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Author Topic: Wood-Mizer LT40G18 converted to hydraulic  (Read 1837 times)

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Offline mikeoverbey

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Wood-Mizer LT40G18 converted to hydraulic
« on: July 02, 2017, 08:33:01 pm »
As I found when looking how to do this, there was very little information on how to convert the LT40 to hydraulic.  I wanted to post this so that it might help others, just like the FF members posts and photos helped me to accomplish this.  It was quite a project with little to go on, but photos.  Not even the Wood-Mizer components came with any kind of instructions, just a box of parts.

I'll try to keep this short and address any questions anyone may have on later posts.  My goal was to not make a Frankenstein project, but to keep the Wood-Mizer functionality.  It was a little more work and cost me more $, but I think it was worth it.  I strayed on the hydraulic valves, because I thought the 2 plane clamp really deserved a joystick control.  As a result, there is barely any learning curve to it, and you can use your other hand to maneuver the log turner, if required.  I also didn't like the idea of bending over to use the hydraulics, so I designed the box with lift struts so it can be operated at a comfortable level.  It's also handy for working on the fittings, will shut if something hits it, and holds itself down for transport.  The loader arms and roller toe boards are on my drawing boards right now, but at least I'm sawing again.

I ordered the 2 plane clamp and log turner from Wood-Mizer.  I was originally going to build each, but decided this was better for the end product.  Logan, the CS at WM was extremely helpful and eager to go down this road with me.  This wasn't always the case, but overall I was very impressed with WM.  WM says that many inquire but only a couple have gone through with the conversion.   I used photos and parts manuals to figure out where to place cutouts, clamps, hoses, as well as the main components.  I had to use a lot of math to figure out the 4 powered backstops, and had to move the axle 3 inches forward.

The one thing I'd like to convey to people wanting the 2 plane clamp, is to not be afraid to do it.  There are so many negative ideas on here when it comes to "welding on the frame".  I read so many, I started to wonder what I was missing.  I won't get into the specifics of the subject here, but don't be afraid to cut the frame and weld on a new piece.  Simply cut the outside first, have your 4x4x 3/16'" drilled for the clamp mount, and weld it on to hold the place.  I believe there may be more variation in the parallelism of the two guide bars than any mismatch you could achieve in the welding.  I took measurements before and after to the tenth of a degree, just to be sure.  I saw more variation along the tubes themselves than that.  Anyways, it cuts just as true as before I cut the frame. 

Overall I got a very functional hydraulic mill with upgraded components.  It took a lot of work, but was a challenging and fun project that produced a product I couldn't justify spending the money on, as a non-commercial sawyer.  Hope this can help someone as this forum helped me.  Feel free to contact me if you are working on something like this and I'll try to help as I can.

Mike








Offline MartyParsons

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Re: Wood-Mizer LT40G18 converted to hydraulic
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2017, 09:12:42 pm »
Nice Job!!
M
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Offline VictorH

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Re: Wood-Mizer LT40G18 converted to hydraulic
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2017, 11:19:52 pm »
WOW - very nice job.  I really like how you arranged the hydraulic levers.

Victor
1995 LT40H24

Offline Crossroads

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Re: Wood-Mizer LT40G18 converted to hydraulic
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2017, 11:33:54 pm »
Looks good!
2017 LT40 wide

Offline thechknhwk

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Re: Wood-Mizer LT40G18 converted to hydraulic
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2017, 12:40:20 pm »
Super nice job!  Paint looks good too.

Offline HousewrightVA

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Re: Wood-Mizer LT40G18 converted to hydraulic
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2017, 02:33:13 pm »
Mike
What are you using to power the hydraulics ?
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Offline mikeoverbey

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Re: Wood-Mizer LT40G18 converted to hydraulic
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2017, 04:04:50 pm »
Hey Bruce!

I'm using a Bucher Hydraulics Monarch 303 series pump, with the 08111 motor.  This is a Dyna-Jack unit just like WM uses, with the integrated 1 gal resevoir.  It flows near the same as the WM units.  I found this on ebay and it was used to raise and lower a road sign.  I think snow plows use these types of units also.  I can post pics if you are curious.  I put a pressure gauge right in the second 1/4"npt port and it's set at 2000 psi.  This is connected to a Wolverine MB series 6 valve assembly.  I then put the MB series joystick on it to power the 2 plane clamp.  The toe boards will have a selector valve to operate either, since I needed 7 circuits, but this was 1/2 price of what it would have cost to put on a stack valve unit.

Mike
Mike

Offline John S

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Re: Wood-Mizer LT40G18 converted to hydraulic
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2017, 07:20:14 pm »
Amazing craftsmanship!
LT40HDG28

Offline 47sawdust

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Re: Wood-Mizer LT40G18 converted to hydraulic
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2017, 03:56:37 pm »
Mike,That is excellent work.I especially like the joystick and the valve arrangement.I started adding hydraulics to my LT30 last year,toe rollers last year,log loader to be delivered soon and I'm hoping 2 plane clamp next year.Your encouragement on the 2 plane clamp makes me less anxious.
 For anyone looking for a hyd. pump,I got mine from Mason Dynamics,Inc.It is a Dyna-Jack M-3504.$408.20 delivered.Great people to deal with.
 Thanks for the post.
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

Offline mikeoverbey

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Re: Wood-Mizer LT40G18 converted to hydraulic
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2017, 09:12:08 am »
I appreciate the nice comments.  I forgot to give some background about the mill.  This is a '95 model.  After posting this, I saw D6c's post on his '87.  Wow.  For the most part the '95 had all the things present to make the upgrade somewhat smooth.  The holes are there for the positive and negative contacts that you need to power the hyd pump.  You have to drill the holes for the power strip, but that it straight forward.  The hole and fuse position is already there in the fuse box for the positive cable.  I did have to pull new larger wires for the alternator.  I had to take the control box off the pedestal and disconnect the wires.  This let me straighten the conduit and after soaping the electrical cables, they pulled through.



Keep in mind you need a larger ground and positive cable.  I was originally going to put a larger alternator on, but found that WM used a smaller case (CS 121) in lieu of the CS130 series that are more common.  I wanted to use the bracket on mine that apparently was there for the electric version.  I ended up buying the alternator from WM.  I still had to grind 1/16th off the inside of the arc to make it fit.  A 10mm pivot bolt and a pulley and a 32" belt was then needed.  I took the 2 groove pulley off and ordered a 3 groove pulley from surpluscenter.com.  The end of the crank was already tapped for a 3/8-24 fine UNF bolt, which made that easy.  I did have to slot the motor mounts 1/2" rearward to get the belts in a straight line.

That leaves the hydraulic cutouts and pulling the hoses.  I used pictures to position the holes and parts lists to determine the size of the cutouts(using the grommet sizes).  I used the plasma cutter to make nice holes, which in turned started smoldering fires of sawdust and mice nests.  This left a nice aroma in the shop :-\.  I sprayed some water in the holes to keep it from continuing to burn and roast the trailer wiring.





I bought the rubber trim from Mcmaster Carr, and the other round grommets from WM.  Those two companies I listed are your friend when doing these projects.  Surplus was great for the hydraulic fittings.  I did have a local company match their hose assy prices and I did get them made to the required length which helped tremendously. On an aside, my hose lengths all came out exactly what the WM LT40HD parts manual called for.  I used 1 wire and upgraded all to the same size used on the Super Hyd, in case I wanted to go that route down the road.  Most are 3/8" hoses in lieu of the 1/4".  My hyd box is also made to house another pump parallel to the existing one.

I used Mcmaster Carr for most of all the other parts: gas struts, tie rod ends, stainless bolts for the bunk covers etc.-I didn't like the rust left behind by the normal fasteners on the stainless bunk covers.   I had read a thread where someone was complaining because WM didn't use LH thread on one end of the tie rod, connecting the backstops.  Had they checked the price they might have found out why.  LH were considerably more.  Being that you only really need to adjust them once, guess which ones I bought?

I can post more pics if anyone is interested, but I did upload some to my gallery.  I wish I could post the video of the hyd box, but it just won't upload.  I guess you get the idea though.

Mike

Mike

Offline D6c

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Re: Wood-Mizer LT40G18 converted to hydraulic
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2017, 02:14:57 pm »
Mike,
Thanks for the details of your work.  I'm not sure if I'm going to run my hyd. hoses through the frame or just bundle them to the outside frame members.  My mill is what WM refers to as a "thin wall" mill....the main tube is only 3/16" wall and I'm a little concerned about cutting holes all down the frame.  Don't know what the newer ones are....1/4" maybe?

I'd be interested in seeing your alternator setup....If my 20 hp Onan engine won't keep up charging the battery I'll have to add an alternator too.  I think I've got one or two Delco alternators laying around that should be plenty big enough.

I'd love to have even the simple set-works on my mill but I doubt if it's practical to add one. Can you tell me what they use to sense position on a mill like yours?   I've seen a few examples of home-make set-works but I don't think I wan't to tackle that.

Offline HousewrightVA

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Re: Wood-Mizer LT40G18 converted to hydraulic
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2017, 03:09:25 pm »
Mike
 this is absolutely awesome.
I would like to see the alternator setup. That was always the problem.
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Re: Wood-Mizer LT40G18 converted to hydraulic
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2017, 06:55:57 pm »
You can buy new single wire alternators off E-bay for around $70.00.
One wire to the battery and your done.
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Offline Knute

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Re: Wood-Mizer LT40G18 converted to hydraulic
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2017, 08:34:36 pm »
Great job! I am impressed by the way you figured this all out.

Offline mikeoverbey

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Re: Wood-Mizer LT40G18 converted to hydraulic
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2017, 09:29:50 pm »
D6c,

My mill also has the 3/16 wall.  Being that the biggest hole is near the front and the beam is a constant cross section, the max bending moment is near the middle.  If it can stand that stress there, it can stand a cutout 15" from the end.  I wasn't worried about this.  The other cutouts are 2 1/4", I believe.  At these points, there is a lot of bracing in the horizontal.  Most of your load bending in the vertical is carried on the top and bottoms of the beam.  Again, because of this and the fact that other mills have all been cut this way, I wasn't worried.  I chose to run the hoses inside to keep it near WM type of fit/functionality/look.  That's just  my opinion. 

If your Onan doesn't have an alternator, there is no way it will keep up with a Dyna-Jack unit.  These things pull 200A at 2000psi, so the battery will need to be a deep cycle heavy duty and will need some serious recharging.

I'll try to get some pics of the alternator setup tomorrow.  I'm sure that any Delco type alternator would work.  One of the WM guys on here did comment that they do get their alternators modified for the heavy current loads, and because I was unsure of other sellers and the costs, I went with the WM.  The older 10si and 12si alternators don't have an internal fan that might affect the cooling.  As heat goes up, so does resistance and charging goes down, as well as lifespan.  I'm against the one wire setups of the older 10/12si.  They use residual magnetism to get a field, which takes some rpms.  The drive pulley is already small, relative to an automotive setup.  I like the way 3 wire start charging right away at idle and they do a much better job sensing the actual voltage and adjusting the output.  It's just too easy to go ahead and put a field wire/ and warning light on.   If you don't want to actually run a sense wire up to the battery, you can at least put a jumper across at the alternator.   I've changed several antique tractors over to a 3 wire setup and highly recommend not taking the easy way out.  It seems the CS series are a better choice for higher loads as seen on these electric/hydraulic setups.  I have to admit this is the first CS alternator I've installed.  It has only one wire connected to the field and warning lamp, but seems to charge at idle right after starting.  I'll try to remember the source for the 12v red warning lamp, and post it with pics tomorrow.

Mike
Mike

Offline mikeoverbey

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Re: Wood-Mizer LT40G18 converted to hydraulic
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2017, 07:20:54 pm »
Here are the alternator pics:


Here is a pic of from the tongue of the mill showing the back of the alternator, located at the left side of the engine.  I did have to move the starter solenoid because I didn't like it being that close to the case of the alternator.  A different solenoid would have worked too, or a different bracket, etc....this was the easiest.



Here it is from the front of the engine showing the 3 groove pulley from Surplus Center.  Item # 1-3BK34-E.  1" bore, 3.55 O.D. 



Another shot from the back:



I misspoke in my previous post about this CS alternator being a "1 wire".  It has a field wire from the ignition through a warning lamp.  I used a red bulb light that fit right in place of the green factory light.  It's from Digi-Key.  $3.24  Part number 1090A1-12V-ND  So it is at least set up like a 2 wire, but I imagine there is an internal jumper that senses voltage, making like a 3 wire on the older setups. 


D6C,

I don't have setworks.  I just position it close.  I can see how it would be nice, but doubt I'll go there.  I'm already a super fast sawyer ::)....I crank out around 100 bdft an hour...or less.  Mostly I stand and look at the log and try to figure out what I'm doing.  I doubt setworks can help me there.

Mike
Mike

Offline D6c

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Re: Wood-Mizer LT40G18 converted to hydraulic
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2017, 07:39:09 pm »
Thanks for the pics & part nos.....I'm surprised you found room to mount it below an inside of the engine.  I'll have to look, but I don't think I've got quite that much room on that side.

LOL, I saw like that too....I spend a lot of time looking and deciding how to make the next cut.  Hopefully I'll get better with time.

Edit:  Just occurred to me...the engine on the sawmill rotates CCW viewed from the pulley side.  At least some alternators run clockwise. (the one on my pickup does)  I'll have to be sure to get the right rotation.

Offline Chuck White

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Re: Wood-Mizer LT40G18 converted to hydraulic
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2017, 06:42:45 am »
I've heard that an alternator will work whether turning CCW or CW!

The cooling fan could make the difference!
~Chuck~
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Offline mikeoverbey

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Re: Wood-Mizer LT40G18 converted to hydraulic
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2017, 07:28:57 am »
 :o  Wow, in my haste and excitement to get the "correct" alternator on, I didn't even check the fan!  Like Chuck said, an alternator will work in either direction, because of the diode trio, but the fan is supposed to create a vacuum on the front of the alternator, actually pulling air through from the back.  Normally I'd just switch the fan out for a reverse direction, but it also has an internal fan and I'm not familiar with it to know if I can change it.  I'm going to have to do some checking.  I'm sure it still cools but not as efficient.  This is rather disappointing since I ordered it from WM and told them exactly what I was doing and which alternator I wanted.  Whatever alternator sat in that spot HAD to rotate that way because thats how the blade is set up.  Disappointing, but I guess that's what you get when you do a project like this and they can't just look at a specific mill number.

Mike
Mike

Offline D6c

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Re: Wood-Mizer LT40G18 converted to hydraulic
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2017, 10:40:13 am »
Mike,
From your pics it looks to me like you've got it going the right direction.  Your alternator fan is set up of CCW rotation.