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Author Topic: Gotta Have Some Idears  (Read 2390 times)

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Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Gotta Have Some Idears
« on: November 07, 2004, 08:31:57 am »
  I have someone that wants us to make wooden boxes (small) with curved lids. The inside of the top needs to be curved, to somewhat match the top. The lid will sit on all 4 sides of the box. The lid will be over 1" high. There are 3 sizes of boxes  ::) ::)

 We set up a jig on the tablesaw, but, it didn't work out to be very efficient. When the blade is raised to produce a deeper curved cut, the blade moves off center and the jig needs adjusting.

 Any woodworkers here with some "inside" info ???
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Offline ohsoloco

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2004, 09:08:29 am »
Harold, is it to be curved on one plane (like turning up the sides of a rectangle), or will it be curved "all around" like a dish.  Round, oval, or rectangular box  ???
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Offline Tom

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2004, 10:29:11 am »
Cut some thin boards, boil them in hot water and bend them around a form that is the proper size for the box.  When they dry, they will be curved. ;D ::)

There are techniques using a shop band-saw that produces bandsaw boxes of all different shapes.  You cut and glue with such a fine line that you can't see the glue joint.  It is a real art and there are lots of books on it. :P

Charlie turns round boxes with round tops that are curved. :D

I know what you are doing with the table saw and that should work if you don't take too big of a bite at a time. For goodness sakes watch your fingers.  You could lose a hand and not even know it till it's gone.  :)
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Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2004, 10:47:49 am »
  These will become "treasure chests". The top is curved the ends are straight.

 Table saw won't allow enough diversity, unless I make something "homemade" and use 3 sizes of sawblades ???
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All truth passes through three stages:
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   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline Bruce_A

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2004, 11:15:21 am »
slab wood anyone.
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Offline fstedy

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2004, 11:28:07 am »

If you need a solid piece of wood you could try to make 2 curved pieces that match the box curve with a cross piece that is moveable over the curves. Slot this piece so you could use a router to shape it. It will involve some trial  ???  and  :-X  error but it should do what you want. Works similar to a duplicator only its a simple fixture ::)  ::) ::)
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Offline pappy

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2004, 11:54:40 am »
planer with a log cabin knife? and if it has to be curved inside as well have a concaved knife made and plane that side (concaved) first.
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Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2004, 12:49:17 pm »
  What about the ends ???????  I don't wanna hafta put ends in them, just carve them out.  The outside is EZ, it's the inside that's the killer ???
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All truth passes through three stages:
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   Second, it is violently opposed; and
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-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline Tom

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2004, 01:02:25 pm »
Unless you get out a carving knife, I think you're going to have to put ends in them. :)

If the ends can be straight, they shouldn't be too much trouble.  Especially if you have a bandsaw or jig saw.

How big are these boxes supposed to be?
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Offline Furby

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2004, 01:16:03 pm »
Harold,
The tablesaw trick is a No,No! My Grandpa got his thumb doing that.
I have a box around here someplace that my Grandpa made. Don't remember if the inside is curved or not, but kinda looks like a treasure chest. I'll get a pic as soon as it's found!

In order to curve the inside of the top without putting ends on, use a router with a swinging jig. Pretty close to what Fstedy said.
Either swing the router or the block of wood in a jig.
I'm SURE you can make something like this work!
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Offline Kevin

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2004, 01:47:05 pm »
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Offline oldsaw

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If you have a radial arm saw,
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2004, 01:55:29 pm »
you can cut kerfs into the back of the top to allow it to curve, then resaw a piece of the same wood to veneer over it, using the side pieces as forms.  You could veneer the side panels as well making it look like one solid piece.

Otherwise, you are gonna have to some fancy router stuff.

As an old time carpenter once told me, "It's not that we old timers don't make mistakes, we just hide them better."

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Offline EZ

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2004, 03:09:22 pm »
I made a lid like that with my drum sander. Just clamp it in and lower the drum.
EZ
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Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2004, 03:35:09 pm »
  Drum's too long ???

 Good links Kevin. ;D
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All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline Kevin

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2004, 04:08:20 pm »
There's this tool  ...
http://www.kingarthurstools.com/

but you would need to design something to hold it and adjust the depth.

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Offline iain

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2004, 11:22:49 pm »
harold     describe what you want to end up with    use lots of big words if you need to


are you making from planks, carving out from one lump of wood


 i make a good number of treasure box's from small jewel to 5' long 3' high job's


    iain
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Offline Arthur

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2004, 12:50:23 am »
you could use a dado without using the saw blades on each side.  Just the dado rippers.

you would need a stop each side to prevent the wood from moving as well as clamping down for safety.  This would enable you to cut one dado and then move the wood sideways ripping out the inside of the box lid.
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Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2004, 03:33:01 am »
  Arthur, that's what we did, only, used the single blade. When the blade is raised for each depth, it moves and the jig has to be moved.  Iain, you have the idea. What do you do ??? The longest box, for now, is 14" X 9½" wide.
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All truth passes through three stages:
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   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline iain

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2004, 08:47:46 am »
try this if'n you got a wksp band saw 1/4" band fine as you can get 4-6 tpi will do

i use branch wood that i split down the middle and CHUCK
in the kiln on top of a strapped down load to the sides of the fans the wilder the grain the better ash is very good for this as is yew choose bits with lots and lots of interest you want 12" finished start with 13-14 blocks

flatten the base and shape the top to what you want
cut the ends of wavey (a vague "s" shape) and keep the bits
stand on end and cut the lid of
take one more slice from each end 1/8" will do follow the outside line up on end take the meat out of the body to form a hollow

reassemble to see what you got

clean up and glue the first ends back on glue in the second slices then cut the flat ends to a nice wavey line

its easyer to do than write it out takes me about 45secs to cut out 4mins to reglue with 5min poly 15 mins to sand and clean oil and wax there worth about $25 for small ones up to $150 for bigger ones 12" long high as you like i dont sell them just make em in batch's and they go as prezzies
got to pick up linda then fold up the saw will try to got pics tonight and write up long ones


iain



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Offline beenthere

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2004, 11:51:11 am »
iain
I hope you don't receive this wrong, but I've a question. :)

What ever happened to CAPITAL letters to begin a sentence, and a period (.) to end a sentence?   ??? ::)

Very hard to read what is written without the 'markers' to let me know when one thought begins and ends, and another takes over.

Maybe there is a good reason.  Am sure you have lots of ideas I miss because I am lost in a steady stream of 'words'.

Just curious here.   ;D
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Offline fstedy

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2004, 12:38:17 pm »
 8) For some unknown reason when the internet was started capital letters were not used. When they were it was considered yelling so I have been told .

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Offline iain

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2004, 02:50:09 pm »
 ::)

Dear Harold

Try this if you have a workshop band saw.
Use the thinnest quarter inch band blade that you can find, between 4 and 6 teeth per inch will be fine.

I prefer to use branch wood taken from senior trees that are having their crowns reduced, this utilises what would normally be a waste product and a major plus is that the wood tends to be old and knarled.  
I split the branches in two lengthways sometimes down the middle, sometimes off centre whilst trying to keep them as long as possible. They are then loaded into the kiln utilising the air space on the top of a strapped down load and to the sides of the fans.
The wilder the grain the better e.g. bends, snapped off dead branches that are being overgrown, crotch wood, warts and burrs are superb. Old Ash is very good for this, as is Yew.
If you want to end up with a finished box 12" long, begin with a 13-14" blank.  
Start by flatting the base on the jointer or by hand, then to the band saw, flip the blank on its end and start shaping the outside of the top using the bark line as a guide.  Making sure you stray over and under the line as you cut.
Lay it down on the flatted base and cut both ends off to about the finished size, I tend to use a vaguely 'S' shape cut, utilising anything of interest I find in the grain.  
Flip it up on its end again and cut off the lid approximately 1/4" from the outside edge, then back on to the flatted base and take another cut from each end, about 1/8" thick will be sufficient.
Back on to its edge and cut out a deep 'U' shape to form the hollow body of the box, the 'U' shape needs to funnel from what will be your front edge, down into the 'U', up the back and funnel out to the back, in a nice organic, smooth, flowing single cut.

Now, reassemble everything you have cut, so it forms the complete blank again.  
If you like the look of what you see, then take the trouble to sand the bandsaw marks off the lid, with a light sand along the two end grains at this point, stay away from the back and front edge of the lid.  
Glue the two big ends back on to the body (I use 5 minute poly glue or superglue).  
Clean up the inside, leaving the bandsaw marks in the 'U' shaped body. Clean the saw marks off the inside faces of the two thin 1/8" pieces and glue them into their respective  places inside the body.  Taking the trouble to ensure that everything lines up perfectly.
Clean up the body, check the lid for fit (it will be supported by the 1/8 pieces), adjust as necessary, clean up all around.
Oil and wax.
You can either hinge the lid or leave it as a lift off.
 
It's far easier to make a box than it is to write out the instructions.  It takes me about 45 seconds to cut out, 4 minutes to reglue with poly and a set of 'quicke' clamps, 15 minutes to sand and clean, oil and wax.
The boxes are then worth about $25 for small ones (4 to 7 inches long) and up to $150 for bigger ones (12 inches long).
But I don't sell them, these are the amounts people have offered to buy them for.  To date I have made about 45, they are given away as presents and are in great demand.

Yours Sincerely

Mr. James Iain Swanson
Furniture Maker
Derby   ;D




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Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2004, 03:03:47 pm »
 :o :o :o :o  Iain, Thanks. Got Pics. :o :o :o ::) ::) ;D ;D :D :D

 My bandsaw only raises to 7" ::) ::)
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All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline beenthere

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2004, 03:07:14 pm »
Fantastic!  Thanks very much. For this 'bubblehead', that was VERY clear (to me) and I enjoyed hearing about the extra care and work that goes into each 'box'.  :)
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Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2004, 03:13:45 pm »
  Oh YEAH ???  well, uhh,  OH YEAH ??????
 Ya surmisin I'm iggurant, there, Beenthere??? :D :D :D :D :D

 I gotta re-read that post about 10 times, but, I WILL get it  ;) ;D ;D ;D
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All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline sawdust

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2004, 03:18:15 pm »


A log builder buddy of mine built a chest and simply brushed the inside of the lid with his chainsaw. Same idea as creating a scribed notch.
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Offline Bruce_A

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2004, 07:38:34 pm »
I love when someone else sees something my way.  This forum allows me to skip the anger and anything else that I am unable to understand by scrolling away.  I always check to see where any poor skills are coming from and wonder what the history is behind them.  I am always serious first and facitious after the fact.  Unless I get the chance to do it the other way around.  I would sure like to see some pictures of chests completed [treasure chests].  I even got a camera today to see if I can figure how to get a picture on here.
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Offline beenthere

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2004, 09:54:29 pm »
Fla_Deadheader
I've been on the forum for a while now, and you are far from ""iggurant "", and I've come to lookin for your ideas and ways of crankin things out whenever you post.  With the idears you are getting on this project, I'm anxious to learn what you will put together from it all.  :)  (as well I like reading of the different ways others suggest along with the precautions safety-wise).  

I'm also anxious to see some pics too, especially of iain's projects (I thought he penned that 'letter' to you pretty formal-like  ;D, and I think I caught a mental glimps of his toungue sticking out at me   ;D , which I probably deserved).
;)  I hope for no hard feelings, but let me have it if there are any.  :)
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Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2004, 03:08:53 am »
  Naaahhhhhhh, no hard feelings.  ;D :D

 Just can't stand it when someone picks up on an explanation, right off, and I gotta have pics to SEE what's being described. ::) ::)

 Guess that's why I'm a loner when it comes to figuring out stuff  ::) ;D ;D :D :D :D
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All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline D._Frederick

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2004, 01:05:15 pm »
Fla._,

I read the post from "iain" thru about 3 times, the way I interpret his process is: he cuts the ends square and then cuts them off, then uses the bandsaw to shape the inside of the box and then glues the ends back on.

If your bandsaw is like the 14 inch Delta, you could make a "riser block" to increase the depth of cut.

How many boxes do you plan on making?
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Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2004, 01:29:39 pm »
  Hi "D". The guy has trouble getting enough.  More orders than suppliers.

 The poor old Bandsaw has already had more mods than a partly wrecked vehicle. ::) ::) ;D
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All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline breederman

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2004, 03:34:32 pm »
Harold,
 You got pics? What about the rest of us?
  Sounds like iains are"rustic" I tried it with a couple hunks of 2x4 just cut the outside shape of the top on the band saw,cut off the ends then cut the inside shape off the top and put the ends back on. Did the box the same way,cut off the ends,stood it on end,cut out the box and ut the ends back on.You could use a4x4 for the bottom to make a deeper box.Problem is my guides only go up about 5 3/4 inches so makes for a short box!
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Offline iain

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Re:  Gotta Have Some Idears
« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2004, 11:04:22 pm »
didnt retype nothing just dictated it to linda as she dont even look at what shes typing and can type faster than i can dictate
the boxs can look rustic or posh depending on the time and care you put into them and the reason you leave the ends square is to make reglueing easy i'll try to get pics today some time (this makes four lots of pics i owe the forum) beenthere look no caps or full stops and heres your tongue :P :D :D


  iain
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