The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:




TimberKing Sawmills




Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Forest Products Industry Insurance


Norwood Industries Inc.


Sawmill & Woodlot Magazine



Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades


Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

Woodshax Outdoor Vending Solutions

FARMA

Forestry Forum Tool Box

Author Topic: Splitter questions.  (Read 1380 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Hilltop366

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1846
  • Location: Nova Scotia
  • Gender: Male
Re: Splitter questions.
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2017, 08:08:19 am »
Well thats no fun.

There is a lot of leverage on that back mount with the cylinder that high off the beam.

I have straightened a bent rod before in a hydraulic press.

Could look into making a mount that would go over the gland end of the cylinder to reduce the length of the unsupported cylinder by half.

Check the pressure relief setting as well.

Offline hedgerow

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
  • I'm new!
Re: Splitter questions.
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2017, 08:54:39 am »
That is the problem with multi wedges. You better have a pressure gauge and watch your psi and you better have a strong splitter or you will have broken parts.  Good luck on the repair. I too have straighten bent rams in the press usually works ok.

Offline barbender

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5099
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Deer River MN
  • Gender: Male
Re: Splitter questions.
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2017, 12:24:23 pm »
The one time I tried to straighten a bent rod in a press, it didn't go well👎
Too many irons in the fire

Offline jmur1

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 47
  • Wood is King
Re: Splitter questions.
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2017, 01:59:51 pm »
Hi  overclocking:
 
Tough one.  The flame cut surface of the notched plate (where your cylinder back pin is mounted) was likely a good start for the crack that eventually became the plate fail.  Make sure you fill the area with weld when you get it repaired - round off as much as you can.

I checked a similar layout of plates for you to see the difference.  See pics - below

I had a similar fail on my splitter cylinder and then upgraded it to a larger diameter ram (at the local hydraulics shop)  Wasn't that cheap to get done but did improve the speed of travel noticeably (less oil to move), and hasn't failed again.     




 

The rounded one has about half the stress at the peak.  I used 40,000 lbs ram load on the pin.

 

 

Easy does it

Offline dave_dj1

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 157
  • I'm new!
Re: Splitter questions.
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2017, 03:35:08 pm »
Bummer, but at least now you have a project  8)
I have been known to straighten things in my horizontal gas powered hydraulic press brake (AKA log splitter) LOL
Do you know someone with another splitter close by? Take some pieces of 4x4 or 6x6 and set it up properly and take small steps.

Offline overclocking

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
  • Location: Upstate, NY
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: Splitter questions.
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2017, 04:21:05 pm »
Hi  overclocking:
 
Tough one.  The flame cut surface of the notched plate (where your cylinder back pin is mounted) was likely a good start for the crack that eventually became the plate fail.  Make sure you fill the area with weld when you get it repaired - round off as much as you can.

I checked a similar layout of plates for you to see the difference.  See pics - below

I had a similar fail on my splitter cylinder and then upgraded it to a larger diameter ram (at the local hydraulics shop)  Wasn't that cheap to get done but did improve the speed of travel noticeably (less oil to move), and hasn't failed again.     




 (Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

The rounded one has about half the stress at the peak.  I used 40,000 lbs ram load on the pin.

 

 (Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Thanks for the insight. I looked at the splitter this beam came off and it looks like whoever added the longer cylinder cut away some material to fit it and like you said thats why it broke. 

 

That's a really cool program, I am looking for a program to help me redesign this splitter as well as a firewood processor. Would that program work well for that?


Also, I thought adding a bigger ram decreased travel speed due to holding a higher volume of fluid?

What I am likely going to do is just toss this cylinder out and get a 32 inch travel 5 inch cylinder so that it doesn't happen again, but I am going to cut this whole thing apart and start from scratch next time.  The relief pressure of the spool was 2750 and this ram was likely only rated at 2500 or less. The pump was rated at 3000psi at 3000 rpm, the tach usually runs around 3-3100 rpm max.

Offline jmur1

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 47
  • Wood is King
Re: Splitter questions.
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2017, 08:42:39 pm »
Hi  overclocking:
 
Tough one.  The flame cut surface of the notched plate (where your cylinder back pin is mounted) was likely a good start for the crack that eventually became the plate fail.  Make sure you fill the area with weld when you get it repaired - round off as much as you can.

I checked a similar layout of plates for you to see the difference.  See pics - below

I had a similar fail on my splitter cylinder and then upgraded it to a larger diameter ram (at the local hydraulics shop)  Wasn't that cheap to get done but did improve the speed of travel noticeably (less oil to move), and hasn't failed again.     




 (Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

The rounded one has about half the stress at the peak.  I used 40,000 lbs ram load on the pin.

 

 (Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Thanks for the insight. I looked at the splitter this beam came off and it looks like whoever added the longer cylinder cut away some material to fit it and like you said thats why it broke. 

 (Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

That's a really cool program, I am looking for a program to help me redesign this splitter as well as a firewood processor. Would that program work well for that?


Also, I thought adding a bigger ram decreased travel speed due to holding a higher volume of fluid?

What I am likely going to do is just toss this cylinder out and get a 32 inch travel 5 inch cylinder so that it doesn't happen again, but I am going to cut this whole thing apart and start from scratch next time.  The relief pressure of the spool was 2750 and this ram was likely only rated at 2500 or less. The pump was rated at 3000psi at 3000 rpm, the tach usually runs around 3-3100 rpm max.


Hi overclocking:
The program is handy to have.  - its quite pricey to own ~$15k. 

https://www.ptc.com/en/cad/3d-design/parts-and-assembly-modeling



The overall volume of the cylinder is decreased when you increase the ram size.  I had a 2" ram and upgraded it to 3".  They had to rework the cylinder end hole and seals and the inner connection to the baffle.  They charged me ~$765



 

Note the outer cylinder size stays the same so the oil required to move is reduced.  It does not affect the push power because the ram end is the same size. 
Easy does it

Offline Al_Smith

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 8908
  • Location: Northwestern Ohio in the center of a giant corn field
  • Gender: Male
Re: Splitter questions.
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2017, 06:54:58 am »
The problem with that installation is the fact only the tail end of the cylinder is anchored .Yes I know there are several makes of commercial splitters made that way but it's not the best idea .
With a welded cylinder like that here isn't much you can do to repair a bend shaft .Not saying it's an impossibility just difficult .
The power of the prime mover has little to do with amount of force the hydraulics can produce .With a high pressure low volume pump 5 HP could have done the same thing .A company by the name of Farval makes lube pumps for machinery lubrication  that only use a 1/2 HP motor but 10,000 Psi that will blow a steel lube line apart like it had a bomb inside of it .

Online TKehl

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 638
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Sedalia, MO
  • Gender: Male
  • Certified Contrarian
    • Kehlhof Ranch
Re: Splitter questions.
« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2017, 08:43:55 am »
Darn thing is how expensive new cylinders are.  You may be able to get another used splitter for the same $ if you are buying a brand new cylinder.  I paid $450 for my splitter.

Most splitter builds around here go like this.

1.  Find a cylinder and sturdy beam.  Everything else will be built around them.
2.  Find a junk lawnmower or other small engine.
3.  Buy a hydraulic pump & valves unless you were lucky enough to scrounge them.
4.  Scrounge the rest of the steel needed from junk equipment.  If in doubt, add more steel. 

 ;)
Lucas 6-13+slabber, Mr. Sawmill bandmill, orange chainsaws, JD SSL, Case Backhoe, farm tractors, trailers, and 150ish acres of trees.  Fledgling woodshop with CNC router, laser engraver, Woodmaster 712, and a Berlin 108 moulder (project).  Oh, and a lovely (patient) wife and four offbearers.