Quite possibly, the most crooked logger ever

[Hoop]

He is now deceased, killed while riding a 4 wheeler in a drunken stupor.  His legacy lives on.

Billy Joe was from Northern Wisconsin.  His thievery took part in Wisconsin, Minnesota, and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.

He was particularly fond of the red oak forests in Western Wisconsin.  Without a doubt, he could have been a multimillionaire.....if he would have gone legit.  He couldn't help himself from stealing.

A man with a golden gift of gab.  He screwed 100's of landowners.

He once told a landowner that his stand of giant white pine (which he bought for pulp prices) needed to be harvested "before the sap ran"......whatever that means.  So good was his gift of gab that the landowner told him to start logging immediately.

His typical ploy was this.  A landowner of veneer grade red oak was given a token payment ($500 - $2000) upon signing a logging contract.  The stipulation was that all monies would be paid when ALL the logs were trucked.
Billie Joe intentional left a dozen or so cull logs on the premises.  The landowner would make repeated calls, wanting payment.  Billie Joe reminded the landowners that payment would be forthcoming when ALL the logs were trucked .....and stated his truckers were about to get fired for not hauling ALL the logs.  The stonewalling continued.
The landowners property was completely devastated and looked like a tornado went through. Generally, only the veneer, sawlogs and bolts were removed from the trees.....leaving tops 8" in diameter in a strewn mess......looking like a war zone.

He immediately cashed checks from veneer mills & sawmills.....leaving only pocket change in his checking account. Always fearful of having his monies seized, he operated almost exclusively on cash.

Eventually, the landowner would bring lawsuit against Billie Joe.  It did absolutely no good.  Nothing was in his name, but his new pickup truck, about the only thing he ever made payments on.   The landowner eventually found out you can't get blood from a turnip and joined the ranks of 100's others that had been screwed by Billie Joe.

Equipment dealers also felt the sting of Billie Joe.  He would pay the least amount of $$ possible to get a skidder out the door.  Salespeople overlooked his dismal credit when they could smell a commission.
Billie Joe never made a payment on the skidder, constantly moving it around the state....keeping it hidden from the repo man.

Billie Joe sometimes had to actually pay for the high grade wood.  He could read people like a book.  Of course, the final payment always was a rubber check.  Billie Joe couldn't sleep at night unless he screwed the landowner somehow.

There are other Billie Joe's out there.  Of course, there always will be. None will come close to his legacy of thievery & deception.

If Wisconsin ever had a "Bad Loggers" list, there would be no question as to who would top the list......Billie Joe would be there.

[Jeff]

Hoop, I gotta ask the source of this. Is this from your own writings?

It would Be interesting to know what might have prompted you to post it. We try to always keep in mind here that crooked loggers are not the norm, but the exception to the rule. It's just that the crooked one over shadows the 99 that are conscientious about their work.

[rebocardo]

Since moving to GA, I picked up a phrase they use around here "That man needed killing"  I am surprised he did himself in and not someone else.

[redpowerd]

hoop, im with jeff, how did you hear about ol billy?
are you a landowner or an equipment dealer?

this guy sounds pretty slick, how long ago was this?
there was a 'hiding' skidder on my friends land, course we didnt know it was hiding. luckily this guy was too lazy to get the wood cut.

[pasbuild]

Its not just the occasional logger, a log buyer contacted my B I L about cutting a 40 he has, this 40 had not been cut for at least three generations and was heavily wooded, against my advice he signed a contract paying him $8,000 to cut anything that would make two sticks, duration of contract 2 years.
they came in after the contract expired ( not a big deal ) and clear cut the 40 hualed out the money trees and there is still about 15 + - dlbs still sitting there after a year.
The log buyer is his cousin.  

[Phorester]

Remember pasbuild this is a worldwide forum, or at least a bunch of us from all over the USA and unfamiliar with terms outside our own region.  

What is a BIL, a 40, a dlb?

[Jeff]

I do believe its a brudder-in-law.

[pasbuild]

BIL = brother in law
40 = 40 acres
dlbs = truck and trailer load
sorry about all of the abbreviations but it takes a long time to type this stuff up with one finger.

[Texas Ranger]

Every thing posted here would not have happened if there had been a third party honest forester as the middle man, earning his percentage, but getting the landowner paid and the contract fulfilled.

[pasbuild]

The key word in your statement is honest, B-I-L cousin is a collage grad forester and knew exactly what he was doing
must have needed a little help with his payments on his new two story lake house

[Hoop]

This post was a warning to landowners that are about to have there land logged without FULLY checking out the logging contractor's background, financial data, criminal/civil court records and credit report.

Crooks like Billy Joe thrived.....because people didn't follow through before signing a contract.

And while some are of the opinion that 99% of the loggers are honest, I find the figure laughable, and am of the opinion that at most, maybe 1/2 of all logging contractors are honest. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Billy Joe operated for years with impunity, partly  because of the greed of other loggers, that would occasionally farm out a harvesting crew, haul & sell Billie Joe's wood under their contract, and quite often buy his contract (knowing full well the landowner was going to get screwed).  

Read what Game Wardens have to say about Billy Joe in this article    www.gamewarden.org/mag_billyjoe.htm   which is not logging related, but does attest to his character.


Loggers need to admit that thieves do exist within their ranks.....and insist that landowners exercise extreme caution when signing contracts.

[Tom]

I don't think you will find an arguement on this board that Thieves exist and some of them are loggers.  Every occupation has thieves. What makes it easy for landowners to get taken advantage of is the fact that even honest loggers and log buyers are operating under a different agenda.  That is why we try to impress on everyone to use a "real" Forester to manage their timber and their sale.  Some things are better taught in school and Foresters get a earful of how to raise trees, manage forests, identify diseases, write contracts and step in for the landowner in tresspassing disputes.

It's unfortunate, but, the majority of cases where a landowner was "taken", a forester wasn't present.

Now, you have to take into consideration that there might be crooked Foresters too.  But, that might be an easier thing to check than the logger.

It's a shame that the world has have "Billy Joes" in it.

[Jeff]

Loggers need to admit that thieves do exist within their ranks.....and insist that landowners exercise extreme caution when signing contracts.

They certainly do admit it and have tried to set up ways to deal with those that soil the profession.

50%  what figures would you base that on? 50% of the ones you know or have dealt with? Certainly I cannot dispute that, but 50% of the industry is just a personal slam with absolutely nothing to back it up other then ones own issues.

Timber theives, timber pimps are NOT loggers. I certainly don't lump them in.

[Scott]

 3 of 4 commercial loggers I've delt with were crooks . Hopefully this isn't the norm. 2 instances were timber theft and the other had to do with environmental issues and cutting inside bufer zones (he has been know to steal timber though). one thing i noticed though is that its usually not the guy running the saw or driving the skidder who's guilty, its the foreman or the employer whos calling the shots. I'm not saying the loggers don't know that theyre doing something wrong, but it usually isn't their idea.

[leweee]

When I read the title of this thread I figured there talken about me again   Man was I disappointed when it wasn't me

[slowzuki]

Seconding Scott, we have a high incidence of crooked loggers!  Our next door neighbour had 100 acres logged, the foreman was overheard in a local pub laughing about how little these people knew about wood prices and how he was screwing them over so badly  He wasn't long removing his skidder.  

Unfortunately he has damaged most of the residual trees as he was doing a diameter limit cutting, bee-lined to every large tree driving over the 4" and under stuff without cutting making a huge mess.  He yarded every thing into a hayfield there and left a mess.

The second logger is one who even had an small woodlot owner profile done on him in the low impact logging website (link in Sprucebunny's low impact thread) for how good he was, well, a friend of mine while working for him was instructed to drive through a beaver pond to cut some trees on the other side, well it was too deep so he told them to cut a mat and drive accross the beaver dam to get accross.  They go caught by the DNR guy and fined for driving in a waterway.  His response was to gate off his land so DNR couldn't inspect his operation without permission.

[Jeff]

In Michigan if you find any sort of improprieties in logging practices there is a 1 800 number to call to start the ball rolling on an investigation of such. You can also contact www.timbermen.org and check out references and history of logging contractors. They WILL help.

The problem lies mostly in the fact that when one has someone take them on a timber harvest, everybody hears about it. When someone has a great experience, they don't come on here or the papers or the news and praise the logger or contractor. If you guys are saying that half of the timber harvests out there are crooked, then you also have to be saying that half of all the landowners are uneducated, gullible, or just stupid.

I don't buy it. I know a lot of loggers that really care about the job they do and I know some true rats. The rats don't work much but you sure here about them all the time. The good guys work everyday all their lives and barely get a mention.

[Buzz-sawyer]

Its a bit different in Illinois where I live.
An HONEST logger gets a HUGE reputation and everybody hears about him(as being rare and useful).....almost like a legend..soon he cant be hired easily anymore due to demand for him

[Jeff]

Reputation and publicity may be two different things.  When is the last time someone  joined this forum just to post about "My succesful timber harvest"  Or, " I want to tell you about my friend the logger who does such good work"  It dont happen that way.  How many times do we get threads like this one (Note: Nothing wrong with it, it's a good story), or from desperate landowners joining, only to seek help for themselves or perhaps a friend or elderly parent? Often.  Its just the way it is. SCREAM OUCH! or silently smile in content.

[Buzz-sawyer]

This is more in response to Jeffs thoughts.........which made me think..     A dangerous thing!
I think.........
a certain portion of the "complaints" recieved does have to do with the nature of the internet.....people use it as a BLUE GENIE ....when they need help they push the keys find a relavent site and ask away.....When a job is well done people feel thier expectations were met...(a minimum expectation) and go on with thier life....Not really excited enough about it enough to tell the world..........but if someone gets hurt the net is the poor mans lawyer, friend, confidant, library, and human contact for support and vent...
Like when ya go to the auto shop and they fix your brakes you dont tell everyone about it .BUT if they fail to fix them and you have a bad wreck then you start talkin.........good service seems to be our expectation as normal ??...