed out you WILL make a customer for life. It doesnt matter to me if its tires, chainsaws, or electronics, I will always go where I get the best service.
One thing that kind of makes a point stick in my head, has anyone noticed that Lowes does make kind of a distinction between the Husky saws and all the rest of the garbage? At least in my local Lowes they are kept on an end cap, away from the rest of the saws. I happened to be plumbing this weekend and stopped for some parts and this conversation made me swing past the saws. They have their own shelf along with their own bar oil, mix, and accesories. At least they are paying a little homage to Husky by making a destinction between Poulan junk and a quality saw. Maybe that is one of the requirments by Husky?

[Avalancher]

One point that I forgot to bring up, has anyone noticed that Home Depot sells John Deere tractors? And believe it or not, they are not actually John Deere! A buddy of mine bought one, and had to swing past the local Deere dealer for some parts. He said he had a model "blah blah". Got the part home and it didnt fit. He went back kinda mad and requested the right part. After much figuring the counter guy asked him again the model number. He spilled it out, this time in its entirity. The counter guy said that the one letter that he omitted denoted that tractor as a Home Depot tractor,and not the same as the one sitting there in the show room. When asked what the difference was he was told that all Home Depot John Deere tractors are made by a company bought out by John Deere, and the whole lot is designated as Home Depot John Deere, not the same as the rest of em. Differences like cutting deck gauge, 12 gauge material instead of 10 gauge are readily apparent in a close scrutiny, and often the set up and controls are different between the real Deere's and the Home Depot knock offs. Guess that explans the often $500 difference between what appears as identical model numbers between the local dealer and Home Depot.
Standing by for the bashing of John Deere and Home Depot...

[Varmintmist]

That is a sure fire way to make sure that customer keeps shopping at Lowes.

Do you think they will tell you that your stuff goes to the back?? If you think it doesnt happen as a matter of course than you have never had a car in for work at a dealer that you didnt buy from. They HAVE to repair it as they should to keep the franchise. They DO NOT have to serve you like a full customer.

The idea in any business is to show that YOUR business is superior, before or after the intial sale.

You are right, like I said, you will NEVER know if your saw was back burnered while they had a bunch of customer work.

I bought a saw at lowes because I had no choice, the dealer was out of em thanks to a hurricane in our area. If he had treated me the way you suggest he would have guranteed that I would have kept shopping somewhere else.

Your situation is about as extreme as it can get. You bet he was there to work on your saw, he didnt have a saw for you to buy when you wanted to buy. His fault, storm or not. He wanted you as a customer, you tried to be a customer, he couldnt pull it off, you came back anyway.

It was because of his service with a smile that brought me back, and made a valuable customer out of me.

Zactly  

It is far better to convert a customer than to punish them for their supposed misdeeds of shopping somewhere else. Think of it another way, it is entirely possible that some folks have no knowledge of a local chainsaw shop until they need service, some folks buy all their junk at Lowes or some other box store. What a perfect way to take a customer away from Lowes by providing a better service than what Lowes provides.

First, if you cant find a local dealer, there are a few things happining. 1, there are no local dealers. 2, the customer never looked for a local dealer. If it is the first case, then service isnt a factor, if it is the second, the customer didnt take the time to look for a dealer, and probably wont the next time. You stated it yourself "some folks buy all their junk at Lowes or some other box store" and they ALWAYS will.

Why should your work go to the bottom of the pile just because you bought it somewhere else? That makes zero sense and a sure fire way to tick someone off.

Because the dealer, car, truck, heavy equipment, chainsaw, has a implied agreement with his customers first, and the manufacturer second. On paper or not, that is how it works.

Let me put it this way. I have bought everything for cutting trees from my dealer (you) but gas. You know me by name. I bring a saw in that I bought there from you and Joe Schmuckatelli  off the street brings a saw in he bought from Lowes. I have ALREADY dropped a grand + at your store. You know that I have ALREADY brought in 3 customers. Who are you going to take the most care of FIRST? A sure thing? Or a possibility.  

You are going to service both saws, just pick the one you want to work on first.

You make the call  

[Avalancher]

The idea is to make repairs in the order in which they are received. Sure, some things may hinder repairs, or the order in which they are handled like availability of parts, how complex one repair is compared to another. But look at it this way, why wouldnt I give the Lowes customer better service over you? You already have spent a ton of cash in my shop, and probably always will so it makes sense to try and go the extra mile for that new customer in the hope he will become the same kind of customer you are, a steady repeater.

[Varmintmist]

1, because he cannot become the same customer as I. He already made the major purchase.

2, I am a known quantity. The 3 additional known customers I have brought in will know how I was treated.

This isnt an argument. Most dealers of any machine that is backed by a factory name work this way. That is life, and as it should be. You will be served by the dealer.  

My opinion, if you are a good customer, then you should be served better. That is NOT saying that you treat the new guy badly, you just give a little extra to the guy that you know is willing to spend money at your store. Not just forced there due to lack of options. You treat the Lowes guy well, and hope for a new customer, you treat the known guy a little better because word of mouth is a lot better than getting a walk in.

[hydro2]

I see you are from Chicora PA.  I grew up in Chicora!!

[Jeff]

I see why ya left now. The critters carry rocket launchers.

[leweee]

Jeff ... This thread is tuffer to kill than a carp outta water (ice fishen)on a thawing day. it just won't die wish I had a SAW this tuff.

[Varmintmist]

Da varmints shoot back here



I am a import. I kinda like it. Far enough out to own a decent patch of woods, close enough for work. Not quite as rural as where I was raised, but not bad.

[hydro2]

I now live in Hillville and teach in Chicora

[Jake_S]

Hey guy's,
I'm the Husqvarna rep that replied back to Tom's query. I understand what a lot of you say about Lowe's just selling the product, but Lowe's also performs service work. True, they have to send the unit off site for repair, but they are required just like every other Husqvarna dealer to repair our equipment.
 The main problem is between us and the dealers because of our marketing plan, but the customer tend to get stuck in the middle. Fortunately for our customers, we have a large network of dealers that are wiling to work on a unit that was not purchased from them. Those dealers are the successful ones, the "non-customer" have been converted into customers that buy everything from those dealer's, and they refuse to go someplace else.
 We understand that being a dealer is tough, especially when it seems that the manufacturer is driving buisness away from you, that is why we have a minimum price for all of our units, and we WILL pay the posted shop labor rate for warranty work, provided the dealer correctly, and completely, sends in the proper paperwork, after meeting the requirements. Without our dealers, we would go bankrupt.
On that note, I would like to thank all of our dealers for what you do, I have spoken with many, and our customers for giving us a reason for making the products that we do.
Jake

[Jeff]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum Jake.  Yer just in time. I'm thinking this thread was about to turn to talking about something good to eat at any moment. We tend to do that around here.  

[leweee]

Were's that CARP ..... It's SUPPERTIME.

[Tom]

I'm impressed that you showed up, Jake. It's not too many Reps of any manufacturer that would take the time out of his day to respond to a conversation on a Forum like this.  You're welcome anytime whether it's a Husky conversation or not.  We have something going on for everybody, somewhere, all of the time.  

While there are a lot of good saws on the market, I can't seem to kill my 61  It's going on eleven years in my portable custom sawing business, now.  I like it.

[Avalancher]

Hmmm..... havent seen any Stihl reps lurking about on these here boards........



No, No, No! I am not trying to start anything!

[MSU_Keith]

Jake - I noticed on the Husky web site that some Lowes are marked as service dealers and some are not.  Does this mean that the service is done on site at these locations? Or does it still go to a central or closest local service location?

I have never seen a big box store with any sort of service department but they could be moving in that direction.

[Avalancher]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum Jake.  Yer just in time. I'm thinking this thread was about to turn to talking about something good to eat at any moment. We tend to do that around here.  

Lets talk about pizza. Any ole kind of pizza. Ham and Pineapple. Pepperoni and anchovies. Spam and onions with extra cheese.
Shoot, lets even throw on some grits to give it some fiber.

[SwampDonkey]

Well, I'm just gonna make a quick note by saying if it weren't for the local saw dealers sthil or husky I wouldn't have bought my thinning saw or my chainsaw. Don't even ask me to go to a 'box' outfit. I've had staff at those places tell me 'I think we have that in stock but I'm not going to bother to look'. This is a nation-wide chain. Then there's the classic, 'so and so is out there someplace' and they leave you standing there as if your suppose to go look for someone you don't even know in the warehouse.

[Gordon]

Hey guy's,
I'm the Husqvarna rep that replied back to Tom's query. We WILL pay the posted shop labor rate for warranty work, provided the dealer correctly, and completely, sends in the proper paperwork, after meeting the requirements. Without our dealers, we would go bankrupt.
On that note, I would like to thank all of our dealers for what you do, I have spoken with many, and our customers for giving us a reason for making the products that we do.
Jake

The dealer has to take the time to fill out the proper paperwork, but alot of dealers either don't want to take the time to fill out the paper work or don't fill it out correctly. It's a two sided sword.

Hay and thanks Jake for taking the time for a reply.

Gordon