Start of something big?

[Jeff]

    

From something so small?

    Well, thanks to SAWTOOTH I have a supply of Alabama Paulownia tomentosa seeds. The talk is of phenomenal growth (10 to 15ft a year??), and fantastic value of the logs. But alas, we may be to far north. Hugh say's if it'll grow here, they should be quite valuable due to the slower rate of growth and resulting tighter growth rings that will occur this far North.
http://www.pauloniatrees.org
http://www.paulownia.com/
I am going to run my experiments with growth right here for all of you to see, success or failure. Starting with a picture of the seeds. I take credit for all success, if they don't even sprout it's Hugh's fault.

This photo shows seeds at twice normal size if your resolution is 800 by 600

Tomorrow, planting and where I will be keeping the seed beds.

[Jeff]

Planted! 2/27/2001

[Jeff]

     Our home is on the south side of the road facing north, and that's where most of the windows are. Not a real good direction for sunlight. But! we have a vaulted skylight in the new part of our home and it does face south, so, thats where the paulonia seeds will start out. It should be sunny, a little more humid, and a little warmer, because of the vault. Besides that, the seeds will have all that cedar for moral support!

Sawtooth, if your looking in, how long before germination can be expected??

[Hugh Darty]

You should see results in about two weeks. Be sure and check your soil moisture every day, as your growing area appears to be warm and dry, which is what you want. You also don't want much direct sunlight, about sixty to seventy percent of normal.

After your seeds sprout they will set and not grow for two more weeks. After that they will take off! By the middle or end of April yours should be outgrowing your trays and ready to transplant. You should not place them outdoors until all danger of frost is over.

I will give planting instructions when trees are right size!

[Don P]

We have a few growing in the neighborhood but ice really seems to do a number on them, about 3000' southern VA mts. There is a beautiful plantation at the base of the mountains, piedmont NC. I'll try to get a pic next time I go down there.

[Gordon]

So let me get this straight that if the trees take off and grow great your going to take all credit for them.:)now is that fair Jeff?

So the closer growth rings could also mean a stronger tree??? Or am I in left field on that one?

One last question are the people that are growing these trees finding market for them?

Oh by the way check out my new user pic---8)
Gordon

[Jeff]

I think the other guys will have to aswer wheather the wood is stronger. From my understanding it would be at least more stable. I would think more dense would translate to more strength. I know that some of the "antique logs" that are being recovered in underwater logging in the great lakes are worth moe because of the closer growth rings then their more modern relatives. Rons?

Naw, I won't take the credit, I just want to draw attention away from me if they don't grow:

[Ron Wenrich]

Pawlonia is purely an export wood.  The Japanese use it for dowry chests and other things important to their culture.  It is a very light wood and carves very well.

Markets would be primarily with veneer and export log buyers.  There's one over around Havre de Grace, MD.

Gordon should be in a really good area to find them growing wild.  I once had a farm manager from Annapolis who said there were quite a few on the farms he managed on the Eastern shore.  

Hint:  look for purple flowers in the spring.  It also looks a lot like ailanthus.

[Jeff]

I read somewhere that the wood is valuable, but marketability is low, simply because of the small amount of trees marketable trees yet available. Does that make sense?

[Gordon]

This is a post from---Hugh Darty---that he put in my instant message box by mistake and told me to repost it on the main board, so here it is.

Hugh wrote:
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The Japanese value the close growth rings because of the softer texture, fewer defects in the wood, and scaricity of that grade of wood. The close rings also signify high price which socially is like comparing my Mercedes to your Chevy. The wider ring paulownia is available from China at a cheap price, so it is more common in the poorer peoples homes.
Japanese tradition is for the bride and groom to buy Tansu, (not sure about the spelling) which is Japanese traditional "chest of drawers" for storing silk komona's and clothes. The fewer defects in the Tansu, the fewer defects in the marriage.
Paulownia also works and mills very well. It shrinks or swells very little with changes in humidity. A good Tansu will be built so precise that a drawer will pull a vacuum when opened, and pop out other drawers almost when closed.

Large diameter tight ring logs with few or no defects are very valuable, often being auctioned off to the highest bidder. The rich family of a Japanese bride will buy such a log and have the perfect Tansu made for a wedding gift, insuring a long and happy marriage with no defects.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hugh

[Don P]

Hugh, so how old is the high value log.How many rings per inch? Ron, sounds like you have them up there. I thought you were icier than us. How are they doing it. See I have this rolling creeping kinda hole appearing in my front yard that would benefit from a competative fast growing high value tree.Pretty flowers are a plus, as the locust have stopped blooming. Told Michelle about Jeffs experiment we have a bet on. She thinks they will periodically freeze back to the surface.

[Hugh Darty]

Paulownia logs are bought and sold by grade. The best logs are "double A" grade. They must be at least 16 inchs on small end with no knots or defects. Length must at least ten feet. The other grades from worst to best are E,D,C,B, and A. Growth rings in the better grades are at least four per inch.  A "AA" log should be a minimum of sixty four years, although I have sold thirty five year old trees for "AA" when market was right. The outer four inchs of rings are the most important. Center rings can be wider if outer rings are allright.

[Hugh Darty]

Back in my paulownia cutting and buying days, I would hire a plane or helicopter to fly me around in the spring to locate trees when they were blooming. They bloom out before most trees leaf out so the purplish blooms were easy to locate.

Ron, what is the buyers name you mentioned in your post? I knew most of the paulownia buyers in the past, may be an old friend. I had another friend in Virginia who you may know, also in the sawmill buisness, Mitch Carr. He was the first to sell Paulownia to the Japs. His companys name was Augusta Lumber.

[Jeff]

<a href="http://www.timberbuyer.net/700.swf" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.timberbuyer.net/700.swf</a>
8)HEE HEE HEE!8)

[Ron Wenrich]

Don, We have scattered paulownia in the woods, very rare.  But, there are some used in landscaping.  One logger has planted a small plantation of paulownia.  It'll be interesting to see how things go.  

64 years for logs would yield a 16" log at 4 rings/inch.  That is too long for most people to speculate on a market that may evaporate before maturity.  If the Japanese don't buy, then there is a very limited market.  Now chestnut is a different story.

Hugh, I don't recall their name, but I don't think it is Augusta.  There is a German concern there that pays some pretty good prices for good veneer.  

There was also a guy in Rising Sun, MD.  He had a log yard in PA, close to the MD line.  I drove past and saw paulownia that had a bee's nest in it.  They were buying everything.  Markets have changed since then.  I believe his name was Greer.

We had some last year.  I can't tell you where they went, but they were sold.  I'll have to check.

[Hugh Darty]

I screwed up on the 64 years necessary for the best grade. It should be 32 years since you count rings on the outside of the heart, thus counting only eight inchs of wood on each side.

[L. Wakefield]

   So a lot of people are reporting this as a naturalized tree- I don't know where everyone lives. Do we now have a sense of its northern extent? Jeff, I thought you were in Michigan. I am wondering if it grows in WV. I am sure from the pix on that German website that I have not seen it before. It sounds like very good bee fodder. A useful tree to have around. If it's good wood, the market may not be here for the big bucks NOW, but good is good. Plant em. People will figure it out.

                LW

[Jeff]

I do live In Michigan! Northern lower. Look at your map. Hold up your right hand, palm facing you, I live at the base of your middle finger, right next to the edge of your ring finger.

L. check out the links I listed in the first post of this thread.

http://www.pauloniatrees.org

http://www.paulownia.com

[L. Wakefield]

Yes, I already checked them out. Hey, did you know there was a stuck flag on the board? I can't remember which heading. One of the early ones, logging or education. It's been stuck for a few days. BTW, this is such an excellent website. You all just keep making it better.  LW

[Jeff]

I don't have a stuck flag, Are you using your back button on your browser? That will make the flags appear to be stuck. Let me know where it is if you see it again.

Thanks L. It's turning into what it is with the help of all of you. Now if I could get somebody with some money to notice and help me pay for my band width...