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Author Topic: Gearmatic 19 issues  (Read 1384 times)

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Offline Woodboogah

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Gearmatic 19 issues
« on: July 20, 2017, 05:30:35 pm »
Hello All!  I come seeking some knowledge and see if I (we) cant figure out the issue I am experiencing.  Bear with me please

It all started when the O ring from the cap on the winch control inside the cab finally gave out.  No problem.  I replaced that.  Upon replacing the line that controls winching in started weeping....this is where my problems really start.  I got a new line and put it on.  I started to bleed system and couldnt keep pressure.  It would winch in if I really put pressure on the handle then slip a little.  I started digging a little but and found the compression fitting inside the small cover was weeping by.  I replaced the whole 1/4" line and started bleeding again.  I have the winch so it winches in (still with a lot of pressure on handle) under load I have to really reef on the handle and it still wont winch a mid size hitch.  When I lift handle to free spool it will release and free spools somewhat ok.  When I pull by hand I really got to pull but it eventually come free.  The drag adjustment is all the way out at the moment.  I was assuming since everything was working before replacing what I thought was minor stuff that bleed system and go!  Not the case.  I've never had apart passed where I am at and dont really trust myself to go further not knowing what I am doing.  Does this sound like a band adjustment issue, air issue still, or something else?   I am really at a loss not knowing much about them, and extremely frustrated.  Any insight, help, whatever would be greatly appreciated.      Before all this started it was working as it should pulling really strong.  I have taken apart controller to make sure rubber cups are intact and everything is clean and free from debris too.  Thank you
Keenan Logging & Tree Care, LLC

Offline coxy

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2017, 10:17:47 pm »
 :D welcome to the g matic world  they are simple to work on don't need 10 years of collage    if every thing was working fine till you rebuilt the control part you have air air and more air  to get the air fully out of the clutch side take the  big cover off there is 2 threaded spots in the cover to screw in the bolts to pull the cover just watch its heavy but not bad  after getting the cover off you will see the clutch line running through the winch to a cylinder that works the clutch bands loosen the line just as it goes in the cylinder to get the air out just don't for get to put the line on before trying to bleed  :-X  you can try to winch with the cover off just be carefull the out side brake band doesn't pop off  you will get a little air back in the line after you take it apart to put the cover back on but when I take the line apart I hold it up higher than the master control so fluid don't run out after the cover is on just bleed the crap out of it where the line goes to the little nipple that's under the small outer cover   as for the brake I never got air on that side of the control till the other day after working on the clutch side  I released the brake and bleed it on top of the winch 3 times and the brake worked fine  as I said I have never got air on the brake side of the control by working on the clutch side till the other day I guess first time for every thing  don't be afraid to rip in it they are easy to work on  ;D I'm shur other people will chime in with some other good tricks also  good luck keep us posted on what you find out  p.s don't forget to put a good rag in there to get the brake fluid so it don't go on the clutch or brake bands when bleeding the inside

Offline Woodboogah

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2017, 06:24:55 am »
Thank you.  I'm dedicating my day tomorrow to getting it running.  I have never had this much of an issue with bleeding air out of the system!  Thanks again
Keenan Logging & Tree Care, LLC

Offline Spartan

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2017, 07:11:12 am »
They can be a bear.  One thing I have experienced is this.  Sometimes the hydraulic fitting on the hose doesn't really fit that well on the flare fitting.  depending on what brand hose and thread pitch.  The result can be that although you think its on and tight, its not, and it won't visibly leak but will suck air.  I have had to reef on some of them to get them to seal, but be careful not to strip them.  also check the flange on the flare fittings to make sure they are not dinged or wore.  It does sound like an air problem to me to.  I use a mighty vac if I can't get it manually to suck the fluid through.  You also have two rubber brake cups. one in the clutch slave, the other in the master.  those can go bad and get cracks or holes in them that will leak pressure.  If you can't get it with bleeding, might be worth a shot to check those too.

Offline Woodboogah

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2017, 10:37:24 am »
I dove into the guts of the winch this morning. Thanks to previous posts giving me some confidence. Anyways, I found a bunch of fluid and grime in there. The culprit is a tear in the rubber cup in side. How does that come out?  I'm assuming since bands are wet they'll need replacing? 
Keenan Logging & Tree Care, LLC

Offline North River Energy

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2017, 11:37:10 am »
What's the cup size?

I have a few spare, but I don't remember if they are for a model 9 or 19.

Offline Spartan

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2017, 05:34:12 pm »
You talking about the brake cup inside the slave?  take the rod out of the end of the slave, remove the rubber boot, then bump your clutch lever and it will push out.  you have a solid piece that will come out first, then your cup.  Most of those can get by with a 1", but if you can find one that is 1 and 1/32 that fits better.  Most auto parts stores will carry them.  crack the fitting upstream from the slave when you install it all back together, helps it push in easier.

take your bands out and spray them with brake cleaner and wire brush them,  unless they are falling apart, i dont think you need to replace them.
I clean mine that way and can break cable all day long.

Offline coxy

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2017, 05:38:16 pm »
are you talking about the clutch cylinder in the winch if so you can rebuild it in there they are a pita to get out most of the time they get damaged trying to get them out you can get the rubber from a parts store if the bands are real wet toss them in the trash I know some say bake them put them in cat litter  what ever else I just toss them I know there expensive but its not worth the aggravation to me pulling the winch back apart  one and done  :) when adjusting the clutch bands I use a hack saw blade between the band and drum

Offline Spartan

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2017, 10:00:16 pm »
I wouldn't replace anything until you know for sure the leaks are fixed.

Offline Woodboogah

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2017, 11:31:20 am »
I ended up getting a rebuild kit and new bands.  If I am going to take it apart I might as well put all new back in.  The bands are really wet.  It looks like a straight forward job to do, maybe just time consuming?  We will see, have to wait for some dry weather. 
Keenan Logging & Tree Care, LLC

Offline coxy

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2017, 02:49:40 pm »
after you do it a few hundred times it way less than a hour to do all the bands 

Offline Ed_K

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2017, 03:05:52 pm »
 Hardest part is taking the big cover off  ;D .
Ed K

Offline coxy

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2017, 03:26:20 pm »
Ed_k the hardest thing I ever had trouble with was them stupid allen bolts on the gland cover they always strip out after a few times taking them out so now I put new ones in every other time its apart  the big cover is a finger pincher/smashing pile of poo ;D

Offline Ed_K

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2017, 03:37:41 pm »
 Coxy, I bought a short allen socket so I could push in on the socket wrench. They've held up pretty good.
Ed K

Offline Woodboogah

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2017, 06:36:04 am »
Well I did it.  Everything went smooth.  Easier than expected.  Took my time and cleaned everything while I was in there.  Pulls like a son of a gun!  The only issue I am having is getting the winch to free spool enough so I can pull it by hand.  I can get it to spool out while idling machine forward.  Maybe still needs a little bleeding?
Keenan Logging & Tree Care, LLC

Offline coxy

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2017, 06:55:23 am »
the brake line on top of the winch try that like I said I never had any trouble with any of my g matic getting air in the brake side while working on the clutch side till a few weeks ago I put it in release and bled a few times also you didn't put the brake drag to tight did you its the little thing on top of the winch I take mine out ya it free spools like mad with it out but so does most older jd winches just have to be a little careful when free spooling that's another reason for running 50-75ft of cable most times you never pull that much out anyway another thing you didn't loose any of them little shims did you  may also have the clutch bands to tight try backing them off a little  if you don't have any luck

Offline Woodboogah

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2017, 06:31:20 am »
I had to replace brake cylinder, or rebuild I guess.  There was a tiny tear in there as well.  So everything is back to working.  I messed with it a bunch yest. and seems to be good. Still having a hard time in freespool.  It pulls hard, releases fine.  I can move the line but it feels like Ill blow my back out.  In the manual I have the picture for adjusting the brake is a black blob from being photo copied.  I have the drag adjustment out, all the shims were saved and back in.  I am going to run it today and hopefully after some time it'll free up some.  I did burnish the bands too.  If I cannot get it to loosen up I guess ill just be in better shape from pulling a hard cable
Keenan Logging & Tree Care, LLC

Offline coxy

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2017, 07:06:14 am »
straight down from the brake cylinder on the bottom there it a cover with 2 bolts in it the big spring for the brake sets on it you flip it over to put more preload on the spring some of them plates you can get off some you cant get to and some the bolts brake off then its a PITA to drill them I have never turned the plate over for more preload I always spent 12$ on a new spring and every few years ill put a new one in there they do get week the first one I ever done was 1/8 shorter than a new spring

Offline Ed_K

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2017, 08:44:40 am »
 I've been having the same problem. Took it apart again yesterday and am convinced that the only problem is my band material is to thick  >:( .  I could get the smaller band back out and used a rasp to shave it down some but I can't get the larger band out without taking the whole clutch and main casting out. The one thing I discovered is when you do this you can get the bearing off quite easily. There's 2 threaded holes in the casting you can screw 3" bolts into and draw the casting off. There's a c clip between the bearing and casting that needs to come off first tho.
Ed K

Offline coxy

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Re: Gearmatic 19 issues
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2017, 12:59:13 pm »
I had a new set of clutch bands that I tried to put in a 19 but was to thick had them in my shop about 3-4 years and a friend needed them didn't have much money at the time so told him to take them he put them in a 119 and they worked fine and showed me  if you look at the groves that them little cams set in to adjust the clutch bands some of the bands have wider groves in the and if you have the narrow cams and a wide grove they let the clutch band cock off side ways just a little and cant get them to adjust right every thing will be good till you go to winch that's when the trouble starts